6 ms·

China is building a floating train that could be faster than air travel

34 points by jonbaer 7y ago

jarym 7y ago
Guess they need to get people to those vocational training centres even faster...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
xiii1408 7y ago
I'm continuously baffled by our (Americans') fixation with innovating on public transit technology instead of actually building any that people could use right now. Why focus money on developing a hyperloop++, when we could have something almost as good with technology that currently exists?
- gberger 7y ago
  Because Elon Musk is not the government
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  Seattle is full of this. Tons of people around Seattle vote against transit because it won't serve them directly. "The train doesn't visit my house, so why should we build it", or so the thinking goes. It's more than a little myopic, considering many of them commute via car into the city, and getting people onto the train would reduce their commute. But hey, the individualistic "I'm not going to use it, so why should I pay for it" is an accepted attitude in the states.
  - Florin_Andrei 7y ago
    There's nothing magic about individualism and "freedom" (mind the double quotes). Past a certain point, more is not automatically better.
- n4r9 7y ago
  Sounds kind of similar to the prevalence of using cool tech stacks to achieve goals in complicated ways when you can do the same with a couple of bash scripts.
- meddlepal 7y ago
  Cynical: American's have accepted that the status quo really cannot be improved much due to a variety of factors including cost, politics/NIMBYism and environmental stuff. We can still innovate on the tech and make a profit by selling it to other countries even if we are utterly incapable of adopting it ourselves. Basically, America is done advancing it's infrastructure for the foreseeable future.
  - simion314 7y ago
    What I seen here on HN from many topics from americans is the fact that they believe that for some reason US conditions are special, is largeror the density is not good enough or the work conditions are worse in other countries, I do not understand why there are not many private minibuses for short distances and nicer(private) buses for medium distances, from what I read here it appears like US has no private transport companies. At least those would work oh the high demand routes. Are there regulations that prevent this or is something more cultural (like only poor guys would use a bus or train). There is the issue that people in HN may live in larger cities and have more money then the average person.
    - meddlepal 7y ago
      Well we have Uber/Lyft which are private transportation companies... but that's not what you were thinking of I suspect. > Are there regulations that prevent this or is something more cultural (like only poor guys would use a bus or train). Mostly this. Busses are seen as transport for the poor and American's hate to identify themselves with poverty.
      - simion314 7y ago
        Let me give you examples on what I am thinking of. I live in a village 10Km from a city, there are private companies with buses or minibuses that operate on this route but that also go to villages that may be 50Km away from the city (people work in the city but own houses in the villages, some will do this route daily others only in weekends if they own an apartment in the city ) Many students in my area are studding in larger cities, maybe 300+ Km away (6 hours with a bus or 8 with a train) , there is a large number of private companies on this routes , you have a lot of choices like starting from 4AM until 16PM at every 2 hours there will be a bus (again from private companies). The trains are not as often, maybe only 1 direct train to one of the major cities.
- praveenster 7y ago
  I get your point and I somewhat agree with it, especially when I see a lot of cities worldwide having better public transportation than in places in my neighborhood (SoCal). But, the large benefit of working on these futuristic ideas is that it helps indirect innovation in other areas, similar to how the lunar missions helped build and shape a lot of other technologies.
- r00fus 7y ago
  It's a sign of disfunction that folks like Elon aren't getting government contracts (if only for feasibility review) rather than doing their own thing. In the end China/Japan will be selling this technology to us, not the other way around.
  - Florin_Andrei 7y ago
    But don't you know, "government" is a bad word, and "socialism" is bad for you. /s
- will_brown 7y ago
  Because the US doesn’t care about helping people who would take public transportation...instead we prefer VCs funneling money into innovative startups disrupting transportation by littering scooters all over our public walkways and allowing them to eventually take these companies public for billions in return. God forbid you have an opinion other than US transportation is the best, US healthcare is the best, US education is the best...you can’t even look at other countries models or actual global rankings showing the US outspends every other country in those area yet our outcomes are nowhere near the top.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't post unsubstantive flamewar comments to HN. I don't mean to pick on you personally, but rather on this category of comment: high-indignation, low-information. What kind of discussion follows from something like this? Worse discussion. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Shivetya 7y ago
