5 ms·

GNUnet 0.11.5

158 points by kgwxd 7y ago

jokowueu 7y ago
Anything that uses GNUnet ? Can you use it by its self like i2p etc ?
- amirouche 7y ago
  There is the command-line interface `gnunet-publish`, `gnunet-search` and `gnunet-download`. There is nim chat application: https://git.gnunet.org/gnunet-nim.git/ https://git.gnunet.org/gnunet-nim.git/ There is also an unmaintained guile bulletin board: https://git.gnunet.org/gnunet-guile2.git/ https://git.gnunet.org/gnunet-guile2.git/
  - squarefoot 7y ago
    Looks like voice communications are also possible. https://docs.gnunet.org/#First-steps-_002d-Using-GNUnet-Conversation https://docs.gnunet.org/#First-steps-_002d-Using-GNUnet-Conv... Now that makes it interesting; imagine a few micro routers such as the TpLink TL-MR3020 or any other similar device that once turned on boot their OpenWRT with GNUnet extensions then connect together allowing the users to talk each other no matter where they are located. That would be a killer application (probably along with codec2 over LoRa) for deployment in certain sensitive areas, provided the users can mask its traffic nature from sniffers.
    - amirouche 7y ago
      That is GNU Jami?
      - meowmeownyaa 7y ago
        Jami is a completely separate project, their only relation is both being GNU-affiliated.
      - squarefoot 7y ago
        I have no idea if they use the same protocols and network, but a brief read at Jami features seems to indicate there is some sort of decentralization. My experience with it when it still was called Ring wasn't exactly positive though, I hope it got better in the meantime.
        ng0 7y ago
        The don't use the same network, and never have. Jami uses OpenDHT (https://jami.net/ces-2019/ https://jami.net/ces-2019/), GNUnet uses its own DHT (see for example https://grothoff.org/christian/nss2011.pdf https://grothoff.org/christian/nss2011.pdf, or the rather hacky (and not complete) bib page: https://bib.gnunet.org/#DHT https://bib.gnunet.org/#DHT)
        dvn0 7y ago
        There has been some past talk[0] at least on the side of GNUnet to eventually look into integration between the projects. Currently they are completely distinct p2p implementations while sharing some ostensible similarities. [0] - https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/ring/2017-09/msg00011.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/ring/2017-09/msg00011.htm...
    - t3sserakt 7y ago
      Yep, exactly. LoRa would be a perfect fit, because GNUnet nodes could be become independent from commercial infrastructure for whole towns! The transport layer of GNUnet will be rewritten. The former so called plugins will be called communicators in the new architecture. Anybody who likes to write a LoRa communicator for GNUnet?
- meowmeownyaa 7y ago
  It's sort of like an arbitrary mesh with lots of layers of plugins providing primitives like private key-based identities, a decentralized DNS alternative, block storage, tunnels, etc, and these combine to build more complex tools like filesharing, chat, etc. It doesn't do onion/garlic routing, although that's planned to be added in the future. It is possible to make a service available over GNUnet like you can with i2p, and with the name system you can give it a convenient name and add it to your address book like in i2p. That being said, this service in particular offers no real anonymity at the moment, and is currently buggy. Filesharing is its most mature application in my opinion, it doesn't have any severe bugs I'm aware of and it is optionally anonymous (although the network only has a few hundred peers at the moment so its anonymity isn't as strong as it will be when more people use it).
  - ng0 7y ago
    A short addition: (1) various forms of onion routing are in active research. (1.1) see for example the "big data, little data, no such data" presentation of Christian Grothoff from 2017 (2) what we are still trying to solve here, mainly, is making it harder to know the path of communication. Today, if User Lora with Node A talks to User Charly on Node B, the data goes through N nodes. The N nodes between A and B are aware of (parts of) the path, but the communication remains encrypted (in very short terms explained). (edit: no markup here)
dang 7y ago
Previous discussions include 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15877908 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15877908 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6961018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6961018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6194553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6194553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5845435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5845435 2011: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2515519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2515519
Y_Y 7y ago
> Be aware that this project is still in an early alpha stage when it comes to software – its not an easy task to rewrite the whole Internet!
amingilani 7y ago
I found this 6-minute video from Oct 2018[0] which gives a great overview of GNUnet and compares it to the existing internet layers. It's pretty cool. I wish they'd write a tutorial or something so that I know how to get started playing around with it. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CdHfySAPas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CdHfySAPas
- some-username 7y ago
  Tutorials: Install: https://gnunet.org/en/install.html https://gnunet.org/en/install.html In a Nutshell usage (wip): https://gnunet.org/en/use.html https://gnunet.org/en/use.html
- some-username 7y ago
  If you're interested in contributing: https://gnunet.org/en/engage.html https://gnunet.org/en/engage.html
nickik 7y ago
I like GNUnet. Very great project. However trying to figure out how to use it was a utter pain and no 'kiler app' for it exists. Its very researchy. But I really like everything they are doing.
CDSlice 7y ago
What exactly is GNUnet? It says it is supposed to replace the old internet stack, but that it also runs on top of it? It looks like it is some kind of research project, so do I just not have enough background information to understand what they are saying? Can anyone ELI5 what GNUnet is and why I should care about it?
- amatus 7y ago
  Here's a few things GNUnet replaces and why it's better: Bittorrent is replaced by GNUnet "filesharing", it's trackerless, it provides a search function, users can adjust their level of anonymity for publishing, downloading, and searching. DNS is replaced by "GNS", it covers the "decentralized" and "secure" points in Zooko's triangle, it a pet name system. VPN is replaced by GNUnet VPN, which is just VPN over GNUnet so it can take advantage of the p2p network. TCP/UDP/SPDY/QUIC is replaced by "cadet", takes advantage of the p2p network. There's also a DHT. And there's lots of other stuff that's in-progress.
  - ng0 7y ago
    We should maybe include a "GNUnet in 5 minutes or less" on the website. The old LEGO analogy is nice, and lynX did a great comparison here: https://secushare.org/img/stack-comparison.png https://secushare.org/img/stack-comparison.png We don't really need the ISO OSI model here, but even this can be added, as we've already used it throughout the years to compare to the GNUnet stack.
    - ng0 7y ago
      I think somewhere we mentioned before that gnunet does not require ISPs and IXPs, but using them today is the de-facto default state.
      - no_identd 7y ago
        May I draw your attention to my old comment here, as well as (more importantly), the entire thread of even older comments /it/ links to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19959687 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19959687 Which I shall also link to directly, but the above also has some relevance: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19864808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19864808 See especially here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19867532 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19867532 And here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19867467 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19867467
bratao 7y ago
I was a student in Google Summer of Code for the GNUnet project. I just want to say that Christian Grothoff (one of GNUNet leader) is a wonderful mentor. I own so much to him for many aspects of my technical and academic life. I highly recommend to anyone who have an interest in distributed systems/security to participate in this project.
NelsonMinar 7y ago
Worth noting GNUnet has been around in at least name since 2001, back in the heady days when peer-to-peer was the new hotness. Was it the next Napster? Competition for JXTA? An evolution of Freenet? The reality is it wasn't very much of anything back then. I've got no idea how the project of today relates to the project of the same name 18 years ago.
- ng0 7y ago
  Would this help? https://docs.gnunet.org/#Introduction https://docs.gnunet.org/#Introduction If anything could be made more clear, let us know as feedback.

