6 ms·

If I want to get 10 GB of RAW photos onto my 2013 MacBook Pro, I just pop the SD card out of the camera and into the laptop. Transfer is done in about a minute

If I want to get 10 GB of RAW photos onto my 2013 MacBook Pro, I just pop the SD card out of the camera and into the laptop. Transfer is done in about a minute or two. No SD card reader means the new MBP just couldn’t do this without dongles, full stop. That’s a step backwards.

robinmayfair 7y ago
“Full Stop” is always a good argument. I have a USB-C card reader which I guarantee you is faster than the one you have. Sure, internal card readers were nice. But they’re gone from Apple now. Really not sure why people keep talking about this.
- xxs 7y ago
  >I have a USB-C card reader which I guarantee you is faster than the one you have. an extremely and misguided guarantee - any usb 3.1 reader is likely to be similar/same
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    Perhaps he's alluding to the fact that a lot of laptops have had USB2 card readers internally but USB 3 ports going out.
- bin0 7y ago
  Show me the SD card that can saturate USB 3 or USB C. The fastest sony cards top out at about 300Mbps. Heck, USB 2 could handle that at top speed (theoretically; most implementations stunk). USB C is better with really high bandwidth things like eGPU, 4k displays, etc., but sd cards are not the best argument to make here.
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    You're mixing up bits (Mb/s) and bytes (MB/s). Some SD cards are rated at up to 300MB/s, about 10x what USB2 can deliver. It often used to be the case that internal SD card readers are USB2, even when the device has an USB3 port.
  - FireBeyond 7y ago
    The fastest SD cards are 300 megabytes/second, not megabit. All my Sandisk Extreme Pro cards, for example. I also have a bunch of Extreme Pro CF cards that are 160MB/s. And then there's CFast - speeds in the 400MB/s range.
    - bin0 7y ago
      Apologies, I messed up my capitalization. That ought to have been "MB". You're right that things like compact flash are faster, but USB 3 has can handle over 600 MB per second.
      - 8note 7y ago
        you still need the card to support that speed though... I'd imagine the card reader and USB are the same speed, unless they screwed up the implementation of the reader
        bin0 7y ago
        Still not sure I understand what you mean. If you have a slower USB, slower card reader, or slower card, all components are bound by that speed. The USB 3 supports a much faster than the card speed; I'm guessing most readers are similar speed. The cards themselves are the limiting factor here.
      - FireBeyond 7y ago
        Right, but modern cards can certainly saturate USB 2.0 easily.
Eric_WVGG 7y ago
First, that's not a dongle, that's an SD card reader. A dongle would adapt a USB-A reader's plug to a USB-C plug. Second, this is a step forward. Previously, people who didn't need to carry around SD card readers had to, in the form of bulkier laptops with smaller batteries. Now, only folks who need readers have to carry them around. That's a win.
- slantyyz 7y ago
  It's not unreasonable to call an SD card reader a dongle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongle#Other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongle#Other
- oliveshell 7y ago
  I wish everybody who buys a new MacBook Pro all the best, and I hope they enjoy it. I just won’t be getting one. (The card reader was just the icing on the cake; the unreliable keyboard and failure-prone backlight ribbon cable are the main reasons I won’t buy one.) Ultrabooks exist for a reason, and my personal opinion is that it’s a bummer that the “pro“ offering is less capable and more annoying to use for media editing than it used to be.
  - slantyyz 7y ago
    Even though my last Mac, the early 2011 15" Macbook Pro, was a complete lemon in terms of execution (GPU overheating issues), I loved that design and form factor. It had all the ports I wanted, plus the end-user expandability. At one point I popped out the optical and stuck in a second SSD. Apple didn't handle the recall for the 2011 MBP problems very well. This was incredibly problematic for me, considering Apple's fantastic reputation for customer support. After that experience, I basically went back to Windows, and the transition was surprisingly smooth.
- xxs 7y ago
  Dongles have existed long before USB-C (and even A). Pretty much 'a small thingie' that has to be attached to a computer for the latter to carry some specific task. Hence, a card reader fits the dongle definition and it should be part of any laptop... There used be dongles that served copyright protection.
gridlockd 7y ago
> No SD card reader means the new MBP just couldn’t do this without dongles, full stop. So you go out and buy a dongle. Or you just connect the Camera with a cable and you don't have to fiddle with the tiny SD card. I personally never use SD cards, or any other flash cards. I never use the ethernet jack on a laptop. I very rarely use thumbdrives or other USB devices. I also don't use serial out, or PCMCIA, or compact discs, all of which still conceivably are necessary for some users. On the other hand, I always need an adapter for video out, because it's either VGA or HDMI or even DVI. So I go out and buy a dongle. I'm glad that the ports on my laptop is not the superset of all things anyone might need on there.
- slantyyz 7y ago
  The problem has less to do with dongles than having a diverse product line catering to multiple user types. Apple has basically decided to make all their laptop lines ultrabooks (which is their prerogative). And because a lot Mac users are more loyal to the OS than the hardware itself, they're stuck with what Apple is offering. As a consultant who goes to different clients, I prefer to have built-in ports as opposed to having dongles I can forget, lose or leave behind. Also, a lot of cables will wear out, and they will stop working when you need them the most (I've ruined quite a few video dongles). This is why the old unibody MBPs were so great. Yes, they were a little chunkier, but that tradeoff was well worth it for the convenience.
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    > Also, a lot of cables will wear out, and they will stop working when you need them the most (I've ruined quite a few video dongles) Okay, but if a dongle breaks, you just buy another dongle. If a video port breaks, that's a much more expensive replacement - though I suppose you can get a USB video dongle these days. On a side note, I wish that wireless video was more of a thing, given the security issues with physical connectors.
    - slantyyz 7y ago
      >> Okay, but if a dongle breaks, you just buy another dongle. Sure. But what if you're onsite somewhere and can't get one nearby? This is a huge problem if you're somewhere where you are required to use a wire for networking (these places do exist).

