20 ms·
NYC Mesh Begins Broadband Expansion in Brooklyn
- alexkavon 7y agoDamn they're growing fast. Last September I tried to setup it up but there was no service because the trees in Tompkins Square Park. Will have to give another looksie.
- BrianNYC 7y agoWe have 2 new hubs near Tompkins, one on Ave A and another on 7th St
- cr0sh 7y agoHas there been any work or thoughts on what to do for long distance city-to-city hops? Like say you wanted to connect the NY Mesh to Boston (not sure if they have one, just an example)? I live in Phoenix - I don't think we have anything, or if we do, they are all small projects, nothing widespread. We are fairly flat, and there are probably mountains and buildings that could be used for APs (getting permission might be tough, though - because most of them are already used for comms systems - not sure how easy or difficult it would be to piggyback on to a mast). But we are a good distance away from other metro areas in the state itself (Tuscon and Flagstaff mainly), and connection to say, Los Angeles or San Diego (or even Palm Springs) seems like a virtual impossibility to me. I'm just curious if anyone has considered how to bridge these long-distance spans in a low cost manner?
- techsin101 7y agoWhat's the ping
- jkilpatr 7y agoEach wireless point-to-point hop will add about 10ms.
- tmoney9999 7y agoHow's the bandwidth?
- jkilpatr 7y ago100mbps isn't unreasonable to expect out of the gear, but I don't know what they get in practice considering the high RF noise environment.
- foxhop 7y agoJust for context, 100mbps is fast. That's like local wired LAN speeds from 15 years ago.
- Nullabillity 7y ago100Mbps was fast 15 years ago. These days it's the bare minimum. And remember that you'll be sharing this capacity with all your neighbors who sign up, and since it's wireless you can't just expand the capacity by adding more cables. And, as jkilpatr mentioned[0], the latency will make it pretty much useless for a lot of applications (such as real-time multiplayer games, or anything that creates a lot of short-lived TCP connections such as web browsing). The only way to build out decent Internet infrastructure is to dig. Even if they come from the best intentions then these WISP efforts ultimately just end up poisoning the well. Then again, maybe it'd be a good thing to keep connectivity at a point just before garbage like Stadia becomes viable. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20320949 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20320949
- jkilpatr 7y agoI have gigabit fiber at home. I also run a WISP. This is from one of my wisp customers taken literally seconds ago. root@OpenWrt:~# ping 1.1.1.1 PING 1.1.1.1 (1.1.1.1): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: seq=0 ttl=61 time=7.791 ms 64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: seq=1 ttl=61 time=7.084 ms 64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: seq=2 ttl=61 time=6.691 ms Same server from my gigabit fiber to the apartment unit [justin@DESKTOP-UALBV95 ~]$ ping 1.1.1.1 PING 1.1.1.1 (1.1.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=11.4 ms 64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=56 time=11.2 ms The point to point customer antenna added ~6ms of latency the remaining ~2ms is the fiber line to the internet exchange. tl;dr Wireless point to point is easily competitive to Cable on speed and anything on latency.
- fitzroy 7y agoShout out to the lonely node on Smith and Douglass! Howdy neighbor.
- timgilbert 7y agoI believe that's one of the LinkNYC kiosks on Smith St. I wasn't aware they were part of this mesh, although the nycmesh site says they've "become unreliable": https://docs.nycmesh.net/installs/linknyc/ https://docs.nycmesh.net/installs/linknyc/
- tomstockmail 7y agoAnyone working on a Chicago based one? Chicago is quite flat with many taller-than-other buildings scattered throughout that could act as access points. There's https://www.reddit.com/r/ChicagoMeshnet https://www.reddit.com/r/ChicagoMeshnet that gets some posts but it doesn't seem that anyone is active on it.
- voicedYoda 7y agoI've pondered this numerous times, and will gladly contribute what i can. Will check out the sub-Reddit ASAP
- gabcoh 7y agoI think a chicago mesh net would be awesome! Unfortunately the community around that subreddit seems to have rallied and died a few times. Maybe time for another push?
