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2020 Honda E Has 148 HP and More Than 221 LB-FT
- dv_dt 7y agoI see Honda too has fallen prey to the EV alien styling curse. It really seems that conventional car makers are more susceptible, or is this some sort of intentional thing to limit demand to keep production capacity from being swamped?
- djaychela 7y agoI don't think it's alien (a la BMW), I think it's a really neat piece of future retro design. It's a concept drawing brought to life.
- ndiscussion 7y ago> is this some sort of intentional thing to limit demand A very interesting theory I had not heard. I love Honda. My jaw dropped when I saw that design. Maybe in 5 years :)
- toast0 7y agoThis doesn't look like an alien or a robot as some cars do. It looks like a zero texture 1980s VW golf/rabbit with a dorky grill. Like something out of the Cars movie or a video game with no budget for licenses.
- bproven 7y agoMost of the time I agree that EVs looks stupid (and Honda designs of last 10+ years are not great), BUT to me this loks really cool.
- Grazester 7y agoI came in here to say this car looks great! It's design is very clean which is not something I could say about Honda's current over styled design language.
- dv_dt 7y agoFor some reason the original concept car actually looks pretty good to me, but the finalized version seems much more amorphous blob.
- fitzroy 7y agoI love that the design is vaguely reminiscent of the original Honda Civic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_(first_generation)#/media/File:1973-1978_Honda_Civic_5-door_hatchback_01.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_(first_generation)...
- schwap 7y agoI didn't get alien at all. In fact it reminded me very strongly of an 80s/early 90s VW Golf.
- smacktoward 7y agoI can see the resemblance, but cars of that era were much more angular. (Saturn made a big impression in the late '80s just by adding a little bit of curviness.) I think this is why some people react to the design as 'alien'; it looks almost like an old Golf, but then things like the curved hood and the rounded corners on the headlight/grill assembly push it over into the Uncanny Valley.
- infecto 7y agoAlien, really? Looks like its coming from their roots. To me it looks like a modern retro design of a z600 from the early 70s. Definitely not alien though.
- pluto9 7y agoI wish I could find it now, but I saw a survey/study a while back that showed that the weird looks of EVs are actually a selling point. Apparently one of the benefits of driving an electric vehicle is having everyone know that you drive an electric vehicle.
- jakobegger 7y agoWell, that's a big selling point for most vehicles, electric or not. You want people to recognize your car. Why would anyone buy a BMW if people wouldn't recognize it? I think this is going to be a problem for the Audi e-tron. It looks just like a Q3/Q5. I'm not sure I'd recognize it on the road.
- ptaipale 7y agoI don't think it's alien, in fact it's more nostalgic/retro, brings to my mind the Renault 4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_4
- nmeofthestate 7y agoElectric cars are still an oddity, so I can understand manufacturers employing weird styling like this, because the kind of pioneering people buying a electric city car will want to advertise that they're driving something special. I don't like the look of it at all though.
- dv_dt 7y agoDo you sell more electric cars by emphasizing their oddity, or by emphasizing their regularity?
- nmeofthestate 7y agoAt this stage, for a small car, you probably don't want it looking the same as other normal small cars that are half the price.
- dv_dt 7y agoI think it's interesting that the Nissan Leaf seems to have taken on a more normal appearance that it did at it's introduction. But maybe that's part of the marketing progression, start by grabbing attention and as you expand dial back the attention getting styling and move to a different grouping of customers.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y agoIt's better than the current trend of throwing more facets into the bodywork "because we can".
- dv_dt 7y agoSome facets can add strength to a panel, though so can the correct curves, but I'd agree too many are also a turnoff.
- smacktoward 7y agoWhat's the point of buying an EV if it doesn't let your neighbors know you're better than they are?
- jdietrich 7y agoIt's obviously a retro-modern take on the 1967 Honda N360. For what it's worth, most of the motoring press think that it looks fantastic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_N360 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_N360
- saltcured 7y agoI see two parts to its design. The major form is just a generic small city car, which is clearly the target market for this design. The short wheelbase combined with maximized passenger compartment leaves little room for any other form, whether electric or ICE. As others have mentioned, it looks similar to many other subcompact economy cars. The minor styling to me is not just retro but references the low-budget street racer scene. Flat shading and almost shaved appearance, not unlike second hand cars I would see among teenagers and twenty-somethings, stripped of their OEM trim to cleanse it of the stuffy practicality of its original owners.