  because politicians are not interested in public transit unless it involves a ribbon cutting and or a naming celebration. throw in that within just the boundaries of one state and they could not even build a high speed rail without tripling of costs and involvement of hundreds of parties who all wanted their piece of the action. in some sort of perverse way we should be thankful for all the political hamstringing that public transportation suffers because it has forced private industry to innovate around that. the public transit bus is the most affordable and flexible means to move the people throughout the city yet it is regularly slighted in funds to promote rail which has more prestige attached to it.
- api 7y ago
  The US isn't even really building hyperloop. Even if it gets prototyped, it's not like governments are going to sign up. A generation of Americans were brainwashed that infrastructure equals communism. Nothing will happen in US infrastructure until the baby boomers retire from politics.
- Yetanfou 7y ago
  Because it is relatively easy to develop new technology, hard to build things in the US where the government can not just decide to build something without lengthy procedures to appropriate funds and property.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
yorwba 7y ago
Discussed 40 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20000034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20000034
- Grue3 7y ago
  Why is Chuo Shinkansen [1] never mentioned, either in the article or in either of these two discussions? It's an actual intercity maglev line being built right now, so you'd think it would be the first thing to compare to this Chinese train? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%AB%C5%8D_Shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%AB%C5%8D_Shinkansen
  - yorwba 7y ago
    It is mentioned in the article: China isn’t the only country experimenting with maglev technology. Japan, a pioneer of high-speed rail, broke its own world record, hitting 603 km/h during a test run of an SC Maglev train in 2015. The country is building a new maglev line between Tokyo and Nagoya, scheduled to open in 2027.
kazinator 7y ago
Even if it goes 300 km/h, and you don't have to arrive at the station 3 hours ahead of time and be subject to all sorts of delays and inconveniences, it will beat air travel.
kazinator 7y ago
> Maglev technology uses strong electromagnets which lift and propel the train forward on a cushion of air. Until a fuse blows. That will be fun at 600 km/h.
Pfhreak 7y ago
How are trains like this powered? Naively, I'd assume electrically rather than with big ol' diesel or jet engines. If that's the case, wouldn't these trains not only be faster but significantly less impactful to the environment? (Assuming, of course, that the energy mixture in the power plants that power the train aren't fossil fuels.)
- wolfgang42 7y ago
  Even if they use jet engines it's still likely to be better than air travel—airplanes spend a significant amount of their energy just staying in the air.
- kuschku 7y ago
  In countries with first-world train systems, all trains are already electrically powered anyway. In some countries, long-distance travel is even already 100% renewable https://gruen.deutschebahn.com/en/projects/ice https://gruen.deutschebahn.com/en/projects/ice It’s mostly the US, the UK, and other countries with third-world infrastructure that still heavily rely on diesel in long-distance train travel
  - baron_harkonnen 7y ago
    Sorry by that only applies to US passenger rail, US freight rail is an impressively efficient system. US freight trains are diesel-electric allowing them to benefit from the high mechanical efficiency of electric engines coupled with the high energy density of diesel fuel as a power source. The US is second only to china in terms of ton-kilometers of freight transported and moves nearly an order of magnitude more freight by rail than the EU. With the exception of China, which has both massive freight and transport rail systems, most countries tend to trade off between transport of freight. The reason the US's transport rail is awful is because it's freight rail is incredible. And though it may be diesel it is a remarkably efficient use of is (as opposed to the trucks necessary for transport if you don't use trains)
    - kuschku 7y ago
jefurii 7y ago
I was hoping they were working on an ekranoplan but it's a maglev. Still pretty cool tho.
traeregan 7y ago
Straight out of Wakanda.
midhir 7y ago
I did Beijing to Xi'an last September in about 4.5 hours on the regular 320kph trains. To be honest, when you take into account security checks, boarding etc I just don't think it could've been done quicker by plane. Not to mention the train station being central and the experience just being all round more fun!

