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Netflix: Culture of Fear

282 points by ardit33 16y ago

doorty 16y ago
The fear prevents innovation? They just started a streaming only plan and have clients on many mobile devices, dvd/blu-ray players, and gaming systems. They went from owning the movie rental space to the movie streaming space. I think they're doing alright.
aresant 16y ago
Cynic in me wonders if this post is tied to the recent frenzy around traders shorting Netflix? Even a few of the supporting comments feel scripted. Say this because Netflix seems to have great luck attracting people that I respect personally and their culture building and HR practices are fairly lauded elsewhere . . .
- ardit33 16y ago
  I did post this (the link of the review) because I have heard from multiple people (in person) about their culture. Netflix seems to have the sports team philosophy "Put the best guy in place for the job", and if that job changes and that person is not the best fit they will fire that person and find somebody else instead of some retraining. The original "Netflix culture slide" were just an attempt to rationalize (and romanticize) their behavior, instead of "we will use you and throw you out if you are not to the exact fit", to "we want only the best people to work with us". A lot of people in the start up community thought that those slides (and Netflix's culture) was really cool, but the reality seems very un-rosy. I think it is good too look beyond the PR. As somebody mentioned on one of the comments, looks like their culture came from "Logan's Run". As an engineer I have been contacted many times by Netflix recruiters, and that's why I started digging down a bit more into it. If you are an employer of Netflix, just consider yourself as a glorified contractor. I found this link from this question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Does-the-Netflix-work-culture-create-a-culture-of-fear-amongst-its-employees http://www.quora.com/Does-the-Netflix-work-culture-create-a-...
  - brown9-2 16y ago
    The Quora question, the linked-to blog post, etc, are all based around the same two glassdoor articles. Are you sure you aren't basing your judgment on just a small handful of opinions?
    - deleted 16y ago
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      - ardit33 16y ago
        Sorry, but this comment is a bit of an ad hominem. I am an old member of the HN community, and pretty in tune with the startup community (been to one before my current job) Lets just say that my day to day job has nothing to do with me posting this. At the end of the day I am just an engineer as most people in here.
        d2viant 16y ago
        Then perhaps I'm missing something. Clarify for me, were you ever an employee there? The reason I ask is because it's on a website for employees to review their own company -- which is how most people interpret those reviews. Moreover, the review says it's from a Netflix employee -- specifically a Netflix Manager. I guess it's fine if you have an opinion and want to post it, but if none of the above is true, why not be honest in your review that it isn't based on experience?
        mccutchen 16y ago
        I don't think he's making any claims that this comes from first person experience.
        brown9-2 16y ago
        ardit33 did not write the glassdoor review.
        16y ago
- hugh3 16y ago
  The cynic in me is cynical of your attempts to find grand conspiracies where "standard-ass disgruntled ex-employee" would suffice. If I could short a company and then collapse its stock price by posting "wah this company sucks to work for" rants on glassdoor.com, I'd be very rich by now.
  - j_baker 16y ago
    The cynic in me is cynical of your attempts to disagree with someone whose ultimate point is the same as yours: that this review is without merit.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      Oh, I don't think it's the same point. Under one scenario it's a completely made-up review invented by somebody with a somewhat odd strategy towards stock price manipulation. Under my scenario, it's of some value, because it tells you what exactly it is about Netflix which people who hate working at Netflix hate about working at Netflix. I wouldn't make it my sole data point if I were trying to understand what it's like to work at Netflix, either way.
- jrockway 16y ago
  I think some people have different "career goals" than other people. Some people want to show up and keep their chair warm from 9-5 every day for 4 years, to get their small pay increase and title bump. Others want to come into the company with the title "Awesome Excellent Programmer", work on something cool, and leave the company after they've done something interesting with the title "Awesome Excellent Programmer". These people do not get upset when they are not promoted for doing nothing, and do not tend to write bad reviews. They also tend to be the better programmers. (I realized this recently. To get a bump up in my title and salary at my current job, I basically have to "serve my time". The fact that I'm much better at programming than other people does not accelerate the process; promoting me now would make the "time" that others have put in less meaningful. If I was promoted, then they would all quit and write bitter reviews like the one linked in this thread. "This company sucks, all they do is hire long-haired hippies that tell me to write tests! I have 20 years of experience, why would they let this nobody have a minimally meaningful title!?", it would read. Now, if it was my company, I would want highly-paid people that can't program to leave. But I am not a highly-paid person that can't program, and they make the rules. Oh well, at least I get a good laugh.)
  - Periodic 16y ago
    I realized this is how it is at my current employer too. They have very strict processes around this to manage seniority. For example, I am currently at a lower title (level 2) than another developer on my team (level 3) who I spend at least half an hour a day managing and coaching. We have to be very diligent with code reviews for this person because there is a lot of stuff they miss. I feel like they would be a good fit for a junior (level 1). However, they've put in their five years and received their promotions and pay raises. They have a lot of process tied to seniority. You can only get a title increase every few years and no more than one title at a time without a review all the way up to the VP. You can't ask for more vacation as it is formulaic and HR isn't interested in making exceptions. This is definitely a company for those who like to keep their seat warm and then go home to their families in the evenings, all the while enjoying the job security and lack of autonomy. Since my interview at Google didn't pan out, I'm working on a startup on the side to keep myself sane. In the mean time I reason it will be a good experience of what not to do.
- iterationx 16y ago
  See "The Future of Netflix: Studios look to renegotiate as licensing deals expire" http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=415361 http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=415361
randall 16y ago
Just in case you're living under a startup-free rock, here's Netflix's culture deck from last year which could potentially jive with the Glassdoor-er's view. http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664
