10 ms·

Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

172 points by realitygrill 7y ago

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
You might almost think it was intended to provoke a reaction. So much so it smells like a false flag op. They were left pretty much alone for about 12 hours, while they broke windows and shutters, since the first reports of broken windows came last night. To justify the "entirely necessary but unavoidable" reaction coming soon?
- dmix 7y ago
  The last time the HK police used force there was a massive backlash and the police were angry the government put them in that position to take the brunt of the people's anger. There are very good non-conspiratorial reasons for the police to take their time, this time around. Plus there's always a subset of protestors who just want to destroy property and take a more aggressive stance (usually the younger ones), regardless of the predictable way it will be spun by opponents and perceived by the more moderate public. Not every act of violence or property destruction can be blamed on police provocateurs.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    The last time police used force they used tear gas and rubber bullets, without warning, against an entirely peaceful demonstration. Like nkoren said previous demonstrations have been extra careful to consistently keep it peaceful. This time they wait until the protest has effectively finished trashing the legislature, then go in with tear gas and have a big sign stuck on riot shields of "WARNING: TEAR SMOKE". Both police and protest seem to be taking a dramatically different approach. The peaceful demonstrations that have continued appear separate. Maybe it is as presented, but it sure makes me suspicious given history.
    - dmix 7y ago
      Sure there’s will always be people that are suspicious which is a good thing. More eyes watching. But doesn’t mean it’s true or more plausible than alternative theories. The evidence you presented could be spun either way.
  - loyukfai 7y ago
    Besides wanting to destroy property and take a more aggressive stance, there is a prevalent atmosphere of doomsday feeling among the protesting youth. 3 suicides over the last few days can be associated to the current unrest. I wouldn't say it's all the government's fault but it cannot be overlooked either. They are desperate, while whether the current realities warrant that feeling is debatable, one cannot deny its existence.
    - Ill_ban_myself 7y ago
      God bless the grass that grows through cement. It's green and it's tender and it's easily bent. But after a while it lifts up its head, For the grass is living and the stone is dead God bless the grass that's gentle and low, Its roots they are deep and its will is to grow. And God bless the truth, the friend of the poor, And the wild grass growing at the poor man's door.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- realitygrill 7y ago
  That seems to be a common opinion on the ground, apparently.
- nkoren 7y ago
  False flag op was my instant reaction as well. The original protestors were fastidious in their civic-mindedness. These are not them. These protestors are producing made-to-order photos for the Chinese press. When China steps in to "restore order", this will be why.
  - vkou 7y ago
    > The original protestors were fastidious in their civic-mindedness. General question: What is your process for determining whether or not a protest you read about is peaceful, fastidiously civic-minded, or if it is just a bunch of hooligans who want to break windows? How do you apply that process for determining the nature of protests in your local city? I ask, because I've never been to, seen, heard of, or read about a protest whose nature was not in dispute by conflicting media. The side that a publication supports is nearly always framed as a group of angels, while the opposing side frames it as a bunch of savages, that were rightfully put in their place by a police response.
    - tempguy9999 7y ago
      > What is your process for determining whether or not a protest you read about is peaceful, fastidiously civic-minded, or if it is just a bunch of hooligans who want to break windows? Whether they smash windows and vandalise, or not.
      - IAmEveryone 7y ago
        Or, you know, throwing tea into a harbour.
        tempguy9999 7y ago
        I'm not up on US history really, but tea was expensive at the time and it was other people's tea being destroyed, so that might well be vandalism. Happy to be corrected though.
      - vkou 7y ago
- loyukfai 7y ago
  Maybe. But there was also a mass peaceful demonstration held concurrently (more or less for the same cause), the protesters waited till most of those demonstrators had left, or enough of them who left behind to support them, before action. One really needs to look at the whole picture to gain some perspective on this recent "sudden" raise of civil disobedience in HK.
- ggggtez 7y ago
  Not sure what part you think is a false flag. Hong Kong has a history of protests against China. That would basically have been HK government admitting that Chinese law supersedes HK law. Could you imagine the UK passing a law that Brussels has jurisdiction over UK citizens? The brexiters would go absolutely nuts. HK has a history of resisting Chinese attempts to impose One China on them.
  - Tijdreiziger 7y ago
    > Could you imagine the UK passing a law that Brussels has jurisdiction over UK citizens? This is already the case, right? Per Wikipedia: "A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously."
