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Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL
- comntr 7y agoI've deleted the previous "Show HN" post because it was messy and hard to read and replaced it with this one.
- comntr 7y agoApart from encrypting the comments so the server wouldn't be able to read them, I've been thinking that it's actually possible to leave private messages: it would be a comment on SHA1(user.publicKey), and the message would be encrypted with that public key. The extension uses the ed25519 crypto system (WebCrypto notoriously avoids implementing it, so I had to use a WASM module). That seems like a very cool idea, albeit it's attracting exactly 0 attention from the public so far :)
- nstart 7y agoAppreciate the thought behind using the hashed URL to avoid leaking PII. That does make comments difficult too though because of refs being inserted by various social platforms. Not sure how one would handle that though
- fiddlerwoaroof 7y agoSome sites use a link with real=canonical to indicate the canonical url. Maybe this could use that (when present), instead of the tab url?
- comntr 7y agoComments can be seen like this: https://comntr.github.io#http://contoso.com/ https://comntr.github.io#http://contoso.com/ The trick is that the #... part of the URL isn't sent to the server. This request downloads JS which computes SHA1 and gets comments by that hash from the data server.
- phoe-krk 7y agoThis sounds similar to the (in)famous Dissenter comment functionality. What are the differences?
- netsharc 7y agoIn the 90's there was a Windows program that offered the same functionality, called uTOK: http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~orit/utok.html http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~orit/utok.html . IIRC it acted as a HTTP proxy to see which URLs you were fetching. Ah, the good old days where neo-nazis weren't everywhere online...
- quickthrower2 7y agoSounds like there is a graveyard of these things. I remember Google Sidebar. It might be called Sidewiki actually...
- SquareWheel 7y agoGoogle Sidewiki is what I was thinking of, too. And as I recall, people were not a fan. Giving up control of your website to these anonymous, semi-invisible comments seems like a bad idea. The description calling content moderation "orwellian" is also concerning. I think at this point we've all seen how twisted unmoderated comments get. If the platform is built on this premise then I can only guess how toxic such a community will become.
- Nuzzerino 7y agoIf something like this were to see wide success, that would potentially take a big use case away from Google Search, no question about that. You pretty much have to use Google Search in many cases if you want to find out what other people are saying about a given website. And if malicious comments are a problem on the platform, then that's a failure of the design of the platform rather than the idea of it. The nature of commenting as it exists now dishes out proportional exposure to those who are the loudest and most persistent, or can otherwise game the system. We've tried to solve that with human moderators (sometimes as bad as the trolls themselves), and simple voting algorithms (lowbrow meme humor gets voted to the top). It's now 2019, we're long overdue for a better way of doing things. Taking two steps backwards toward a completely unmoderated soapbox is a non-starter, and the fact that we're even having this discussion on HN is evidence that far too little effort has gone into solving these problems collectively.
- wishrider 7y agoThis would be so much better with a screenshot how it actually looks like.
- comntr 7y agoThere is one in the extension page, but sure, I can add one to github.
- getcrunk 7y agoThis sounds pretty cool
- afandian 7y agoThis is very similar to hypothes.is, apart from the hashing: https://web.hypothes.is/ https://web.hypothes.is/
- Anonymous4C54D6 7y agoThis actually looks a lot cooler than the OP. :) Edit: oh wait...chrome only
- afandian 7y agoI think it's good. It's based on open standards, has a proactive and engaged organisation behind it and, crucially, a community of users. Not to detract from the OP. (Edit: It's an open standard. There are plugins for different browsers, a web interface and API)
- hyperion2010 7y agoThere is a bookmarklet that works for firefox.
- mehdix 7y agoI stopped using it as I moved to Firefox a year ago. More important, they didn't provide a link to download my data at least in that time.
- comntr 7y agoAll the data here is actually stored in indexedDb and localStorage. I guess I'll implement import/export next time.
- comntr 7y agoThe idea is very similar, but I can't agree with a few implementation details: - The extension shouldn't need to have access to the page. Inserting an iframe into the page seems wrong. - The extension shouldn't own the comments. It should be a window to the comments, not a gatekeeper. It should be possible to implement alternative UIs and alternative extensions and connect them to the same comments. - The extension should allow to switch the UI and the data server. I like the inline annotations, but likely it'll need full access to DOM.
- cyborgx7 7y agoFrom the Firefox add-on page: > Many websites don't allow user comments, or disable comments after a certain period of time. comntr bypasses these Orwellian restrictions by allowing anyone to leave a comment on any website, as well as read comments left by others. Furthermore, your comments cannot be censored by the website administrator. I like the concept of the add-on, but calling moderation of your comment section "Orwellian" is pretty out there.