34 points by jonbaer 7y ago

jarym 7y ago

Guess they need to get people to those vocational training centres even faster...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

xiii1408 7y ago

I'm continuously baffled by our (Americans') fixation with innovating on public transit technology instead of actually building any that people could use right now. Why focus money on developing a hyperloop++, when we could have something almost as good with technology that currently exists?

gberger 7y ago
Because Elon Musk is not the government
Pfhreak 7y ago
Seattle is full of this. Tons of people around Seattle vote against transit because it won't serve them directly. "The train doesn't visit my house, so why should we build it", or so the thinking goes. It's more than a little myopic, considering many of them commute via car into the city, and getting people onto the train would reduce their commute. But hey, the individualistic "I'm not going to use it, so why should I pay for it" is an accepted attitude in the states.
- Florin_Andrei 7y ago
  There's nothing magic about individualism and "freedom" (mind the double quotes). Past a certain point, more is not automatically better.
n4r9 7y ago
Sounds kind of similar to the prevalence of using cool tech stacks to achieve goals in complicated ways when you can do the same with a couple of bash scripts.
meddlepal 7y ago
Cynical: American's have accepted that the status quo really cannot be improved much due to a variety of factors including cost, politics/NIMBYism and environmental stuff. We can still innovate on the tech and make a profit by selling it to other countries even if we are utterly incapable of adopting it ourselves. Basically, America is done advancing it's infrastructure for the foreseeable future.
- simion314 7y ago
  What I seen here on HN from many topics from americans is the fact that they believe that for some reason US conditions are special, is largeror the density is not good enough or the work conditions are worse in other countries, I do not understand why there are not many private minibuses for short distances and nicer(private) buses for medium distances, from what I read here it appears like US has no private transport companies. At least those would work oh the high demand routes. Are there regulations that prevent this or is something more cultural (like only poor guys would use a bus or train). There is the issue that people in HN may live in larger cities and have more money then the average person.
  - meddlepal 7y ago
    Well we have Uber/Lyft which are private transportation companies... but that's not what you were thinking of I suspect. > Are there regulations that prevent this or is something more cultural (like only poor guys would use a bus or train). Mostly this. Busses are seen as transport for the poor and American's hate to identify themselves with poverty.
    - simion314 7y ago
      Let me give you examples on what I am thinking of. I live in a village 10Km from a city, there are private companies with buses or minibuses that operate on this route but that also go to villages that may be 50Km away from the city (people work in the city but own houses in the villages, some will do this route daily others only in weekends if they own an apartment in the city ) Many students in my area are studding in larger cities, maybe 300+ Km away (6 hours with a bus or 8 with a train) , there is a large number of private companies on this routes , you have a lot of choices like starting from 4AM until 16PM at every 2 hours there will be a bus (again from private companies). The trains are not as often, maybe only 1 direct train to one of the major cities.
praveenster 7y ago
I get your point and I somewhat agree with it, especially when I see a lot of cities worldwide having better public transportation than in places in my neighborhood (SoCal). But, the large benefit of working on these futuristic ideas is that it helps indirect innovation in other areas, similar to how the lunar missions helped build and shape a lot of other technologies.
r00fus 7y ago
It's a sign of disfunction that folks like Elon aren't getting government contracts (if only for feasibility review) rather than doing their own thing. In the end China/Japan will be selling this technology to us, not the other way around.
- Florin_Andrei 7y ago
  But don't you know, "government" is a bad word, and "socialism" is bad for you. /s
will_brown 7y ago
Because the US doesn’t care about helping people who would take public transportation...instead we prefer VCs funneling money into innovative startups disrupting transportation by littering scooters all over our public walkways and allowing them to eventually take these companies public for billions in return. God forbid you have an opinion other than US transportation is the best, US healthcare is the best, US education is the best...you can’t even look at other countries models or actual global rankings showing the US outspends every other country in those area yet our outcomes are nowhere near the top.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't post unsubstantive flamewar comments to HN. I don't mean to pick on you personally, but rather on this category of comment: high-indignation, low-information. What kind of discussion follows from something like this? Worse discussion. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Shivetya 7y ago
because politicians are not interested in public transit unless it involves a ribbon cutting and or a naming celebration. throw in that within just the boundaries of one state and they could not even build a high speed rail without tripling of costs and involvement of hundreds of parties who all wanted their piece of the action. in some sort of perverse way we should be thankful for all the political hamstringing that public transportation suffers because it has forced private industry to innovate around that. the public transit bus is the most affordable and flexible means to move the people throughout the city yet it is regularly slighted in funds to promote rail which has more prestige attached to it.
api 7y ago
The US isn't even really building hyperloop. Even if it gets prototyped, it's not like governments are going to sign up. A generation of Americans were brainwashed that infrastructure equals communism. Nothing will happen in US infrastructure until the baby boomers retire from politics.
Yetanfou 7y ago
Because it is relatively easy to develop new technology, hard to build things in the US where the government can not just decide to build something without lengthy procedures to appropriate funds and property.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

