7 ms·

An expression I came across recently in one of my circles was “free speech extremist.” As in, if you think free speech trumps censoring all possible offensive

An expression I came across recently in one of my circles was “free speech extremist.” As in, if you think free speech trumps censoring all possible offensive communication, you are a free speech extremist. Man, I remember the days when being PC was basically “don’t be a d*”, and censorship was the Right’s shtick.

0815test 7y ago
Well, they aren't wrong as far as that goes. I would simply remind them that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me add also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
- rebuilder 7y ago
  I'm not sure what those statements imply. I read them to mean that anything is justified if it can be said to protect "liberty" in any way, however small. And the same for "justice".
  - humanrebar 7y ago
    It's a Barry Goldwater quote.
rayiner 7y ago
Hey remember when Al Gore was running for President and liberals and libertarians could agree on a lot of things.
pessimizer 7y ago
A mural painted by a communist depicting Washington and his slaves walking over indian corpses wouldn't have lasted five seconds in any place dominated by the right, and anybody publicly defending it would probably have had their house burned down.
- mc32 7y ago
  It probably would have been nixed. But now that it exists I don’t think we should go about erasing things because they’re uncomfortable.
lettergram 7y ago
IMO the left has been more extreme regarding removal of liberties for the past decade or so. Not saying the right isn’t trying to do that (see abortion), it’s just the left is much broader and those who are liberal seem to generally be blind to it or think the trades off are worth it (although it’s not really their call, that’s why it’s in the bill of rights). That’s why so many people supported (and still support) Trump. Removal of the second amendment (guns), fourth amendment (FISA court), first amendment (all the political correctness), etc. The “right” feels persecuted and IMO justly so. Personally, I fall on the libertarian side so I think both are pretty poor for liberty. But I have watched this scary shift and it kinda mimics the decent into Nazisim... “share my ideals or else we will erase you”.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  When has first amendment been threatened? And if anything, the "right" or whatever Trump is all about FISA courts and pro military/police establishment. I know that abortion rights, right to assisted suicide, drug rights, separation of church and state are all threatened by the "right" also.
  - weberc2 7y ago
    “Free speech” isn’t just an amendment, but also an attitude or an ideal.
- koonsolo 7y ago
  People always refer to nazi's, but I think communism falls in the same boat. So both extreme right and extreme left are oppressive regimes. The difference is that extreme left has a more "social" explanation, but in the end they kill and oppress people the same way. That's why extreme left is more scary to me, like a wolf in sheeps clothing. Historical death counts also show that extreme left can be quite devastating.
api 7y ago
Ever since the Bush II years I've felt like the right and the left have been engaged in a competition over who can be the most irrational and insane. It's a game of reacting to reaction to reaction ... all the way down. If we have this on the left and the "alt-right" on the right, I'm a bit afraid of what the next round will bring. How much crazier can it get? I'm sure top minds on both sides are working tirelessly on things even dumber, meaner, and crazier than anything we've seen so far.
- tuesdayrain 7y ago
  I think worrying about the alt right is similar to worrying about antifa. Both seem to be fringe minority groups that get disproportionate amount of media attention. I've never met anyone in real life who claimed to be alt right, or repeated alt right talking points.
  - api 7y ago
    I've met a few and I run into them online a lot. It depends on your circles and where you live, but it's not nearly as small as you think.
  - luckydata 7y ago
    You're lucky. There's a LOT of crypto fascists in this country.
    - darkpuma 7y ago
      Are we talking a lot in relative terms or absolute terms? How many is a lot and how did we get these estimations?
      - lobotryas 7y ago
        That’s a good question, but a bit pointless. Usually when people say “crypto fascist” it’s just shorthand for “people whose opinions I find inconvenient or with whom I don’t agree”.
UncleMeat 7y ago
I've never met an actual free speech extremist. They promote gab and confederate statues but I don't ever see them fighting against intellectual property laws, or fighting for legalizing sympathetic striking, or fighting to allow pornography on youtube. Instead it seems to be fighting for a very specific kind of free speech.
- threezero 7y ago
  Well, you just met one on the internet, and I know many more like me. I hate any impediment to free speech from either side.