- avip 7y agoPuzzling that after 20 years of internet stupidism, people still think unrestricted user content could somehow be a good idea.
- s9w 7y agoSome people just want to be able to say what is legally allowed. That ability is attacked again and again. You don't have to want that freedom yourself, but imposing that restriction on others can be criticized.
- avip 7y agoDoes this extension give any party the power to unpublish not-legally-allowed content?
- kristopolous 7y agoThese were generally called metaweb tech when they were popular about 15-20 years ago. The problem was that everyone had to have a particular author's plugin to see the extra content. Some of them were better than others, allowing cross referencing, citation insertion, and a number of other sophisticated features. I don't know if they still are around. Sites like reddit and hn are really inverted versions of this concept, fixing the basic problem that most sites don't have commentary. What may be an interesting hybrid is to search the commentary aggregators when you land on a site and then show the hn/digg/whatever comments and permit replying if the credentials are known
- rtpg 7y agoI wrote a chrome extension that went the opposite direction: hit the extension button and you would get a list of hacker news and reddit submissions for that URL. Was super useful for finding some cool comments on a page I’ve since moved to Firefox and gave up on the extension, but it might be an easy port...
- air7 7y agoFirefox extensions are nowadays (since Quantum) web-extensions and are almost identical to chrome's so porting should be quite simple.
- syx 7y agoyou just described exactly what I've done a year ago [1] I always promised myself to rewrite it for Firefox but was too lazy. [1] https://github.com/syxanash/commentdat https://github.com/syxanash/commentdat
- tetizera 7y agoI'd love to have this extension! Let us know if you ever pick up that extension. I do have one question though. Links on e-mails usually have "?utm_campaign=id_campaign&utm_source=nytimes" for example. Is it possible to avoid duplicates? To this day this is one of the major headaches for mods on Reddit. There's also the mobile links for the same news article.
- pjc50 7y agoWhat anti-spam capability does this have? What's to stop someone from just flooding the DB for the top Alexa sites with junk?
- comntr 7y agoCurrently nothing. But I've only mentioned this extension to a small technical audience, so I wouldn't expect a flood of spam. In practice, this needs some sort of "local captcha" that doesn't involve 3rd parties, i.e. the storage server returns a puzzle (like guess what's shown on this 3d image) and if solved correctly, it results in a proper hash that's easy to verify. A simpler, but uglier solution is to ask the user to produce a hash with N leading zeros.
- bArray 7y agoI recommend people checkout Dissenter [1] if they are interested in this, it has quite the user base already (almost a million users late 2018 [2]). Some of the discussions had on there have been really quite interesting. My motivation for using their comments add-on is mostly to avoid tracking, although it's quite annoying they rely on Cloudflare. On a different note, the Wikipedia article on Gab/Dissenter is quite politically charged [2]. It seems that Wikipedia editors are mostly left-leaning (after clicking through several political articles). [1] https://dissenter.com/ https://dissenter.com/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_Dissenter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_Dissenter
- davidcollantes 7y ago> Gab's Apple Developer account has been unfairly terminated by Apple. Without any explanation. First time I heard of Gab, and/or Dissenter. Unsigned app? No, thank you.
- Nuzzerino 7y agoI can provide a possible explanation. As a former developer of a social mobile app, I'm aware that Apple's app policies require that any social communication features also come with human moderators (the definition of human moderator is up for interpretation). In any case, that is counter to Gab's core philosophy.
- comntr 7y agoLooking at comments for example.com, I understand why they want human moderators.
- lunchables 7y agoI have this vague memory that Gab was associated with some alt-right/neo-nazi/something-or-other thing and I should stay far away. Their website refers to Blocking "Big Tech" (which smells like "Deep State" to me). Is this something I should be using/supporting? I'm not an overtly political person but I just don't want to be in bad company.
- amelius 7y agoThis could be a great alternative to reviews on e.g. Amazon. But, I guess first a number of problems should be solved w.r.t. moderation, trust, spam, ...
- nextlevelwizard 7y agoThe example page seems to render HTML (and I bet JS) from comments, while hilarious does same thing happen in the extension as well?
- comntr 7y agoThe extension does two things: - It sends sha1 of the url to the data server to check the numebr of comments, but doesn't pull the comments. - It renders an <iframe src="comntr.github.io#foobar.com"> to show the comments. Thus the extension has very little code and doesn't need much updates.
- nextlevelwizard 7y agoSo answer is yes. The database does not sanitize user input and the extension just renders the tags as actual HTML. That doesn't seem super safe. I mean just check the example page from the github. It already has embedded Youtube videos and gifs.
