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Apple's service program for butterfly keyboard MacBooks, even out of warranty

212 points by green-eclipse 7y ago

green-eclipse 7y ago
To be clear, according to Apple, these keyboard repairs are free.
- cstuder 7y ago
  Plus if you paid in the past, you can ask Apple for a refund.
- ramijames 7y ago
  My time isn't free. The fact that I have to deal with this at all makes me never want to buy another Mac and I have been a heavy user for at least 20 years. Super annoyed.
  - cced 7y ago
    This. I have 7 distinct repairs so far. Every one of these involves a back up, checking in at the Apple Store, explaining what the issue is, having the staff run “diagnostics” only to find nothing wrong with the computer, my having to tell them that this has become routine and that I want them to take my computer in for repairs, having them call me back a few days later with a repaired computer, retrieving the computer, reinstalling the image. I just want my money back.
    - iamnotacrook 7y ago
      It sounds like the "diagnostics" are faulty. If they ended up fixing your problems (as suggested by your "distinct repairs" comments, so they can't have just sat on the device for a phone days then said "yep, we fixed it") then it sounds like they do further tests once they've accepted it for repair, and where those tests highlight a genuine problem, in which case they should probably do those tests initially instead, or at least not make you have to argue with someone at the store when you've already had to stop work, get it to the store etc.
      - delfinom 7y ago
        The goal of their diagnostics is to a.) upsell/make you pay up for "repairs" you may or may not need b.) avoid doing work under warranty Same shit for car dealers and other places involving consumer goods. This all driven by corporate setting quotas for employees to meet (knowing full well they can't be met unless certain non-spoken shortcuts are taken...).
        dpkonofa 7y ago
        No it's not. The diagnostics are just basic, front-level diagnostics that they do for all machines to check off a few boxes. It's unfortunate when you're in the small percentage of people that have an uncommon problem but their current diagnostic system lets them accommodate and repair 99% of the issues people come in for quickly with 1st tier repair staff. It's not ideal but they're not trying to screw you over. Apple has some of the best and most highly rated support in the industry.
      - FireBeyond 7y ago
        I had a 2015(?) MBP with GPU issues, as (eventually) documented by Apple. On their support page they describe the error you might see in the console logs. There it was. It passed Diagnostics with flying colors. So I showed the tech that I was able to reproducibly hard crash the laptop by playing a video on the Apple site in Safari, and after the force restart the same error would appear. They still were "reluctant" to fix it under that program (though they eventually did).
    - davemp 7y ago
      I had my display start to go and I just called support instead of going into a store. The rep just next-day’d me a box with shipping label and I got it back in a few days. All you have to do is convince the support rep that you know what you’re talking about.
  - mikaelsouza 7y ago
    It is even worse when there are no Apple Store nerby, only Apple certified resellers, which is my case. The last time I had a problem with my MBP's screen, it took almost a month to be fixed. A failing keyboard is enough reason for me to wait for a version which they fix all these issues. Even if it only breaks for a "small percentage of users", it wouldn't be nice to wait almost a month without my work machine...
    - bradknowles 7y ago
      It depends on your reseller. Here in Austin, we have Austin MacWorks (see https://austinmacworks.com/ https://austinmacworks.com/). Apple actually sends them hardware to be repaired that is so old that they can't fix it themselves, because they don't have the necessary spare parts and experienced technicians on staff. Both of their hardware technicians have over 30 years of experience repairing stuff, and have every single certification that Apple has. For everything Austin MacWorks can't fix in-house, they are very good about getting that stuff out to depot and getting it back ASAP, and they will do your backups and restores for you, if necessary. If I have a simple problem, I'm happy taking that to the Apple Genius bar directly. For everything else, I don't trust anyone but Austin MacWorks.
  - 8draco8 7y ago
    Companies like Dell and Lenovo just ships fault element if it's possible to replace it yourself and in many cases it is possible to replace keyboard without to much hustle. Not to mention their on premise warranty which usually cost somewhere around AppleCare plan. If I am working on a hardware, 9 hours a day 5,6 or even 7 days a week I don't have time to sit in Apple store for hours. Even worst, in country where I am currently there is no Apple stores, period and that's in the middle of Europe not some remote island somewhere on Pacific. Here there are only third party services accredited by Apple to do fixed and they always say "14 working days for fix" which is unacceptable.
    - t3rabytes 7y ago
      They do that if you paid for the premium warranty options, it's not included by default -- it's typically depot service for everything by default.
      - 8draco8 7y ago
        Yeah and premium warranty option from Apple aka AppleCare doesn't change anything apart from longer support and some discounts on parts. Time of service stays the same. For the cost comparable to AppleCare I can have premium service package from Lenovo with on premise service.
      - jasonlotito 7y ago
        I paid for premium service from Dell (Alienware actually, but they were owned by Dell by then), which was around the same price as AppleCare. Someone came out to my house the next day and fixed the computer on the spot, replacing a part. This was for a part that failed because I was stupid and didn't have the computer plugged into a surge protector. After that, setting up an appointment, going to an Apple Store, waiting in the sea of people, and having to send in my computer, only to have to come back to the store later isn't exceptional in the slightest.
    - spronkey 7y ago
      Both Dell and Lenovo are getting worse when it comes to easy repair though. Newer Thinkpads have been nightmareish for keyboard replacements.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - green-eclipse 7y ago
    Totally fair point. It is a hassle and a regrettable that the keyboards have this problem. It's a design flaw. But at least they are doing the right thing. Hopefully the new keyboard design fixes the flaws.
quxbar 7y ago
I'm quite glad I've held onto my mid-2012 15 inch mbp all these years. I had the latest 2019 model for a job and it was a distinct downgrade. The 2012 model isn't much heavier or slower, has all the ports I need, and they keyboard feels relatively solid. I hope Apple will come to their senses and pull an iPhone SE, releasing the design from 2012 with updated internals. FaceID would make it perfect.
- igotsideas 7y ago
  Yes! I have a 2011 MBP that is going strong. I never had a problem with it. My 2018 MBP from work has been switched out twice because of the keyboard and the screen just going dead.
jacknews 7y ago
Add to that, that the keycaps break. They have teeny-tiny clips on the top edge, which just break after a while, and they just lift off, sticking to your finger, or just shift slightly, enough not to 'click' when you press them. I'm not a particularly heavy typist (though it sounds like it on the butterfly keyboard, compared to my previous 2013 macbbok pro), but I've now had about 8 keycaps replaced in the lasst year. edit: OK I was going to edit out the multiple-letters, but not this time, as this is actually quite typical of typing on this 2016 mbp, so illustrates the problem.
- dsego 7y ago
  This happens to me as well. In time those keycaps become loose and start falling out. And it's way to easy to snap them off when replacing.
- dillondoyle 7y ago