brown9-2 16y ago
The part about "fear", or the high pay and low benefits, shouldn't be surprising if you are familiar with Netflix's values. They place employee performance above all else and strive to create a place where high performers want to work - which means getting rid of anyone who isn't one. Their values are to give employees huge amounts of freedom and responsibility and to let the individual's decide what to do with that, for the good of the company. See the slideshows at http://www.netflix.com/Jobs http://www.netflix.com/Jobs. As for the validity of this review, I find it hard to believe that even all the way back in May 2010 someone could think that Netflix's streaming business wasn't already a success: So you guys did one thing well, a long time ago, and you've been marginally improving that business (DVD rental) ever since. Your astoundingly high turnover rate worked in that world, because all the processes were in place. But now you are trying to get into the streaming business, and that business only runs with knowledge workers at the helm. edit: I think it's certainly possible to mistake "a culture of high demand for high performance" for "a culture of fear" if your only experience at the company is one in which you were deemed to not be a performer. But as an outsider, I can see why Netflix values and wants to create this culture and I admire them for striving and sticking to it. I'd also like to point out that of the majority of reviews posted with the word "software" in the title, the majority seem to rate working at Netflix a 4 or a 5, although with a few 1's and 2's in there.
- smysore 16y ago
  The culture slides on Netflix's job site do make it seem like a scary place to work but at least they are transparent about what it's like to be employed there..
  - brown9-2 16y ago
    Right, that was the point I was trying to make - how can anyone be surprised at what you find there when they advertise it so well? Personally I wouldn't expect "a culture of fear" going in but I'd at least have a pretty good idea that I need to perform, and produce high quality stuff, to survive there.
    - 16y ago
ghshephard 16y ago
Not willing to take risks? Find me another major company making (and apparently succeeding) these types of moves into the Cloud. See: http://www.slideshare.net/adrianco http://www.slideshare.net/adrianco I challenge anyone to walk through Adrian's DevOps slides of what they are up to at Netflix and suggest that they aren't getting shit done this year: http://www.slideshare.net/adrianco/netflix-on-cloud-combined-slides-for-dev-and-ops http://www.slideshare.net/adrianco/netflix-on-cloud-combined... With that said - yes, Netflix does chew up people and spit them out pretty quickly. I know a number of people who are moderately successful other places that didn't do so well in Netflix's rather meritocratic environment. It's almost cliche now, but it bears repeating, at "Netflix they reward adequate performance with a generous severance." The pay is actually pretty good over there. Network Engineers (the ones that can manage to hang onto their jobs) make about $30K more than Radford 50th percentile for the Bay Area.
- jamesaguilar 16y ago
  > than Radford 50th percentile for the Bay Area Can you give us the value rather than the symbol name, please?
  - ghshephard 16y ago
    Well - I'm not sure if it means anything to say that I've spoken with network engineers from Netflix who make from $130K - $185K, but there you go. Those numbers, by themselves, don't actually mean anything. $185K is undervalued for a Sr. Network Architect. $130K might be good, bad, great, or average - depending on what your responsibilities are. A better way of looking at it, is if you have two job opportunities, one at Netflix, and one at a bog-standard Radord 50th percentile silicon valley company, my anecdotes (four) indicate that that you would be looking at about $30K/year more at Netflix. With that said - Netflix isn't so much interested in 9-5 employees, as it is in entrepreneurs who can navigate the company, show leadership, and get results. It's a challenging environment for an employee that looks for hands-on management.
    - artsrc 16y ago
mithaler 16y ago
Sounds awful until you click on the Reviews link at the top and find many mixed opinions on the same subject. (I stopped clicking through the reviews when it made me log in to keep looking at them though.) A bunch seem to agree on the high turnover thing, but some don't seem terribly bothered by that, citing it as a great experience nonetheless (and I haven't seen any others claiming the same stressful don't-screw-up-a-single-time-or-you're-fired attitude). Interestingly, the main thing I'd known before about Netflix's employees was their famous vacation policy, and I haven't seen any reviews there mentioning it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/7945719/Netflix-lets-its-staff-take-as-much-holiday-as-they-want-whenever-they-want-and-it-works.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnol...
ericd 16y ago
This review doesn't jive with the apparent performance of the company in the market. They're the front-runner in an extremely tough space with hostile partners, and even more amazingly, they did this while starting as a company that ships physical goods around the country. There aren't too many things that are harder than moving away from a successful business model, but they've done it really well. They don't appear to be afraid to innovate at all. Hell, they even started making their own hardware (Roku).
- yannickt 16y ago
  Many tech companies perform well despite the (poor) treatment they give their employees. Amazon is not particularly well rated on Glassdoor, and I've heard plenty of horror stories about EA (and other game companies) from people I trust.
  - wyclif 16y ago
    Good observation, particularly using Amazon as an example. As a former employee, I just nodded my head.
  - ericd 16y ago
    You're right, but I wasn't saying they don't treat people badly, just that it doesn't seem likely that his characterization of the company's attitude towards innovation was accurate.
- astrofinch 16y ago
  Didn't they have some public contest to see who could come up with the best movie recommendation algorithm? That seemed pretty bold and innovative.
  - mwsfc 16y ago
    That's also a potentially cheap way to solve a vexing problem when you have a limited resource pool (ie your employees).
stoney 16y ago
> Sure, if I fired all the employees every few years I'd stay away from process too. I think I'd do the opposite - if employee churn was high I'd want to be damn sure that well documented processes were in place so replacements could get up to speed quickly.
weaksauce 16y ago
Is it really 20% turnover for knowledge workers or across the whole company? I am sure that turnover rate for the envelope stuffing must be very high. Those types of jobs always have high turnover.
- deleted 16y ago
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lukev 16y ago