- djaychela 7y agoIt's great to see it looking so close to the concept car that was seen not that long ago - it's a great mixture of retro and future Honda, and it's also great to see Honda going for a full electric drivetrain as well as such a great design. Fully Charged got 19 minutes in one, and the video [1] is worth a watch - you can see how quickly it accelerates when he floors it, and he was really impressed with the car, the turning circle and the camera mirrors. I think the bottom line is that most electric cars will be a blast to drive - I'd love to have one as a rally car on single venue airfield-type events in the UK, if I was still competing; it'd be incredible in the forests too, but not sure range would make it possible for anything substantial, alas. [Totally ignoring any other practicalities that are impinging on my daydream about electric rally cars] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEKq8jmckz0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEKq8jmckz0
- lozaning 7y agoIm sad at how much the design and look of the car that they're actually bringing to market deviates from the model at the car show. I _really_ liked how the concept looked, enough to have started investigating the potential of importing one from Europe when they came out. With how the actual car turned out looking, I've since cooled on that. Pic of the original concept: https://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/img/OpIioNgjBiNWWvlU9WYIn68Krcs=/2017/09/12/4db310b2-ea0a-4a15-a877-b197cf68d609/hondaatfrankfurt2017-9.jpg https://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/img/OpIioNgjBiNWWvlU9WYIn68Krcs...
- sxates 7y agoAgreed. So many little details were watered down. Concept was amazing, production seems like such a missed opportunity.
- giobox 7y agoNot road legal in US with camera wing mirrors either as far as I understand. I believe the camera mirrors are standard on all models so can’t be avoided. Current US Department of Transport rules still require new cars to have two traditional physical wing mirrors. I’ve often heard that outside of the 25 year rule (if older than 25 years it’s much simpler), importing cars not sold in the US to the US is basically so hard as to be largely impossible for the most part. Most car enthusiasts patiently wait for their favoured foreign car to hit 25 years old so they can finally get it into the US, even for extremely valuable exotics. There’s lots of websites out there that catalog when foreign models will hit 25 and be eligible for US import.
- Shivetya 7y agoHope the price is in line with that short range, 124 miles and that is probably the more generous testing methods. Is there a market for low hundred mile (two hundred KM or less) vehicles? Perhaps if the price is seriously low as well. Wasn't long ago this range would have been amazing but Telsa basically forced the industry as a whole towards providing true usable range. I am of the opinion that three hundred miles plus is where premium brands must land and mid two hundred is fine for standard cars, for now. The sub 200 club is just not trying or needs to be priced so well to create a market; commuter style.
- djaychela 7y agoI think it depends where you are - if you're in a city, you probably do very low mileage. Yes, of course, there are plenty of people who do 100+ mile commutes or are traveling salespeople, but most of the people I know could have a car with a sub-100 mile range and that would never (or perhaps once a year on an airport run) be a problem. I think we all need to think differently about transportation, and that it's just 'tough' if you have to take a 1-hour break in a long (200 mile+) journey. We've been spoiled by our ability to pollute our way around, and we need to recalibrate that in the same way it's not socially acceptable to litter, drink drive or the many other common behaviours that we now no longer do.
- fffernan 7y agoIt's even better you can get 200mi of range in 35 minutes now with a model 3. Soon 300 miles in 15 minutes will be possible...
- markkanof 7y agoThis definitely isn't a road trip vehicle, but as a daily driver it could be great for a lot of people. I work from home, but my wife drives to work and it's about 9 miles round trip. So she could get to and from work and take a bunch of diversions along the way to run errands and still easily be under 20 miles per day.
- gavia1 7y ago
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- tosser0001 7y agoDoesn't higher torque directly lower fuel efficiency? It seems they could get better range if they weren't trying to make the car a "blast to drive around town". Having a car be a "blast" may be fun for the driver but certainly not anyone else outside the vehicle.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Tepix 7y agoI don't know. I heard that stronger electric motors are not much more expensive and they allow more recuperation during breaking which is why they make sense even if you don't want to accelerate like a race car driver.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- nacs 7y agoThis is an electric car so the 'fuel' is batteries. And the article mentions that there is a "Sport" mode that can be activated that would result in the full torque (otherwise it's at a reduced power to reduce battery usage).