  My A S and C keys letters are totally warn out and white and the light shines through a good part. I get a new laptop each year (pass old down through business) and this degradation happens pretty quick. must be oil from fingers. though I like to think I'm pretty clean and my laptop is too..
- unicornfinder 7y ago
  Yup I had this. At first I was able to fix it by bending the clips back but eventually they just kept popping off. Took it to Apple and they replaced the top case but it took about a week and considering it's the machine I use to do work, it was frustrating. I remember them saying to me something along the lines of, "is now an okay time to leave it with us?" and just sort of saying "well it's not like a better time is going to pop up" heh.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  If I turn my macbook upside-down, 8 key caps will fall onto the floor. It’s comically bad. Had the whole keyboard replaced a year ago for the same problem.
- cletus 7y ago
  Serious question: how much force do you type with? The reason I ask is that I see many, many people stab laptop keyboards with a ridiculous amount of force. It actually bothers me like someone is banging on my skull, particularly for the bad keyboards you have (which includes the latest MBP). I learned to touch type in high school. At first, believe it or not, it was with manual typewriters. These actually require a lot of force, so much so that once you go to a computer keyboard (or even an electronic typewriter) there's really no going back. Low-profile keyboards (including laptops) need the lightest amount of touch to register a tap. Low profile also needs very little travel. At my best I could probably type at 70+ wpm. I haven't measured in awhile but it's probably worse (with sufficient accuracy). Coding uses a lot of symbols that a QWERTY keyboard just isn't optimized for (and typing speed doesn't tend to be the limiting factor anyway). In years and years of coding and typing on computer keyboards I've had almost zero problems with RSI or carpal tunnel or any of that. When I was typing much more (vs coding) with standard keyboards, I actually did get a little sensitivity/soreness along my ulna and the outer edge of my hand (going up to my pinky finger). It had the feeling of being inflamed (in that something cold on it relieved it). But after decades of typing that's it. And I haven't had that in years. That's pretty good. Anyway, bringing this back around... I wonder how many keyboard reliability and RSI issues can be attributed to essentially "bad" typing habits like too much force.
iends 7y ago
I’m not sure I have an issue, because I always use an external keyboard. Will Apple still fix my keyboard, or does it have to exhibit some issue?
vuln 7y ago
Ugh. I really want to upgrade my 2014 mba. Four gigs of ram doesn’t cut it anymore and my eyes have grown tired of the screen. I love the size, battery life, I just don’t know what to get next.
- milquetoastaf 7y ago
  2017 Macbook Air models are great, last gen before butterfly keys
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  There are a lot of refurb 2015 MBP's on the market since many people upgraded to newer machines. They're the last run before the butterfly keyboard, you can find up to 16GB memory and 512GB storage—some of them with dedicated video as well (if the 15" size is what you're after). And substantially cheaper than new models. Mind you I think this is t he run with the battery issue.....
  - breck 7y ago
    I didn’t know there were 16GB options. I thought I got the best last generation MBA at 8gb and 512. It’s my primary machine and I still love it.
    - Fnoord 7y ago
      I have a MBP 13" 2015 with 16 GB RAM and a MBP 15" 2015 with 16 GB RAM. The 13" was actually bought in begin of 2017.
      - breck 7y ago
        Ah, as I wrote in the other comment it must have been my mistake, not checking the actual store and just going straight to the refurb store.
    - tdurden 7y ago
      My mid 2014 15" MBP came with 16GB
rogerhoward 7y ago
After months of suffering with this, with an out warranty 15" MBP 2016 that was relegated to desk duty with an external keyboard, I heard about this program. I made an Apple Store appointment for the next day (a Tuesday); they checked it, warned me it could be a week or more because of a holiday that week. Thursday morning I had a call that it was ready. Total cost: $0 (according to the invoice the parts were over $800, including a mainboard replacement to fix a loose USB-C port). It was a basically new machine when I got it back. I'm still sore over this kbd design, but its otherwise been a good laptop and their no-questions-asked handling of it was great.
- mtrpcic 7y ago
  I had a similar experience. Struggled with several keys either "not pressing" or "double pressing". After a while I took it in, they gave me an estimate of 5 days for repair, and called me after 4. No charge, no fee, no questions. Once I got used to the butterfly keys I didn't mind the low travel distance, and now that my keyboard is in proper working order, I have no issues with it. Still wish there was an escape key though...
  - Jakob 7y ago
    You can set caps lock as escape key in System Preferences since one of the last OS versions. For me this works even better than the original escape key position since it’s on the home row.
    - pault 7y ago
      I don't know if it's possible with third party software (I use a hardware programmable keyboard running QMK), but I map it to tap for escape, hold for ctrl. If you use vim keybindings for your editor it's glorious.
      - ashton314 7y ago
        That’s what I’ve been doing too! I’m an Emacs user, and this setup has been glorious. I actually use an external keyboard, and I still use this setup. I’ve been using Karabiner to remap: https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/index.html https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/index.html
tomduncalf 7y ago
Why is this being reposted? Has something changed recently or is it the same as before? I'd like them to extend it beyond four years to be honest, would go some way towards making up for this sh design
- savoytruffle 7y ago
  It keeps expanding to more and older MacBooks
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
stunt 7y ago
Ok! this is least they could do, and it's something that I'd appreciate and expect from a company like Apple. Finally! They could really recognize this problem earlier.
02thoeva 7y ago
Dropped mine in earlier this week at a London Store. Currently a 7-10 day turnaround for repairs.
jasonsync 7y ago
My report: I just got a new MacBook Air a few weeks ago, to replace an aging MacBook Air. Retina display is a huge upgrade, and USB C is great (I don't miss the mag safe charger as much as I thought I would). The keyboard though ... Week 1: For the first week the keyboard was great (although more clacky sounding than the older model). Week 2: The R key started misfiring. Press the R key 10 times, you only get 8 Rs on screen. Week 3: I was about to bring it in to get replaced, but then the R key started working again. Great that Apple has acknowledged the issue, and as soon as the R key misbehaves again, I will be bringing my MacBook Air in for repair. The misfiring, along with the clacking noise makes the overall experience of the newer keyboard feel "cheaper" than it's predecessors.
- mrmuagi 7y ago
  If I was in your boots, I would be quite upset. I can deal with some minor hiccups here and there, but the R key is quite crucial. I would weigh trying to do a repair anyway just to guard against against a probable future occurrence...
- aiddun 7y ago
  I recently got a new MBP as a graduation gift and had the same experience with you. Everything was going great until about a month in when the space bar started randomly double pressing, sometimes putting periods mid sentence. It's in the shop now. Coming from using an already pre-owned Thinkpad Yoga for many years with a perfect keyboard, this is crazy for a product like this.
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 7y ago
  I’ve had many of these machines. It’s very likely only a matter of time before that R key gives you trouble again, or one of the surrounding ones.
BitwiseFool 7y ago
I'll be holding on to my 2012 MacBook Pro until they switch to a different kind of keyboard. If they don't, then I'm getting a Surface instead.
- pault 7y ago