It feels like the author of this is an corporate lifer who isn't comfortable with being actually responsible for product performance, or without being able to shelter behind hide-bound processes. Some process is needed, sure, but large companies are far more likely to be held back by overly rigid processes and lack of agility than lack of process. If anything, this makes me more impressed with Netflix, that they've managed to maintain a more startup-like culture despite being a huge company. It's not for all employees, sure, and it's absolutely within this guy's rights to find a position more comfortable for him. But after reading this I'm even more inclined to invest in Netflix. Once a company solidifies its processes and acquires parasitic employees, it's well past middle age and is unlikely to do anything remarkable.
- philwelch 16y ago
  It feels like you didn't critically read the review, and are just trying to impose your own interpretation on top of it. Processes and lack of agility come into place in a mature company as risk-aversion. If the company is scared to fuck up, they introduce processes to prevent fuckups, even though those processes also dampen remarkable innovations. Judging from the Glassdoor review, Netflix's firing strategy has the same effect--individual employees don't want to fuck up, so individual employees adopt a risk-averse cover-your-ass strategy, which also happens to dampen remarkable innovations. A culture like that has the same lack of agility and infestation from parasitic lifers, they just happen to add heaps of politics, stress, and unhappiness on top of it.
  - lukev 16y ago
    Except that everything I've read about Netflix indicates that they're not risk-averse. They seem to be innovating in just the right areas. And yeah, I may be reading into it, since I have some frustration with large, process ridden organizations right now. I'm just saying, this is only one guy's take.
    - alnayyir 16y ago
      This isn't the right place for you to project your frustrations and prejudices.
jey 16y ago
Does this glassdoor post apply to engineering/creative roles too? I don't think that destroying morale is productive, but I could at least understand what they were trying to do if this only applies to their warehouse/fulfillment/etc operations: if you don't stuff enough envelopes fast enough, or encode and annotate movies fast enough, or deal with customer service calls efficiently enough, it can make sense to replace you with someone who does.
- bloggergirl 16y ago
  Creative roles? Have you seen the Netflix creative? It was last updated in 2004. I don't think they have creative roles. ;)
Umalu 16y ago
It is rare to see a truly performance-based employment system at a company because, as this post (and the comments) show, in order to execute well you have to continuously cull the low performers from the herd. This creates a culture of fear, especially in those likeliest to be culled. This is not unique to Netflix -- each year General Electric culls the bottom percentile of its management. The trick is to have performance criteria that are clearly understood so that the process is not arbitrary and capricious. Companies that do not cull low performers tend to attract low-performers who ultimately ensure that the company itself gets culled. It's a tough world out there.
- conover 16y ago
  Unless you work in government, then your company can't be culled.
bloggergirl 16y ago
I've read exactly the same thing about Netflix hundreds of times on Glassdoor ------ almost every review says the same thing: fear for your job. My partner was offered a job there and decided against it after reading some of those reviews. Not cool for any company --- especially a supposedly cool tech co --- to fire people as their employees say they do. When you read the details of these Glassdoor posts, you'll see just how rough some Netflix employees have it.
radioactive21 16y ago
I've actually heard both good and bad about Netflix, but the the negative experience told was not as bad as stated in this post. Maybe it's more or less the unit that you're with at Netflix?
AndrewWarner 16y ago
If anyone at Netflix wants to do a Mixergy interview about how this works, even anonymously, contact me. If this is really how things are there, I want to understand why it works.
BlazingFrog 16y ago
I don't know if the culture at Netflix is to blame but I've been noticing more and more how poorly designed their consumer-facing interfaces were. The UI "feel" on the web site strikes me as aged where there's so much that could be done to make me want spend the extra $15/month to upgrade my membership. I won't even mention the iPhone/iPad apps that are nothing more than a very weak implementation of an HTML iFrame.
ben1040 16y ago
From this post, it sounds like they only took the stick from the Jack Welch approach (firing the bottom 10%) and not the carrot (rewarding the top 20% for doing well and coaching the middle 70% to improve).
- puredemo 16y ago
  In my experience, this strategy works remarkably well.
c2 16y ago
Any company culture is going to have it's controversies. Personally I think too many companies hang on to ineffectual employees for too long. I read the Netflix slide deck and didn't see anything I didn't immediately agree with. I would not hold their culture against them when looking for a job there. The one thing I thought was a bit off was "you should ask your manager if they would fight for you to stay". IMO - if the employee is having a performance issue, the manager should bring it up not the employee.
- c2 16y ago
  Unrelated, but it's also kind of frustrating to put time and thought into a comment and then to be drive by down voted. If you disagree with my comment (which in and of itself is not really a good reason to down vote), then please reply with words. I am happy to have a discussion and talk about it. We both might learn something.
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male_salmon 16y ago
I work at Netflix and I cannot say that my experience reflects this particular review. I like working here because my coworkers are intelligent and I get to work on exciting projects. The slides we have on the jobs page are fairly accurate. That said, I can't completely discount other people's experience since I only have my own experience to go on. It would seem that folks are let go because their skills are no longer relevant or they don't perform to par. This does not necessarily indicate that the person is a poor employee, but that he/she was not able to deliver given a particular context.
jallmann 16y ago
No benefits? Really? None at all?
- male_salmon 16y ago
  Not true. I have health benefits (incl. dental and vision), FSA, free lunch, coffee, snacks, soda, etc.
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telemachos 16y ago
A tangential question: the Netflix culture slidedeck[1] mentions that as of about 2004, there's no vacation policy and tracking. This is supposed to be a good thing (less rules == more better, say the slides), and maybe it is. But I wonder: does anyone have experience in such an environment? My concern would be that everyone takes less and less vacation in a competitive or just fearful spiral. [1] http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 (slides 63-68)
zhyder 16y ago
No health benefits, really? That should be really easy to verify objectively. Can someone here corroborate that?
- male_salmon 16y ago
  Not true. I have health benefits from Netflix.
  - harryh 16y ago
    The post seemed to indicate "no health benefits for family members" which is a benefit that many tech companies offer. Can you comment on that?
    - male_salmon 16y ago
