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I'm a mouse user (who actually really liked both the much maligned mighty mouse and magic mouse), but when it came to track pads, I hated that Apple didn't have

I'm a mouse user (who actually really liked both the much maligned mighty mouse and magic mouse), but when it came to track pads, I hated that Apple didn't have physical buttons for the trackpad. My hand eye coordination on trackpads has never been great (and I'm not getting any younger), and I've always had issues with taps as clicks. I've since switched back to Windows, and it drives me nuts that all the PC laptops that follow Apple's design lead that have dropped the physical trackpad buttons. Thankfully most of the business and "pro" laptops still have them.

foldr 7y ago
The haptic trackpads on the newer macbooks are perfect for this. You can click anywhere on the pad and the amount of pressure required is exactly the same. It's not tap to click, because you need to actually press down for a click to register.
- slantyyz 7y ago
  They aren't for me. While I would say Macs have always had excellent pads, I still hated them. I want to be able to have a finger on a physical button that doesn't detect any touch movements when dragging something.
  - foldr 7y ago
    >I want to be able to have a finger on a physical button that doesn't detect any touch movements when dragging something. But dragging works exactly the same as it does when you have a physical button. You press down with one finger and make the dragging motion with another. You can click and drag with a single finger if you want to (as I've just discovered - never occurred to me to do it that way), but you don't have to.
    - slantyyz 7y ago
      I have always found strange things to happen when my held down finger (on the "virtual button") moves too much or changes pressure - on both Windows and Mac. That's just one more thing to think about in the back of my head. I especially hate the click and drag with a single finger, especially if I have multiple external monitors connected. Personally, I prefer that a physical button only has two states (on/off), and that there be a physical division between the left and right buttons (so I don't have to look down and see whether my thumb is "over enough" - on a buttonless pad, it seems to never be over enough to the right when I want a context menu). In the end, I just want the track pad to track, and buttons to be buttons. I don't want a unified trackpad with buttons and a software-based solution to guess what I'm trying to do. This is just me and my use case, obviously ymmv.
      - foldr 7y ago
        >I have always found strange things to happen when my held down finger (on the "virtual button") moves too much All that happens is that the item you're dragging makes a corresponding movement.
        slantyyz 7y ago
        Yes, but when you're trying to position something precisely, that's a problem. This doesn't happen when you have a physical button that only has an on/off state. Keep in mind, I hate trackpads because I'm generally clumsy with them. That's just how I am. I get that it's not an issue for other people who have better hand-eye coordination.
    - username90 7y ago
      > But dragging works exactly the same as it does when you have a physical button. No it doesn't, if I press down with the side of my thumb and then move around my index finger the thumb will rotate. On a physical button that doesn't matter but on a virtual button the thumbs movement will also move around the pointer. Using the thumb for buttons and index and long for trackpad is much faster and more accurate than using virtual buttons in my experience, not as good as a mouse but close.
      - zapzupnz 7y ago
        I've been sitting here for a good minute trying to make my thumb rotate the way you've described on my Magic Trackpad (no hardware buttons) and it simply isn't doing that. > Using the thumb for buttons and long for trackpad I disagree. When I want to drag and precisely position something, I use three finger dragging. They've hidden it recent versions of macOS under Accessibility, but I find it much simpler and more precise than having to do finger gymnastics.
        username90 7y ago
        Right, you can't do it without hardware buttons. However with hardware buttons below the track-pad I can easily use it with either hand alone and still be fast and accurate. Therefore having hardware buttons below the trackpad is necessary for me, it is so much better than using anything else feels horrible. Edit: Rereading my original post I guess it is possible to think that I say that virtual buttons are better. What I meant that the thumb rotating like that on the trackpad screws everything up. Sorry that I wasn't clear.
        zapzupnz 7y ago
        But one's thumb doesn't rotate like that. If one needs to make one's thumb rotate to use a trackpad with a thumb and another finger, that trackpad must be the size of a sheet of paper. I'm probably misunderstanding. I think I'd need a video to understand what you mean.
      - foldr 7y ago
  - __david__ 7y ago
    You have to turn off "Tap to click" in the touchpad preferences. I can't remember if it is on by default or not, but it's the one thing I can't deal with. Any sort of accidental brush acts like a click and that's annoying, which sounds like what you are complaining about.
    - foldr 7y ago
      It's not on by default, which is what puzzles me about slantyyz's comments. I can't imagine anyone finding clicking and dragging more difficult on a macbook than on another laptop.
      - slantyyz 7y ago
        I usually turn them off. I find clicking and dragging more difficult on laptops without physical buttons (Macbook and Windows) than laptops with physical trackpad buttons. YMMV

foldr 7y ago

The haptic trackpads on the newer macbooks are perfect for this. You can click anywhere on the pad and the amount of pressure required is exactly the same. It's not tap to click, because you need to actually press down for a click to register.