  If you don't care about the default telemetry and ads, switch to Windows 10 with WSL. I was a die hard Mac user for a decade and since switching I haven't looked back. Windows is a different beast than it was 10 years ago, and having the whole ecosystem of hardware and software at your disposal is fantastic.
  - nsriv 7y ago
    I blocked telemetry through hosts file blocking as detailed here, might be helpful to some. https://www.thurrott.com/forums/microsoft/windows/thread/disabling-windows-10-telemetry https://www.thurrott.com/forums/microsoft/windows/thread/dis...
  - hiram112 7y ago
    I still am trying to figure out what WSL has solved for anyone. It works fine for the little tutorials they use to showcase it, but on any real project it is just as bad as what many of us have had to do for the last 10 years if we were stuck with Windows: use a VM with all the problems it brings like using extra CPU and memory, poor filesystem performance, duplicating tools and configs in both the Windows and Linux environments, etc.
    - pault 7y ago
      I'm not sure what your threshold is for a real project, but I've been using it for multi-stack dev environments with no trouble at all for the past year. You shouldn't use it to host a production environment, but I'm not sure why you would want to. What it solves is you don't have to use the minority, poorly supported windows ports of your language runtime, if it even has one. Many smaller languages I've tried don't support windows at all, and many NPM libraries have terrible bugs in windows (hard coding posix paths/environment variables, etc). WSL allows you to skip all of that trouble and use windows without changing any of your workflows or having to learn a totally new shell. The upcoming 2.0 release should be even better.
skue 7y ago
On a related note, has anyone else had issues with the iPad Smart Keyboard after 15+ months? Bought mine for the 10.5 iPad Pro and at some point I started getting Accessory Not Recognized messages, then it would stop working unless I removed and reattached it, then it finally died entirely. There are reports of similar experiences in the Apple Support Communities and on Reddit, and Apple reportedly created a program to replace some of the keyboards [1]. But when I contacted Apple I was told my keyboard was out of warranty — effectively $180 of electronic waste after just over one year of use. [1] https://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/17/05/08/apple-offers-free-ipad-pro-smart-keyboard-repairs-in-wake-of-functional-issues https://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/17/05/08/apple-offe...
- derefr 7y ago
  Sounds like the trouble with old NES cartridges: corroded contacts. (They sometimes started working when you reseated them enough times, because moving them in and out of the connector was scraping off a little bit of the corrosion.) If that’s the problem, the real solution should be the same: cleaning the keyboard’s contact pads (and maybe the iPad’s contact pads as well) with a q-tip and a bit of isopropyl alcohol.
- ericpauley 7y ago
  Try taking a pencil eraser (preferably the white high polymer type) and cleaning off the contacts on the back of your iPad. Worked wonders for mine.
- chendragon 7y ago
  My iPad Pro 12.9 smart keyboard also failed in this way. Fortunately the Apple store replaced it for free (Vancouver BC Canada) saying there was a quality program about these keyboards. Apparently it is not the connector, but the flex cable that connects the iPad that fails.
- msisk6 7y ago
  I have the previous gen 12.9" iPad Pro and my keyboard has just started giving me the not recognized messages and occasionally not working. It hasn't died completely yet but I'm giving it to my son and he'll mostly just use the pencil doing art stuff so it's not that big a deal personally. Still, it's sad to see so much Apple tech being life-limited due to aging batteries or what not.
arvinsim 7y ago
Dang, I bought AppleCare just for this issue. But then again, the peace of mind I get for the next few years is probably worth it.
pooya13 7y ago
This was the case with my 2015 MacBook a couple of years ago. The “geniuses” were refusing to fix the keyboard free of charge until they realized I was aware of the law suite and their attitude suddenly changed to “we will fix it for free because we have a great customer support”. I garantee there are people who didn’t know better and paid for it. And I highly doubt that “it’s a small percentage of the customers” affected as that page claims.
- bradknowles 7y ago
  When you have millions of customers, even a "small percentage" is still a pretty large number.
- ericmcer 7y ago
  I don't understand why the workers would do that. There is no incentive for them to get you to pay for it. I worked retail for 8ish years and I was usually as good to the customer as my company would allow. It would be bizarre for me to try to hoodwink a customer out of a free repair I am authorized to provide, because I felt some bizarre loyalty to my corporation.
  - pooya13 7y ago
    I suspect that it was because at that stage Apple was still in denial about the issue.
panzagl 7y ago
My daughter wants a Macbook when she leaves for college next month- no Apple store within a 8-hour drive. Does anyone have experience getting this type of stuff fixed through whatever arrangement Apple has with a typical University? Is Applecare an absolute requirement in this type of situation?
- jonplackett 7y ago
  If you can wait until September that’s the month some people predict there will be a new MacBook Air with a new type of keyboard that goes back to the original design.
  - dpkonofa 7y ago
    Don't make recommendations based on predictions. That's a terrible reason to wait for a necessary purchase.
    - OrangeMango 7y ago
      But they do offer a small education discount ($50 or so on the cheaper hardware) and almost always have a "Back to School" promotion in which they also throw in some sort of accessory for free. For the last two years (at least), the "Back to School" promotion launched in the middle of July and offered a free set of Beats headphones, which had a retail price of $200-300.
      - dpkonofa 7y ago
        Sure, and that's a valid reason to wait. Waiting on rumor and conjecture, though, is almost always a bad idea.
    - bradknowles 7y ago
      Yup. Most predictions in this business don't hold a lot of water, especially when it comes to anything that Apple hasn't already publicly committed to and just hasn't announced a shipping date.
rgovostes 7y ago
I have two generations of the butterfly keyboard and I can say that the version with a silicone membrane is vastly superior. The keys feel much better, they rattle less for virtually silent typing. iFixit found that the membrane also made a big difference in terms of limiting the impact of dust: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/19/17592138/ifixit-apple-macbook-pro-keyboard-anti-dust-membrane-update-teardown https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/19/17592138/i... I have sent two of the pre-membrane keyboards in for repair, but haven't had an issue with this new one. I haven't tried the one or two revisions since the membrane has been added, which are reported to be better still.
- nwienert 7y ago
  My silicone membrane keyboard has broken twice already in 6 months.
- whalesalad 7y ago
  This is good to hear. I resisted for a long time then finally upgraded at the end of last year to a 2018 15" MBP. I happen to really enjoy the keyboard.. I'm glad I missed out on the previous revision.
- gorbypark 7y ago
  I have a 2016 13" MBP which I believe does not have the membrane. Any idea if they'd replace it with a membrane version of the keyboard or if they would just put in the exact same one as before?
  - rgovostes 7y ago
    Unfortunately, I can say with near certainty they would not put a newer keyboard in an older machine.
- robbyt 7y ago
  Are they replacing the old keyboards with new ones?
luckydata 7y ago
I'm a little surprised anyone is surprised by this story. Apple has a long history of making questionable engineering decisions that end making their products nigh unusable and then steadfastly refusing to acknowledge the issue until evidence becomes too hard to deny. It happened with the iMacs multiple times, with the phones multiple times, with the MacBooks multiple times... By now we should know and not give them the unreasonable amount of credit we, but I should really say the tech press, gives them.