      Not true. You can opt for family coverage but there are more out-of-pocket costs for the employee. I don't know how this compares with other companies though.
jacobmg 16y ago
Perhaps this explains one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen from a corporate blog in a long time? http://blog.netflix.com/2009/06/closed-captions-and-subtitles.html http://blog.netflix.com/2009/06/closed-captions-and-subtitle... Essentially them complaining it will take a year to implement closed-captioning because silverlight can't process SAMI files automatically (basically glorified text bolding/syncing) After I read that I guessed there was something wholly wrong with their corporate culture and management.
- haploid 16y ago
  I'm not sure what your point is regarding something being wrong with their management. Are you suggesting they should migrate away from Silverlight? That they should choose a different data format? That they are probably lying about implementation time, and just don't want to do it?
  - jacobmg 16y ago
    The latter or incompetence or they just don't care enough about it to really investigate a viable solution (most probable.) Their technical reasons are invalid after all, so something is wrong, how much is the question.
pingswept 16y ago
20% annual turnover rate seems pretty low to me for a company more than 10 years old. Anyone know of statistics for comparable companies?
j_baker 16y ago
Every time I read about netflix's culture, I'm reminded of the old saying about the Model T: "you can get it in any color you want as long as it's black". The impression I get about Netflix seems to have an underlying theme of: "we give you unlimited freedom as long as you're doing the things we want you to do".
Terretta 16y ago
See Topgrading[1]: "Simply put, topgrading is the practice of packing the team with A players and clearing out the C players," Smart writes. "'A players' is defined as the top 10 percent of talent available at all salary levels--best of class. With this radical definition, you are not a topgrader until your team consists of all A players. Period." [1] http://www.amazon.com/Topgrading-Leading-Companies-Coaching-Keeping/dp/0735200491 http://www.amazon.com/Topgrading-Leading-Companies-Coaching-...
sankyo 16y ago
It seemed to me that a lot of the reviews were from people who worked in the call center, not developers, network engineers, etc. No doubt that it is quite a different experience between the two groups.
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noonespecial 16y ago
If you go and read this slide deck about Netflix's coporate culture (starting at about slide 23): http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 You might discover why there might be a "culture of fear" among the average performing employees, and why they might throw off a good bit of negativity in their hiring/firing cycle.
- binaryfinery 16y ago
  Indeed. I thought those slides were awesome. Is this all some brilliant hiring plan?
elq 16y ago
I've worked at netflix for about three years. I'm a software engineer and work on personalization. In the time I've been there, not one of the 40 or so people that I know well or work with have been fired. One person I was acquainted with was fired - no one found it surprising. Note that IT was a hellhole with firing about a year ago. Two really good people got dropped. I know more people that have quit - 3, but 1 has come back. re: pay I make far more than I've made at any of the 4 FT jobs I've had in 15 years. I'm paid a bit less on an hourly basis than my highest rate charged when I did consulting. I'm good. I was expensive. re: benefits. Netflix matches 401k, they have an ESOP, they have a unique option plan, free (decent) lunches, snacks & drinks, etc. re: health care. I'm single, my very good insurance program came out to less than $30 per paycheck since I've worked there. Next year they're changing the way insurance is done - every employee got $10k extra pay. This is intended to be used to cover the full cost of insurance, using my current benefits as a baseline it's a bit less that $8000 per year. People with dependents will almost certainly pay more. Many might be unhappy, I personally think it's fair. re: fear. I have failed many times. I have succeeded more. Perhaps I'm just an smug asshole, but I've never once felt fear for my job. re: innovation. I've personally spent more time innovating than at any other job I've had, including my last in a corporate research "lab". The glassdoor review that I wrote after 6 months - http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Netflix-RVW42606.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Netflix-RVW...
- InfinityX0 16y ago
  The final summation I have gotten from this + other things from this thread = Glassdoor is a place to review companies. Netflix may be slightly on the reputation decline from this (for most), but for me, I can, ultimately, only appreciate the brand recognition that came for a website I had previously never heard of.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  Thanks for this perspective, I appreciate it. However, you noted that the IT department (assuming IT and engineering are separate at Netflix) was overboard with firing. If the manager on Glassdoor worked there, do you think his review is more justified? Netflix's pronounced strategy is great if you have judicious and fair managers all the way up the ranks in your department, but it seems that it only takes one bad manager to spoil a large bunch of good apples; overall performance is a pretty subjective metric after all, and if you get a particularly closed-minded or prejudiced manager (and such people are plentiful in the IT and engineering sectors; those of us who work with absolutist machines all the time seem to inherit a bit more of their habits than might be desirable) and he gets annoyed at something about you or your work, I doubt it's a very long walk from "awesome excellent performer" to "adequate performer" and a severance package for your average employee. Does Netflix have guards in place to protect against that? Do you think that the situation the reviewer described could have occurred in the same company because his department had a more difficult manager on the loop? Do you think that you've stuck around because you share the views or preferred styles of the other managers, which thereby makes you "super great performer"? Do you think that the Netflix policies have a tendency to create a useless feedback loop of yes-men and groupthink? The problem with running a programming team like a sports team is the difference in transparent metrics. There's a few simple measurements for the value of an athlete, depending on perspective: if he has good name recognition, he is a valuable business asset, even if he's not really a high-scorer; if he scores a lot of points and puts your team over the top often, he's a good asset because he increases the value of your franchise by making it win more often, and so on. The metrics in engineering, especially the day-to-day engineering of going into work, working on programs, and then coming home, are much less clear.
gbk 16y ago
Is it just me or is this single job review most likely about the low level CD packing and mailing jobs (that are not covered by machines)? This does not specifically say these are tech jobs within Netflix that have this Culture of Fear. As Netflix eventually moves to streaming-only these jobs will disappear anyway.

