7 ms·

I saw this posted on HN before and it received a lot of negative feedback, so I would like to offer a positive experience. I live in the Netherlands and there

I saw this posted on HN before and it received a lot of negative feedback, so I would like to offer a positive experience. I live in the Netherlands and there are electric cars here that already make these sounds. Its like a really faint 'vmmm' found. Its great because when I'm cycling I can hear a car coming up behind me, but its still way softer then regular car sounds so its still a decrease in night noise pollution vs regular cars (the 'vmmm' is really soft and doesn't carry far). I also noticed it already when walking around parking lots, if there wasn't a 'vmmm' i would never realize that there are cars driving around. Sound really is one of the most important senses for situational awareness. (I live in the City where cars crawl around slowly so the sounds are active)

namdnay 7y ago
I think the Renault Zoe makes the sound you are describing? Sounds a bit like a science fiction sound effect, a slightly metallic humming
- mlonkibjuyhv 7y ago
  I absolutely love it. It also gives nice feedback while driving, as acceleration sounds different from coasting, different from braking. Some of this is probably just unavoidable switching noise, but I can't help but feel it's also designed that way.
- toun 7y ago
  I have a Zoe, the noise is soft and stops above 30 km/h. I can turn it off with a switch if I want to. I've already noticed people being surprised when I pass them without the noise, so I keep it activated.
  - Reason077 7y ago
    Yes, the Zoe, Leaf, and many other EVs are already compliant with this rule. I believe under the EU rules, sound is only emitted up to 20km/h (12 mph).
    - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
      > I believe under the EU rules, sound is only emitted up to 20km/h (12 mph). Doesn't that make it pretty pointless then? Collisions below that speed are almost never fatal even for pedestrians. I feel like it may actually be better for inattentive drivers to hit something at those kinds of speeds and jar them into being more careful in the future (and have their insurance rightfully dinged) than to have their first experience of their not paying attention causing them to hit something occur at a higher speed.
      - jadyoyster 7y ago
        In my experience you hear the cars due to tire noise at velocities higher than that since electric cars still make quite a bit of noise driving at speed over asphalt.
      - babo 7y ago
        I prefer not to be hit, even if it's not fatal.
        almost_usual 7y ago
        Chronic nerve pain or lifelong paralysis doesn’t sound great
        AnthonyMouse 7y ago
        Then it's a good thing that almost never happens at such low speeds. But it does happen at even moderately higher speeds. Isn't that the argument used to justify all of those traffic calming measures? Make people feel less safe so they act more safe? Doing this is exactly the opposite of that, so either one of them is wrong or the other is.
      - kerng 7y ago
        Above that speed you hear tires, wind, etc... Friend has a Zoe and it makes perfect sense. When driving slow, like in a parking lot its amazing how futuristic it seems when he disables the "noise" - it's totally silent, very dangerous. So I think this is a good directive.
- dbrgn 7y ago
  You can even change that sound in the Zoe, there's a list of different sounds you can pick from :)
  - Sami_Lehtinen 7y ago
    Who's running largest car sound database where you can download sounds? Ridge racer? Ferrari? Good old Beetle or T-Ford etc.
- kaybe 7y ago
  The vehicles in science fiction might just have speakers too.. maybe there was never actually a physical reason for that specific noise. Hm.
rzzzt 7y ago
The switching noise of the IGBTs is a good start, they are already associated with electric motors. Some nicely sounding harmonics can also be produced with it: https://youtu.be/-SDYdHzT7Qw https://youtu.be/-SDYdHzT7Qw
- majewsky 7y ago
  That's a Siemens ES64U2 if anyone wants to research it further. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroSprinter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroSprinter
benoliver999 7y ago
If you live in a city in the Netherlands, you are surely used to 90% of vehicles (as in, bikes) not making a sound?
- phicoh 7y ago
  Indeed, so my assumption is that this law is trying to keep things from changing. People will have to adapt to silent cars. But that's scary. Everybody knows that you have to look before making a turn or changing lanes. We also know that by and large people who listen to music or have a headset for a phone conversation are not killed en masse. I think that is law is a pity. There is enough noise pollution already.
  - Retric 7y ago
    Silent cars are dangerous. It’s not extremely dangerous, but we have lots of cars. Consider even very slow speed collisions can be dangerous. People get pinned or pushed into traffic etc. Comparing even a fairly low number of deaths and serious injuries vs a minor noise from moving cars and it’s an obvious choice IMO.
    - phicoh 7y ago
      In my opinion these kinds laws are of the kind that "we need to do something because we need to do something". The effects are marginal. If these laws were the result of solid scientific studies and engineering it would be different, but they are not. Basically everybody has to pay the price of having more noise pollution to save a few people not paying attention at what they are doing. The reason we get these kinds rules is because there is a regulatory framework for cars. which makes it easy to add additional requirements. For example, in the Netherlands both electric mopeds and high speed electric bikes get more popular. Certainly the bikes are at high speed essentially silent (small bike tires have less friction and make less noise). Because there is no framework to require bikes to make noise they don't have to. And needless to say, a collision with a bike going 45 km/h will do a lot of damage. If people bumping into silent things was a wide spread problem, then yes it would make sense to require every thing to make noise. But these types of accidents are just that, accidents. They will always happen. Taking random measures to reduce accidents with an unknown amount will just make society as a whole worse.
ChuckMcM 7y ago
It would be both fun and annoying if people start customizing the sounds their car make as they drive by. I could see the passing star destroyer sound as pretty cool but a recreation of the Harley-Davidson rumble as annoying.
- ddebernardy 7y ago
  That easy enough to work around. Just ban noise that's too loud. And if some trolls oppose an arbitrary db limit for some inane reason, just ban noise that could cause hearing injuries -- and strip a good 10 or 20db on the basis that kids get hearing damage at much lower db levels than adults. A Harley Davidson sound at the sound level of a low power vacuum cleaner is so hilariously emasculated that someone driving the car you describe would be ruthlessly ridiculed.
  - kaybe 7y ago
    As somebody living next to a road - just no. I can hear bicycles going by inside at night when it is quiet. (The ones that have some things wrong with them, granted.) Any intentional additional traffic noise without a clear safety benefit should be banned.
- themodelplumber 7y ago
  One existing example... https://youtu.be/n17B_uFF4cA https://youtu.be/n17B_uFF4cA
- flycaliguy 7y ago
  Maybe just let people dial in a few modulation variables to a default growl sound. A limited synth. You could tweak it till your dog recognizes it. Sell some warm sounding effects as vehicle add-ons like a delay or reverb unit.
Jagat 7y ago
I've always felt like bicycle and foot traffic should be in the opposite direction of car traffic so they have a better idea of what's coming next.
- heyoni 7y ago
  That’s why in nyc you always look both ways, even on a one-way street
- cujo 7y ago
  It doesn't work for cycling. A couple of reasons why... People pulling out of side streets have to either merge into the first lane of traffic, or cross that lane and merge into the second (generally). If you have cyclists coming against the flow of traffic at sometimes 20mph, that driver now has to cross 2 lanes of traffic, and always at least one. Car drivers rarely give cyclists space (in the US) as it is when traveling the same direction. How unnerving would that experience be when what was a 10/15/20 mph difference in passing speed effectively doubles (and then some)?

