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Of course they do. Their 3 advantages are: 1) motors 2) batteries 3) continuing vertical integration (Elon points this out) So this is 2+3.

by Zhenya 7y ago

bwb 7y ago
Ya my first thought was duh... single the biggest impact on their business it seems like. Kinda like Apple peeling off component after component.
- Traster 7y ago
  Apple is quite different though, since it didn't start peeling off components until it was stable. Tesla is trying to solve every single difficult problem involved in producing a fully autonomous electric vehicle at production volume. Each individual part of that sentence is a very difficult problem to solve, so why are they wasting time on batteries when they haven't got volume or AD fixed yet?
makomk 7y ago
Those are certainly the things they've been claiming as their advantages, but the battery tech is mostly bought in and their original in-house motor tech has basically nothing in common with the motors used in the Model 3.
- stcredzero 7y ago
  Those are certainly the things they've been claiming as their advantages, but the battery tech is mostly bought in The battery pack, control systems, and cooling systems are something you can get really right, or quite wrong. The cells themselves are important, of course. Given that they're a cost driver, a vertical integration move would be to bring them in house. Even if Tesla ultimately fails at cars, it might still have a future as a battery pack manufacturer.
  - m-ee 7y ago
    Cells manufacturing is a totally different animal, and I wonder if Tesla is willing to burn money long enough to get as good as Panasonic and the other big players. Being colocated with Panasonic at the gigafactory is a huge leg up, but its still a very long term play that I'm not sure matches up with Elon's patience or Tesla's cash reserves.
- tw04 7y ago
  >their original in-house motor tech has basically nothing in common with the motors used in the Model 3. What point are you trying to make here? The model 3 uses a different motor because the target price band and performance requirements are different. If you buy a Cruze from GM it comes with a cheaper, less performant motor than a CTS-V.
  - maxerickson 7y ago
    They are saying that if you don't put your different motor in your mass market product, then your mass market product isn't using your motor as a differentiator.
    - zaroth 7y ago
      The Tesla motor(s) that Tesla puts in the Model 3 are considered the best in the field and significantly better in terms of performance and efficiency than the competitors. This has been shown through tear-downs as well as in the end result. I’m really not sure what the OP is trying to say. The TM3 motor is absolutely a differentiator.
    - tw04 7y ago
      I guess define "different motor" - both the Model 3 and Model S/X motors were designed in-house by Tesla. It's not like they're ordering Model 3 motors from some Chinese ODM that makes the same motor for Tesla and Toyota and GM and Nissan and insert company. The Ford Mustang and Chevy Camaro both have a V8. They both consider their motors differentiators due to the specifics of THEIR V8 implementation. Just because other companies might be using the same basic design principles doesn't mean that their specific implementation of that design isn't a differentiator.
      - makomk 7y ago
        The Model 3 motor works on a fundamentally different principle to the ones in all Tesla's previous cars, but it's very similar to the motor technology used by all the other modern electric cars. The best analogy I can come up with is that it's like a company which has only produced diesel cars claiming their engine experience gives them an advantage over all the other car manufacturers who've been producing petrol cars for a while when announcing their first petrol car. (It's not a perfect analogy - a car manufacturer which did that could probably reuse a lot more of their existing engine tech and experience than Tesla could.) More specifically, Tesla's big advantage was that they had very sophisticated drive technology for using AC induction motors in electric vehicles. That's even where their name came from - this kind of motor was invented by Nikola Tesla originally. No-one else had this tech. With the Model 3, they abandoned this in favour of permanent magnet brushless motors very much like the ones all the other manufacturers were already using. Because of the very different way in which those motors work, they require completely different drive algorithms, pose entirely new engineering and materials challenges to manufacture, and give very different perforrmance characteristics. Tesla basically took all of the motor work that was supposed to give them a headstart, abandoned it, and started almost from scratch where the other manufacturers were years ago.
- xbmcuser 7y ago
  Tesla is buying the batteries but make the battery pack themselves. For the China factory they are planning to use Chinese batteries for the packs.