slantyyz 7y ago
They aren't for me. While I would say Macs have always had excellent pads, I still hated them. I want to be able to have a finger on a physical button that doesn't detect any touch movements when dragging something.
- foldr 7y ago
  >I want to be able to have a finger on a physical button that doesn't detect any touch movements when dragging something. But dragging works exactly the same as it does when you have a physical button. You press down with one finger and make the dragging motion with another. You can click and drag with a single finger if you want to (as I've just discovered - never occurred to me to do it that way), but you don't have to.
  - slantyyz 7y ago
    I have always found strange things to happen when my held down finger (on the "virtual button") moves too much or changes pressure - on both Windows and Mac. That's just one more thing to think about in the back of my head. I especially hate the click and drag with a single finger, especially if I have multiple external monitors connected. Personally, I prefer that a physical button only has two states (on/off), and that there be a physical division between the left and right buttons (so I don't have to look down and see whether my thumb is "over enough" - on a buttonless pad, it seems to never be over enough to the right when I want a context menu). In the end, I just want the track pad to track, and buttons to be buttons. I don't want a unified trackpad with buttons and a software-based solution to guess what I'm trying to do. This is just me and my use case, obviously ymmv.
    - foldr 7y ago
      >I have always found strange things to happen when my held down finger (on the "virtual button") moves too much All that happens is that the item you're dragging makes a corresponding movement.
      - slantyyz 7y ago
        Yes, but when you're trying to position something precisely, that's a problem. This doesn't happen when you have a physical button that only has an on/off state. Keep in mind, I hate trackpads because I'm generally clumsy with them. That's just how I am. I get that it's not an issue for other people who have better hand-eye coordination.
  - username90 7y ago
    > But dragging works exactly the same as it does when you have a physical button. No it doesn't, if I press down with the side of my thumb and then move around my index finger the thumb will rotate. On a physical button that doesn't matter but on a virtual button the thumbs movement will also move around the pointer. Using the thumb for buttons and index and long for trackpad is much faster and more accurate than using virtual buttons in my experience, not as good as a mouse but close.
    - zapzupnz 7y ago
      I've been sitting here for a good minute trying to make my thumb rotate the way you've described on my Magic Trackpad (no hardware buttons) and it simply isn't doing that. > Using the thumb for buttons and long for trackpad I disagree. When I want to drag and precisely position something, I use three finger dragging. They've hidden it recent versions of macOS under Accessibility, but I find it much simpler and more precise than having to do finger gymnastics.
      - username90 7y ago
        Right, you can't do it without hardware buttons. However with hardware buttons below the track-pad I can easily use it with either hand alone and still be fast and accurate. Therefore having hardware buttons below the trackpad is necessary for me, it is so much better than using anything else feels horrible. Edit: Rereading my original post I guess it is possible to think that I say that virtual buttons are better. What I meant that the thumb rotating like that on the trackpad screws everything up. Sorry that I wasn't clear.
        zapzupnz 7y ago
        But one's thumb doesn't rotate like that. If one needs to make one's thumb rotate to use a trackpad with a thumb and another finger, that trackpad must be the size of a sheet of paper. I'm probably misunderstanding. I think I'd need a video to understand what you mean.
    - foldr 7y ago
- __david__ 7y ago
  You have to turn off "Tap to click" in the touchpad preferences. I can't remember if it is on by default or not, but it's the one thing I can't deal with. Any sort of accidental brush acts like a click and that's annoying, which sounds like what you are complaining about.
  - foldr 7y ago
    It's not on by default, which is what puzzles me about slantyyz's comments. I can't imagine anyone finding clicking and dragging more difficult on a macbook than on another laptop.
    - slantyyz 7y ago
      I usually turn them off. I find clicking and dragging more difficult on laptops without physical buttons (Macbook and Windows) than laptops with physical trackpad buttons. YMMV