- scarface74 7y ago
  The “tech press” - even the Apple press were complaining about the quality of the keyboards from day one. In John Gruber’s initial review when they first came out he said he didn’t like them as did Marco Arment. They are two of the most well known Apple pundits. At least Marco slso complained about the iMac monitors before he got the iMac Pro. Gruber doesn’t upgrade his computers as often as Marco but he does usually get review units. So he doesn’t get to comment on long term issues with them. He famously still uses a 20 year old Apple ADB keyboard.
- bradknowles 7y ago
  Apple doesn't always do this. But they do have a pattern of sometimes doing this, when they feel like the thing they delivered is just fine, and they are blind to the problems that are being reported by the industry. And when that happens, and people scream louder, then Apple digs their heads under the sand just that much deeper. It can take a pretty earth-shaking size disaster before Apple finally wakes up and smells the kitten poop [0], and decides to actually do something about it. But once Apple does finally decide to do something about it, they're usually pretty good about bending over backwards to try to repair that part of their damaged reputation. Usually. [0] All young creatures are stinky, it's just the nature of being young and small and in the hypergrowth phase of their life, and lots of input results in lots of output. But somehow kittens seem to be particularly stinky at this phase. One tiny kitten can stink up an entire large five story house. Been there, done that, narrowly avoided officially giving the name "Stinky" to our then-kitten, which would have stuck with her the rest of her life.
- snowwrestler 7y ago
gorbypark 7y ago
Will this make my 13" 2016 MBP better? I don't have any permanently "sticky" keys but on occasion something gets in there and the key feels weird for an hour or two before it somehow "clears" itself out. If I went through the trouble of sending in my laptop, would the keyboard be replaced with a newer keyboard with the "membrane" or would they just slap the exact same keyboard in?
rohug 7y ago
In the list of eligible models: "MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2019, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)" I'm certain they previously would have specified that model with "Touchbar" rather than the number of thunderbolt ports... RIP Touchbar!
- mstibbard 7y ago
  I hope you are right, that would be fantastic! So long and thanks for nothing, Touchbar!
- bradknowles 7y ago
  Of course, that also means that they are killing at least one or two of the Thunderbolt 3 ports. Because there's no way they'd add one or more T3 ports on top of already having four of them. So, maybe you don't want to be so glad to see that designation.....
Tempest1981 7y ago
> The program covers eligible ... models for 4 years after the first retail sale of the unit. After 4 years, if you then pay to have the keyboard replaced, do you get an additional 4 year warranty on the keyboard?
ulfw 7y ago
I would love to know how much this whole keyboard disaster has cost Apple, in constant replacement costs (material, man hours) and reputation/lost sales. The stubbornness to have stuck with this for half a decade is what fascinates me.
- jm4 7y ago
  Can there be any doubt this is what precipitated Ive’s departure? This keyboard is a disaster. They ended up replacing the entire inside of my laptop when my space bar broke. Then I had the logic board replaced again a few months ago after it was bricked by an update. Worst computer I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned the likes of e-machines, gateway and cheap netbooks back in the day. Each repair exceeded the cost of AppleCare. I’m basically on my third laptop with the original case and I don’t think my situation is as bad as some of the other people complaining on HN. They’ve probably lost significant money on these MBPs in addition to the market share they’ve ceded to Dell and Lenovo.
  - raydev 7y ago
    > Can there be any doubt this is what precipitated Ive’s departure? That this precipitated his departure is doubtful. Ive has had one foot out the door for a few years.
    - jm4 7y ago
      This keyboard has been a disaster for a few years. If it’s true that Ive was the one pushing it then it would be ignorant to think that this failure hasn’t had an impact on his standing within the company. This is a massive failure. We are talking about a part that experiences more physical wear and tear than any other in the computer and that requires a logic board replacement as part of the repair process. That’s absurd. How do you think it impacts the margin when a significant number of units are coming in for one or more repairs? Executives get fired for these kinds of failures all the time. Depending on some of the dynamics behind the scenes, I might want him out for this or at least put on a leash if I’m on the board.
rixrax 7y ago
Somewhat off-topic pipe dream, but I wish Apple would up their Linux support. I would get one of these [old 13,1] MBPs in a heartbeat to run Ubuntu on it should I be able to put a stock Linux on it. Unfortunately hibernate and audio still do not appear work[0]. [0] https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux
ibrault 7y ago
Wow. I regularly get repeated "e" keypresses and for the longest time just assumed I was getting worse at typing (even though it was only "e"...). Glad to see it's an actual thing and I'm not crazy. Yes I probably should've Googled it but it wasn't that much of a nuisance
- awakeasleep 7y ago
  This has been the perfect solution to my double press problems. https://unshaky.nestederror.com https://unshaky.nestederror.com
archy_ 7y ago
I'm impressed that Apple would continue to replace devices without a warranty. Really shows their dedication to their customers, not many other companies would continue to drop so much money on devices they don't have to support.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  They're being threatened with/ have multiple class actions underway about these keyboards not being "fit for purpose", spent months, years denying that it was a problem. I'd slow down on the cheerleading just a little.
babyslothzoo 7y ago
I don't know a single person who likes these keyboards or the Touch Bar.
cletus 7y ago
Rumour now has it that Apple will make the almost unprecedented move of abandoning this keyboard design [1]. Technically, they might be replacing it with a newer design (vs the old chiclet keys which IMHO were actually great) but still... One can't help but note the timing of Johnny Ive leaving with this move. If it comes to pass (and it is just a rumour at this point and there are a lot of false Apple rumours because clickbait). Johnny Ive does seem to be obsessed with thinness to the point of ludicrousness. It's said design is the art of compromise and any design is a compromise. To me the 2010+ Macbook Air was essentially a "perfect" laptop. Powerful enough, with enough ports but also quite cheap (under $1500) and light. Size, weight, cost and power are all axes for compromise. This was largely replaced with the 12" Macbook, which sacrificed pretty much everything to shave off another millimeter or two. One USB-C port. It's almost unprecedented that this form factor (13" Macbook Air) would be resurrected yet it was. Is this tantamount to an admission of error with the 12" Macbook? Was it effectively a rebuke of Johnny Ive's "thinness above all else" philosophy? Is the new keyboard (if it happens) a furhter admission of error? I don't know of course but I'm hopeful that the current trend of terrible Apple design will reverse. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/4/20682079/apple-butterfly-switch-scissor-switch-2019-macbook-air-2020-macbook-pro https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/4/20682079/apple-butterfly-s...
algaeontoast 7y ago
Does this entail a replacement keyboard with their "new" keyswitches or just service if you happen to have a key start sticking?