robinmayfair 7y ago

“Full Stop” is always a good argument. I have a USB-C card reader which I guarantee you is faster than the one you have. Sure, internal card readers were nice. But they’re gone from Apple now. Really not sure why people keep talking about this.

xxs 7y ago
>I have a USB-C card reader which I guarantee you is faster than the one you have. an extremely and misguided guarantee - any usb 3.1 reader is likely to be similar/same
- gridlockd 7y ago
  Perhaps he's alluding to the fact that a lot of laptops have had USB2 card readers internally but USB 3 ports going out.
bin0 7y ago
Show me the SD card that can saturate USB 3 or USB C. The fastest sony cards top out at about 300Mbps. Heck, USB 2 could handle that at top speed (theoretically; most implementations stunk). USB C is better with really high bandwidth things like eGPU, 4k displays, etc., but sd cards are not the best argument to make here.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  You're mixing up bits (Mb/s) and bytes (MB/s). Some SD cards are rated at up to 300MB/s, about 10x what USB2 can deliver. It often used to be the case that internal SD card readers are USB2, even when the device has an USB3 port.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  The fastest SD cards are 300 megabytes/second, not megabit. All my Sandisk Extreme Pro cards, for example. I also have a bunch of Extreme Pro CF cards that are 160MB/s. And then there's CFast - speeds in the 400MB/s range.
  - bin0 7y ago
    Apologies, I messed up my capitalization. That ought to have been "MB". You're right that things like compact flash are faster, but USB 3 has can handle over 600 MB per second.
    - 8note 7y ago
      you still need the card to support that speed though... I'd imagine the card reader and USB are the same speed, unless they screwed up the implementation of the reader
      - bin0 7y ago
        Still not sure I understand what you mean. If you have a slower USB, slower card reader, or slower card, all components are bound by that speed. The USB 3 supports a much faster than the card speed; I'm guessing most readers are similar speed. The cards themselves are the limiting factor here.
    - FireBeyond 7y ago
      Right, but modern cards can certainly saturate USB 2.0 easily.

Eric_WVGG 7y ago

First, that's not a dongle, that's an SD card reader. A dongle would adapt a USB-A reader's plug to a USB-C plug. Second, this is a step forward. Previously, people who didn't need to carry around SD card readers had to, in the form of bulkier laptops with smaller batteries. Now, only folks who need readers have to carry them around. That's a win.

slantyyz 7y ago
It's not unreasonable to call an SD card reader a dongle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongle#Other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongle#Other
oliveshell 7y ago
I wish everybody who buys a new MacBook Pro all the best, and I hope they enjoy it. I just won’t be getting one. (The card reader was just the icing on the cake; the unreliable keyboard and failure-prone backlight ribbon cable are the main reasons I won’t buy one.) Ultrabooks exist for a reason, and my personal opinion is that it’s a bummer that the “pro“ offering is less capable and more annoying to use for media editing than it used to be.
- slantyyz 7y ago
  Even though my last Mac, the early 2011 15" Macbook Pro, was a complete lemon in terms of execution (GPU overheating issues), I loved that design and form factor. It had all the ports I wanted, plus the end-user expandability. At one point I popped out the optical and stuck in a second SSD. Apple didn't handle the recall for the 2011 MBP problems very well. This was incredibly problematic for me, considering Apple's fantastic reputation for customer support. After that experience, I basically went back to Windows, and the transition was surprisingly smooth.
xxs 7y ago
Dongles have existed long before USB-C (and even A). Pretty much 'a small thingie' that has to be attached to a computer for the latter to carry some specific task. Hence, a card reader fits the dongle definition and it should be part of any laptop... There used be dongles that served copyright protection.

gridlockd 7y ago

> No SD card reader means the new MBP just couldn’t do this without dongles, full stop. So you go out and buy a dongle. Or you just connect the Camera with a cable and you don't have to fiddle with the tiny SD card. I personally never use SD cards, or any other flash cards. I never use the ethernet jack on a laptop. I very rarely use thumbdrives or other USB devices. I also don't use serial out, or PCMCIA, or compact discs, all of which still conceivably are necessary for some users. On the other hand, I always need an adapter for video out, because it's either VGA or HDMI or even DVI. So I go out and buy a dongle. I'm glad that the ports on my laptop is not the superset of all things anyone might need on there.

slantyyz 7y ago
The problem has less to do with dongles than having a diverse product line catering to multiple user types. Apple has basically decided to make all their laptop lines ultrabooks (which is their prerogative). And because a lot Mac users are more loyal to the OS than the hardware itself, they're stuck with what Apple is offering. As a consultant who goes to different clients, I prefer to have built-in ports as opposed to having dongles I can forget, lose or leave behind. Also, a lot of cables will wear out, and they will stop working when you need them the most (I've ruined quite a few video dongles). This is why the old unibody MBPs were so great. Yes, they were a little chunkier, but that tradeoff was well worth it for the convenience.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  > Also, a lot of cables will wear out, and they will stop working when you need them the most (I've ruined quite a few video dongles) Okay, but if a dongle breaks, you just buy another dongle. If a video port breaks, that's a much more expensive replacement - though I suppose you can get a USB video dongle these days. On a side note, I wish that wireless video was more of a thing, given the security issues with physical connectors.
  - slantyyz 7y ago
    >> Okay, but if a dongle breaks, you just buy another dongle. Sure. But what if you're onsite somewhere and can't get one nearby? This is a huge problem if you're somewhere where you are required to use a wire for networking (these places do exist).