- comntr 7y agoAh, right, I forgot to add basic html escaping!
- mgkimsal 7y agoWow... I feel old, remembering 'third voice'. Maybe even older, because no one else mentioned it... ? https://www.wired.com/1999/05/readers-speak-with-third-voice/ https://www.wired.com/1999/05/readers-speak-with-third-voice...
- EvanAnderson 7y agoThat's exactly who I was thinking, so you're not the only one feeling old here. Third Voice was an idea ahead of its time. Blogs ended-up being the meta-web, I suppose. They're not as satisfying to me as inline annotations.
- Tepix 7y agoDon't feel bad, "Third voice" is modern compared to web annotations.
- jothezero 7y agoI've built the same on chrome not so long ago. Mine is probably uglier than yours. I support you because the comment blocking hysteria these days is getting a bit too much. Let me know if you would like to see what I built on chrome.
- ttflee 7y agoLooks like a hacker news with a different topology.
- stunt 7y agoThis might be an idea for RSS readers.
- brokenmachine 7y agoCan you explain how?
- WillKirkby 7y agoAnd I'm sure this won't be used by bad actors at all...
- justinjlynn 7y agoand I'm sure the extension doesn't just send the URL of every page you visit somewhere... EDIT: Oh, it appears to be hashed... that's not as bad as I expected - but it's still extremely abusable. Nope... just nope - absolutely not without some sort of differential privacy or other concealment, thanks.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- comntr 7y agoComments under example.com already give a good idea what it will look like when everyone will start posting comments in public places.
- founderling 7y agoA bookmarklet would be better. It could achieve the same functionality without the security issues of an extension.
- nextlevelwizard 7y agoTrue. Infra is already there, nothing prevents someone from making bookmarklet that uses the same database.
- comntr 7y agoIsn't bookmarklet just a script that runs on the context of the current page when you click on that bookmark? If so, the script has all the access to your data. It can steal your auth cookie or some keys from the local storage and send them to some server.
- founderling 7y agoA bookmarklet is only invoked when you click it. Not on every fricking website you visit. And it would just have to be a single line that you can read so you can trust it. Something like: javascript:location.href='https://discuss.com/'+location.href That would redirect you to discuss.com where you can discuss your current url without discuss.com having any access to your data. To make it more convenient, the bookmarklet could also add the discussion to the current page via an iframe which also has no access to any outside data.
- comntr 7y agoBut if you click on it, it will have access to all your data? There is no in between: either no access until you click or full access when you click. This can be done already: javascript:location.href='https://comntr.github.io/#'+location.href https://comntr.github.io/#'+location.href
- laurent123456 7y agoThe only way this can be useful is if everybody has it. Not having it available on Chrome is not a great start.
- Nuzzerino 7y agoI fail to see any merit in the claim that mainstream adoption is necessary for a tool like this to have any value. You're not going to be using this tool for synchronous conversations between commenters, or even conversations at all. Any information you leave in the form of a comment is going to matter to the people who visit the site after you. You're also commenting about the website's content in question, not having a soapbox discussion. The tool doesn't need to suffer from the effects of the empty room problem known to social networking, because there is no "social" in this network. Granted, it's going to take something a lot more clever than what's already there to deal with the separate moderation issue.
- laurent123456 7y agoThis kind of tool, to make sense, needs to have as many people as possible on it otherwise you'll see no comment on any site you open. You can indeed leave a comment yourself, but probably people won't if they see nobody's ever going to read them. So that's why it's strange that such an extension, which I think does have a social aspect, would ignore 60% of browsers.
- Nuzzerino 7y agoIf the data is open and federated (as it should be), it will still be available for ingestion by other future (and past) attempts at the idea. I don't see any fundamental problem with the idea, but understand that it's important to get the details right.
- notopygos 7y agoyou can install the addon on chrome manually > The extension works in Chrome too, but it's not published to the Chrome Web Store. Why? Publishing any extension there now requires (1) a phone number, to create a gmail account and (2) a credit card, supposedly to deter spammers. However the extension can be installed manually.
- badderdash 7y agoSo basically, Reddit?
- Tepix 7y agoNo. With reddit you can't add a comment to all pages on the web, such as someone's ebay auction.
- sanqui 7y agoGoogle has tried this once and it failed to gain traction: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki
- Nuzzerino 7y agoIf an innovative and prolific technology company wants to discourage others from innovating in a certain problem domain, all it has to do is declare to the world that it's own attempts were a failure.