GNUnet 0.11.5

158 points by kgwxd 7y ago

jokowueu 7y ago

Anything that uses GNUnet ? Can you use it by its self like i2p etc ?

amirouche 7y ago
There is the command-line interface `gnunet-publish`, `gnunet-search` and `gnunet-download`. There is nim chat application: https://git.gnunet.org/gnunet-nim.git/ https://git.gnunet.org/gnunet-nim.git/ There is also an unmaintained guile bulletin board: https://git.gnunet.org/gnunet-guile2.git/ https://git.gnunet.org/gnunet-guile2.git/
- squarefoot 7y ago
  Looks like voice communications are also possible. https://docs.gnunet.org/#First-steps-_002d-Using-GNUnet-Conversation https://docs.gnunet.org/#First-steps-_002d-Using-GNUnet-Conv... Now that makes it interesting; imagine a few micro routers such as the TpLink TL-MR3020 or any other similar device that once turned on boot their OpenWRT with GNUnet extensions then connect together allowing the users to talk each other no matter where they are located. That would be a killer application (probably along with codec2 over LoRa) for deployment in certain sensitive areas, provided the users can mask its traffic nature from sniffers.
  - amirouche 7y ago
    That is GNU Jami?
    - meowmeownyaa 7y ago
      Jami is a completely separate project, their only relation is both being GNU-affiliated.
    - squarefoot 7y ago
      I have no idea if they use the same protocols and network, but a brief read at Jami features seems to indicate there is some sort of decentralization. My experience with it when it still was called Ring wasn't exactly positive though, I hope it got better in the meantime.
      - ng0 7y ago
        The don't use the same network, and never have. Jami uses OpenDHT (https://jami.net/ces-2019/ https://jami.net/ces-2019/), GNUnet uses its own DHT (see for example https://grothoff.org/christian/nss2011.pdf https://grothoff.org/christian/nss2011.pdf, or the rather hacky (and not complete) bib page: https://bib.gnunet.org/#DHT https://bib.gnunet.org/#DHT)
      - dvn0 7y ago
        There has been some past talk[0] at least on the side of GNUnet to eventually look into integration between the projects. Currently they are completely distinct p2p implementations while sharing some ostensible similarities. [0] - https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/ring/2017-09/msg00011.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/ring/2017-09/msg00011.htm...
  - t3sserakt 7y ago
    Yep, exactly. LoRa would be a perfect fit, because GNUnet nodes could be become independent from commercial infrastructure for whole towns! The transport layer of GNUnet will be rewritten. The former so called plugins will be called communicators in the new architecture. Anybody who likes to write a LoRa communicator for GNUnet?
meowmeownyaa 7y ago
It's sort of like an arbitrary mesh with lots of layers of plugins providing primitives like private key-based identities, a decentralized DNS alternative, block storage, tunnels, etc, and these combine to build more complex tools like filesharing, chat, etc. It doesn't do onion/garlic routing, although that's planned to be added in the future. It is possible to make a service available over GNUnet like you can with i2p, and with the name system you can give it a convenient name and add it to your address book like in i2p. That being said, this service in particular offers no real anonymity at the moment, and is currently buggy. Filesharing is its most mature application in my opinion, it doesn't have any severe bugs I'm aware of and it is optionally anonymous (although the network only has a few hundred peers at the moment so its anonymity isn't as strong as it will be when more people use it).
- ng0 7y ago
  A short addition: (1) various forms of onion routing are in active research. (1.1) see for example the "big data, little data, no such data" presentation of Christian Grothoff from 2017 (2) what we are still trying to solve here, mainly, is making it harder to know the path of communication. Today, if User Lora with Node A talks to User Charly on Node B, the data goes through N nodes. The N nodes between A and B are aware of (parts of) the path, but the communication remains encrypted (in very short terms explained). (edit: no markup here)