- FigBug 7y agoNot really. Efficiency doesn't change much based on torque. See here for Leaf: https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/4844105739_3795e703f2_b.jpg https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/4844105739_3795e703f2_b... There is very little downside to putting a bigger motor than needed in an EV, other than a bit of extra weight to move around. As long as you don't use that power, (fast acceleration), you won't pay for it. That said, 221 lb-ft of torque isn't very much. They don't say at what rpm that is. Most EVs are electronically torque limited at low rpm. Assuming the peak torque is around 2000 rpm, that's only 84 hp. (My biggest pet peeve is torque without rpm -- it's meaningless!)
- tosser0001 7y agoThis rant about horsepower here has always stuck with me (and this is an 11 year old article): http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/080909 http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/080909 (Unfortunately you need to search for the section "Hold Your Horsepower") I assume the same would apply to electric vehicles. It seems insane to continue the power arms race with cars given the detrimental impact is has.
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- cmrdporcupine 7y agoToo bad we're not getting it in North America. I would buy this in a heart beat, though I'd prefer a slightly larger battery pack. In the winter here my Volt gets down to 50-60km range and I can't make it to work without using the ICE; round trip on days when I can't charge at work would be dicey with this Honda.
- zelon88 7y agoI'm curious how much of the electrical consumption the battery heaters take in the winter time.
- cptskippy 7y agoIt really depends on the climate you're asking about but from what I understand, systems like the Nissan Leaf's hybrid heat pump, can use up to 6% of battery capacity per hour. I'm in the Southern United States and heating vs cooling uses roughly the same amount of power which is a 2-5 mile range penalty. Unless you're pushing up against the maximum range of your vehicle routinely then it's probably a non-issue. I've had my Leaf for several years and I can count the number of times I've gone below 20 miles of range on one hand.
- cmrdporcupine 7y agoRunning the heater isn't so much the issue in winter. It's that cold temperatures dramatically alter the efficiency of the battery. In summer, I get about 90-95km of range off my Volt. In winter, about 50-60. That has little to do with running the heater (I preheat in the garage before I go, use seat and steering wheel heater, and besides, I run AC in the summer).
- zelon88 7y agoRight, but it was my understanding that the lithium batteries have heaters built into them to prevent them from ever reaching a low temperature threshold. You won't have a button to enable/disable this feature and you probably won't be made aware of its presence by any UI elements. This little piece of hardware would likely be powered whenever the battery temperature reaches a certain point, regardless of whether or not the key were present or the charger plugged in. I'd even be willing to wager that if you left your car dead, with 0% available charge, in a cold parking lot overnight the heaters would still be powered for as long as the batteries could physically maintain them without dropping below 3v/c.
- mertd 7y agoDoes using cameras rather than sideview mirrors have any benefits? Surely they add more modes of failure compared to mirrors.
- eMSF 7y agoOf course: aerodynamic benefits. Lower frontal area as well as better drag coefficient. This car has an awful range at highway speeds, so every little bit helps (but you probably still want to drive at a lower speed if you're going far).
- tijn 7y agoYes, aerodynamics. I heard about this when they changed the law to allow cameras as a replacement for mirrors.
- disiplus 7y agoit could, side mirrors take space, and having a digital feed could help in parking.this is a small city car, i can see it being beneficial on our european streets.
- function_seven 7y agoIn addition to the aerodynamic improvement, using cameras eliminates the need to adjust the mirrors for different drivers. Which is probably safer, as fewer drivers will be running around with misaligned mirrors and blind spots with varying sizes.
- la_barba 7y agoYeah, but then you look at a modern car, and there are plenty of electronics that are critical to its functioning, especially safety. We reply on those every-time we drive. The car industry is probably 1000x more risk-averse than your typical SV startup.
- benj111 7y agoTo be fair I don't think the typical SV startup is risk averse at all. So any display of risk aversion would be infinitely more risk averse. I'll return to my pedantic cave now.
- davesmith1983 7y agoI've got an old Diesel Opel Astra which should have been in the scrap yard about 200,000 miles ago. The reason I haven't bought anything newer and generally haven't been that interested is that most of the new cars look awful and aren't that much better than what I have got even (mileage, fuel economy cost). This looks like an old Golf Polo from the 1980s, which look pretty cool these days. Pity it isn't more angular.
- auiya 7y agoWhy can't Honda just normalize the EV drive train by releasing their top selling Accord and Civic as an EV option? Why does it have to be repackaged into some ugly little toad of a car?
