8 ms·

Elizabeth Holmes to Face Trial Next Year on Fraud Charges

56 points by lando2319 7y ago

olliej 7y ago
Still should have charges related to attempted murder (knowingly incorrect testing for conditions that can easily lead to death), and some kind of charge through threats that lead to at least one person dying. We also need to stop focusing just on her and also Ramesh Balwani who was just as complicit.
- afarrell 7y ago
  Here is an introductory guide to criminal law. In particular, to Mens Rea, the state of mind required for crime: https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=173 https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=173 It is written by a defense attorney from NYC
  - iaabtpbtpnn 7y ago
    Have you read Bad Blood? It's quite reasonably arguable that she had such a state of mind, based on the evidence.
  - gnicholas 7y ago
    There's always reckless endangerment, which could potentially be shown here.
godzillabrennus 7y ago
I thought she’d take a plea deal. She really is delusional. Too bad this won’t be televised.
- sjg007 7y ago
  A jury trial could potentially go in her favor. Think bright young women who got in over her head, no fraudulent intent, having to explain the technology and the science to the jury etc... The only thing is that it will be quite difficult to find expert witnesses for the defense. July 2020 is close to November 2020 so it will happen at a time of maximal distraction.
  - staticautomatic 7y ago
    It's possible she could win a jury trial, but if she does it'll be because there isn't enough evidence to meet the burden of proof. Finding experts is never a problem. There are always people willing to say whatever you need them to say for the right price. Also, the science being over the jurors' heads isn't really a big issue in federal court in San Francisco because the jury pool is well educated and quite scientifically literate. It's not quite as good as, say, San Jose, but it's far and away better than most parts of the country. Source: Myself. I'm a jury consultant in SF and have picked juries in Davila's court.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    She met Sunny Balwani her senior year in high school in 2002. She was 18. He was 37 and married. I think they moved in together in 2005. She publicly claimed to be celibate and single-mindedly devoted to her company. He worked for Theranos for some years. Even her board had no idea they were romantically involved. I wonder how much of a role their relationship played in this becoming a debacle and how reasonable it would be for her to claim she was taken advantage of by him. https://www.bustle.com/p/whats-sunny-balwani-doing-in-2019-elizabeth-holmess-theranos-partner-is-facing-charges-16819659 https://www.bustle.com/p/whats-sunny-balwani-doing-in-2019-e... I wish I had different questions about it. I'm a little disappointed to hear about their relationship. I almost liked it better when I was wondering if she was secretly sleeping with multiple board members or something and playing them all for a fool. Women being nothing but the playthings of men is such a tired trope.
- staticautomatic 7y ago
  It's possible she wasn't offered a plea, or was offered one so unattractive that she'd rather roll the dice on a trial.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  "Another theory circulating amongst ex-Theranos employees, he says, is that 'Holmes is gong to get pregnant before she gets on the stand because she will look very sympathetic as a pregnant woman on the stand.'" https://www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/a28037091/elizabeth-holmes-wedding-what-to-know/ https://www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/a28037091/elizabeth...
DoreenMichele 7y ago
She was a media darling in part because she was a female founder. I wonder how much damage she's done to the ability of women to get taken seriously. I don't ever really see that angle talked about.
- Reedx 7y ago
  It doesn't change anything if you view her as an individual. She did damage to her own reputation, not to what group(s) she happens to be part of.
  - username444 7y ago
    This. She was also white. And blonde. And non LGBT. And non obese. Are all these groups now disadvantaged?
    - IshKebab 7y ago
      No because it's not unusual for company founders to be any of those things in America.
    - trazire 7y ago
      According to Bad Blood, she had an ED.
  - bassman9000 7y ago
    This is the right response. Let's remember it on any occasion, for any group an individual may belong to.
- gumby 7y ago
  I think it's not talked about because it's not really relevant (I know that's circular, but so is the question). I don't believe anyone gave her a pass because she was a woman (typically, sadly, the opposite is the case anyway). I think she did get a pass because she was young and well spoken, but again, that's common with young well-spoken men as well. I think what is not adequately discussed is the "affinity fraud" aspect of Theranos: she got her initial funding from a parent of her childhood friends, whose house she was often over as a child. And because he is well known, the company was more easily able to recruit other investors and board members, which had the typical snowball effect.
Gibbon1 7y ago
Every time I hear of Elisabeth Holmes I get reminded of Barry Minkow and ZZZZ Best. Barry was a young attractive but shady front for a bunch of older more experienced shady characters/criminals. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/z/zzzzbest.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/z/zzzzbest.asp

