8 ms·
Is this sort of how they're trying to make a Tesla without Musk? By just leaving one by one and recreating the company without Musk, instead of just firing him?
by atonse 7y ago
Is this sort of how they're trying to make a Tesla without Musk? By just leaving one by one and recreating the company without Musk, instead of just firing him?
Really curious as to what the motivations might be here for all these people to leave (apart from the monetary benefits of joining another "Tesla" even earlier).
- gibolt 7y agoMost Tesla employees want to work on EVs, and it is a natural inclination for employees to move towards newer, shinier projects and want to switch company at some point. Lucid probably makes that choice super easy, since you'll be working with familiar faces. The early employees are likely the best to create a new electric car company, since they were the foundation of the current industry leader.
- atonse 7y agoI agree – I'm just wondering what the draw is. Maybe Tesla has gone into maintenance mode with refinements to their cars, and these folks are fundamentally builders and want to build something radically different. But when you look at it, they're building another Model S.
- rhacker 7y agoFrom my point of view that means it's either pay or people issues. Personally I don't like starting over on APIs etc.. if you ever switched from a company that has a foundation to one that doesn't you end up with employees that say things like - oh darn we actually had a really good X at company Y. At least they can start over and build with fewer mistakes, but hitting the same tasks again is often annoying.
- gibolt 7y agoI'd guess it is the opposite. Some people like startups because nothing is defined, everything is new. Having the option to build something you liked is better than being forced to use what is already used 'because it exists'.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ForHackernews 7y agoTesla is renowned for having lousy labor conditions. I'm not sure how much that filters up to upper management, but I could see it being a factor if you want more work/life balance at your job.
- karthikb 7y agoProbably more like a natural time to leave - Model 3 is past the initial hell and shipping more regularly, etc. And in this process have learned how to take a vehicle from end to end. So instead of working on a brand new car inside of Tesla, why not do the same thing on their own with a greater ownership stake? Not always the best decision, but usually the kind of thought process one goes though.
- semi-extrinsic 7y agoCould also be that despite being past Model 3 production hell, they are still not profitable ($700M loss in Q1 '19), and they are betting the farm on autonomous somehow turning that into a profit? Color me skeptical, but if I was an engineer at Tesla I'd be looking for an exit as well.
- jsight 7y agoOTOH, FCF has turned positive for at least the trailing 12 months, and they are guiding for it to remain positive for the remainder of the year. For sure, there are many struggles that continue for Tesla, but I'm not sure that a new startup building cars from scratch is a way out of that. It looks like jumping out of the pot and into an inferno to me. But the sorts of people doing this seem to be the ones that might enjoy the challenge involved.
- londons_explore 7y agoWonder if they could persuade Musk himself to jump ship... After all, they're going to need a visionary...
- notfromhere 7y agowhy would they go and ruin their company like that
- bdcravens 7y ago> they're going to need a visionary Not necessarily. Sometimes you have a well defined problem and your advantage is in better execution.
- mdorazio 7y agoIt's also worth noting that 1) Tesla burns out employees at all levels very quickly with shitty working conditions and 2) Tesla's stock is not doing super well anymore, so total expected comp isn't that great in comparison to other options. Ex-Tesla employees have flocked to a variety of EV startups (Faraday Future, Elio, Lucid, Rivian, etc.) with varying levels of success for a while now. It's kind of like an incubator for EV engineers.
- toomuchtodo 7y agoIt should be noted Faraday Future is borderline defunct at the moment. Great point that Tesla is an EV innovation incubator. High praise.
- saagarjha 7y agoApparently the Wikipedia article on Faraday Future uses the word "struggling" in the very first sentence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_Future https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_Future
- T-A 7y agoMusk aside, starting a new EV company is worth up to $1.5 billion in federal tax credits + a few thousand per vehicle sold in state tax credits, so there is that.
- simonebrunozzi 7y agoANY new EV company gets these credits? Really?
