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He did the same thing as Linus, he didn't mince words when he showed the door to people who persistently wrote crap articles. It's the intersection of academic

He did the same thing as Linus, he didn't mince words when he showed the door to people who persistently wrote crap articles. It's the intersection of academic entitlement (students really believe that just showing up and making an effort should be rewarded with good grades, no matter how good the outcome is) and American discourse (no rude words, hurt feelings are more important than substance).

HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
I don't think that your definition of American discourse is totally accurate- it's definitely true that happens, but not everywhere in the US. One of the things that has made me better has been people who were willing to tell me "please stop", "you seriously screwed up", and "good job"- but if you listen to the wrong people, you won't get anywhere. Fram seems like one of those people that's actually worth listening to, and that his criticism and praise have some merit.
cc81 7y ago
You can be strict and fair but still treat people with respect. Being an asshole is not something you have to be.
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  That's the theory, but what do you do if a volunteer's efforts are simply not up to snuff or when his goals are at odds with the project's goals? They need to spend their time elsewhere, unfortunately some just won't take any hint whatsoever. Storytime! I'm teaching introductory science at a regional college somewhere in the Southern US. Admission standards are low, especially for the nursing school. Somehow there's a large number of students from a disadvantaged background who have been directed into nursing by family or their guidance counselor or whoever. This describes half of the kids in my class. Preparedness in math is a great problem, especially for kids from rural or urban ghettoes. Many students have no clue about basic algebra, some can't even do fractions. There is a prerequisite math course that kids must take before the science course, but it fails to fix these deficiencies. I demand that my students solve multiple-step word problems, simply because it's a needed skill that will come up in later courses and in their careers. Math and reading isn't my concern, teaching science is. Besides, medication errors are the third-leading cause of hospital deaths. Someone who can't read or calculate dosage has no business being anywhere near a patient. Without hyperbole, it's a public health issue! That's what I told my students, but they don't care. In their minds I am the obstacle between them and a lucrative career. I force them to continue in poverty. If someone has advice I'm glad to hear. It's an institutional problem that the institution comprehensively fails to address. Administration's main interest is tuition income and student satisfaction.
  - astura 7y ago
    Are you being forced to pass students who are not meeting the qualifications of passing the class? Or do they just not like you?
    - HarryHirsch 7y ago
      Both.
  - nradov 7y ago
    Have you tried starting from a clinical safety perspective, and showing the students the real world consequences of miscalculated dosages? Maybe bring in a guest speaker who was harmed by a preventable medical error?
    - HarryHirsch 7y ago
      I did mention real-world cases, but that didn't get me buy-in to fail them. Besides, the real-world consequences for nurses who kill patients through negligence are slim, just ask Google for Radonda Vaught.
noelsusman 7y ago
The whole point of "professional" discourse is to keep emotions and feelings out of it so the substance can be the focus. If you start insulting people then it is going to trigger an emotional response. That's how most humans work. If you choose not to be careful about how you word your criticism, then you are also choosing to inject emotion into the conversation, thus distracting from the substance. You can be blunt and direct without being an asshole. It's not that hard.
- anoncake 7y ago
  But sometimes professional discourse just isn't effective.

HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago

I don't think that your definition of American discourse is totally accurate- it's definitely true that happens, but not everywhere in the US. One of the things that has made me better has been people who were willing to tell me "please stop", "you seriously screwed up", and "good job"- but if you listen to the wrong people, you won't get anywhere. Fram seems like one of those people that's actually worth listening to, and that his criticism and praise have some merit.

cc81 7y ago

You can be strict and fair but still treat people with respect. Being an asshole is not something you have to be.

HarryHirsch 7y ago
That's the theory, but what do you do if a volunteer's efforts are simply not up to snuff or when his goals are at odds with the project's goals? They need to spend their time elsewhere, unfortunately some just won't take any hint whatsoever. Storytime! I'm teaching introductory science at a regional college somewhere in the Southern US. Admission standards are low, especially for the nursing school. Somehow there's a large number of students from a disadvantaged background who have been directed into nursing by family or their guidance counselor or whoever. This describes half of the kids in my class. Preparedness in math is a great problem, especially for kids from rural or urban ghettoes. Many students have no clue about basic algebra, some can't even do fractions. There is a prerequisite math course that kids must take before the science course, but it fails to fix these deficiencies. I demand that my students solve multiple-step word problems, simply because it's a needed skill that will come up in later courses and in their careers. Math and reading isn't my concern, teaching science is. Besides, medication errors are the third-leading cause of hospital deaths. Someone who can't read or calculate dosage has no business being anywhere near a patient. Without hyperbole, it's a public health issue! That's what I told my students, but they don't care. In their minds I am the obstacle between them and a lucrative career. I force them to continue in poverty. If someone has advice I'm glad to hear. It's an institutional problem that the institution comprehensively fails to address. Administration's main interest is tuition income and student satisfaction.
- astura 7y ago
  Are you being forced to pass students who are not meeting the qualifications of passing the class? Or do they just not like you?
  - HarryHirsch 7y ago
    Both.
- nradov 7y ago
  Have you tried starting from a clinical safety perspective, and showing the students the real world consequences of miscalculated dosages? Maybe bring in a guest speaker who was harmed by a preventable medical error?
  - HarryHirsch 7y ago
    I did mention real-world cases, but that didn't get me buy-in to fail them. Besides, the real-world consequences for nurses who kill patients through negligence are slim, just ask Google for Radonda Vaught.

noelsusman 7y ago

The whole point of "professional" discourse is to keep emotions and feelings out of it so the substance can be the focus. If you start insulting people then it is going to trigger an emotional response. That's how most humans work. If you choose not to be careful about how you word your criticism, then you are also choosing to inject emotion into the conversation, thus distracting from the substance. You can be blunt and direct without being an asshole. It's not that hard.

anoncake 7y ago
But sometimes professional discourse just isn't effective.