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Same here.. $1300/mo for family of 4. 10k deductible. Another $2k/year for dental. And then it barely seems to cover any normal stuff.. physical therapy for

by mrlala 7y ago

Same here.. $1300/mo for family of 4. 10k deductible. Another $2k/year for dental. And then it barely seems to cover any normal stuff.. physical therapy for son, still get $1k bill. Dental work for kids, another $1k. And you are totally right all it does is make you think "is my kid really doing that bad that I should take him in?". Fuck having to get down to that mentality... I hate it, but it's the reality of the situation I'm in. If someone is lurking outside our house, we don't think to ourselves.. "Hmm, should I call the police? I don't see a gun, he probably isn't too dangerous.. I'll just wait it out". No, you freakin call the police when you need it and don't have to worry about going bankrupt because of it. Really sick of this backwards ass country we live in with regards to healthcare. I can afford it.. sort of.. but I have no idea how people below my income deal with day to day medical stuff. It's horrifying.

vasilipupkin 7y ago
it's very naive to think that Europeans don't pay for their healthcare. Germans make monthly payments for insurance, etc. Are they that much lower than 1300 a month? according to posters here, basic insurance is 800 dollars a month. Average net disposable income in Germany is 34K.3 a year http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/germany/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/germany/ In the US, it's roughly 45K. So, Germans pay less for insurance, but not that much less, considering it as a % of disposable income. And this is for the basic public option. Many Germans pay for private insurance.
- oneplane 7y ago
  They are much lower, think in the 100 to 150 range. And that's without company discounts if you have a job. On top of that, there is a fixed limited amount you have to pay yourself per year if you actually use it, and everything else is covered.
- RaptorJ 7y ago
  naive calculation from an estimated 8% effective rate[0] says a german family making 60,000 would pay 400/month. Additionally however, no deductibles. [0] https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91971406 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=919714...
  - imtringued 7y ago
    Does that include the employer contribution?
- Someone1234 7y ago
  But they get much better healthcare for that though. In Germany you make your monthly payments and if you ever need anything, it is very cheap or free. In the US you make the same payments and still pay thousands whenever you need care. So what is being paid for in the US? In the German system you pay your money, you get your healthcare, in the US system you pay your money so you get the pleasure of being less over-charged when you need your healthcare?
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    > In the US you make the same payments and still pay thousands whenever you need care. That's an exaggeration. You make it sound like a definite whenever you go to the doctor here. That's far from accurate. It can happen, and way too often does, though.
  - vasilipupkin 7y ago
    in Germany after tax disposable income is lower than in the US and prices for things are generally the same or higher.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  They have Google where I live so we can find out. https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/healthinsurance.html#gkv https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/healthinsurance.html#gkv The public opinion which covers you and non working dependants is a reasonable 720 euros or aprox 800 usd or aprox 15% of wages whichever is less.
  - vasilipupkin 7y ago
    720 euros a month as a % of after tax income is higher in Germany than 1300 in the US ? also, not clear what that public option covers exactly and how many people buy additional private insurance because public option is inadequate? https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/handelsblatt-explains-why-germanys-two-tier-health-insurance-system-is-so-complicated/23582892.html?ticket=ST-2713771-QDcwcC5g63SH2mNip1mH-ap1 https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/handelsblatt-exp...
    - michaelmrose 7y ago
      720 euros or 15% whichever is less. As I type I'm paying 38% of my income before taxes in health care related expenses. I'd take the German option in a second.
- mrlala 7y ago
  >it's very naive to think that Europeans don't pay for their healthcare Christ on a stick will you shut up with this logic. OF COURSE IT'S PAID THROUGH TAXES. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. And you know what? I lived in the UK for 5 years and my son was born there. You have no idea how awesome it is not to have to think about the cost side of medical. Of course I was paying for it through taxes. But there was never a thought in my mind of "well, my son isn't that sick, do I really need it checked out?". Now that I'm back in the US and self employed, every single time someone might have to go to the doctor, all I can think about is how much it's going to cost. I don't want to think that way- but I do- because it's stupidly expensive. And you can keep doing all the comparisons you want to what you think is cheaper but here is the point: It's there when you need it- no matter what. Just lose your job? Have basically no income? Have to go to the doctor, need an ambulance? It's there for you and won't bankrupt you. Being paid through everyone's taxes and being mandatory means it's just part of the economy. Everyone knows they cannot control this cost, and if you aren't making enough income to even pay any descent taxes well that doesn't matter- it's still there for you. But hey.. I can tell you have never been in a situation where medical bills have been killing you. Just wait and you'll change your mind. This whole bullshit of "oh I can choose my provider! I can choose my deductible! yay free america with all it's choices!" turns into complete garbage when you apply it to healthcare.
madengr 7y ago
“If someone is lurking outside our house, we don't think to ourselves.. "Hmm, should I call the police? I don't see a gun, he probably isn't too dangerous.. I'll just wait it out".” I’d actually just grab my gun and wait it out, assuming I wasn’t already carrying it.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  In the US, you only call the cops if someone is likely going to die anyway, and you want a better chance of it not being you or one of your friends. The current training regimes generally do not emphasize de-escalation. Adrenaline-fueled escalations end up killing people that have not committed capital crimes, and likely never would. There is, of course, also the possibility that the cops don't show up in a timely fashion, or don't do anything to help you when they do arrive, or even turn their investigation onto you, and that is not independent of cultural background or apparent skin color. There are reasons for owning and carrying guns in the US beyond hoplophilia.
- mrlala 7y ago
  Uh, ok... because that really has fuck all to do with my comparison?
mnm1 7y ago
I agree with your points, however, many Americans do indeed have to think twice about calling the police in that situation and all probably should. Should you call the police because there's someone outside the house and risk them arresting or shooting you? That's a real question for many Americans. Healthcare isn't the only thing that's broken in this backwards ass country, that's for sure.