- gibolt 7y agoThat is the purpose of the credit, to spur new companies and innovation from old ones.
- zaroth 7y agoAny one that can actually sell cars to the public that is. There is a good argument to be made that the cap should have been US wide and not per-company, because now it’s incentivizing late-movers who didn’t have to carry the initial higher R&D burden. There’s even a small chance this might actually be amended by Congress. But on the flip side, a per company cap diversifies the knowledge and experience and drives increased competition, even if it is late to the game.
- jsight 7y agoIt is actually quite a bit more than that, as the figure above only accounts for sales of the first 200k units. The phaseout after that is time-based rather than unit based. The real figure for Tesla (for example) will probably be closer to 2.25 billion. But all of this goes to the consumer in the form of a demand side tax non-refundable tax credit. It will not help if they fail to get into production due to liquidity problems. Many businesses have failed trying to get to that point.
- WhompingWindows 7y agoEmployees leave companies for numerous reasons all the time in all industries. Better pay, better quality of life, better opportunities, lower stress, novelty, innovation - there are many reasons. I think Tesla just has a microscope over it at all times which makes it seem worse than other companies.
- bdcravens 7y agoI went into a bit more detail in a parent comment, but perhaps they feel Tesla under Musk has lost its way. Too many features, too much luxury, and a CEO that has a huge second love. Many want to change the world with EVs, not work for a messiah figure or a Hooli.
- myrandomcomment 7y agoOnce again, the car the Lucid is making is WAY MORE luxurious than the Tesla. Just look at their site. https://lucidmotors.com https://lucidmotors.com
- asteli 7y agoIt's kind of interesting to look at the marketing photographs on their site. Very keyed to the masculine eye. Photo next to a military cargo aircraft's landing gear. Two beautiful women in and next to the car, but only as passengers. They come with the car, but they won't be driving it.
- erikpukinskis 7y agoThe thing is, once the Pickup is “pencils down” on the design, Tesla will be free to circle back to an interior refresh on Model S and X. (1) This will coincide roughly with when Tesla claims their self driving taxi network product will come online. Once Model Y and Model 3 are globally available at scale, those lines cover the budget market. Tesla will be free to jack up the S and X prices into the mid $100s and spend that money on interiors. People will use ride sharing revenues to help cover the higher monthly payment. Even if the autonomy part is delayed, this next generation of interiors, led by Lucid, is supporting Lyft and Uber drivers to make those higher payments, with premium vehicle ride share rates. (1) Semi won’t need consumer design resources. And 3 and Y can be in design freeze for a while. Those teams will be 100% about production efficiency for a decade or so. So after Pickup, what else can Franz work on besides Roadster and S & X interior luxury? Franz had a fun to his head when designing the first Model S. With the freedom to start over and the needs of of autonomous taxi services at front of mind, I think Franz could do a lot. And depending on how Pickup goes we might see a more radical styling on the Model S. The 3/Y can be the conservative models, S/X inevitably have to be about passion.
- dv_dt 7y agoThere are a lot of people who might prefer greenfield work vs working in a more established framework - and Tesla with larger production lines and existing vehicles and technology would likely have many more areas of design or development freedom constrained. Improving within a known framework may also engage a different set of skills and sensibilities, and people good at one may not be good at the other. Overall, it's probably better for the world that more and more people who trained under Tesla, are spreading the knowledge of how to build EVs.
- my_usernam3 7y agoYeah I also buy into this idea, and don't think this should be read into as much as other people ITT are. Even the article doesn't try to stir up much drama, which seems to be unusual for reporting these days.
- foldingmoney 7y agoElectrek is a Musk/Tesla fanboy blog so no surprise that they don't portray this as a negative for Tesla.
- erikpukinskis 7y agoYes, and a lot of people realize that starting a company and building a strong team is a good way to get an excellent comp offer, as a group, in an aquihire. This is a known strategy on HN, recommended by none other than Paul Graham. Reasonable expectation of utility for a talented group or individual.