282 points by ardit33 16y ago

The fear prevents innovation? They just started a streaming only plan and have clients on many mobile devices, dvd/blu-ray players, and gaming systems. They went from owning the movie rental space to the movie streaming space. I think they're doing alright.

aresant 16y ago

Cynic in me wonders if this post is tied to the recent frenzy around traders shorting Netflix? Even a few of the supporting comments feel scripted. Say this because Netflix seems to have great luck attracting people that I respect personally and their culture building and HR practices are fairly lauded elsewhere . . .

ardit33 16y ago
I did post this (the link of the review) because I have heard from multiple people (in person) about their culture. Netflix seems to have the sports team philosophy "Put the best guy in place for the job", and if that job changes and that person is not the best fit they will fire that person and find somebody else instead of some retraining. The original "Netflix culture slide" were just an attempt to rationalize (and romanticize) their behavior, instead of "we will use you and throw you out if you are not to the exact fit", to "we want only the best people to work with us". A lot of people in the start up community thought that those slides (and Netflix's culture) was really cool, but the reality seems very un-rosy. I think it is good too look beyond the PR. As somebody mentioned on one of the comments, looks like their culture came from "Logan's Run". As an engineer I have been contacted many times by Netflix recruiters, and that's why I started digging down a bit more into it. If you are an employer of Netflix, just consider yourself as a glorified contractor. I found this link from this question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Does-the-Netflix-work-culture-create-a-culture-of-fear-amongst-its-employees http://www.quora.com/Does-the-Netflix-work-culture-create-a-...
- brown9-2 16y ago
  The Quora question, the linked-to blog post, etc, are all based around the same two glassdoor articles. Are you sure you aren't basing your judgment on just a small handful of opinions?
  - deleted 16y ago
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    - ardit33 16y ago
      Sorry, but this comment is a bit of an ad hominem. I am an old member of the HN community, and pretty in tune with the startup community (been to one before my current job) Lets just say that my day to day job has nothing to do with me posting this. At the end of the day I am just an engineer as most people in here.
      - d2viant 16y ago
        Then perhaps I'm missing something. Clarify for me, were you ever an employee there? The reason I ask is because it's on a website for employees to review their own company -- which is how most people interpret those reviews. Moreover, the review says it's from a Netflix employee -- specifically a Netflix Manager. I guess it's fine if you have an opinion and want to post it, but if none of the above is true, why not be honest in your review that it isn't based on experience?
        mccutchen 16y ago
        I don't think he's making any claims that this comes from first person experience.
        brown9-2 16y ago
        ardit33 did not write the glassdoor review.
        16y ago
hugh3 16y ago
The cynic in me is cynical of your attempts to find grand conspiracies where "standard-ass disgruntled ex-employee" would suffice. If I could short a company and then collapse its stock price by posting "wah this company sucks to work for" rants on glassdoor.com, I'd be very rich by now.
- j_baker 16y ago
  The cynic in me is cynical of your attempts to disagree with someone whose ultimate point is the same as yours: that this review is without merit.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    Oh, I don't think it's the same point. Under one scenario it's a completely made-up review invented by somebody with a somewhat odd strategy towards stock price manipulation. Under my scenario, it's of some value, because it tells you what exactly it is about Netflix which people who hate working at Netflix hate about working at Netflix. I wouldn't make it my sole data point if I were trying to understand what it's like to work at Netflix, either way.
jrockway 16y ago
I think some people have different "career goals" than other people. Some people want to show up and keep their chair warm from 9-5 every day for 4 years, to get their small pay increase and title bump. Others want to come into the company with the title "Awesome Excellent Programmer", work on something cool, and leave the company after they've done something interesting with the title "Awesome Excellent Programmer". These people do not get upset when they are not promoted for doing nothing, and do not tend to write bad reviews. They also tend to be the better programmers. (I realized this recently. To get a bump up in my title and salary at my current job, I basically have to "serve my time". The fact that I'm much better at programming than other people does not accelerate the process; promoting me now would make the "time" that others have put in less meaningful. If I was promoted, then they would all quit and write bitter reviews like the one linked in this thread. "This company sucks, all they do is hire long-haired hippies that tell me to write tests! I have 20 years of experience, why would they let this nobody have a minimally meaningful title!?", it would read. Now, if it was my company, I would want highly-paid people that can't program to leave. But I am not a highly-paid person that can't program, and they make the rules. Oh well, at least I get a good laugh.)
- Periodic 16y ago
  I realized this is how it is at my current employer too. They have very strict processes around this to manage seniority. For example, I am currently at a lower title (level 2) than another developer on my team (level 3) who I spend at least half an hour a day managing and coaching. We have to be very diligent with code reviews for this person because there is a lot of stuff they miss. I feel like they would be a good fit for a junior (level 1). However, they've put in their five years and received their promotions and pay raises. They have a lot of process tied to seniority. You can only get a title increase every few years and no more than one title at a time without a review all the way up to the VP. You can't ask for more vacation as it is formulaic and HR isn't interested in making exceptions. This is definitely a company for those who like to keep their seat warm and then go home to their families in the evenings, all the while enjoying the job security and lack of autonomy. Since my interview at Google didn't pan out, I'm working on a startup on the side to keep myself sane. In the mean time I reason it will be a good experience of what not to do.
iterationx 16y ago
See "The Future of Netflix: Studios look to renegotiate as licensing deals expire" http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=415361 http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=415361

randall 16y ago

Just in case you're living under a startup-free rock, here's Netflix's culture deck from last year which could potentially jive with the Glassdoor-er's view. http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664

