7 ms·

It’s a skin on a skin on a skin on a skin. Its always been this way. By clicking on “advanced” buttons you can easily end up with four different eras of UI on t

by wrs 7y ago

It’s a skin on a skin on a skin on a skin. Its always been this way. By clicking on “advanced” buttons you can easily end up with four different eras of UI on the screen, including different system fonts and different font rendering algorithms! I can tell you first-hand from trying to get some of that fixed years ago, there’s just so much STUFF in Windows that is hardly ever seen, or should only be seen by “IT professionals” who supposedly don’t care, that there will never be enough resources or time to fix it all.

Waterluvian 7y ago
That sounds like it was the intent. But I got into old menus simply by trying to change the clock time. Definitely not an IT professionals who don't care kind of action.
- derefr 7y ago
  Sure it is. What home user even realizes they can change the clock time any more? Consider: can you change the clock time on your phone? I've never even considered doing so, personally. Seems like it'd screw up the GPS, if it was possible. Anyone whose first computer was a smartphone isn't going to think of changing their computer's clock time. To them, the time is a network feature, not a local feature.
  - Taniwha 7y ago
    GPS satellite signals include their own time
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - gbear605 7y ago
    I do it on my smartphone occasionally.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Consider: can you change the clock time on your phone? On an iPhone: Settings > General > Date & Time
  - Causality1 7y ago
    A feature that's partially broken on Windows 10 considering I have never once had the "set time zone automatically" option work properly.
  - maccard 7y ago
    It screws up SSL certs, that's for sure.
  - alister 7y ago
    > What home user even realizes they can change the clock time any more? Indeed. Even if you have the temerity to go and change the clock, the iPhone is secretly maintaining the true time internally and can use it or revert to it at will. I'm making a bold claim, so here are the steps to reproduce: - Go to Settings -> General -> Date & Time -> Set Automatically -> disable - set an incorrect time - Go to Settings -> {Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Cellular} -> Off - Go to Settings -> Airplane Mode -> enable - go someplace without any wifi or change the wifi password on your access point or disconnect/power-off your access point - remove the SIM card from the iPhone - Now go back to Settings -> General -> Date & Time -> Set Automatically -> enable - Surprise surprise! The date and time revert back to the correct value even though you have no possible network connection. How did it know the correct time? Implementation thoughts: If the true time is 6:00pm and you change it to 9:00pm, the iPhone could calculate the offset as 3 hours and 0 minutes, and show you the time as 6:00pm + 3h = 9:00pm, but knows that the true time is really 6:00pm. The same effect could also be achieved by having two internal real time clocks (aka time of day clocks), one for the true time and one for the time you set. My theory is that they'd prefer users not messing with the clock, but they provide a UI for setting your own time (such as for people who like setting their clocks 5 minutes ahead to never be late for meetings). However, they keep the true time for other purposes (perhaps for logging, syncing, or something else?).
    - realo 7y ago
      Cough ... GPS ... cough ...
      - alister 7y ago
        I had it airplane mode, but I could see an argument that the GPS is receive-only (it is not transmitting, so not affecting the airplane), so it is not disabled in airplane mode. (I saw comments on the Apple discussion site that they used to turn off GPS in airplane mode but no longer do so on recent iPhone models or versions of iOS.) Though I didn't mention it earlier, I also had location services disabled: - Go to Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> Off The above supposedly disables the GPS or use of the GPS data.
    - 7y ago
  - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
    > Consider: can you change the clock time on your phone? I've never even considered doing so, personally. You've never traveled to another time zone?
    - mruts 7y ago
      What phone doesn’t change timezones automatically?
birdman3131 7y ago
I would not mind the newer interface if it did not screw with half the settings I need.
- Baeocystin 7y ago
  I actually like the newer interface... when it isn't trying to take over my entire 32" screen to show me information that would have fit in a 2" square window, or doesn't bother exposing more than a quarter of the functionality you get with the older UIs.
  - gmueckl 7y ago
    How many parts of Settings do you actually like then? I think that almost every part falls into one of these categories for me.
    - Baeocystin 7y ago
      ...exactly. :)
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
Microsoft is a big company and Windows is a big product. Is fully remaking the Control Panel really such a monumental task? The Control Panel isn't that deep. It's not as though Microsoft needs to create a UI for every advanced Group Policy setting. The new Settings app was introduced with Windows 8 in 2013. That means Microsoft has had six years to complete the transition.
- oblio 7y ago
  Yes, it's monumental. Third parties could add their own pages and hook into existing pages. Read the OldNewThing blog for the insanity that is the Windows ISV ecosystem. Windows is space age tech compared to the garbage these companies pull off.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Oh, I can understand leaving a Control Panel framework in place for opening legacy menus made by third parties. What I find problematic is the Microsoft-supplied functionality. Duplicate menus for the same thing adds an extra mental burden.
    - will4274 7y ago
      > Duplicate menus for the same thing adds an extra mental burden. I think you'd see that Microsoft gets this. Win8 was all dupes. Initial Win10 release removed most of the dupes and they've removed more with each Win10 release. The strategy is pretty clear - incremental rewrite based on what people use.
      - Dylan16807 7y ago
        They've been removing things? The last change I noticed was the addition of a new duplicate control panel for sound.
        pas 7y ago
        This means the old one is deprecated and will be eventually removed. The problem is, for some reason the presentation is tightly coupled/tied to the data model of the settings. Otherwise there would be no need to have 2 versions of it. Which is OOP no-no 101. Shrug. Corporate IT.