    - IAmEveryone 7y ago
      Yeah. But, in OP’s defense, Brexiteers have already gone nuts as well.
- b_tterc_p 7y ago
  Feels unlikely. Does China really want to sent troops into Hong Kong? Trump is not a civic minded person, but I imagine such an action would not play well towards their current PR and economic troubles for trade deals. It also creates a genuine likelihood of raising anti Chinese sentiment and increasing the threat of violent resistance.
  - T-A 7y ago
    > Does China really want to sent troops into Hong Kong? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_Hong_Kong_Garrison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_Hon...
    - b_tterc_p 7y ago
      Interesting but not really contradictory. The fact that there are physically troops there isn’t all that significant. This Wikipedia suggests they’re not allowed to interfere and that they’re not supposed to support public order. Deploying these troops would be maybe slightly less controversial than new soldiers but still highly frowned upon. Sending Chinese troops to put down protestors would probably rally another third of the city state to the cause.
    - loyukfai 7y ago
      The garrison troops have yet to interfere in the domestic affairs of Hong Kong, at least directly. If and when they do, it will be unlikely to end well.
- IAmEveryone 7y ago
  "False flag" gets thrown around far too often, compared to the number of proven cases. And, yes, we would have some amount of history to study for such cases: many files of bygone governments like East Germany, the Nazis, or Apartheid South Africa, as well as de-classified files in the US and other western nations. The problem with insinuating "false flag" is that it gives everyone license to believe whatever better fits their existing narrative. I remember the possibility being raised, on HN, for the murder in Charlottesville, for example. In this specific case, it is quite obviously false. Entering & occupying the legislative chamber, with no injuries and rather minor damages, just isn't enough of a pretext for a violent reaction to be considered proportional.
- hker 7y ago
  This is not a false flag op. Disclosure: I closely followed the forum where many of the high level discussions take place: lihkg.com (in Cantonese). The protestors broke into the legislative council, partly in response to the no-response from the government after the large protests on 9 June, 12 June, and 16 June; and partly because of some recent desperate suicides towards no-response from the government (just two cases on 30 June, the day before 1 July). There were lots of push back for breaking the windows even among the protestors, but eventually they did it just to enter the building. The protestors did not go further to break things: they left money for drinks in the fridge, and labeled artifacts for protection (in Cantonese [1]), so they remained civil except for breaking into the building. They made a declaration [2] before they left and the police took over. [1]: https://www.facebook.com/hksidestories/posts/2453858401312810 https://www.facebook.com/hksidestories/posts/245385840131281... [2]: https://lihkg.com/thread/1274850/page/1 https://lihkg.com/thread/1274850/page/1
  - gruez 7y ago
    What is your response to this front page reddit post? https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/c7xhih/protestors_entered_the_building_at_9pm_police/ https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/c7xhih/protestors...
    - dirtyid 7y ago
      Here's a comparison between first second of video, last second (54'') of video, and a composite. Levels are adjusted for clarity because the original comparison is amateurish and more than a little disingenuous. https://i.imgur.com/TVKFW4S.png https://i.imgur.com/TVKFW4S.png (1) It's pretty obvious there are 3 hands which everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring (you know, like a watch). (2) Composite frame clearly show hands do not move at all throughout the video suggest the watch is in fact not wound / functional.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Interesting, thanks for the extra info. Bloody disappointing if so, as it seems likely to get just the sort of heavy handed response that they're demonstrating over.
reaperducer 7y ago
FWIW, the BBC World Service coverage of this has been... disappointing. During the time the protestors were raising the British flag in the legislative chamber, the World Service was doing an in-depth report on Taylor Swift's latest social media rant, and interviewing some blogger about Ivanka Trump. I remember when the BBC was the go-to place for breaking world news.
- germinalphrase 7y ago
  Perhaps, they are stalling until political leadership can suggest an angle to take on the events.
  - pmyteh 7y ago
    The BBC has all kinds of problems. Waiting for a 'line to take' from politicians is emphatically not one of them.
    - germinalphrase 7y ago
      That is good to hear. As an American, I’m not sure how independently the editorial choices are made at the BBC.
      - IAmEveryone 7y ago
        In that case, it may be better not to throw out accusations. People are cynical and mistrusting enough. No need to feed the believe that every politician is corrupt and every journalists lying.
        germinalphrase 7y ago
        I think you’re casting too dark a shade on my comment. Independent new publications like the BBC, NPR, New York Times, etc. will always be in discussion with - and often reliant on information provided by - politicians on world events. It’s part of the process of news making.