- iraldir 7y agoBe mindful of moderating it yourself though. You don't want your user niche to be wannabe pedophiles leaving disgusting comments on children youtube video to avoid google "orwelian censorship".
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- siphon22 7y agoI love this idea, was thinking about how nice something like this would be myself. Sad it'll get no chance because of people going "muh nazis", even though it will work with any URL. It appears theres this assumption that it will be used for politics related stuff which i have no concern with myself. No neonazis will be gathering on the URLs that are meaningful to me and id say most people. Read.write.as blogs/posts have no way to leave comments and feedback, so something like this would be cool. If i wrote blogs there, id like to see feedback and supportive comments if possible. And since its an external function from the site itself, i can either grow a skin or uninstall the addon. It just works.
- dsr_ 7y agoEvery discussion method eventually gets abused. Then the owner figures out what rules they want to enforce, and how. Every website is one URL away. You can't rely on being relatively invisible. "If I wrote blogs there, id like to see feedback and supportive comments" -- yes, but (a) if you write a blog, you can choose a platform that has comments and (b) eventually the Nazis or the pedophiles or the Nazi pedophiles will colonize your comments section when they discover you don't have any moderation rules. At which point, you will have three choices: 1. turn off comments 2. moderate comments 3. give up
- siphon22 7y agoThere is no turning off or moderating those comments. It's an external function of an addon that has nothing to do with my hypothetical blog in which lacks a native comment section. To see those comments, I would have to willingly decide that I wanted to see them and go to download the addon.This is the same for anyone else. If there are people who do this and think they can make any kind of association or blame on me for having pedos commenting on my blog's url, well, they are wrong, since I had nothing to do with that comment section and have no control over it. What do they want me to do? It's some other guy's addon and other people talking amongst themselves a great distance away.
- deca6cda37d0 7y agoHow do you keep all the toxic and evil comments out? How do you give website owners a way to opt out?
- iamnotacrook 7y agoNot having a website,I guess. It's not their system to opt out of. Perhaps though some will try to get comments removed by disputing their accuracy (data protection act/gdpr in the UK), or the use of their URL for copyright reasons (I seem to recall this being an issue on one of the previous manifestations of this idea).
- catacombs 7y agoThe likelihood for millions of users to use something like and comment on highly trafficked websites seems low.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- racketprogram 7y agohttps://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/browsercast/pieoblklnkicbidenoodmehmcbkopkkp https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/browsercast/pieobl... I have a same idea and I made it But is is dead now
- catacombs 7y agoWhy did it die?
- brokenkebab 7y agoTechnically the thing is nothing new, the really important questions are those related to real life operation, and I don't see them answered. * Position in regard to censorship, and technical tools to do, or counter it. * Viability/resilience of the server which keeps comments. * Under which jurisdiction it is hosted? * If it depends on a domain name who owns it? * Can a commenter be traced, and by whom? * Can anybody (including original author) edit comments?
- mehdix 7y agoA true decentralized solution would have no moderation, no edit, no deletion. It would be basically a 4chan on every single page.
- brokenmachine 7y agoYou could have decentralized with the original poster able to edit. Every post/thread could be like it's own git repo.
- mehdix 7y agoYou're right. However, it only enables the original authors to edit their comments. A moderation is about a third party being able to "moderate" the posts.
- comntr 7y ago(1) The author of this extension shouldn't have any powers to moderate comments. At the moment I can, but this will be fixed. I believe in a fragmented network with different rules about how to moderate content, or don't moderate it at all. (2) No resilience as of today. But it should be a federated network of data servers that exchange with comments. (3) US, if you're asking about this particular server. But it's just a demo. (4) I own it. But again, there should be a network of such servers and it should be possible to add your own that would have access to all the comments and would be able to serve them. (5) Commenters get assigned random ed25518 keypairs, but you can delete yours and another one will be generated. Technically, the data server knows your IP address, but you can change the data server in the config. (6) Since comment are signed, it's possible to allow the author to edit his comments. They can't be just edited by someone else because comments are signed. At the moment signatures aren't verified, but there will be a verufy button per comment/
- Tepix 7y agoA long time ago, there was a W3C standard for this called web annotations². It never really caught on, possibly because people and organizations were expected to host their own annotation servers. NCSA Mosaic had the feature back in 1993. Check out this post from Marc Andreesen on the www-talk list: http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q2/0416.html http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q2/0416.ht... A rather obscure browser by the W3C called Annotea also had support for web annotations. I vaguely remember downloading and installing it just to try annotations. -- ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_annotation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_annotation
- tedmiston 7y agoThe Genius Web Annotator [1] was quite popular (and funded by Andreessen), though since the pivot into a media company, I believe it's no longer actively developed. Hypothesis (Hypothes.is) [2] is active [3] and awesome. They are involved in the Web Annotation standardization efforts. [1]: https://genius.com/web-annotator https://genius.com/web-annotator [2]: https://web.hypothes.is/ https://web.hypothes.is/ [3]: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01427-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01427-9
- comntr 7y agoThanks for the links! I'll do some research before rolling out v2 of my extension.