212 points by green-eclipse 7y ago

green-eclipse 7y ago

To be clear, according to Apple, these keyboard repairs are free.

cstuder 7y ago
Plus if you paid in the past, you can ask Apple for a refund.
ramijames 7y ago
My time isn't free. The fact that I have to deal with this at all makes me never want to buy another Mac and I have been a heavy user for at least 20 years. Super annoyed.
- cced 7y ago
  This. I have 7 distinct repairs so far. Every one of these involves a back up, checking in at the Apple Store, explaining what the issue is, having the staff run “diagnostics” only to find nothing wrong with the computer, my having to tell them that this has become routine and that I want them to take my computer in for repairs, having them call me back a few days later with a repaired computer, retrieving the computer, reinstalling the image. I just want my money back.
  - iamnotacrook 7y ago
    It sounds like the "diagnostics" are faulty. If they ended up fixing your problems (as suggested by your "distinct repairs" comments, so they can't have just sat on the device for a phone days then said "yep, we fixed it") then it sounds like they do further tests once they've accepted it for repair, and where those tests highlight a genuine problem, in which case they should probably do those tests initially instead, or at least not make you have to argue with someone at the store when you've already had to stop work, get it to the store etc.
    - delfinom 7y ago
      The goal of their diagnostics is to a.) upsell/make you pay up for "repairs" you may or may not need b.) avoid doing work under warranty Same shit for car dealers and other places involving consumer goods. This all driven by corporate setting quotas for employees to meet (knowing full well they can't be met unless certain non-spoken shortcuts are taken...).
      - dpkonofa 7y ago
        No it's not. The diagnostics are just basic, front-level diagnostics that they do for all machines to check off a few boxes. It's unfortunate when you're in the small percentage of people that have an uncommon problem but their current diagnostic system lets them accommodate and repair 99% of the issues people come in for quickly with 1st tier repair staff. It's not ideal but they're not trying to screw you over. Apple has some of the best and most highly rated support in the industry.
    - FireBeyond 7y ago
      I had a 2015(?) MBP with GPU issues, as (eventually) documented by Apple. On their support page they describe the error you might see in the console logs. There it was. It passed Diagnostics with flying colors. So I showed the tech that I was able to reproducibly hard crash the laptop by playing a video on the Apple site in Safari, and after the force restart the same error would appear. They still were "reluctant" to fix it under that program (though they eventually did).
  - davemp 7y ago
    I had my display start to go and I just called support instead of going into a store. The rep just next-day’d me a box with shipping label and I got it back in a few days. All you have to do is convince the support rep that you know what you’re talking about.
- mikaelsouza 7y ago
  It is even worse when there are no Apple Store nerby, only Apple certified resellers, which is my case. The last time I had a problem with my MBP's screen, it took almost a month to be fixed. A failing keyboard is enough reason for me to wait for a version which they fix all these issues. Even if it only breaks for a "small percentage of users", it wouldn't be nice to wait almost a month without my work machine...
  - bradknowles 7y ago
    It depends on your reseller. Here in Austin, we have Austin MacWorks (see https://austinmacworks.com/ https://austinmacworks.com/). Apple actually sends them hardware to be repaired that is so old that they can't fix it themselves, because they don't have the necessary spare parts and experienced technicians on staff. Both of their hardware technicians have over 30 years of experience repairing stuff, and have every single certification that Apple has. For everything Austin MacWorks can't fix in-house, they are very good about getting that stuff out to depot and getting it back ASAP, and they will do your backups and restores for you, if necessary. If I have a simple problem, I'm happy taking that to the Apple Genius bar directly. For everything else, I don't trust anyone but Austin MacWorks.
- 8draco8 7y ago
  Companies like Dell and Lenovo just ships fault element if it's possible to replace it yourself and in many cases it is possible to replace keyboard without to much hustle. Not to mention their on premise warranty which usually cost somewhere around AppleCare plan. If I am working on a hardware, 9 hours a day 5,6 or even 7 days a week I don't have time to sit in Apple store for hours. Even worst, in country where I am currently there is no Apple stores, period and that's in the middle of Europe not some remote island somewhere on Pacific. Here there are only third party services accredited by Apple to do fixed and they always say "14 working days for fix" which is unacceptable.
  - t3rabytes 7y ago
    They do that if you paid for the premium warranty options, it's not included by default -- it's typically depot service for everything by default.
    - 8draco8 7y ago
      Yeah and premium warranty option from Apple aka AppleCare doesn't change anything apart from longer support and some discounts on parts. Time of service stays the same. For the cost comparable to AppleCare I can have premium service package from Lenovo with on premise service.
    - jasonlotito 7y ago
      I paid for premium service from Dell (Alienware actually, but they were owned by Dell by then), which was around the same price as AppleCare. Someone came out to my house the next day and fixed the computer on the spot, replacing a part. This was for a part that failed because I was stupid and didn't have the computer plugged into a surge protector. After that, setting up an appointment, going to an Apple Store, waiting in the sea of people, and having to send in my computer, only to have to come back to the store later isn't exceptional in the slightest.
  - spronkey 7y ago
    Both Dell and Lenovo are getting worse when it comes to easy repair though. Newer Thinkpads have been nightmareish for keyboard replacements.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- green-eclipse 7y ago
  Totally fair point. It is a hassle and a regrettable that the keyboards have this problem. It's a design flaw. But at least they are doing the right thing. Hopefully the new keyboard design fixes the flaws.

quxbar 7y ago

I'm quite glad I've held onto my mid-2012 15 inch mbp all these years. I had the latest 2019 model for a job and it was a distinct downgrade. The 2012 model isn't much heavier or slower, has all the ports I need, and they keyboard feels relatively solid. I hope Apple will come to their senses and pull an iPhone SE, releasing the design from 2012 with updated internals. FaceID would make it perfect.

igotsideas 7y ago
Yes! I have a 2011 MBP that is going strong. I never had a problem with it. My 2018 MBP from work has been switched out twice because of the keyboard and the screen just going dead.

jacknews 7y ago

Add to that, that the keycaps break. They have teeny-tiny clips on the top edge, which just break after a while, and they just lift off, sticking to your finger, or just shift slightly, enough not to 'click' when you press them. I'm not a particularly heavy typist (though it sounds like it on the butterfly keyboard, compared to my previous 2013 macbbok pro), but I've now had about 8 keycaps replaced in the lasst year. edit: OK I was going to edit out the multiple-letters, but not this time, as this is actually quite typical of typing on this 2016 mbp, so illustrates the problem.