Of course they do. Their 3 advantages are: 1) motors 2) batteries 3) continuing vertical integration (Elon points this out) So this is 2+3.

by Zhenya 7y ago

Of course they do. Their 3 advantages are: 1) motors 2) batteries 3) continuing vertical integration (Elon points this out) So this is 2+3.

bwb 7y ago

Ya my first thought was duh... single the biggest impact on their business it seems like. Kinda like Apple peeling off component after component.

Traster 7y ago
Apple is quite different though, since it didn't start peeling off components until it was stable. Tesla is trying to solve every single difficult problem involved in producing a fully autonomous electric vehicle at production volume. Each individual part of that sentence is a very difficult problem to solve, so why are they wasting time on batteries when they haven't got volume or AD fixed yet?

makomk 7y ago

Those are certainly the things they've been claiming as their advantages, but the battery tech is mostly bought in and their original in-house motor tech has basically nothing in common with the motors used in the Model 3.

stcredzero 7y ago
Those are certainly the things they've been claiming as their advantages, but the battery tech is mostly bought in The battery pack, control systems, and cooling systems are something you can get really right, or quite wrong. The cells themselves are important, of course. Given that they're a cost driver, a vertical integration move would be to bring them in house. Even if Tesla ultimately fails at cars, it might still have a future as a battery pack manufacturer.
- m-ee 7y ago
  Cells manufacturing is a totally different animal, and I wonder if Tesla is willing to burn money long enough to get as good as Panasonic and the other big players. Being colocated with Panasonic at the gigafactory is a huge leg up, but its still a very long term play that I'm not sure matches up with Elon's patience or Tesla's cash reserves.
tw04 7y ago
>their original in-house motor tech has basically nothing in common with the motors used in the Model 3. What point are you trying to make here? The model 3 uses a different motor because the target price band and performance requirements are different. If you buy a Cruze from GM it comes with a cheaper, less performant motor than a CTS-V.
- maxerickson 7y ago
  They are saying that if you don't put your different motor in your mass market product, then your mass market product isn't using your motor as a differentiator.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    The Tesla motor(s) that Tesla puts in the Model 3 are considered the best in the field and significantly better in terms of performance and efficiency than the competitors. This has been shown through tear-downs as well as in the end result. I’m really not sure what the OP is trying to say. The TM3 motor is absolutely a differentiator.
  - tw04 7y ago
    I guess define "different motor" - both the Model 3 and Model S/X motors were designed in-house by Tesla. It's not like they're ordering Model 3 motors from some Chinese ODM that makes the same motor for Tesla and Toyota and GM and Nissan and insert company. The Ford Mustang and Chevy Camaro both have a V8. They both consider their motors differentiators due to the specifics of THEIR V8 implementation. Just because other companies might be using the same basic design principles doesn't mean that their specific implementation of that design isn't a differentiator.
    - makomk 7y ago
      The Model 3 motor works on a fundamentally different principle to the ones in all Tesla's previous cars, but it's very similar to the motor technology used by all the other modern electric cars. The best analogy I can come up with is that it's like a company which has only produced diesel cars claiming their engine experience gives them an advantage over all the other car manufacturers who've been producing petrol cars for a while when announcing their first petrol car. (It's not a perfect analogy - a car manufacturer which did that could probably reuse a lot more of their existing engine tech and experience than Tesla could.) More specifically, Tesla's big advantage was that they had very sophisticated drive technology for using AC induction motors in electric vehicles. That's even where their name came from - this kind of motor was invented by Nikola Tesla originally. No-one else had this tech. With the Model 3, they abandoned this in favour of permanent magnet brushless motors very much like the ones all the other manufacturers were already using. Because of the very different way in which those motors work, they require completely different drive algorithms, pose entirely new engineering and materials challenges to manufacture, and give very different perforrmance characteristics. Tesla basically took all of the motor work that was supposed to give them a headstart, abandoned it, and started almost from scratch where the other manufacturers were years ago.
xbmcuser 7y ago
Tesla is buying the batteries but make the battery pack themselves. For the China factory they are planning to use Chinese batteries for the packs.