namdnay 7y ago

I think the Renault Zoe makes the sound you are describing? Sounds a bit like a science fiction sound effect, a slightly metallic humming

mlonkibjuyhv 7y ago
I absolutely love it. It also gives nice feedback while driving, as acceleration sounds different from coasting, different from braking. Some of this is probably just unavoidable switching noise, but I can't help but feel it's also designed that way.
toun 7y ago
I have a Zoe, the noise is soft and stops above 30 km/h. I can turn it off with a switch if I want to. I've already noticed people being surprised when I pass them without the noise, so I keep it activated.
- Reason077 7y ago
  Yes, the Zoe, Leaf, and many other EVs are already compliant with this rule. I believe under the EU rules, sound is only emitted up to 20km/h (12 mph).
  - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
    > I believe under the EU rules, sound is only emitted up to 20km/h (12 mph). Doesn't that make it pretty pointless then? Collisions below that speed are almost never fatal even for pedestrians. I feel like it may actually be better for inattentive drivers to hit something at those kinds of speeds and jar them into being more careful in the future (and have their insurance rightfully dinged) than to have their first experience of their not paying attention causing them to hit something occur at a higher speed.
    - jadyoyster 7y ago
      In my experience you hear the cars due to tire noise at velocities higher than that since electric cars still make quite a bit of noise driving at speed over asphalt.
    - babo 7y ago
      I prefer not to be hit, even if it's not fatal.
      - almost_usual 7y ago
        Chronic nerve pain or lifelong paralysis doesn’t sound great
        AnthonyMouse 7y ago
        Then it's a good thing that almost never happens at such low speeds. But it does happen at even moderately higher speeds. Isn't that the argument used to justify all of those traffic calming measures? Make people feel less safe so they act more safe? Doing this is exactly the opposite of that, so either one of them is wrong or the other is.
    - kerng 7y ago
      Above that speed you hear tires, wind, etc... Friend has a Zoe and it makes perfect sense. When driving slow, like in a parking lot its amazing how futuristic it seems when he disables the "noise" - it's totally silent, very dangerous. So I think this is a good directive.
dbrgn 7y ago
You can even change that sound in the Zoe, there's a list of different sounds you can pick from :)
- Sami_Lehtinen 7y ago
  Who's running largest car sound database where you can download sounds? Ridge racer? Ferrari? Good old Beetle or T-Ford etc.
kaybe 7y ago
The vehicles in science fiction might just have speakers too.. maybe there was never actually a physical reason for that specific noise. Hm.