- larrydag 7y agoI'm guessing it's due to factory retooling. I imagine the frame, chassis and obviously powerplant of a EV is much different than the ICE equivalents.
- gavia1 7y agoThe platform on which the current generation of cars are built often does not lend itself nicely to electrification. You have transmission tunnels, engine bays with large firewalls, exhaust tunnels, suspension and braking systems designed for chassis with certain weight distributions. Ultimately, you end up designing a new platform with electrification from the get go.
- auiya 7y agoThat's fair. But shouldn't they at least get their top design teams on the case? The styling on this car looks like the design team just phoned it in.
- gavia1 7y agoIt costs billions of USD to design a new platform. VW spent $60 billion USD on their MQB platform [1]. 1. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vw-could-sell-50bn-mqb-platform https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vw-could-sell-50...
- auiya 7y agoRight, so why not re-purpose as much of an existing, proven platform as you can?
- 7y ago
- devy 7y agoThis is presumably a VW e-Golf competitor and it seems to be European only model (to meet the ever increasing restriction on emission standards there). The Standard 35kwh battery option is not impressive at all as Fiat's compiance EV 500e already achieving and or exceeding those ranges (yes I drove one myself.) The Korean auto makers have already made a strong push to longer range EVs like Hyundai Kona EV, Kia Niro EV, all are in the range of 240miles. The EV market outlook post 2020 is going to be massive, all thanks to Tesla's demonstration of how you can make an EV the best possible vehicle with technology and dedication.
- Ninn 7y agoThis looks like it's the size of an e-UP!, not a e-Golf or ID.3? The Golf size is around 2 classes up from the UP
- gavia1 7y agoThe e-Golf is a compromise. It is very difficult to add electrification to a vehicle platform built for traditional ICE cars. There is almost no space under the floors for the cells, and you can't put them up front either because the additional weight over an engine and ancillaries would create a car with a 70:30 weight distribution. This would make the car handle terribly, cause excessive tire wear and fishtailing under braking.
- Theodores 7y agoThe battery isn't supposed to be impressive. It is not for travelling salesmen or Americans. Honda have done their research and they know how far most people drive most of the time. It is also worth remembering that many in their target audience are in two car households. So there is still the big car to visit the grandparents with. This is not an e-Golf competitor. The e-Golf is a compliance car that is hard to actually buy. Dealers don't stock them. This car is designed from the ground up as an EV, it is not an ICE car where the gearbox has been replaced with batteries - that is what the e-Golf is. The EV options are not actually that huge post 2020. Most people are not in the Tesla price bracket. If you watch any car show there will be plenty of models that are new and do not have an EV option. There are grand promises from all of the different makes but when it comes down to it, in the UK (target market for the Honda) there is just Tesla that can deliver a nice new car to your specifications in four weeks. Other than that you can get a Nissan Leaf with the smaller battery pack in four weeks. For anything else you are looking at 3 to 6 months. The Korean wonders are even further out, eighteen months for them. That means 2020.
- elchief 7y agoYour all-electric has to be your best looking car model 200 km is not enough
- jefurii 7y agoI love that the featured car has the same lime-green body and black hood as Mr. Bean's Mini Cooper.
- cujo 7y agoAnd the available-right-now Nissan Leaf has 147 HP and 236 lb-ft of torque AND gets 150 miles on a full charge. Price guesstimates put these cars in a similar range. I'm glad more of these cars are getting made, but this Honda is all about style. There's nothing new "under the hood".
- peteradio 7y agoStyle? Lol did you look at the picture, looks like a turtle.
- cujo 7y agoI know what it looks like. You can have your opinion on it, but the primary reason this vehicle is making noise is for how it looks. That's style.
- jakobegger 7y agoIt looks like a Golf 2, which was a very very popular car here in Europe.
- giobox 7y agoIt also evokes the classic lines of many hugely popular 70s/80s hatchbacks. Huge numbers of people have much affection for the hatchbacks of this era, especially the so called “hot hatches” that many European brands are famous for - cars like the 205 GTI etc. I think Honda nailed the styling on this. Worth also pointing out that those camera wing mirrors, while legal in most European markets, still aren’t road legal in the US, I imagine the Department of Transport will have to relax the rule that all cars sold in the US have two physical wing mirrors pretty soon. I personally find this attempt at modern reinterpretation of an old design far more successful than any of the Mini models BMW has done.