56 points by lando2319 7y ago

Still should have charges related to attempted murder (knowingly incorrect testing for conditions that can easily lead to death), and some kind of charge through threats that lead to at least one person dying. We also need to stop focusing just on her and also Ramesh Balwani who was just as complicit.

afarrell 7y ago
Here is an introductory guide to criminal law. In particular, to Mens Rea, the state of mind required for crime: https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=173 https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=173 It is written by a defense attorney from NYC
- iaabtpbtpnn 7y ago
  Have you read Bad Blood? It's quite reasonably arguable that she had such a state of mind, based on the evidence.
- gnicholas 7y ago
  There's always reckless endangerment, which could potentially be shown here.

godzillabrennus 7y ago

I thought she’d take a plea deal. She really is delusional. Too bad this won’t be televised.

sjg007 7y ago
A jury trial could potentially go in her favor. Think bright young women who got in over her head, no fraudulent intent, having to explain the technology and the science to the jury etc... The only thing is that it will be quite difficult to find expert witnesses for the defense. July 2020 is close to November 2020 so it will happen at a time of maximal distraction.
- staticautomatic 7y ago
  It's possible she could win a jury trial, but if she does it'll be because there isn't enough evidence to meet the burden of proof. Finding experts is never a problem. There are always people willing to say whatever you need them to say for the right price. Also, the science being over the jurors' heads isn't really a big issue in federal court in San Francisco because the jury pool is well educated and quite scientifically literate. It's not quite as good as, say, San Jose, but it's far and away better than most parts of the country. Source: Myself. I'm a jury consultant in SF and have picked juries in Davila's court.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  She met Sunny Balwani her senior year in high school in 2002. She was 18. He was 37 and married. I think they moved in together in 2005. She publicly claimed to be celibate and single-mindedly devoted to her company. He worked for Theranos for some years. Even her board had no idea they were romantically involved. I wonder how much of a role their relationship played in this becoming a debacle and how reasonable it would be for her to claim she was taken advantage of by him. https://www.bustle.com/p/whats-sunny-balwani-doing-in-2019-elizabeth-holmess-theranos-partner-is-facing-charges-16819659 https://www.bustle.com/p/whats-sunny-balwani-doing-in-2019-e... I wish I had different questions about it. I'm a little disappointed to hear about their relationship. I almost liked it better when I was wondering if she was secretly sleeping with multiple board members or something and playing them all for a fool. Women being nothing but the playthings of men is such a tired trope.
staticautomatic 7y ago
It's possible she wasn't offered a plea, or was offered one so unattractive that she'd rather roll the dice on a trial.
lern_too_spel 7y ago
"Another theory circulating amongst ex-Theranos employees, he says, is that 'Holmes is gong to get pregnant before she gets on the stand because she will look very sympathetic as a pregnant woman on the stand.'" https://www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/a28037091/elizabeth-holmes-wedding-what-to-know/ https://www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/a28037091/elizabeth...

DoreenMichele 7y ago

She was a media darling in part because she was a female founder. I wonder how much damage she's done to the ability of women to get taken seriously. I don't ever really see that angle talked about.

Reedx 7y ago
It doesn't change anything if you view her as an individual. She did damage to her own reputation, not to what group(s) she happens to be part of.
- username444 7y ago
  This. She was also white. And blonde. And non LGBT. And non obese. Are all these groups now disadvantaged?
  - IshKebab 7y ago
    No because it's not unusual for company founders to be any of those things in America.
  - trazire 7y ago
    According to Bad Blood, she had an ED.
- bassman9000 7y ago
  This is the right response. Let's remember it on any occasion, for any group an individual may belong to.
gumby 7y ago
I think it's not talked about because it's not really relevant (I know that's circular, but so is the question). I don't believe anyone gave her a pass because she was a woman (typically, sadly, the opposite is the case anyway). I think she did get a pass because she was young and well spoken, but again, that's common with young well-spoken men as well. I think what is not adequately discussed is the "affinity fraud" aspect of Theranos: she got her initial funding from a parent of her childhood friends, whose house she was often over as a child. And because he is well known, the company was more easily able to recruit other investors and board members, which had the typical snowball effect.

Gibbon1 7y ago

Every time I hear of Elisabeth Holmes I get reminded of Barry Minkow and ZZZZ Best. Barry was a young attractive but shady front for a bunch of older more experienced shady characters/criminals. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/z/zzzzbest.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/z/zzzzbest.asp