brown9-2 16y ago

The part about "fear", or the high pay and low benefits, shouldn't be surprising if you are familiar with Netflix's values. They place employee performance above all else and strive to create a place where high performers want to work - which means getting rid of anyone who isn't one. Their values are to give employees huge amounts of freedom and responsibility and to let the individual's decide what to do with that, for the good of the company. See the slideshows at http://www.netflix.com/Jobs http://www.netflix.com/Jobs. As for the validity of this review, I find it hard to believe that even all the way back in May 2010 someone could think that Netflix's streaming business wasn't already a success: So you guys did one thing well, a long time ago, and you've been marginally improving that business (DVD rental) ever since. Your astoundingly high turnover rate worked in that world, because all the processes were in place. But now you are trying to get into the streaming business, and that business only runs with knowledge workers at the helm. edit: I think it's certainly possible to mistake "a culture of high demand for high performance" for "a culture of fear" if your only experience at the company is one in which you were deemed to not be a performer. But as an outsider, I can see why Netflix values and wants to create this culture and I admire them for striving and sticking to it. I'd also like to point out that of the majority of reviews posted with the word "software" in the title, the majority seem to rate working at Netflix a 4 or a 5, although with a few 1's and 2's in there.

smysore 16y ago
The culture slides on Netflix's job site do make it seem like a scary place to work but at least they are transparent about what it's like to be employed there..
- brown9-2 16y ago
  Right, that was the point I was trying to make - how can anyone be surprised at what you find there when they advertise it so well? Personally I wouldn't expect "a culture of fear" going in but I'd at least have a pretty good idea that I need to perform, and produce high quality stuff, to survive there.
  - 16y ago

ghshephard 16y ago

Not willing to take risks? Find me another major company making (and apparently succeeding) these types of moves into the Cloud. See: http://www.slideshare.net/adrianco http://www.slideshare.net/adrianco I challenge anyone to walk through Adrian's DevOps slides of what they are up to at Netflix and suggest that they aren't getting shit done this year: http://www.slideshare.net/adrianco/netflix-on-cloud-combined-slides-for-dev-and-ops http://www.slideshare.net/adrianco/netflix-on-cloud-combined... With that said - yes, Netflix does chew up people and spit them out pretty quickly. I know a number of people who are moderately successful other places that didn't do so well in Netflix's rather meritocratic environment. It's almost cliche now, but it bears repeating, at "Netflix they reward adequate performance with a generous severance." The pay is actually pretty good over there. Network Engineers (the ones that can manage to hang onto their jobs) make about $30K more than Radford 50th percentile for the Bay Area.

jamesaguilar 16y ago
> than Radford 50th percentile for the Bay Area Can you give us the value rather than the symbol name, please?
- ghshephard 16y ago
  Well - I'm not sure if it means anything to say that I've spoken with network engineers from Netflix who make from $130K - $185K, but there you go. Those numbers, by themselves, don't actually mean anything. $185K is undervalued for a Sr. Network Architect. $130K might be good, bad, great, or average - depending on what your responsibilities are. A better way of looking at it, is if you have two job opportunities, one at Netflix, and one at a bog-standard Radord 50th percentile silicon valley company, my anecdotes (four) indicate that that you would be looking at about $30K/year more at Netflix. With that said - Netflix isn't so much interested in 9-5 employees, as it is in entrepreneurs who can navigate the company, show leadership, and get results. It's a challenging environment for an employee that looks for hands-on management.
  - artsrc 16y ago

mithaler 16y ago

Sounds awful until you click on the Reviews link at the top and find many mixed opinions on the same subject. (I stopped clicking through the reviews when it made me log in to keep looking at them though.) A bunch seem to agree on the high turnover thing, but some don't seem terribly bothered by that, citing it as a great experience nonetheless (and I haven't seen any others claiming the same stressful don't-screw-up-a-single-time-or-you're-fired attitude). Interestingly, the main thing I'd known before about Netflix's employees was their famous vacation policy, and I haven't seen any reviews there mentioning it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/7945719/Netflix-lets-its-staff-take-as-much-holiday-as-they-want-whenever-they-want-and-it-works.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnol...

ericd 16y ago

This review doesn't jive with the apparent performance of the company in the market. They're the front-runner in an extremely tough space with hostile partners, and even more amazingly, they did this while starting as a company that ships physical goods around the country. There aren't too many things that are harder than moving away from a successful business model, but they've done it really well. They don't appear to be afraid to innovate at all. Hell, they even started making their own hardware (Roku).

yannickt 16y ago
Many tech companies perform well despite the (poor) treatment they give their employees. Amazon is not particularly well rated on Glassdoor, and I've heard plenty of horror stories about EA (and other game companies) from people I trust.
- wyclif 16y ago
  Good observation, particularly using Amazon as an example. As a former employee, I just nodded my head.
- ericd 16y ago
  You're right, but I wasn't saying they don't treat people badly, just that it doesn't seem likely that his characterization of the company's attitude towards innovation was accurate.
astrofinch 16y ago
Didn't they have some public contest to see who could come up with the best movie recommendation algorithm? That seemed pretty bold and innovative.
- mwsfc 16y ago
  That's also a potentially cheap way to solve a vexing problem when you have a limited resource pool (ie your employees).

stoney 16y ago

> Sure, if I fired all the employees every few years I'd stay away from process too. I think I'd do the opposite - if employee churn was high I'd want to be damn sure that well documented processes were in place so replacements could get up to speed quickly.

weaksauce 16y ago

Is it really 20% turnover for knowledge workers or across the whole company? I am sure that turnover rate for the envelope stuffing must be very high. Those types of jobs always have high turnover.

