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Par for the Apple course isn't it? > Oh, you've all agreed on USB type-c? Well we're going to use thunderbolt. Except for when we don't and our customer have t

Par for the Apple course isn't it? > Oh, you've all agreed on USB type-c? Well we're going to use thunderbolt. Except for when we don't and our customer have to buy a type-c to thunderbolt adapter. > Two button mouse with a scroll wheel? How about a 1 button mouse that you click with two fingers. > Linux? Sure, but it's called MacOsx and doesn't have a native package manager. They've always done stuff like this.

abledon 7y ago
Tried the 1 button mouse in an apple store yesterday, holy S* the page scrolling feature is so bad, you have to 'track pad' it in a limited space on the 3d curved surface. soooo annoying.
- huffmsa 7y ago
  The laptop trackpads with 2 finger touch are great. Having to consciously think "I need to click in the bottom right corner to right click" on non-apple laptop is cumbersome. It's never felt as natural on their mice though.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    I haven't seen a non-apple laptop where two-finger right click didn't work for years.
    - huffmsa 7y ago
      It does work but I've yet to encounter one that works as well as the Apple one. Like how the 1 button mouse works, but the two button one works more better. Though I was moreso talking about the OG hockey puck that shipped with the OG iMac.
      - seba_dos1 7y ago
        I'm using Apple touchpad right now (and a non-Apple one too, right next to it) and it's nothing special. The only thing that makes it pleasant to use is the way gestures are implemented in macOS - but it has nothing to do with two-finger click. This works just as well, or even slightly better, on my non-Apple laptop with GNU/Linux and it's been a while since I've encountered a touchpad that would be worse in this regard (they definitely existed many years ago though).
      - danaris 7y ago
        The hockey puck was bad, sure, but your criticism only mentioned the buttons. You realize that Apple was doing one-button mice from before (almost) everyone else was doing mice, period, yes?
  - gbmor 7y ago
    On my Thinkpad X240's touchpad, 2-finger touch is quite natural feeling. To right click, I just have the second finger touching somewhere in quadrant I. Just an example.
TheCoreh 7y ago
> Oh, you've all agreed on USB type-c? Well we're going to use thunderbolt. Except for when we don't and our customer have to buy a type-c to thunderbolt adapter. Assuming you're referring to Lightning, that predates USB-C, and the reason why Apple hasn't replaced it yet is probably because of agreements with accessory makers over how long they are going to remain using that connector. > Two button mouse with a scroll wheel? How about a 1 button mouse that you click with two fingers. I believe macOS originally didn't have the concept of right click, but rather ctrl-click. Eventually they supported both, and mice sold by Apple have supported right click for almost 10 years. > Linux? Sure, but it's called MacOsx and doesn't have a native package manager. Linux (the kernel) doesn't have a package manager, and many distributions don't have a package manager either. The primary use of macOS is not the command line, and developers are better served by third party package managers/repositories, with a cadence independent of the OS release lifecycle. (Just like on Ubuntu, where you frequently need to add PPAs for anything newer/different from what's available upstream)
- huffmsa 7y ago
  Okay, now rationalize M$FT refusing to add native PDF support.
  - huffmsa 7y ago
    Further, regardless of the rationale, the point still stands that Apple has never really played nicely with the rest of the tech world. But when you're the big fish like they are, a lot of people feel like you're morally obligated to take a contributory, if not directorial role in steering the industry. And Apple doesn't do that.
- arendtio 7y ago
  Just out of curiosity: Which Linux distributions come without a package manager? The only one I am aware of is LFS (Linux From Scratch), which is more like a manual on how to build your own distribution than a distribution like others. Anything more mainstream?
  - 7y ago
toyg 7y ago
> Linux? Sure, but it's called MacOsx OsX was built on NeXTSTEP, first demoed in 1988 and released in 1989. Linus started working on a minix clone in 1991, with the first complete distributions (Slackware and Debian) not appearing before 1993.
- huffmsa 7y ago
  > MacOs (previously Mac OS X and later OS X) is a series of graphical operating systems developed and marketed by Apple Inc. since 2001. Not talking about classic MacOs
  - oefrha 7y ago
    Classics Mac OS isn’t based on NeXTSTEP; Mac OS X is, and the Mach kernel in particular is much older than Linux. It takes like thirty seconds of googling to get your history straight.
  - toyg 7y ago
    Me neither. In 1997, Apple bought NeXT to get Jobs back. In the bargain they acquired NeXTSTEP, which was, by then, a mature and robust OS. Once Jobs was back in charge at Apple, he deemed classic MacOS unsalvageable, and decided to move the Mac to NeXTSTEP - an OS they already owned and which he was obviously familiar with. It took a few years to build what would be known as Cocoa and Carbon, and eventually OSX. Linux was never even in the picture.
- mpweiher 7y ago
  And of course development on the Mach kernel started in 1985. The Unix personality on top of Mach was derived from BSD 4.3, released in 1983. BSD itself was started around 1977. It all is derived from the original Unix.