SolaceQuantum 7y ago
I watched (on reuters) the police come in with tear gas and beat sticks and riot shields and beat/gas the entire crowd away, with a sign reading 'WARNING: TEAR GAS'. Even though the legislative chamber seemed relatively empty compared to the large crowd outside milling about and continuing the peaceful protest...
- loyukfai 7y ago
  Those protesters, trying to avoid arrest, left before the police re-occupied the building.
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    Yeah, it was just strange to see the police marching on the streets like that.
loyukfai 7y ago
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/02/breaking-tear-gas-deployed-police-clear-admiralty-protesters/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/02/breaking-tear-gas-depl... The protesters had left and the police has reclaimed the building. Apparently the police are also rounding up people leaving via the metro.
abledon 7y ago
So protestors wear yellow and white helmets? Press wear a more heavily reinforced helmet w/ possible other colors? If True, thats so cool that they are organized enough to agree the protestors wear helmets!
djsumdog 7y ago
I really hope Hong Kong gains independence from China. They do not want to be part of that regime. Hong Kong currently participates in some United Nations committees, but is not recognized as a country. Have there been any political leaders in Hong Kong who have publicly opposed returning to China or who have requested recognition by other UN member States?
- lordnacho 7y ago
  This sounds like a complete no-go. Would the rest of the world accept HK as an independent state? Look how they're accepting Taiwan. Now add that China has actual agreements on the status of HK and Macau.
  - sandworm101 7y ago
    >> During talks with Thatcher, China planned to invade and seize Hong Kong if the negotiations set off unrest in the colony. Thatcher later said that Deng told her bluntly that China could easily take Hong Kong by force, stating that "I could walk in and take the whole lot this afternoon", to which she replied that "there is nothing I could do to stop you, but the eyes of the world would now know what China is like". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong The eyes of the world indeed do "know what China is like". They do not care. Should HK move towards independence, tanks will roll south and the world will do nothing.
    - inlined 7y ago
      It amazes me when suddenly something matters or it doesn’t. There were outcries over Crimea until there suddenly weren’t. There were no outcries over Syria until there suddenly were.
      - mooneater 7y ago
        Like the whole idea of a social tipping point? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_point_(sociology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_point_(sociology)
jedberg 7y ago
I'm honestly surprised it took this long to see something like this. I remember the day Hong Kong was turned over to China. I watched it live on the news. The Hong Kong people were most definitely not happy. I'll bet at least 1/3 of the protestors weren't even born when that happened. But they have access to both oral and written history about how things used to be. Information is a powerful thing. I hope they succeed in pushing back on China's takeover.
- soruly 7y ago
  twenty years ago, many believed in the idea "One country, two systems", "50 years unchanged"
  - pishpash 7y ago
    No they didn't. People left in droves to Canada then.
    - dan-robertson 7y ago
      I don’t see how this comment (or rather the second sentence of it) and the one above conflict: Many people didn’t believe it and went to Canada. Many people did believe and didn’t go to Canada. These don’t feel mutually exclusive to me.
      - khc 7y ago
        Many people didn't believe and weren't in positions to leave
craftyguy 7y ago
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html This is 1) political, 2) on TV news constantly, 3) not really new since they've been protesting for days now
inlined 7y ago
Any time protesters start throwing “unidentified liquids” my mind makes some gross assumptions. Maybe I’ve spent too long in SF.
- elliekelly 7y ago
  My first thought as well. And the reason I’ll never go to the Hong Kong Sevens even though I hear it’s awesome.
- calyth2018 7y ago
  Piss is probably preferable to acid. Throwing acid is not exactly unheard of in HK - often cases against women. Thankfully there's no indication of that.
dirtyid 7y ago
These kids fucked themselves so hard. Entering LegCo will enable the government to identify (and punish) the most radical elements under HK riot law. Covering their faces won't stop the government from identifying every mobile device that entered the building via cell tower, GPS and wifi router records. Throwing bricks in the public and blending in with the crowd on the street is one thing, entering an easily geofenced government building with identifiable mobile devices is another.
- pasabagi 7y ago
  They probably used burner phones. At least, that's what people do in Germany.
  - 4ad 7y ago
    German people break into the German parliament?
- pishpash 7y ago
  They want to be arrested as martyrs, that's the whole modus operandi. They want escalation beyond what the majority probably bargained for and it's not going to end well.
soruly 7y ago
"To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic." -- Assassin's Creed
LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
Im pretty sure, china is already planting some story to justify a "intervention".