- overthemoon 7y agoChiming in to agree. I was disappointed when I found out the sub wasn't very active when I checked a while back, I'll pop in again.
- A2017U1 7y agoreddit is not a good place for anyone pushing for decentralization, they'll come for you real quick the moment one government decides you are detrimental to society "too big to protect" is coming
- otachack 7y agoI'd be down to help with this! Maybe we can start a communication channel? I think there was a Riot channel/room but not active at all. We can try joining that or use a different service (rocket chat? Telegram?) Here's the Riot room: https://matrix.to/#/#chicagomeshnet:matrix.org https://matrix.to/#/#chicagomeshnet:matrix.org Telegram added location based grouping too we can try.
- Endy 7y agoMan, I wish they would just expand over the Hudson by a few miles.
- jkilpatr 7y agoWell build a link yourself, that's half the point of a community ISP. Use the method described here to determine line of sight to an existing node. https://youtu.be/3eq1Xs-Ahkc?t=126 https://youtu.be/3eq1Xs-Ahkc?t=126 Then reach out and coordinate. All in all it shouldn't take more than a few hours of actual effort, but probably a few weeks of IRL time.
- BrianNYC 7y agoWe have a channel on Slack dedicated to New Jersey, so we are working on it. slack.nycmesh.net #n-newjersey
- slater 7y agoDoes NYC not have something like SF's monkeybrains.net? This seems sorta-kinda like it, but not?
- woah 7y agoThey are both wireless ISPs. The difference is that NYCmesh is incorporated as a nonprofit.
- prezjordan 7y agohttp://naturalwireless.com/ http://naturalwireless.com/ has a grid all over NYC
- walterbell 7y agoHow are their residential fees and install process?
- syntaxing 7y agoHave you used monkeybrains before? I'm trying to find a good ISP in SF and would appreciate any advice!
- 40acres 7y agoI'll have to research how this program is funded later, I haven't lived in NY for a few years now but between Lower Manhattan and this section of Brooklyn it seems like richer neighborhoods are getting access first. Do the two supernodes need to be within a certain distance of each other?
- BrianNYC 7y agoSupernodes are connected by fiber so they can be any distance apart. The two main areas we have connected are the Lower East Side and Chinatown in Manhattan (mixed income) and in Brooklyn our main hub is in a low-income housing association building, definitely not a "richer neighborhood". It is a priority of ours to get to the neighborhoods that need us the most.
- jkilpatr 7y agoUsers are expected to 'donate' $20 a month. https://www.nycmesh.net/join https://www.nycmesh.net/join I'm not sure exactly how that's enforced so make of it what you will. They also receive donations of roof space and backhaul internet. Two supernodes are just point to point backhaul antennas combined with a sector (large area) antenna. Distance isn't a problem, line of sight is.
- et2o 7y agoIt'd be really helpful if they could come up with some sort of packet of information for renters to give their building owners.
- hfvndsubvdu 7y agoDoes https://docs.nycmesh.net/organization/outreach/ https://docs.nycmesh.net/organization/outreach/ have what you’re looking for?
- et2o 7y agoYes that is exactly it. Didn't see that, thank you.
- syntaxing 7y agoIs there anything equivalent in SF?! I love the idea of this and would love to get something similar!
- thirtyseven 7y agoNot SF technically but check out People's Open Network in Oakland: https://peoplesopen.net/ https://peoplesopen.net/
- jnathsf 7y agoYes SF has one - not well known but you can reach out to Mike McCarthy https://twitter.com/michaelmccarthy https://twitter.com/michaelmccarthy
- Element_ 7y agoFor anyone investigating setting up a local mesh network in their community checkout the Althea project: https://althea.net/ https://althea.net/
- Filligree 7y agoI was interested, until I saw 'blockchain'. Supporting anything that energy-hungry is just flat out.