- benj111 7y ago"Honda is all about style" Well Fiat are doing ok with the 500, and BMW with the 'Mini', so I'm surprised its taken them so long to try it.
- bitcurious 7y agoI don't entirely understand the market for the "city car." Living in the city, the only times I need my car are when I leave it. Maybe half of those trips wouldn't work with this car's range.
- FreedomToCreate 7y agoAgree with this. Whenever I go to a city, I tend to leave my car in burbs and public transport in (Cal train when going to SF and Go Train when going to Toronto). Bring a car into the city is a hassle with parking and associated costs. Everyone I know whose recently moved to the city, have usually ditched they cars.
- hangonhn 7y agoI think it depends on the city. I've lived in the Bay Area, New England, and Dallas. For NYC and SF that's definitely but for Dallas it is not. NYC and SF almost go out of their way to make cars difficult. But Dallas was developed with cars in mind and is rather weak in public transit. I can see a car like this working OK in Dallas, depending on the availability of chargers.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- giobox 7y agoIt’s sounds better in marketing materials than “commuter/groceries car” which is basically what most of these things are likely intended for. I suspect a staggering percentage of these will end up as 2nd cars for commuting/school runs/oh crap I’m out of milk etc. It’s not exactly crazy-affordable, affluent two car families are surely a huge part of the target market here. The limited range isn’t really an issue for most in the context of a 2nd car either. There’s rarely anything all that “sporty” about giant “S”UVs either, one doesn’t have to take the marketing label too literally...
- ben7799 7y agoThis thing would totally work for me, and I get both the Honda "small is better" ethos & the design aesthetic. I live in the Suburbs, my driving is usually ~10 miles a day on work days. There are no busses that are helpful for commuting. I often have to pick up a kid or do an errand that makes bicycle commuting tough. There's charging at work. But even so I could go a week or more without a charge. My use case is light enough I could probably get by on just doing slow 120V charging without upgrading the wiring in the garage most of the time. Long trips that exceed the range of this or the leaf are probably < 10 days a year for me. There's got to be lots of other drivers who are in the same boat but don't really get it/understand.
- arthurfm 7y agoFor some reason the centre console has an HDMI port [1][2]. Does anyone know what this is used for? The lack of any USB-C ports is also a strange omission for a brand new car, especially when many of Honda's rivals include at least one USB-C port on their new cars. [1] https://i.imgur.com/TlvQQ5h.jpg https://i.imgur.com/TlvQQ5h.jpg [2] https://youtu.be/pEKq8jmckz0?t=313 https://youtu.be/pEKq8jmckz0?t=313
- Mikeb85 7y agoWhy would you need a USB-C port when most USB-C cables have a USB-A connection at one end? The HDMI port seems odd though.
- asavadatti 7y agoThats a chicken and egg problem. I would like to see more USB C ports on purchases that are supposed to last a long time
- benj111 7y ago"powered by a rear-mounted electric motor delivering approximately 150 PS (110 kW)" If like me you wondered what a PS was "Pferdestärke - German for horsepower, equal to metric horsepower and sometimes referred to as 'continental horsepower'" http://www.statman.info/conversions/power.html http://www.statman.info/conversions/power.html
- antonios 7y ago> It will have enough juice for more than 124 miles Pretty low, even for city standards.
- ChuckMcM 7y agoThey seem to have learned a lot from the feedback on Nissan's Leaf. Exciting times.
- tracker1 7y agoI don't think it looks very good... looks like an early 70's euro hatchback mostly.
- TMWNN 7y agoIn Arthur Hailey's novel Wheels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheels_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheels_(novel) , about the auto industry, an executive at a fictional US car company suggests building a very homely city car. When others criticize its looks, he says that if it's inexpensive and practical, people won't care.
- tracker1 7y agoprobably true enough... there's also probably at least half the people out there that might like it. I drive a car I bet about half the people out there hate anyway. To each their on on it.
- lewiscollard 7y agoHngggg...as someone that is not so big on modern cars (my background in cars defines that loosely as "post-1995") I've gotta say that is ADORABLE. It reminds me more than a little of the original Mini 1275GT! I can't remember the last time I saw a new car whose styling I liked. From my perspective, 221 lb/ft of torque is only slightly, as in single digits, less than the legendary Toyota Celica GT-Four (ST-205) from the 90s, and in such a cute car! If it's as small and light as it looks, that could be an awful lot of fun. :)