172 points by realitygrill 7y ago

You might almost think it was intended to provoke a reaction. So much so it smells like a false flag op. They were left pretty much alone for about 12 hours, while they broke windows and shutters, since the first reports of broken windows came last night. To justify the "entirely necessary but unavoidable" reaction coming soon?

dmix 7y ago
The last time the HK police used force there was a massive backlash and the police were angry the government put them in that position to take the brunt of the people's anger. There are very good non-conspiratorial reasons for the police to take their time, this time around. Plus there's always a subset of protestors who just want to destroy property and take a more aggressive stance (usually the younger ones), regardless of the predictable way it will be spun by opponents and perceived by the more moderate public. Not every act of violence or property destruction can be blamed on police provocateurs.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  The last time police used force they used tear gas and rubber bullets, without warning, against an entirely peaceful demonstration. Like nkoren said previous demonstrations have been extra careful to consistently keep it peaceful. This time they wait until the protest has effectively finished trashing the legislature, then go in with tear gas and have a big sign stuck on riot shields of "WARNING: TEAR SMOKE". Both police and protest seem to be taking a dramatically different approach. The peaceful demonstrations that have continued appear separate. Maybe it is as presented, but it sure makes me suspicious given history.
  - dmix 7y ago
    Sure there’s will always be people that are suspicious which is a good thing. More eyes watching. But doesn’t mean it’s true or more plausible than alternative theories. The evidence you presented could be spun either way.
- loyukfai 7y ago
  Besides wanting to destroy property and take a more aggressive stance, there is a prevalent atmosphere of doomsday feeling among the protesting youth. 3 suicides over the last few days can be associated to the current unrest. I wouldn't say it's all the government's fault but it cannot be overlooked either. They are desperate, while whether the current realities warrant that feeling is debatable, one cannot deny its existence.
  - Ill_ban_myself 7y ago
    God bless the grass that grows through cement. It's green and it's tender and it's easily bent. But after a while it lifts up its head, For the grass is living and the stone is dead God bless the grass that's gentle and low, Its roots they are deep and its will is to grow. And God bless the truth, the friend of the poor, And the wild grass growing at the poor man's door.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
realitygrill 7y ago
That seems to be a common opinion on the ground, apparently.
nkoren 7y ago
False flag op was my instant reaction as well. The original protestors were fastidious in their civic-mindedness. These are not them. These protestors are producing made-to-order photos for the Chinese press. When China steps in to "restore order", this will be why.
- vkou 7y ago
  > The original protestors were fastidious in their civic-mindedness. General question: What is your process for determining whether or not a protest you read about is peaceful, fastidiously civic-minded, or if it is just a bunch of hooligans who want to break windows? How do you apply that process for determining the nature of protests in your local city? I ask, because I've never been to, seen, heard of, or read about a protest whose nature was not in dispute by conflicting media. The side that a publication supports is nearly always framed as a group of angels, while the opposing side frames it as a bunch of savages, that were rightfully put in their place by a police response.
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    > What is your process for determining whether or not a protest you read about is peaceful, fastidiously civic-minded, or if it is just a bunch of hooligans who want to break windows? Whether they smash windows and vandalise, or not.
    - IAmEveryone 7y ago
      Or, you know, throwing tea into a harbour.
      - tempguy9999 7y ago
        I'm not up on US history really, but tea was expensive at the time and it was other people's tea being destroyed, so that might well be vandalism. Happy to be corrected though.
    - vkou 7y ago
loyukfai 7y ago
Maybe. But there was also a mass peaceful demonstration held concurrently (more or less for the same cause), the protesters waited till most of those demonstrators had left, or enough of them who left behind to support them, before action. One really needs to look at the whole picture to gain some perspective on this recent "sudden" raise of civil disobedience in HK.
ggggtez 7y ago
