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The idea that you could change the world for the better with electric private transport appears be an American trait and Musk is convinced by this, with frequen

by vr46 7y ago

The idea that you could change the world for the better with electric private transport appears be an American trait and Musk is convinced by this, with frequent attacks of mass public transit. A better future doesn’t involve better cars. Cheaper or more efficient use of energy is simply going to increase energy consumption.

theredbox 7y ago
The view is US centric but how many completely new subways did Europe build ? And how long did it take ? You cant retrofit subways to existing cities and the only country that does not care about spending billions and human lives is China.
- micheljansen 7y ago
  You can, but it’s painful. Amsterdam has just completed a new subway line that crosses under the entire city. It took about 15 years of construction (after 15 years of political discussion and planning), cost about 3,1 billion Euro and damaged some historical buildings because Amsterdam is essentially built on a swamp (no humans were harmed though). Still, this is a city that’s many years older than even the oldest city in the US. It can be done.
- semi-extrinsic 7y ago
  > You cant retrofit subways to existing cities How many million people lived in London, Paris, Moscow or Tokyo when they started building their respective subways? The answer is 2.5 million, 3.3 million, 3.8 million, and 8 million, respectively. And all of those were started before 1930, so it was actually possible with the technology 100 years ago.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  The view that is US centric is "Nothing will work / we're unique" when it comes to questions of mass transit (and other things).
api 7y ago
Energy consumption doesn't matter as much if we can get it from things other than fossil fuel. EVs make that a lot easier.
- naravara 7y ago
  >Energy consumption doesn't matter as much if we can get it from things other than fossil fuel. EVs make that a lot easier. Yeah it does. Renewables take up tons of acreage and nuclear has issues with waste management, sourcing of raw materials (for developing countries), and being able to adjust to scale with variable power consumption.
  - api 7y ago
    https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/AreaRequired1000.jpg https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/wp-content/uploads/2009/0...
- vr46 7y ago
  Do you have evidence that fossil fuel can provide 0% of energy anytime soon? I am concerned that this is not even remotely the case.
jcims 7y ago
I've seen this sentiment a few times on HN, particularly with stories related to Tesla. It's such an extreme leap that I, in full transparency, often wonder if it's being made in good faith. The US has over 250 million privately owned vehicles that use an internal combustion engine for locomotion. We have 4 million miles of roads and the average commute is 25 minutes. How exactly would you structure a mass public transit system to accommodate this demand?
- ProfessorLayton 7y ago
  A bit tangental but I would start with overhauling the U.S' exclusionary housing policies that kneecap mass public transit systems. Unfortunately this is a political problem more than a technical one, not exactly Silicon Valley's wheelhouse.
- vr46 7y ago
  I’m a huge fan of America. But if you can scale private transit, why can’t you scale public transit? The political will and people are not behind it. Yet. Mass transit isn’t there to replace private transit, it's there to do things that private transit cannot offer. American life is largely constructed around the motor vehicle, it will take a long time to deconstruct that. Which ought to be the real aim, not to make a better horse/donkey/car.
la_barba 7y ago
>The idea that you could change the world for the better with electric private transport appears be an American trait and Musk is convinced by this, What has being "American" got to do with anything? Are electric vehicles not useful elsewhere? I'm not American and I think what hes doing is a great idea. >A better future doesn’t involve better cars. Cheaper or more efficient use of energy is simply going to increase energy consumption. Why do you assume your vision is what everyone wants or should want? Musk is doing something he believes in rather than simply talk about it. Why the needless hate?
- vr46 7y ago
  You don’t have to be American to have a US-centric view. Musk wasn’t born there either. The view is very dominant.

by vr46 7y ago

theredbox 7y ago

The view is US centric but how many completely new subways did Europe build ? And how long did it take ? You cant retrofit subways to existing cities and the only country that does not care about spending billions and human lives is China.

micheljansen 7y ago
You can, but it’s painful. Amsterdam has just completed a new subway line that crosses under the entire city. It took about 15 years of construction (after 15 years of political discussion and planning), cost about 3,1 billion Euro and damaged some historical buildings because Amsterdam is essentially built on a swamp (no humans were harmed though). Still, this is a city that’s many years older than even the oldest city in the US. It can be done.
semi-extrinsic 7y ago
> You cant retrofit subways to existing cities How many million people lived in London, Paris, Moscow or Tokyo when they started building their respective subways? The answer is 2.5 million, 3.3 million, 3.8 million, and 8 million, respectively. And all of those were started before 1930, so it was actually possible with the technology 100 years ago.
FireBeyond 7y ago
The view that is US centric is "Nothing will work / we're unique" when it comes to questions of mass transit (and other things).

api 7y ago

Energy consumption doesn't matter as much if we can get it from things other than fossil fuel. EVs make that a lot easier.

naravara 7y ago
>Energy consumption doesn't matter as much if we can get it from things other than fossil fuel. EVs make that a lot easier. Yeah it does. Renewables take up tons of acreage and nuclear has issues with waste management, sourcing of raw materials (for developing countries), and being able to adjust to scale with variable power consumption.
- api 7y ago
  https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/AreaRequired1000.jpg https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/wp-content/uploads/2009/0...
vr46 7y ago
Do you have evidence that fossil fuel can provide 0% of energy anytime soon? I am concerned that this is not even remotely the case.

jcims 7y ago

I've seen this sentiment a few times on HN, particularly with stories related to Tesla. It's such an extreme leap that I, in full transparency, often wonder if it's being made in good faith. The US has over 250 million privately owned vehicles that use an internal combustion engine for locomotion. We have 4 million miles of roads and the average commute is 25 minutes. How exactly would you structure a mass public transit system to accommodate this demand?

ProfessorLayton 7y ago
A bit tangental but I would start with overhauling the U.S' exclusionary housing policies that kneecap mass public transit systems. Unfortunately this is a political problem more than a technical one, not exactly Silicon Valley's wheelhouse.
vr46 7y ago
I’m a huge fan of America. But if you can scale private transit, why can’t you scale public transit? The political will and people are not behind it. Yet. Mass transit isn’t there to replace private transit, it's there to do things that private transit cannot offer. American life is largely constructed around the motor vehicle, it will take a long time to deconstruct that. Which ought to be the real aim, not to make a better horse/donkey/car.

la_barba 7y ago

>The idea that you could change the world for the better with electric private transport appears be an American trait and Musk is convinced by this, What has being "American" got to do with anything? Are electric vehicles not useful elsewhere? I'm not American and I think what hes doing is a great idea. >A better future doesn’t involve better cars. Cheaper or more efficient use of energy is simply going to increase energy consumption. Why do you assume your vision is what everyone wants or should want? Musk is doing something he believes in rather than simply talk about it. Why the needless hate?

vr46 7y ago
You don’t have to be American to have a US-centric view. Musk wasn’t born there either. The view is very dominant.