by wrs 7y ago

Waterluvian 7y ago

That sounds like it was the intent. But I got into old menus simply by trying to change the clock time. Definitely not an IT professionals who don't care kind of action.

derefr 7y ago
Sure it is. What home user even realizes they can change the clock time any more? Consider: can you change the clock time on your phone? I've never even considered doing so, personally. Seems like it'd screw up the GPS, if it was possible. Anyone whose first computer was a smartphone isn't going to think of changing their computer's clock time. To them, the time is a network feature, not a local feature.
- Taniwha 7y ago
  GPS satellite signals include their own time
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- gbear605 7y ago
  I do it on my smartphone occasionally.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Consider: can you change the clock time on your phone? On an iPhone: Settings > General > Date & Time
- Causality1 7y ago
  A feature that's partially broken on Windows 10 considering I have never once had the "set time zone automatically" option work properly.
- maccard 7y ago
  It screws up SSL certs, that's for sure.
- alister 7y ago
  > What home user even realizes they can change the clock time any more? Indeed. Even if you have the temerity to go and change the clock, the iPhone is secretly maintaining the true time internally and can use it or revert to it at will. I'm making a bold claim, so here are the steps to reproduce: - Go to Settings -> General -> Date & Time -> Set Automatically -> disable - set an incorrect time - Go to Settings -> {Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Cellular} -> Off - Go to Settings -> Airplane Mode -> enable - go someplace without any wifi or change the wifi password on your access point or disconnect/power-off your access point - remove the SIM card from the iPhone - Now go back to Settings -> General -> Date & Time -> Set Automatically -> enable - Surprise surprise! The date and time revert back to the correct value even though you have no possible network connection. How did it know the correct time? Implementation thoughts: If the true time is 6:00pm and you change it to 9:00pm, the iPhone could calculate the offset as 3 hours and 0 minutes, and show you the time as 6:00pm + 3h = 9:00pm, but knows that the true time is really 6:00pm. The same effect could also be achieved by having two internal real time clocks (aka time of day clocks), one for the true time and one for the time you set. My theory is that they'd prefer users not messing with the clock, but they provide a UI for setting your own time (such as for people who like setting their clocks 5 minutes ahead to never be late for meetings). However, they keep the true time for other purposes (perhaps for logging, syncing, or something else?).
  - realo 7y ago
    Cough ... GPS ... cough ...
    - alister 7y ago
      I had it airplane mode, but I could see an argument that the GPS is receive-only (it is not transmitting, so not affecting the airplane), so it is not disabled in airplane mode. (I saw comments on the Apple discussion site that they used to turn off GPS in airplane mode but no longer do so on recent iPhone models or versions of iOS.) Though I didn't mention it earlier, I also had location services disabled: - Go to Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> Off The above supposedly disables the GPS or use of the GPS data.
  - 7y ago
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  > Consider: can you change the clock time on your phone? I've never even considered doing so, personally. You've never traveled to another time zone?
  - mruts 7y ago
    What phone doesn’t change timezones automatically?

birdman3131 7y ago

I would not mind the newer interface if it did not screw with half the settings I need.

Baeocystin 7y ago
I actually like the newer interface... when it isn't trying to take over my entire 32" screen to show me information that would have fit in a 2" square window, or doesn't bother exposing more than a quarter of the functionality you get with the older UIs.
- gmueckl 7y ago
  How many parts of Settings do you actually like then? I think that almost every part falls into one of these categories for me.
  - Baeocystin 7y ago
    ...exactly. :)

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

Microsoft is a big company and Windows is a big product. Is fully remaking the Control Panel really such a monumental task? The Control Panel isn't that deep. It's not as though Microsoft needs to create a UI for every advanced Group Policy setting. The new Settings app was introduced with Windows 8 in 2013. That means Microsoft has had six years to complete the transition.

oblio 7y ago
Yes, it's monumental. Third parties could add their own pages and hook into existing pages. Read the OldNewThing blog for the insanity that is the Windows ISV ecosystem. Windows is space age tech compared to the garbage these companies pull off.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  Oh, I can understand leaving a Control Panel framework in place for opening legacy menus made by third parties. What I find problematic is the Microsoft-supplied functionality. Duplicate menus for the same thing adds an extra mental burden.
  - will4274 7y ago
    > Duplicate menus for the same thing adds an extra mental burden. I think you'd see that Microsoft gets this. Win8 was all dupes. Initial Win10 release removed most of the dupes and they've removed more with each Win10 release. The strategy is pretty clear - incremental rewrite based on what people use.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      They've been removing things? The last change I noticed was the addition of a new duplicate control panel for sound.
      - pas 7y ago
        This means the old one is deprecated and will be eventually removed. The problem is, for some reason the presentation is tightly coupled/tied to the data model of the settings. Otherwise there would be no need to have 2 versions of it. Which is OOP no-no 101. Shrug. Corporate IT.