dsego 7y ago
This happens to me as well. In time those keycaps become loose and start falling out. And it's way to easy to snap them off when replacing.
dillondoyle 7y ago
My A S and C keys letters are totally warn out and white and the light shines through a good part. I get a new laptop each year (pass old down through business) and this degradation happens pretty quick. must be oil from fingers. though I like to think I'm pretty clean and my laptop is too..
unicornfinder 7y ago
Yup I had this. At first I was able to fix it by bending the clips back but eventually they just kept popping off. Took it to Apple and they replaced the top case but it took about a week and considering it's the machine I use to do work, it was frustrating. I remember them saying to me something along the lines of, "is now an okay time to leave it with us?" and just sort of saying "well it's not like a better time is going to pop up" heh.
hombre_fatal 7y ago
If I turn my macbook upside-down, 8 key caps will fall onto the floor. It’s comically bad. Had the whole keyboard replaced a year ago for the same problem.
cletus 7y ago
Serious question: how much force do you type with? The reason I ask is that I see many, many people stab laptop keyboards with a ridiculous amount of force. It actually bothers me like someone is banging on my skull, particularly for the bad keyboards you have (which includes the latest MBP). I learned to touch type in high school. At first, believe it or not, it was with manual typewriters. These actually require a lot of force, so much so that once you go to a computer keyboard (or even an electronic typewriter) there's really no going back. Low-profile keyboards (including laptops) need the lightest amount of touch to register a tap. Low profile also needs very little travel. At my best I could probably type at 70+ wpm. I haven't measured in awhile but it's probably worse (with sufficient accuracy). Coding uses a lot of symbols that a QWERTY keyboard just isn't optimized for (and typing speed doesn't tend to be the limiting factor anyway). In years and years of coding and typing on computer keyboards I've had almost zero problems with RSI or carpal tunnel or any of that. When I was typing much more (vs coding) with standard keyboards, I actually did get a little sensitivity/soreness along my ulna and the outer edge of my hand (going up to my pinky finger). It had the feeling of being inflamed (in that something cold on it relieved it). But after decades of typing that's it. And I haven't had that in years. That's pretty good. Anyway, bringing this back around... I wonder how many keyboard reliability and RSI issues can be attributed to essentially "bad" typing habits like too much force.

iends 7y ago

I’m not sure I have an issue, because I always use an external keyboard. Will Apple still fix my keyboard, or does it have to exhibit some issue?

vuln 7y ago

Ugh. I really want to upgrade my 2014 mba. Four gigs of ram doesn’t cut it anymore and my eyes have grown tired of the screen. I love the size, battery life, I just don’t know what to get next.

milquetoastaf 7y ago
2017 Macbook Air models are great, last gen before butterfly keys
52-6F-62 7y ago
There are a lot of refurb 2015 MBP's on the market since many people upgraded to newer machines. They're the last run before the butterfly keyboard, you can find up to 16GB memory and 512GB storage—some of them with dedicated video as well (if the 15" size is what you're after). And substantially cheaper than new models. Mind you I think this is t he run with the battery issue.....
- breck 7y ago
  I didn’t know there were 16GB options. I thought I got the best last generation MBA at 8gb and 512. It’s my primary machine and I still love it.
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    I have a MBP 13" 2015 with 16 GB RAM and a MBP 15" 2015 with 16 GB RAM. The 13" was actually bought in begin of 2017.
    - breck 7y ago
      Ah, as I wrote in the other comment it must have been my mistake, not checking the actual store and just going straight to the refurb store.
  - tdurden 7y ago
    My mid 2014 15" MBP came with 16GB

rogerhoward 7y ago

After months of suffering with this, with an out warranty 15" MBP 2016 that was relegated to desk duty with an external keyboard, I heard about this program. I made an Apple Store appointment for the next day (a Tuesday); they checked it, warned me it could be a week or more because of a holiday that week. Thursday morning I had a call that it was ready. Total cost: $0 (according to the invoice the parts were over $800, including a mainboard replacement to fix a loose USB-C port). It was a basically new machine when I got it back. I'm still sore over this kbd design, but its otherwise been a good laptop and their no-questions-asked handling of it was great.

mtrpcic 7y ago
I had a similar experience. Struggled with several keys either "not pressing" or "double pressing". After a while I took it in, they gave me an estimate of 5 days for repair, and called me after 4. No charge, no fee, no questions. Once I got used to the butterfly keys I didn't mind the low travel distance, and now that my keyboard is in proper working order, I have no issues with it. Still wish there was an escape key though...
- Jakob 7y ago
  You can set caps lock as escape key in System Preferences since one of the last OS versions. For me this works even better than the original escape key position since it’s on the home row.
  - pault 7y ago
    I don't know if it's possible with third party software (I use a hardware programmable keyboard running QMK), but I map it to tap for escape, hold for ctrl. If you use vim keybindings for your editor it's glorious.
    - ashton314 7y ago
      That’s what I’ve been doing too! I’m an Emacs user, and this setup has been glorious. I actually use an external keyboard, and I still use this setup. I’ve been using Karabiner to remap: https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/index.html https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/index.html

tomduncalf 7y ago

Why is this being reposted? Has something changed recently or is it the same as before? I'd like them to extend it beyond four years to be honest, would go some way towards making up for this sh design

savoytruffle 7y ago
It keeps expanding to more and older MacBooks

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

stunt 7y ago

Ok! this is least they could do, and it's something that I'd appreciate and expect from a company like Apple. Finally! They could really recognize this problem earlier.

02thoeva 7y ago

Dropped mine in earlier this week at a London Store. Currently a 7-10 day turnaround for repairs.

jasonsync 7y ago

My report: I just got a new MacBook Air a few weeks ago, to replace an aging MacBook Air. Retina display is a huge upgrade, and USB C is great (I don't miss the mag safe charger as much as I thought I would). The keyboard though ... Week 1: For the first week the keyboard was great (although more clacky sounding than the older model). Week 2: The R key started misfiring. Press the R key 10 times, you only get 8 Rs on screen. Week 3: I was about to bring it in to get replaced, but then the R key started working again. Great that Apple has acknowledged the issue, and as soon as the R key misbehaves again, I will be bringing my MacBook Air in for repair. The misfiring, along with the clacking noise makes the overall experience of the newer keyboard feel "cheaper" than it's predecessors.

mrmuagi 7y ago
If I was in your boots, I would be quite upset. I can deal with some minor hiccups here and there, but the R key is quite crucial. I would weigh trying to do a repair anyway just to guard against against a probable future occurrence...
aiddun 7y ago
I recently got a new MBP as a graduation gift and had the same experience with you. Everything was going great until about a month in when the space bar started randomly double pressing, sometimes putting periods mid sentence. It's in the shop now. Coming from using an already pre-owned Thinkpad Yoga for many years with a perfect keyboard, this is crazy for a product like this.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 7y ago
I’ve had many of these machines. It’s very likely only a matter of time before that R key gives you trouble again, or one of the surrounding ones.