by mrlala 7y ago

vasilipupkin 7y ago

it's very naive to think that Europeans don't pay for their healthcare. Germans make monthly payments for insurance, etc. Are they that much lower than 1300 a month? according to posters here, basic insurance is 800 dollars a month. Average net disposable income in Germany is 34K.3 a year http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/germany/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/germany/ In the US, it's roughly 45K. So, Germans pay less for insurance, but not that much less, considering it as a % of disposable income. And this is for the basic public option. Many Germans pay for private insurance.

oneplane 7y ago
They are much lower, think in the 100 to 150 range. And that's without company discounts if you have a job. On top of that, there is a fixed limited amount you have to pay yourself per year if you actually use it, and everything else is covered.
RaptorJ 7y ago
naive calculation from an estimated 8% effective rate[0] says a german family making 60,000 would pay 400/month. Additionally however, no deductibles. [0] https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91971406 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=919714...
- imtringued 7y ago
  Does that include the employer contribution?
Someone1234 7y ago
But they get much better healthcare for that though. In Germany you make your monthly payments and if you ever need anything, it is very cheap or free. In the US you make the same payments and still pay thousands whenever you need care. So what is being paid for in the US? In the German system you pay your money, you get your healthcare, in the US system you pay your money so you get the pleasure of being less over-charged when you need your healthcare?
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  > In the US you make the same payments and still pay thousands whenever you need care. That's an exaggeration. You make it sound like a definite whenever you go to the doctor here. That's far from accurate. It can happen, and way too often does, though.
- vasilipupkin 7y ago
  in Germany after tax disposable income is lower than in the US and prices for things are generally the same or higher.
michaelmrose 7y ago
They have Google where I live so we can find out. https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/healthinsurance.html#gkv https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/healthinsurance.html#gkv The public opinion which covers you and non working dependants is a reasonable 720 euros or aprox 800 usd or aprox 15% of wages whichever is less.
- vasilipupkin 7y ago
  720 euros a month as a % of after tax income is higher in Germany than 1300 in the US ? also, not clear what that public option covers exactly and how many people buy additional private insurance because public option is inadequate? https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/handelsblatt-explains-why-germanys-two-tier-health-insurance-system-is-so-complicated/23582892.html?ticket=ST-2713771-QDcwcC5g63SH2mNip1mH-ap1 https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/handelsblatt-exp...
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    720 euros or 15% whichever is less. As I type I'm paying 38% of my income before taxes in health care related expenses. I'd take the German option in a second.
mrlala 7y ago
>it's very naive to think that Europeans don't pay for their healthcare Christ on a stick will you shut up with this logic. OF COURSE IT'S PAID THROUGH TAXES. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. And you know what? I lived in the UK for 5 years and my son was born there. You have no idea how awesome it is not to have to think about the cost side of medical. Of course I was paying for it through taxes. But there was never a thought in my mind of "well, my son isn't that sick, do I really need it checked out?". Now that I'm back in the US and self employed, every single time someone might have to go to the doctor, all I can think about is how much it's going to cost. I don't want to think that way- but I do- because it's stupidly expensive. And you can keep doing all the comparisons you want to what you think is cheaper but here is the point: It's there when you need it- no matter what. Just lose your job? Have basically no income? Have to go to the doctor, need an ambulance? It's there for you and won't bankrupt you. Being paid through everyone's taxes and being mandatory means it's just part of the economy. Everyone knows they cannot control this cost, and if you aren't making enough income to even pay any descent taxes well that doesn't matter- it's still there for you. But hey.. I can tell you have never been in a situation where medical bills have been killing you. Just wait and you'll change your mind. This whole bullshit of "oh I can choose my provider! I can choose my deductible! yay free america with all it's choices!" turns into complete garbage when you apply it to healthcare.

madengr 7y ago

“If someone is lurking outside our house, we don't think to ourselves.. "Hmm, should I call the police? I don't see a gun, he probably isn't too dangerous.. I'll just wait it out".” I’d actually just grab my gun and wait it out, assuming I wasn’t already carrying it.

logfromblammo 7y ago
In the US, you only call the cops if someone is likely going to die anyway, and you want a better chance of it not being you or one of your friends. The current training regimes generally do not emphasize de-escalation. Adrenaline-fueled escalations end up killing people that have not committed capital crimes, and likely never would. There is, of course, also the possibility that the cops don't show up in a timely fashion, or don't do anything to help you when they do arrive, or even turn their investigation onto you, and that is not independent of cultural background or apparent skin color. There are reasons for owning and carrying guns in the US beyond hoplophilia.
mrlala 7y ago
Uh, ok... because that really has fuck all to do with my comparison?

mnm1 7y ago

I agree with your points, however, many Americans do indeed have to think twice about calling the police in that situation and all probably should. Should you call the police because there's someone outside the house and risk them arresting or shooting you? That's a real question for many Americans. Healthcare isn't the only thing that's broken in this backwards ass country, that's for sure.