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lukev 16y ago

It feels like the author of this is an corporate lifer who isn't comfortable with being actually responsible for product performance, or without being able to shelter behind hide-bound processes. Some process is needed, sure, but large companies are far more likely to be held back by overly rigid processes and lack of agility than lack of process. If anything, this makes me more impressed with Netflix, that they've managed to maintain a more startup-like culture despite being a huge company. It's not for all employees, sure, and it's absolutely within this guy's rights to find a position more comfortable for him. But after reading this I'm even more inclined to invest in Netflix. Once a company solidifies its processes and acquires parasitic employees, it's well past middle age and is unlikely to do anything remarkable.

philwelch 16y ago
It feels like you didn't critically read the review, and are just trying to impose your own interpretation on top of it. Processes and lack of agility come into place in a mature company as risk-aversion. If the company is scared to fuck up, they introduce processes to prevent fuckups, even though those processes also dampen remarkable innovations. Judging from the Glassdoor review, Netflix's firing strategy has the same effect--individual employees don't want to fuck up, so individual employees adopt a risk-averse cover-your-ass strategy, which also happens to dampen remarkable innovations. A culture like that has the same lack of agility and infestation from parasitic lifers, they just happen to add heaps of politics, stress, and unhappiness on top of it.
- lukev 16y ago
  Except that everything I've read about Netflix indicates that they're not risk-averse. They seem to be innovating in just the right areas. And yeah, I may be reading into it, since I have some frustration with large, process ridden organizations right now. I'm just saying, this is only one guy's take.
  - alnayyir 16y ago
    This isn't the right place for you to project your frustrations and prejudices.

jey 16y ago

Does this glassdoor post apply to engineering/creative roles too? I don't think that destroying morale is productive, but I could at least understand what they were trying to do if this only applies to their warehouse/fulfillment/etc operations: if you don't stuff enough envelopes fast enough, or encode and annotate movies fast enough, or deal with customer service calls efficiently enough, it can make sense to replace you with someone who does.

bloggergirl 16y ago
Creative roles? Have you seen the Netflix creative? It was last updated in 2004. I don't think they have creative roles. ;)

Umalu 16y ago

It is rare to see a truly performance-based employment system at a company because, as this post (and the comments) show, in order to execute well you have to continuously cull the low performers from the herd. This creates a culture of fear, especially in those likeliest to be culled. This is not unique to Netflix -- each year General Electric culls the bottom percentile of its management. The trick is to have performance criteria that are clearly understood so that the process is not arbitrary and capricious. Companies that do not cull low performers tend to attract low-performers who ultimately ensure that the company itself gets culled. It's a tough world out there.

conover 16y ago
Unless you work in government, then your company can't be culled.

bloggergirl 16y ago

I've read exactly the same thing about Netflix hundreds of times on Glassdoor ------ almost every review says the same thing: fear for your job. My partner was offered a job there and decided against it after reading some of those reviews. Not cool for any company --- especially a supposedly cool tech co --- to fire people as their employees say they do. When you read the details of these Glassdoor posts, you'll see just how rough some Netflix employees have it.

radioactive21 16y ago

I've actually heard both good and bad about Netflix, but the the negative experience told was not as bad as stated in this post. Maybe it's more or less the unit that you're with at Netflix?

AndrewWarner 16y ago

If anyone at Netflix wants to do a Mixergy interview about how this works, even anonymously, contact me. If this is really how things are there, I want to understand why it works.

BlazingFrog 16y ago

I don't know if the culture at Netflix is to blame but I've been noticing more and more how poorly designed their consumer-facing interfaces were. The UI "feel" on the web site strikes me as aged where there's so much that could be done to make me want spend the extra $15/month to upgrade my membership. I won't even mention the iPhone/iPad apps that are nothing more than a very weak implementation of an HTML iFrame.

ben1040 16y ago

From this post, it sounds like they only took the stick from the Jack Welch approach (firing the bottom 10%) and not the carrot (rewarding the top 20% for doing well and coaching the middle 70% to improve).

puredemo 16y ago
In my experience, this strategy works remarkably well.

c2 16y ago

Any company culture is going to have it's controversies. Personally I think too many companies hang on to ineffectual employees for too long. I read the Netflix slide deck and didn't see anything I didn't immediately agree with. I would not hold their culture against them when looking for a job there. The one thing I thought was a bit off was "you should ask your manager if they would fight for you to stay". IMO - if the employee is having a performance issue, the manager should bring it up not the employee.

c2 16y ago
Unrelated, but it's also kind of frustrating to put time and thought into a comment and then to be drive by down voted. If you disagree with my comment (which in and of itself is not really a good reason to down vote), then please reply with words. I am happy to have a discussion and talk about it. We both might learn something.

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male_salmon 16y ago

I work at Netflix and I cannot say that my experience reflects this particular review. I like working here because my coworkers are intelligent and I get to work on exciting projects. The slides we have on the jobs page are fairly accurate. That said, I can't completely discount other people's experience since I only have my own experience to go on. It would seem that folks are let go because their skills are no longer relevant or they don't perform to par. This does not necessarily indicate that the person is a poor employee, but that he/she was not able to deliver given a particular context.

jallmann 16y ago

No benefits? Really? None at all?

male_salmon 16y ago
Not true. I have health benefits (incl. dental and vision), FSA, free lunch, coffee, snacks, soda, etc.