0815test 7y ago

Well, they aren't wrong as far as that goes. I would simply remind them that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me add also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

rebuilder 7y ago
I'm not sure what those statements imply. I read them to mean that anything is justified if it can be said to protect "liberty" in any way, however small. And the same for "justice".
- humanrebar 7y ago
  It's a Barry Goldwater quote.

rayiner 7y ago

Hey remember when Al Gore was running for President and liberals and libertarians could agree on a lot of things.

pessimizer 7y ago

A mural painted by a communist depicting Washington and his slaves walking over indian corpses wouldn't have lasted five seconds in any place dominated by the right, and anybody publicly defending it would probably have had their house burned down.

mc32 7y ago
It probably would have been nixed. But now that it exists I don’t think we should go about erasing things because they’re uncomfortable.

lettergram 7y ago

IMO the left has been more extreme regarding removal of liberties for the past decade or so. Not saying the right isn’t trying to do that (see abortion), it’s just the left is much broader and those who are liberal seem to generally be blind to it or think the trades off are worth it (although it’s not really their call, that’s why it’s in the bill of rights). That’s why so many people supported (and still support) Trump. Removal of the second amendment (guns), fourth amendment (FISA court), first amendment (all the political correctness), etc. The “right” feels persecuted and IMO justly so. Personally, I fall on the libertarian side so I think both are pretty poor for liberty. But I have watched this scary shift and it kinda mimics the decent into Nazisim... “share my ideals or else we will erase you”.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
When has first amendment been threatened? And if anything, the "right" or whatever Trump is all about FISA courts and pro military/police establishment. I know that abortion rights, right to assisted suicide, drug rights, separation of church and state are all threatened by the "right" also.
- weberc2 7y ago
  “Free speech” isn’t just an amendment, but also an attitude or an ideal.
koonsolo 7y ago
People always refer to nazi's, but I think communism falls in the same boat. So both extreme right and extreme left are oppressive regimes. The difference is that extreme left has a more "social" explanation, but in the end they kill and oppress people the same way. That's why extreme left is more scary to me, like a wolf in sheeps clothing. Historical death counts also show that extreme left can be quite devastating.

api 7y ago

Ever since the Bush II years I've felt like the right and the left have been engaged in a competition over who can be the most irrational and insane. It's a game of reacting to reaction to reaction ... all the way down. If we have this on the left and the "alt-right" on the right, I'm a bit afraid of what the next round will bring. How much crazier can it get? I'm sure top minds on both sides are working tirelessly on things even dumber, meaner, and crazier than anything we've seen so far.

tuesdayrain 7y ago
I think worrying about the alt right is similar to worrying about antifa. Both seem to be fringe minority groups that get disproportionate amount of media attention. I've never met anyone in real life who claimed to be alt right, or repeated alt right talking points.
- api 7y ago
  I've met a few and I run into them online a lot. It depends on your circles and where you live, but it's not nearly as small as you think.
- luckydata 7y ago
  You're lucky. There's a LOT of crypto fascists in this country.
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    Are we talking a lot in relative terms or absolute terms? How many is a lot and how did we get these estimations?
    - lobotryas 7y ago
      That’s a good question, but a bit pointless. Usually when people say “crypto fascist” it’s just shorthand for “people whose opinions I find inconvenient or with whom I don’t agree”.

UncleMeat 7y ago

I've never met an actual free speech extremist. They promote gab and confederate statues but I don't ever see them fighting against intellectual property laws, or fighting for legalizing sympathetic striking, or fighting to allow pornography on youtube. Instead it seems to be fighting for a very specific kind of free speech.

threezero 7y ago
Well, you just met one on the internet, and I know many more like me. I hate any impediment to free speech from either side.