BitwiseFool 7y ago

I'll be holding on to my 2012 MacBook Pro until they switch to a different kind of keyboard. If they don't, then I'm getting a Surface instead.

pault 7y ago
If you don't care about the default telemetry and ads, switch to Windows 10 with WSL. I was a die hard Mac user for a decade and since switching I haven't looked back. Windows is a different beast than it was 10 years ago, and having the whole ecosystem of hardware and software at your disposal is fantastic.
- nsriv 7y ago
  I blocked telemetry through hosts file blocking as detailed here, might be helpful to some. https://www.thurrott.com/forums/microsoft/windows/thread/disabling-windows-10-telemetry https://www.thurrott.com/forums/microsoft/windows/thread/dis...
- hiram112 7y ago
  I still am trying to figure out what WSL has solved for anyone. It works fine for the little tutorials they use to showcase it, but on any real project it is just as bad as what many of us have had to do for the last 10 years if we were stuck with Windows: use a VM with all the problems it brings like using extra CPU and memory, poor filesystem performance, duplicating tools and configs in both the Windows and Linux environments, etc.
  - pault 7y ago
    I'm not sure what your threshold is for a real project, but I've been using it for multi-stack dev environments with no trouble at all for the past year. You shouldn't use it to host a production environment, but I'm not sure why you would want to. What it solves is you don't have to use the minority, poorly supported windows ports of your language runtime, if it even has one. Many smaller languages I've tried don't support windows at all, and many NPM libraries have terrible bugs in windows (hard coding posix paths/environment variables, etc). WSL allows you to skip all of that trouble and use windows without changing any of your workflows or having to learn a totally new shell. The upcoming 2.0 release should be even better.

skue 7y ago

On a related note, has anyone else had issues with the iPad Smart Keyboard after 15+ months? Bought mine for the 10.5 iPad Pro and at some point I started getting Accessory Not Recognized messages, then it would stop working unless I removed and reattached it, then it finally died entirely. There are reports of similar experiences in the Apple Support Communities and on Reddit, and Apple reportedly created a program to replace some of the keyboards [1]. But when I contacted Apple I was told my keyboard was out of warranty — effectively $180 of electronic waste after just over one year of use. [1] https://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/17/05/08/apple-offers-free-ipad-pro-smart-keyboard-repairs-in-wake-of-functional-issues https://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/17/05/08/apple-offe...

derefr 7y ago
Sounds like the trouble with old NES cartridges: corroded contacts. (They sometimes started working when you reseated them enough times, because moving them in and out of the connector was scraping off a little bit of the corrosion.) If that’s the problem, the real solution should be the same: cleaning the keyboard’s contact pads (and maybe the iPad’s contact pads as well) with a q-tip and a bit of isopropyl alcohol.
ericpauley 7y ago
Try taking a pencil eraser (preferably the white high polymer type) and cleaning off the contacts on the back of your iPad. Worked wonders for mine.
chendragon 7y ago
My iPad Pro 12.9 smart keyboard also failed in this way. Fortunately the Apple store replaced it for free (Vancouver BC Canada) saying there was a quality program about these keyboards. Apparently it is not the connector, but the flex cable that connects the iPad that fails.
msisk6 7y ago
I have the previous gen 12.9" iPad Pro and my keyboard has just started giving me the not recognized messages and occasionally not working. It hasn't died completely yet but I'm giving it to my son and he'll mostly just use the pencil doing art stuff so it's not that big a deal personally. Still, it's sad to see so much Apple tech being life-limited due to aging batteries or what not.

arvinsim 7y ago

Dang, I bought AppleCare just for this issue. But then again, the peace of mind I get for the next few years is probably worth it.

pooya13 7y ago

This was the case with my 2015 MacBook a couple of years ago. The “geniuses” were refusing to fix the keyboard free of charge until they realized I was aware of the law suite and their attitude suddenly changed to “we will fix it for free because we have a great customer support”. I garantee there are people who didn’t know better and paid for it. And I highly doubt that “it’s a small percentage of the customers” affected as that page claims.

bradknowles 7y ago
When you have millions of customers, even a "small percentage" is still a pretty large number.
ericmcer 7y ago
I don't understand why the workers would do that. There is no incentive for them to get you to pay for it. I worked retail for 8ish years and I was usually as good to the customer as my company would allow. It would be bizarre for me to try to hoodwink a customer out of a free repair I am authorized to provide, because I felt some bizarre loyalty to my corporation.
- pooya13 7y ago
  I suspect that it was because at that stage Apple was still in denial about the issue.

panzagl 7y ago

My daughter wants a Macbook when she leaves for college next month- no Apple store within a 8-hour drive. Does anyone have experience getting this type of stuff fixed through whatever arrangement Apple has with a typical University? Is Applecare an absolute requirement in this type of situation?

jonplackett 7y ago
If you can wait until September that’s the month some people predict there will be a new MacBook Air with a new type of keyboard that goes back to the original design.
- dpkonofa 7y ago
  Don't make recommendations based on predictions. That's a terrible reason to wait for a necessary purchase.
  - OrangeMango 7y ago
    But they do offer a small education discount ($50 or so on the cheaper hardware) and almost always have a "Back to School" promotion in which they also throw in some sort of accessory for free. For the last two years (at least), the "Back to School" promotion launched in the middle of July and offered a free set of Beats headphones, which had a retail price of $200-300.
    - dpkonofa 7y ago
      Sure, and that's a valid reason to wait. Waiting on rumor and conjecture, though, is almost always a bad idea.
  - bradknowles 7y ago
    Yup. Most predictions in this business don't hold a lot of water, especially when it comes to anything that Apple hasn't already publicly committed to and just hasn't announced a shipping date.

rgovostes 7y ago

I have two generations of the butterfly keyboard and I can say that the version with a silicone membrane is vastly superior. The keys feel much better, they rattle less for virtually silent typing. iFixit found that the membrane also made a big difference in terms of limiting the impact of dust: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/19/17592138/ifixit-apple-macbook-pro-keyboard-anti-dust-membrane-update-teardown https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/19/17592138/i... I have sent two of the pre-membrane keyboards in for repair, but haven't had an issue with this new one. I haven't tried the one or two revisions since the membrane has been added, which are reported to be better still.

nwienert 7y ago
My silicone membrane keyboard has broken twice already in 6 months.
whalesalad 7y ago
This is good to hear. I resisted for a long time then finally upgraded at the end of last year to a 2018 15" MBP. I happen to really enjoy the keyboard.. I'm glad I missed out on the previous revision.
gorbypark 7y ago
I have a 2016 13" MBP which I believe does not have the membrane. Any idea if they'd replace it with a membrane version of the keyboard or if they would just put in the exact same one as before?
- rgovostes 7y ago
  Unfortunately, I can say with near certainty they would not put a newer keyboard in an older machine.
robbyt 7y ago
Are they replacing the old keyboards with new ones?