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telemachos 16y ago

A tangential question: the Netflix culture slidedeck[1] mentions that as of about 2004, there's no vacation policy and tracking. This is supposed to be a good thing (less rules == more better, say the slides), and maybe it is. But I wonder: does anyone have experience in such an environment? My concern would be that everyone takes less and less vacation in a competitive or just fearful spiral. [1] http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 (slides 63-68)

zhyder 16y ago

No health benefits, really? That should be really easy to verify objectively. Can someone here corroborate that?

male_salmon 16y ago
Not true. I have health benefits from Netflix.
- harryh 16y ago
  The post seemed to indicate "no health benefits for family members" which is a benefit that many tech companies offer. Can you comment on that?
  - male_salmon 16y ago
    Not true. You can opt for family coverage but there are more out-of-pocket costs for the employee. I don't know how this compares with other companies though.

jacobmg 16y ago

Perhaps this explains one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen from a corporate blog in a long time? http://blog.netflix.com/2009/06/closed-captions-and-subtitles.html http://blog.netflix.com/2009/06/closed-captions-and-subtitle... Essentially them complaining it will take a year to implement closed-captioning because silverlight can't process SAMI files automatically (basically glorified text bolding/syncing) After I read that I guessed there was something wholly wrong with their corporate culture and management.

haploid 16y ago
I'm not sure what your point is regarding something being wrong with their management. Are you suggesting they should migrate away from Silverlight? That they should choose a different data format? That they are probably lying about implementation time, and just don't want to do it?
- jacobmg 16y ago
  The latter or incompetence or they just don't care enough about it to really investigate a viable solution (most probable.) Their technical reasons are invalid after all, so something is wrong, how much is the question.

pingswept 16y ago

20% annual turnover rate seems pretty low to me for a company more than 10 years old. Anyone know of statistics for comparable companies?

j_baker 16y ago

Every time I read about netflix's culture, I'm reminded of the old saying about the Model T: "you can get it in any color you want as long as it's black". The impression I get about Netflix seems to have an underlying theme of: "we give you unlimited freedom as long as you're doing the things we want you to do".

Terretta 16y ago

See Topgrading[1]: "Simply put, topgrading is the practice of packing the team with A players and clearing out the C players," Smart writes. "'A players' is defined as the top 10 percent of talent available at all salary levels--best of class. With this radical definition, you are not a topgrader until your team consists of all A players. Period." [1] http://www.amazon.com/Topgrading-Leading-Companies-Coaching-Keeping/dp/0735200491 http://www.amazon.com/Topgrading-Leading-Companies-Coaching-...

sankyo 16y ago

It seemed to me that a lot of the reviews were from people who worked in the call center, not developers, network engineers, etc. No doubt that it is quite a different experience between the two groups.

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noonespecial 16y ago

If you go and read this slide deck about Netflix's coporate culture (starting at about slide 23): http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 You might discover why there might be a "culture of fear" among the average performing employees, and why they might throw off a good bit of negativity in their hiring/firing cycle.

binaryfinery 16y ago
Indeed. I thought those slides were awesome. Is this all some brilliant hiring plan?

elq 16y ago

I've worked at netflix for about three years. I'm a software engineer and work on personalization. In the time I've been there, not one of the 40 or so people that I know well or work with have been fired. One person I was acquainted with was fired - no one found it surprising. Note that IT was a hellhole with firing about a year ago. Two really good people got dropped. I know more people that have quit - 3, but 1 has come back. re: pay I make far more than I've made at any of the 4 FT jobs I've had in 15 years. I'm paid a bit less on an hourly basis than my highest rate charged when I did consulting. I'm good. I was expensive. re: benefits. Netflix matches 401k, they have an ESOP, they have a unique option plan, free (decent) lunches, snacks & drinks, etc. re: health care. I'm single, my very good insurance program came out to less than $30 per paycheck since I've worked there. Next year they're changing the way insurance is done - every employee got $10k extra pay. This is intended to be used to cover the full cost of insurance, using my current benefits as a baseline it's a bit less that $8000 per year. People with dependents will almost certainly pay more. Many might be unhappy, I personally think it's fair. re: fear. I have failed many times. I have succeeded more. Perhaps I'm just an smug asshole, but I've never once felt fear for my job. re: innovation. I've personally spent more time innovating than at any other job I've had, including my last in a corporate research "lab". The glassdoor review that I wrote after 6 months - http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Netflix-RVW42606.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Netflix-RVW...

InfinityX0 16y ago
The final summation I have gotten from this + other things from this thread = Glassdoor is a place to review companies. Netflix may be slightly on the reputation decline from this (for most), but for me, I can, ultimately, only appreciate the brand recognition that came for a website I had previously never heard of.
cookiecaper 16y ago
Thanks for this perspective, I appreciate it. However, you noted that the IT department (assuming IT and engineering are separate at Netflix) was overboard with firing. If the manager on Glassdoor worked there, do you think his review is more justified? Netflix's pronounced strategy is great if you have judicious and fair managers all the way up the ranks in your department, but it seems that it only takes one bad manager to spoil a large bunch of good apples; overall performance is a pretty subjective metric after all, and if you get a particularly closed-minded or prejudiced manager (and such people are plentiful in the IT and engineering sectors; those of us who work with absolutist machines all the time seem to inherit a bit more of their habits than might be desirable) and he gets annoyed at something about you or your work, I doubt it's a very long walk from "awesome excellent performer" to "adequate performer" and a severance package for your average employee. Does Netflix have guards in place to protect against that? Do you think that the situation the reviewer described could have occurred in the same company because his department had a more difficult manager on the loop? Do you think that you've stuck around because you share the views or preferred styles of the other managers, which thereby makes you "super great performer"? Do you think that the Netflix policies have a tendency to create a useless feedback loop of yes-men and groupthink? The problem with running a programming team like a sports team is the difference in transparent metrics. There's a few simple measurements for the value of an athlete, depending on perspective: if he has good name recognition, he is a valuable business asset, even if he's not really a high-scorer; if he scores a lot of points and puts your team over the top often, he's a good asset because he increases the value of your franchise by making it win more often, and so on. The metrics in engineering, especially the day-to-day engineering of going into work, working on programs, and then coming home, are much less clear.

gbk 16y ago

Is it just me or is this single job review most likely about the low level CD packing and mailing jobs (that are not covered by machines)? This does not specifically say these are tech jobs within Netflix that have this Culture of Fear. As Netflix eventually moves to streaming-only these jobs will disappear anyway.