dang 7y ago

Previous discussions include 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15877908 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15877908 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6961018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6961018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6194553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6194553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5845435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5845435 2011: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2515519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2515519

Y_Y 7y ago

> Be aware that this project is still in an early alpha stage when it comes to software – its not an easy task to rewrite the whole Internet!

amingilani 7y ago

I found this 6-minute video from Oct 2018[0] which gives a great overview of GNUnet and compares it to the existing internet layers. It's pretty cool. I wish they'd write a tutorial or something so that I know how to get started playing around with it. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CdHfySAPas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CdHfySAPas

some-username 7y ago
Tutorials: Install: https://gnunet.org/en/install.html https://gnunet.org/en/install.html In a Nutshell usage (wip): https://gnunet.org/en/use.html https://gnunet.org/en/use.html
some-username 7y ago
If you're interested in contributing: https://gnunet.org/en/engage.html https://gnunet.org/en/engage.html

nickik 7y ago

I like GNUnet. Very great project. However trying to figure out how to use it was a utter pain and no 'kiler app' for it exists. Its very researchy. But I really like everything they are doing.

CDSlice 7y ago

What exactly is GNUnet? It says it is supposed to replace the old internet stack, but that it also runs on top of it? It looks like it is some kind of research project, so do I just not have enough background information to understand what they are saying? Can anyone ELI5 what GNUnet is and why I should care about it?

amatus 7y ago
Here's a few things GNUnet replaces and why it's better: Bittorrent is replaced by GNUnet "filesharing", it's trackerless, it provides a search function, users can adjust their level of anonymity for publishing, downloading, and searching. DNS is replaced by "GNS", it covers the "decentralized" and "secure" points in Zooko's triangle, it a pet name system. VPN is replaced by GNUnet VPN, which is just VPN over GNUnet so it can take advantage of the p2p network. TCP/UDP/SPDY/QUIC is replaced by "cadet", takes advantage of the p2p network. There's also a DHT. And there's lots of other stuff that's in-progress.
- ng0 7y ago
  We should maybe include a "GNUnet in 5 minutes or less" on the website. The old LEGO analogy is nice, and lynX did a great comparison here: https://secushare.org/img/stack-comparison.png https://secushare.org/img/stack-comparison.png We don't really need the ISO OSI model here, but even this can be added, as we've already used it throughout the years to compare to the GNUnet stack.
  - ng0 7y ago
    I think somewhere we mentioned before that gnunet does not require ISPs and IXPs, but using them today is the de-facto default state.
    - no_identd 7y ago
      May I draw your attention to my old comment here, as well as (more importantly), the entire thread of even older comments /it/ links to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19959687 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19959687 Which I shall also link to directly, but the above also has some relevance: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19864808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19864808 See especially here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19867532 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19867532 And here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19867467 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19867467

bratao 7y ago

I was a student in Google Summer of Code for the GNUnet project. I just want to say that Christian Grothoff (one of GNUNet leader) is a wonderful mentor. I own so much to him for many aspects of my technical and academic life. I highly recommend to anyone who have an interest in distributed systems/security to participate in this project.

NelsonMinar 7y ago

Worth noting GNUnet has been around in at least name since 2001, back in the heady days when peer-to-peer was the new hotness. Was it the next Napster? Competition for JXTA? An evolution of Freenet? The reality is it wasn't very much of anything back then. I've got no idea how the project of today relates to the project of the same name 18 years ago.

ng0 7y ago
Would this help? https://docs.gnunet.org/#Introduction https://docs.gnunet.org/#Introduction If anything could be made more clear, let us know as feedback.