rzzzt 7y ago

The switching noise of the IGBTs is a good start, they are already associated with electric motors. Some nicely sounding harmonics can also be produced with it: https://youtu.be/-SDYdHzT7Qw https://youtu.be/-SDYdHzT7Qw

majewsky 7y ago
That's a Siemens ES64U2 if anyone wants to research it further. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroSprinter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroSprinter

benoliver999 7y ago

If you live in a city in the Netherlands, you are surely used to 90% of vehicles (as in, bikes) not making a sound?

phicoh 7y ago
Indeed, so my assumption is that this law is trying to keep things from changing. People will have to adapt to silent cars. But that's scary. Everybody knows that you have to look before making a turn or changing lanes. We also know that by and large people who listen to music or have a headset for a phone conversation are not killed en masse. I think that is law is a pity. There is enough noise pollution already.
- Retric 7y ago
  Silent cars are dangerous. It’s not extremely dangerous, but we have lots of cars. Consider even very slow speed collisions can be dangerous. People get pinned or pushed into traffic etc. Comparing even a fairly low number of deaths and serious injuries vs a minor noise from moving cars and it’s an obvious choice IMO.
  - phicoh 7y ago
    In my opinion these kinds laws are of the kind that "we need to do something because we need to do something". The effects are marginal. If these laws were the result of solid scientific studies and engineering it would be different, but they are not. Basically everybody has to pay the price of having more noise pollution to save a few people not paying attention at what they are doing. The reason we get these kinds rules is because there is a regulatory framework for cars. which makes it easy to add additional requirements. For example, in the Netherlands both electric mopeds and high speed electric bikes get more popular. Certainly the bikes are at high speed essentially silent (small bike tires have less friction and make less noise). Because there is no framework to require bikes to make noise they don't have to. And needless to say, a collision with a bike going 45 km/h will do a lot of damage. If people bumping into silent things was a wide spread problem, then yes it would make sense to require every thing to make noise. But these types of accidents are just that, accidents. They will always happen. Taking random measures to reduce accidents with an unknown amount will just make society as a whole worse.

ChuckMcM 7y ago

It would be both fun and annoying if people start customizing the sounds their car make as they drive by. I could see the passing star destroyer sound as pretty cool but a recreation of the Harley-Davidson rumble as annoying.

ddebernardy 7y ago
That easy enough to work around. Just ban noise that's too loud. And if some trolls oppose an arbitrary db limit for some inane reason, just ban noise that could cause hearing injuries -- and strip a good 10 or 20db on the basis that kids get hearing damage at much lower db levels than adults. A Harley Davidson sound at the sound level of a low power vacuum cleaner is so hilariously emasculated that someone driving the car you describe would be ruthlessly ridiculed.
- kaybe 7y ago
  As somebody living next to a road - just no. I can hear bicycles going by inside at night when it is quiet. (The ones that have some things wrong with them, granted.) Any intentional additional traffic noise without a clear safety benefit should be banned.
themodelplumber 7y ago
One existing example... https://youtu.be/n17B_uFF4cA https://youtu.be/n17B_uFF4cA
flycaliguy 7y ago
Maybe just let people dial in a few modulation variables to a default growl sound. A limited synth. You could tweak it till your dog recognizes it. Sell some warm sounding effects as vehicle add-ons like a delay or reverb unit.

Jagat 7y ago

I've always felt like bicycle and foot traffic should be in the opposite direction of car traffic so they have a better idea of what's coming next.

heyoni 7y ago
That’s why in nyc you always look both ways, even on a one-way street
cujo 7y ago
It doesn't work for cycling. A couple of reasons why... People pulling out of side streets have to either merge into the first lane of traffic, or cross that lane and merge into the second (generally). If you have cyclists coming against the flow of traffic at sometimes 20mph, that driver now has to cross 2 lanes of traffic, and always at least one. Car drivers rarely give cyclists space (in the US) as it is when traveling the same direction. How unnerving would that experience be when what was a 10/15/20 mph difference in passing speed effectively doubles (and then some)?