Not sure what part you think is a false flag. Hong Kong has a history of protests against China. That would basically have been HK government admitting that Chinese law supersedes HK law. Could you imagine the UK passing a law that Brussels has jurisdiction over UK citizens? The brexiters would go absolutely nuts. HK has a history of resisting Chinese attempts to impose One China on them.
- Tijdreiziger 7y ago
  > Could you imagine the UK passing a law that Brussels has jurisdiction over UK citizens? This is already the case, right? Per Wikipedia: "A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously."
  - IAmEveryone 7y ago
    Yeah. But, in OP’s defense, Brexiteers have already gone nuts as well.
b_tterc_p 7y ago
Feels unlikely. Does China really want to sent troops into Hong Kong? Trump is not a civic minded person, but I imagine such an action would not play well towards their current PR and economic troubles for trade deals. It also creates a genuine likelihood of raising anti Chinese sentiment and increasing the threat of violent resistance.
- T-A 7y ago
  > Does China really want to sent troops into Hong Kong? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_Hong_Kong_Garrison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_Hon...
  - b_tterc_p 7y ago
    Interesting but not really contradictory. The fact that there are physically troops there isn’t all that significant. This Wikipedia suggests they’re not allowed to interfere and that they’re not supposed to support public order. Deploying these troops would be maybe slightly less controversial than new soldiers but still highly frowned upon. Sending Chinese troops to put down protestors would probably rally another third of the city state to the cause.
  - loyukfai 7y ago
    The garrison troops have yet to interfere in the domestic affairs of Hong Kong, at least directly. If and when they do, it will be unlikely to end well.
IAmEveryone 7y ago
"False flag" gets thrown around far too often, compared to the number of proven cases. And, yes, we would have some amount of history to study for such cases: many files of bygone governments like East Germany, the Nazis, or Apartheid South Africa, as well as de-classified files in the US and other western nations. The problem with insinuating "false flag" is that it gives everyone license to believe whatever better fits their existing narrative. I remember the possibility being raised, on HN, for the murder in Charlottesville, for example. In this specific case, it is quite obviously false. Entering & occupying the legislative chamber, with no injuries and rather minor damages, just isn't enough of a pretext for a violent reaction to be considered proportional.
hker 7y ago
This is not a false flag op. Disclosure: I closely followed the forum where many of the high level discussions take place: lihkg.com (in Cantonese). The protestors broke into the legislative council, partly in response to the no-response from the government after the large protests on 9 June, 12 June, and 16 June; and partly because of some recent desperate suicides towards no-response from the government (just two cases on 30 June, the day before 1 July). There were lots of push back for breaking the windows even among the protestors, but eventually they did it just to enter the building. The protestors did not go further to break things: they left money for drinks in the fridge, and labeled artifacts for protection (in Cantonese [1]), so they remained civil except for breaking into the building. They made a declaration [2] before they left and the police took over. [1]: https://www.facebook.com/hksidestories/posts/2453858401312810 https://www.facebook.com/hksidestories/posts/245385840131281... [2]: https://lihkg.com/thread/1274850/page/1 https://lihkg.com/thread/1274850/page/1
- gruez 7y ago
  What is your response to this front page reddit post? https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/c7xhih/protestors_entered_the_building_at_9pm_police/ https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/c7xhih/protestors...
  - dirtyid 7y ago
    Here's a comparison between first second of video, last second (54'') of video, and a composite. Levels are adjusted for clarity because the original comparison is amateurish and more than a little disingenuous. https://i.imgur.com/TVKFW4S.png https://i.imgur.com/TVKFW4S.png (1) It's pretty obvious there are 3 hands which everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring (you know, like a watch). (2) Composite frame clearly show hands do not move at all throughout the video suggest the watch is in fact not wound / functional.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Interesting, thanks for the extra info. Bloody disappointing if so, as it seems likely to get just the sort of heavy handed response that they're demonstrating over.