abledon 7y ago

Tried the 1 button mouse in an apple store yesterday, holy S* the page scrolling feature is so bad, you have to 'track pad' it in a limited space on the 3d curved surface. soooo annoying.

huffmsa 7y ago
The laptop trackpads with 2 finger touch are great. Having to consciously think "I need to click in the bottom right corner to right click" on non-apple laptop is cumbersome. It's never felt as natural on their mice though.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  I haven't seen a non-apple laptop where two-finger right click didn't work for years.
  - huffmsa 7y ago
    It does work but I've yet to encounter one that works as well as the Apple one. Like how the 1 button mouse works, but the two button one works more better. Though I was moreso talking about the OG hockey puck that shipped with the OG iMac.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      I'm using Apple touchpad right now (and a non-Apple one too, right next to it) and it's nothing special. The only thing that makes it pleasant to use is the way gestures are implemented in macOS - but it has nothing to do with two-finger click. This works just as well, or even slightly better, on my non-Apple laptop with GNU/Linux and it's been a while since I've encountered a touchpad that would be worse in this regard (they definitely existed many years ago though).
    - danaris 7y ago
      The hockey puck was bad, sure, but your criticism only mentioned the buttons. You realize that Apple was doing one-button mice from before (almost) everyone else was doing mice, period, yes?
- gbmor 7y ago
  On my Thinkpad X240's touchpad, 2-finger touch is quite natural feeling. To right click, I just have the second finger touching somewhere in quadrant I. Just an example.

TheCoreh 7y ago

> Oh, you've all agreed on USB type-c? Well we're going to use thunderbolt. Except for when we don't and our customer have to buy a type-c to thunderbolt adapter. Assuming you're referring to Lightning, that predates USB-C, and the reason why Apple hasn't replaced it yet is probably because of agreements with accessory makers over how long they are going to remain using that connector. > Two button mouse with a scroll wheel? How about a 1 button mouse that you click with two fingers. I believe macOS originally didn't have the concept of right click, but rather ctrl-click. Eventually they supported both, and mice sold by Apple have supported right click for almost 10 years. > Linux? Sure, but it's called MacOsx and doesn't have a native package manager. Linux (the kernel) doesn't have a package manager, and many distributions don't have a package manager either. The primary use of macOS is not the command line, and developers are better served by third party package managers/repositories, with a cadence independent of the OS release lifecycle. (Just like on Ubuntu, where you frequently need to add PPAs for anything newer/different from what's available upstream)

huffmsa 7y ago
Okay, now rationalize M$FT refusing to add native PDF support.
- huffmsa 7y ago
  Further, regardless of the rationale, the point still stands that Apple has never really played nicely with the rest of the tech world. But when you're the big fish like they are, a lot of people feel like you're morally obligated to take a contributory, if not directorial role in steering the industry. And Apple doesn't do that.
arendtio 7y ago
Just out of curiosity: Which Linux distributions come without a package manager? The only one I am aware of is LFS (Linux From Scratch), which is more like a manual on how to build your own distribution than a distribution like others. Anything more mainstream?
- 7y ago

toyg 7y ago

> Linux? Sure, but it's called MacOsx OsX was built on NeXTSTEP, first demoed in 1988 and released in 1989. Linus started working on a minix clone in 1991, with the first complete distributions (Slackware and Debian) not appearing before 1993.

huffmsa 7y ago
> MacOs (previously Mac OS X and later OS X) is a series of graphical operating systems developed and marketed by Apple Inc. since 2001. Not talking about classic MacOs
- oefrha 7y ago
  Classics Mac OS isn’t based on NeXTSTEP; Mac OS X is, and the Mach kernel in particular is much older than Linux. It takes like thirty seconds of googling to get your history straight.
- toyg 7y ago
  Me neither. In 1997, Apple bought NeXT to get Jobs back. In the bargain they acquired NeXTSTEP, which was, by then, a mature and robust OS. Once Jobs was back in charge at Apple, he deemed classic MacOS unsalvageable, and decided to move the Mac to NeXTSTEP - an OS they already owned and which he was obviously familiar with. It took a few years to build what would be known as Cocoa and Carbon, and eventually OSX. Linux was never even in the picture.
mpweiher 7y ago
And of course development on the Mach kernel started in 1985. The Unix personality on top of Mach was derived from BSD 4.3, released in 1983. BSD itself was started around 1977. It all is derived from the original Unix.