luckydata 7y ago

I'm a little surprised anyone is surprised by this story. Apple has a long history of making questionable engineering decisions that end making their products nigh unusable and then steadfastly refusing to acknowledge the issue until evidence becomes too hard to deny. It happened with the iMacs multiple times, with the phones multiple times, with the MacBooks multiple times... By now we should know and not give them the unreasonable amount of credit we, but I should really say the tech press, gives them.

scarface74 7y ago
The “tech press” - even the Apple press were complaining about the quality of the keyboards from day one. In John Gruber’s initial review when they first came out he said he didn’t like them as did Marco Arment. They are two of the most well known Apple pundits. At least Marco slso complained about the iMac monitors before he got the iMac Pro. Gruber doesn’t upgrade his computers as often as Marco but he does usually get review units. So he doesn’t get to comment on long term issues with them. He famously still uses a 20 year old Apple ADB keyboard.
bradknowles 7y ago
Apple doesn't always do this. But they do have a pattern of sometimes doing this, when they feel like the thing they delivered is just fine, and they are blind to the problems that are being reported by the industry. And when that happens, and people scream louder, then Apple digs their heads under the sand just that much deeper. It can take a pretty earth-shaking size disaster before Apple finally wakes up and smells the kitten poop [0], and decides to actually do something about it. But once Apple does finally decide to do something about it, they're usually pretty good about bending over backwards to try to repair that part of their damaged reputation. Usually. [0] All young creatures are stinky, it's just the nature of being young and small and in the hypergrowth phase of their life, and lots of input results in lots of output. But somehow kittens seem to be particularly stinky at this phase. One tiny kitten can stink up an entire large five story house. Been there, done that, narrowly avoided officially giving the name "Stinky" to our then-kitten, which would have stuck with her the rest of her life.
snowwrestler 7y ago

gorbypark 7y ago

Will this make my 13" 2016 MBP better? I don't have any permanently "sticky" keys but on occasion something gets in there and the key feels weird for an hour or two before it somehow "clears" itself out. If I went through the trouble of sending in my laptop, would the keyboard be replaced with a newer keyboard with the "membrane" or would they just slap the exact same keyboard in?

rohug 7y ago

In the list of eligible models: "MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2019, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)" I'm certain they previously would have specified that model with "Touchbar" rather than the number of thunderbolt ports... RIP Touchbar!

mstibbard 7y ago
I hope you are right, that would be fantastic! So long and thanks for nothing, Touchbar!
bradknowles 7y ago
Of course, that also means that they are killing at least one or two of the Thunderbolt 3 ports. Because there's no way they'd add one or more T3 ports on top of already having four of them. So, maybe you don't want to be so glad to see that designation.....

Tempest1981 7y ago

> The program covers eligible ... models for 4 years after the first retail sale of the unit. After 4 years, if you then pay to have the keyboard replaced, do you get an additional 4 year warranty on the keyboard?

ulfw 7y ago

I would love to know how much this whole keyboard disaster has cost Apple, in constant replacement costs (material, man hours) and reputation/lost sales. The stubbornness to have stuck with this for half a decade is what fascinates me.

jm4 7y ago
Can there be any doubt this is what precipitated Ive’s departure? This keyboard is a disaster. They ended up replacing the entire inside of my laptop when my space bar broke. Then I had the logic board replaced again a few months ago after it was bricked by an update. Worst computer I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned the likes of e-machines, gateway and cheap netbooks back in the day. Each repair exceeded the cost of AppleCare. I’m basically on my third laptop with the original case and I don’t think my situation is as bad as some of the other people complaining on HN. They’ve probably lost significant money on these MBPs in addition to the market share they’ve ceded to Dell and Lenovo.
- raydev 7y ago
  > Can there be any doubt this is what precipitated Ive’s departure? That this precipitated his departure is doubtful. Ive has had one foot out the door for a few years.
  - jm4 7y ago
    This keyboard has been a disaster for a few years. If it’s true that Ive was the one pushing it then it would be ignorant to think that this failure hasn’t had an impact on his standing within the company. This is a massive failure. We are talking about a part that experiences more physical wear and tear than any other in the computer and that requires a logic board replacement as part of the repair process. That’s absurd. How do you think it impacts the margin when a significant number of units are coming in for one or more repairs? Executives get fired for these kinds of failures all the time. Depending on some of the dynamics behind the scenes, I might want him out for this or at least put on a leash if I’m on the board.

rixrax 7y ago

Somewhat off-topic pipe dream, but I wish Apple would up their Linux support. I would get one of these [old 13,1] MBPs in a heartbeat to run Ubuntu on it should I be able to put a stock Linux on it. Unfortunately hibernate and audio still do not appear work[0]. [0] https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux

ibrault 7y ago

Wow. I regularly get repeated "e" keypresses and for the longest time just assumed I was getting worse at typing (even though it was only "e"...). Glad to see it's an actual thing and I'm not crazy. Yes I probably should've Googled it but it wasn't that much of a nuisance

awakeasleep 7y ago
This has been the perfect solution to my double press problems. https://unshaky.nestederror.com https://unshaky.nestederror.com

archy_ 7y ago

I'm impressed that Apple would continue to replace devices without a warranty. Really shows their dedication to their customers, not many other companies would continue to drop so much money on devices they don't have to support.

FireBeyond 7y ago
They're being threatened with/ have multiple class actions underway about these keyboards not being "fit for purpose", spent months, years denying that it was a problem. I'd slow down on the cheerleading just a little.

babyslothzoo 7y ago

I don't know a single person who likes these keyboards or the Touch Bar.

cletus 7y ago

Rumour now has it that Apple will make the almost unprecedented move of abandoning this keyboard design [1]. Technically, they might be replacing it with a newer design (vs the old chiclet keys which IMHO were actually great) but still... One can't help but note the timing of Johnny Ive leaving with this move. If it comes to pass (and it is just a rumour at this point and there are a lot of false Apple rumours because clickbait). Johnny Ive does seem to be obsessed with thinness to the point of ludicrousness. It's said design is the art of compromise and any design is a compromise. To me the 2010+ Macbook Air was essentially a "perfect" laptop. Powerful enough, with enough ports but also quite cheap (under $1500) and light. Size, weight, cost and power are all axes for compromise. This was largely replaced with the 12" Macbook, which sacrificed pretty much everything to shave off another millimeter or two. One USB-C port. It's almost unprecedented that this form factor (13" Macbook Air) would be resurrected yet it was. Is this tantamount to an admission of error with the 12" Macbook? Was it effectively a rebuke of Johnny Ive's "thinness above all else" philosophy? Is the new keyboard (if it happens) a furhter admission of error? I don't know of course but I'm hopeful that the current trend of terrible Apple design will reverse. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/4/20682079/apple-butterfly-switch-scissor-switch-2019-macbook-air-2020-macbook-pro https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/4/20682079/apple-butterfly-s...

algaeontoast 7y ago

Does this entail a replacement keyboard with their "new" keyswitches or just service if you happen to have a key start sticking?