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"Red danger" does indeed seem to be the narrative that western politicians, the US in particular, are pushing today. There always has to be some fear-based nar

"Red danger" does indeed seem to be the narrative that western politicians, the US in particular, are pushing today. There always has to be some fear-based narrative involving the boogeyman de jour - the Russians, the Chinese, Islamic extremists, cyberwar whatever. Any one will do, anything to deflect from real problems at home. God I detest the politics of today :(

Kirth 7y ago
How would you propose to fix these; what system, according to you, would not have the same flaws as the current ones? There being an Us and a Them has been the way forward for most of human civilization's existence.
- chii 7y ago
  > an Us and a Them has been the way forward for most of human civilization's existence. and so was slavery for a long time. Humanity needs to shed the tribalism from which it was forged. The current political paradigm requires that the politicians to divide and conquer, because most people aren't able to really see what's real and what's propaganda (which makes propaganda so effective). I don't have a solution to this problem unfortunately, but until this is solved, world climate change or inter-planetary colonization (or any other big endeavour) won't happen.
- GordonS 7y ago
  I think democracy is the least-worst option. But western countries are slowly-slowly creeping towards something else, something bordering on Orwellian. They hype the boogeyman de jour to the nth degree, using fear, uncertainty and doubt to control the populace and justify ever-more overarching anti-privacy, anti-encryption, and mass surveillance laws. It's at the point where it seems like most people now accept such sweeping controls, because of course it's all to keep them safe. They start wars based on faked evidence and the flimsiest of reasoning. War crimes are covered up and whistleblowers treated as the villans - non-western lives mean nothing to these people, who will do everything they can to grab more power, and enrich their coffers and that of their cronies. So, it's not just about the choice of political system, or "Them and Us" - it's also about the profiteering, corruption, cronyism and borderline megalomaniac that have somehow become normalised. Perhaps worst of all is the simply staggering hypocrisy.
throw0101a 7y ago
The fear of Islamic terrorism is mostly BS, and the cyberwar stuff is a manageable risk. However, the "red danger" of the Soviets was (IMHO) an existential risk to freedom--just as the Poles why they fought for free multi-party elections. The rising influence of China, a totalitarian state, is a cause for concern. Why would you think a dictatorship growing more powerful is a good thing? > Any one will do, anything to deflect from real problems at home. As a society/civilization, I would think it would be possible to walk and chew gum at the same time: raise concerns about bad actors abroad and try to solve domestic problems.
- futureastronaut 7y ago
  China is neither totalitarian nor is it a dictatorship. It is an authoritarian single-party state, but let's not play fast and loose with classification here.
  - henryfjordan 7y ago
    Single party state == Totalitarian From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism: > Totalitarianism is a political concept of a mode of government that prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    See Article 1 of the CN Constitution: > Article 1. The People's Republic of China is a socialist state under the people's democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants. The socialist system is the basic system of the People's Republic of China. Sabotage of the socialist system by any organization or individual is prohibited. * http://www.npc.gov.cn/englishnpc/Constitution/2007-11/15/content_1372963.htm http://www.npc.gov.cn/englishnpc/Constitution/2007-11/15/con...
- GordonS 7y ago
  > However, the "red danger" of the Soviets was (IMHO) an existential risk to freedom "was" being the operative word, although I think the reality was more nuanced than "those commies are gonna get us!". > The rising influence of China, a totalitarian state, is a cause for concern. Why would you think a dictatorship growing more powerful is a good thing? It's not totalitarian state or a dictatorship. I also didn't say the rising influence of China was a good thing - but I'm not saying it's a terrible thing either. What I do find to be of concern, is western politics, corruption, FUD spreading and war-mongering.

Kirth 7y ago

How would you propose to fix these; what system, according to you, would not have the same flaws as the current ones? There being an Us and a Them has been the way forward for most of human civilization's existence.

chii 7y ago
> an Us and a Them has been the way forward for most of human civilization's existence. and so was slavery for a long time. Humanity needs to shed the tribalism from which it was forged. The current political paradigm requires that the politicians to divide and conquer, because most people aren't able to really see what's real and what's propaganda (which makes propaganda so effective). I don't have a solution to this problem unfortunately, but until this is solved, world climate change or inter-planetary colonization (or any other big endeavour) won't happen.
GordonS 7y ago
I think democracy is the least-worst option. But western countries are slowly-slowly creeping towards something else, something bordering on Orwellian. They hype the boogeyman de jour to the nth degree, using fear, uncertainty and doubt to control the populace and justify ever-more overarching anti-privacy, anti-encryption, and mass surveillance laws. It's at the point where it seems like most people now accept such sweeping controls, because of course it's all to keep them safe. They start wars based on faked evidence and the flimsiest of reasoning. War crimes are covered up and whistleblowers treated as the villans - non-western lives mean nothing to these people, who will do everything they can to grab more power, and enrich their coffers and that of their cronies. So, it's not just about the choice of political system, or "Them and Us" - it's also about the profiteering, corruption, cronyism and borderline megalomaniac that have somehow become normalised. Perhaps worst of all is the simply staggering hypocrisy.

throw0101a 7y ago

The fear of Islamic terrorism is mostly BS, and the cyberwar stuff is a manageable risk. However, the "red danger" of the Soviets was (IMHO) an existential risk to freedom--just as the Poles why they fought for free multi-party elections. The rising influence of China, a totalitarian state, is a cause for concern. Why would you think a dictatorship growing more powerful is a good thing? > Any one will do, anything to deflect from real problems at home. As a society/civilization, I would think it would be possible to walk and chew gum at the same time: raise concerns about bad actors abroad and try to solve domestic problems.

futureastronaut 7y ago
China is neither totalitarian nor is it a dictatorship. It is an authoritarian single-party state, but let's not play fast and loose with classification here.
- henryfjordan 7y ago
  Single party state == Totalitarian From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism: > Totalitarianism is a political concept of a mode of government that prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life
- throw0101a 7y ago
  See Article 1 of the CN Constitution: > Article 1. The People's Republic of China is a socialist state under the people's democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants. The socialist system is the basic system of the People's Republic of China. Sabotage of the socialist system by any organization or individual is prohibited. * http://www.npc.gov.cn/englishnpc/Constitution/2007-11/15/content_1372963.htm http://www.npc.gov.cn/englishnpc/Constitution/2007-11/15/con...
GordonS 7y ago
> However, the "red danger" of the Soviets was (IMHO) an existential risk to freedom "was" being the operative word, although I think the reality was more nuanced than "those commies are gonna get us!". > The rising influence of China, a totalitarian state, is a cause for concern. Why would you think a dictatorship growing more powerful is a good thing? It's not totalitarian state or a dictatorship. I also didn't say the rising influence of China was a good thing - but I'm not saying it's a terrible thing either. What I do find to be of concern, is western politics, corruption, FUD spreading and war-mongering.