yorwba 7y ago

Discussed 40 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20000034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20000034

Grue3 7y ago
Why is Chuo Shinkansen [1] never mentioned, either in the article or in either of these two discussions? It's an actual intercity maglev line being built right now, so you'd think it would be the first thing to compare to this Chinese train? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%AB%C5%8D_Shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%AB%C5%8D_Shinkansen
- yorwba 7y ago
  It is mentioned in the article: China isn’t the only country experimenting with maglev technology. Japan, a pioneer of high-speed rail, broke its own world record, hitting 603 km/h during a test run of an SC Maglev train in 2015. The country is building a new maglev line between Tokyo and Nagoya, scheduled to open in 2027.

kazinator 7y ago

Even if it goes 300 km/h, and you don't have to arrive at the station 3 hours ahead of time and be subject to all sorts of delays and inconveniences, it will beat air travel.

kazinator 7y ago

> Maglev technology uses strong electromagnets which lift and propel the train forward on a cushion of air. Until a fuse blows. That will be fun at 600 km/h.

Pfhreak 7y ago

How are trains like this powered? Naively, I'd assume electrically rather than with big ol' diesel or jet engines. If that's the case, wouldn't these trains not only be faster but significantly less impactful to the environment? (Assuming, of course, that the energy mixture in the power plants that power the train aren't fossil fuels.)

wolfgang42 7y ago
Even if they use jet engines it's still likely to be better than air travel—airplanes spend a significant amount of their energy just staying in the air.
kuschku 7y ago
In countries with first-world train systems, all trains are already electrically powered anyway. In some countries, long-distance travel is even already 100% renewable https://gruen.deutschebahn.com/en/projects/ice https://gruen.deutschebahn.com/en/projects/ice It’s mostly the US, the UK, and other countries with third-world infrastructure that still heavily rely on diesel in long-distance train travel
- baron_harkonnen 7y ago
  Sorry by that only applies to US passenger rail, US freight rail is an impressively efficient system. US freight trains are diesel-electric allowing them to benefit from the high mechanical efficiency of electric engines coupled with the high energy density of diesel fuel as a power source. The US is second only to china in terms of ton-kilometers of freight transported and moves nearly an order of magnitude more freight by rail than the EU. With the exception of China, which has both massive freight and transport rail systems, most countries tend to trade off between transport of freight. The reason the US's transport rail is awful is because it's freight rail is incredible. And though it may be diesel it is a remarkably efficient use of is (as opposed to the trucks necessary for transport if you don't use trains)
  - kuschku 7y ago

jefurii 7y ago

I was hoping they were working on an ekranoplan but it's a maglev. Still pretty cool tho.

traeregan 7y ago

Straight out of Wakanda.

midhir 7y ago

I did Beijing to Xi'an last September in about 4.5 hours on the regular 320kph trains. To be honest, when you take into account security checks, boarding etc I just don't think it could've been done quicker by plane. Not to mention the train station being central and the experience just being all round more fun!