- killyp 7y agoNot all blockchains are created equal. It is the proof of work algorithms that accompany most blockchains that are extremely energy hungry
- colatkinson 7y agoIn fairness, it appears to use proof-of-stake[1] which has issues of its own, but doesn't use the TWh of electricity that proof-of-work does. [1]: https://althea.net/whitepaper#blockchain-overview https://althea.net/whitepaper#blockchain-overview
- Aromasin 7y agoMany newer blockchains use “Proof of Stake” (PoS) systems that rely on market incentives, instead of "Proof of Work" which is the energy hungry variety. Server owners on PoS systems are called “validators” — not “miners.” They put down a deposit, or “stake” a large amount of cryptocurrency, in exchange for the right to add blocks to the blockchain. Validators are chosen by an algorithm that takes their “stake” into account. Removing the element of competition saves energy and allows each machine in a PoS system to work on one problem at a time, as opposed to a Proof of Work system, in which a plethora of machines are rushing to solve the same problem. Additionally, if a validator fails to behave honestly, they may be removed from the network — which helps keep PoS systems accurate. Granted, I have no idea what system these guys use - but don't write of the technology just because it has the B word involved.
- nisa 7y agoNo blockchain bullshit: - libremesh - https://libremesh.org https://libremesh.org (cert is broken :/) (layer 3, they use bmx6 / bmx7 like nycmesh) - freifunk-gluon: https://gluon.readthedocs.io/en/v2018.2.x/ https://gluon.readthedocs.io/en/v2018.2.x/ this is used for more than 100k nodes in germany, it is however layer2 (batman-adv) so beyond 100-200 nodes you'll run into problems but there are solutions.
- rmason 7y agoPeople may find it hard to believe but Detroit is the leader in mesh networks. They've assisted other cities all over the world in setting them up. I've met these folks and the amount of good they do for the money spent is unbelievable. https://www.alliedmedia.org/dctp https://www.alliedmedia.org/dctp
- bitxbitxbitcoin 7y agoI do find it hard to believe but thanks for sharing. I know what I am checking out next time I visit Detroit!
- newaccoutnas 7y agoMaybe not too hard to believe if you think that one of the main drivers for mesh is the lack of available traditional infrastructure
- orblivion 7y agoFor people who have visited Detroit, it shouldn't be surprising.
- NotSammyHagar 7y agoHow does dhcp work in this environment? I assume something like shorter term assignments. That way if you shift DHCP every day without extensive logging you have a good expectation of privacy. We need this in Seattle.
- NotAnEconomist 7y agoSeattle used to have one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Wireless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Wireless
- untog 7y agoI love this project, and I dream of participating in it in my building that is wired for Optimum and Optimum only. It would be a great way to break out of that monopoly. But I do wonder, how will the rollout of 5G affect projects like this? It's a non-profit so I'll always favor it as a community project, but once Verizon comes knocking with a home 5G router capable of fantastic speeds it'll tempt many, I'm sure.
- cjbprime 7y agoMy cell service on LTE in the US is about as fast as my cable modem. But I can't just cancel my cable internet and tether instead, because every telco performs severe rate-limiting once you use up a bandwidth quota -- there's no truly unlimited data option. So perhaps you're assuming that 5G will result in unlimited data and the obsolescence of cable internet as a result, but that's not obvious, at least to me.
- ailideex 7y ago> So perhaps you're assuming that 5G will result in unlimited data and the obsolescence of cable internet as a result, but that's not obvious, at least to me. For some reason with every new generation of mobile broadband many people think this is just around the corner but I have yet to find any basis for this belief.
- rayiner 7y agoIt's actually been happening for awhile now: https://www.telecompetitor.com/pew-smartphone-only-homes-grow-now-1-in-5-use-smartphones-exclusively-for-internet-access; https://www.telecompetitor.com/pew-smartphone-only-homes-gro... https://www.pewinternet.org/2015/12/21/home-broadband-2015 https://www.pewinternet.org/2015/12/21/home-broadband-2015. Fixed broadband use peaked in 2013, at 70%. Now it's at 65%.
- somepig 7y agoFun Fact: Some carrier throttling works by throttling packets with an unexpected TTL. Android has a default TTL of 64. You most certainly shouldn't set the default TTL of a tethered device to 65, because then your carrier may fail apply proper limits to that traffic.
- CupofChineseTea 7y agoThis is interesting.