reaperducer 7y ago

FWIW, the BBC World Service coverage of this has been... disappointing. During the time the protestors were raising the British flag in the legislative chamber, the World Service was doing an in-depth report on Taylor Swift's latest social media rant, and interviewing some blogger about Ivanka Trump. I remember when the BBC was the go-to place for breaking world news.

germinalphrase 7y ago
Perhaps, they are stalling until political leadership can suggest an angle to take on the events.
- pmyteh 7y ago
  The BBC has all kinds of problems. Waiting for a 'line to take' from politicians is emphatically not one of them.
  - germinalphrase 7y ago
    That is good to hear. As an American, I’m not sure how independently the editorial choices are made at the BBC.
    - IAmEveryone 7y ago
      In that case, it may be better not to throw out accusations. People are cynical and mistrusting enough. No need to feed the believe that every politician is corrupt and every journalists lying.
      - germinalphrase 7y ago
        I think you’re casting too dark a shade on my comment. Independent new publications like the BBC, NPR, New York Times, etc. will always be in discussion with - and often reliant on information provided by - politicians on world events. It’s part of the process of news making.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago

I watched (on reuters) the police come in with tear gas and beat sticks and riot shields and beat/gas the entire crowd away, with a sign reading 'WARNING: TEAR GAS'. Even though the legislative chamber seemed relatively empty compared to the large crowd outside milling about and continuing the peaceful protest...

loyukfai 7y ago
Those protesters, trying to avoid arrest, left before the police re-occupied the building.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  Yeah, it was just strange to see the police marching on the streets like that.

loyukfai 7y ago

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/02/breaking-tear-gas-deployed-police-clear-admiralty-protesters/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/02/breaking-tear-gas-depl... The protesters had left and the police has reclaimed the building. Apparently the police are also rounding up people leaving via the metro.

abledon 7y ago

So protestors wear yellow and white helmets? Press wear a more heavily reinforced helmet w/ possible other colors? If True, thats so cool that they are organized enough to agree the protestors wear helmets!

djsumdog 7y ago

I really hope Hong Kong gains independence from China. They do not want to be part of that regime. Hong Kong currently participates in some United Nations committees, but is not recognized as a country. Have there been any political leaders in Hong Kong who have publicly opposed returning to China or who have requested recognition by other UN member States?

lordnacho 7y ago
This sounds like a complete no-go. Would the rest of the world accept HK as an independent state? Look how they're accepting Taiwan. Now add that China has actual agreements on the status of HK and Macau.
- sandworm101 7y ago
  >> During talks with Thatcher, China planned to invade and seize Hong Kong if the negotiations set off unrest in the colony. Thatcher later said that Deng told her bluntly that China could easily take Hong Kong by force, stating that "I could walk in and take the whole lot this afternoon", to which she replied that "there is nothing I could do to stop you, but the eyes of the world would now know what China is like". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong The eyes of the world indeed do "know what China is like". They do not care. Should HK move towards independence, tanks will roll south and the world will do nothing.
  - inlined 7y ago
    It amazes me when suddenly something matters or it doesn’t. There were outcries over Crimea until there suddenly weren’t. There were no outcries over Syria until there suddenly were.
    - mooneater 7y ago
      Like the whole idea of a social tipping point? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_point_(sociology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_point_(sociology)

jedberg 7y ago

I'm honestly surprised it took this long to see something like this. I remember the day Hong Kong was turned over to China. I watched it live on the news. The Hong Kong people were most definitely not happy. I'll bet at least 1/3 of the protestors weren't even born when that happened. But they have access to both oral and written history about how things used to be. Information is a powerful thing. I hope they succeed in pushing back on China's takeover.

soruly 7y ago
twenty years ago, many believed in the idea "One country, two systems", "50 years unchanged"
- pishpash 7y ago
  No they didn't. People left in droves to Canada then.
  - dan-robertson 7y ago
    I don’t see how this comment (or rather the second sentence of it) and the one above conflict: Many people didn’t believe it and went to Canada. Many people did believe and didn’t go to Canada. These don’t feel mutually exclusive to me.
    - khc 7y ago
      Many people didn't believe and weren't in positions to leave

craftyguy 7y ago

> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html This is 1) political, 2) on TV news constantly, 3) not really new since they've been protesting for days now

inlined 7y ago

Any time protesters start throwing “unidentified liquids” my mind makes some gross assumptions. Maybe I’ve spent too long in SF.

elliekelly 7y ago
My first thought as well. And the reason I’ll never go to the Hong Kong Sevens even though I hear it’s awesome.
calyth2018 7y ago
Piss is probably preferable to acid. Throwing acid is not exactly unheard of in HK - often cases against women. Thankfully there's no indication of that.

dirtyid 7y ago

These kids fucked themselves so hard. Entering LegCo will enable the government to identify (and punish) the most radical elements under HK riot law. Covering their faces won't stop the government from identifying every mobile device that entered the building via cell tower, GPS and wifi router records. Throwing bricks in the public and blending in with the crowd on the street is one thing, entering an easily geofenced government building with identifiable mobile devices is another.

pasabagi 7y ago
They probably used burner phones. At least, that's what people do in Germany.
- 4ad 7y ago
  German people break into the German parliament?
pishpash 7y ago
They want to be arrested as martyrs, that's the whole modus operandi. They want escalation beyond what the majority probably bargained for and it's not going to end well.

soruly 7y ago

"To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic." -- Assassin's Creed

LifeLiverTransp 7y ago

Im pretty sure, china is already planting some story to justify a "intervention".