- comntr 7y ago[2] is very similar to what I want to do. They chose to insert an iframe into the current page and I don't agree with this decision: the extension should have as little access as possible to the page, ideally it only gets a hash of the url.
- fiatjaf 7y agoI was an avid Hypothesis user but since I moved from Chrome to Firefox I stopped using it entirely, waiting for their Firefox extension. It's been years since they promised it.
- pier25 7y agoIt's not the same, but I use this Chrome extension that tells me when a URL has been shared on Reddit so I can comment there. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/reddit-check/mllceaiaedaingchlgolnfiibippgkmj?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/reddit-check/mllce... Someone should make something similar for HN.
- dartf 7y agoI found this: https://github.com/jdormit/looped-in https://github.com/jdormit/looped-in Related HN post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16316374 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16316374
- LinuxBender 7y agoI like the idea. Third voice was fun for a while. Are the iframes opt-in per domain? If not, how do you deal with leaking internal DNS names (referers) from within companies and government organizations? I don't see a referer policy [1] Does your addon respect CSP policies? I assume the browser would enforce this, if iframes are not permitted. [1] - https://securityheaders.com/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fcomntr.github.io%2F&followRedirects=on https://securityheaders.com/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fcomntr.github.i... The domain mentioned in the README is not up.
- comntr 7y agoI guess my extension doesn't none of these. Will be fixed in v2.
- novaleaf 7y agoit looks like the comments are in plaintext. couldn't they be encrypted with the url?
- comntr 7y agoYes, they can be.
- vhodges 7y agoAnother project in a similar vein was _why's mousehole proxy https://github.com/evaryont/mousehole https://github.com/evaryont/mousehole
- comntr 7y agoWow, it's surprising how much difference a proper post title makes. The v1 of this post had a long, but technically correct title without a link, but with a long, boring description about technical details with links. The post got like 5 upvotes and 1 reply. So I've deleted that post, shortened the title, removed the description and set the link to github instead. Now it has 150 points and 120 comments. And I really appreciate all the attention to my little project!
- atum47 7y agoI remember when I was a kid, there was this program that let you draw all over any site. it was kinda cool.
- frenchie4111 7y agoI would be interested in a version of this extension that shows me the HN comments of the page I am on, if it has previously been posted. Edit: Someone linked this exact thing further down https://github.com/jdormit/looped-in https://github.com/jdormit/looped-in
- cafxx 7y ago"it attaches comments to SHA1 of the URL, to avoid leaking PII" Seriously, SHA1?
- AgentME 7y agoI don't think it's particularly bad for this use-case: the easy failure scenario someone can do now is that a site operator could make two URLs that the extension considers to be the same and shows the same comments for, and the worst-case scenario is that someone makes a URL the extension considers the same as someone else's URL. But regardless, it's weird that anyone would reach for SHA-1 for anything new now.
- comntr 7y agoWhy is this a problem? I even considered MD5, to be honest. Afaik, the only reason MD5 or SHA1 are considered "insecure" now is that it's possible to use sophisticated techniques called differential analysis to carefully craft two binary files that would have the same hash. But if the space of possible inputs is limited (we can't put arbitrary stuff in the URLs), then good luck finding a collision. Discovering a collision with an existing input is a much harder problem (is it even solved for arbitrary data?). In any case, SHA1 here isn't a security mechanism, but is just a way to hide URLs from the data server and organize comments as a nice hashmap. If someone wants to put anything sensitive in the comments, they shouldn't and I've clearly warned about this with a big yellow banner. If someone ever needs security, the only way to go is to use your own data server, or encrypt comments themselves with ed25519+aes256.
- b3n 7y agoThe problem with using SHA1 to protect PII is it would be trivial to brute force, especially with the restrictive character set of URLs, and a big part of them being able to be guessed. One could very quickly cycle through all Hacker News URLs, for example. This is why a key derivation function would be preferable.
- comntr 7y agoThe space of possible reasonable URLs is way too big to brute force. If your point is that someone can just grab the set of existing HN URLs and get their heashes, then I don't see what this achieves. Someone who knows the URLs can just download all the comments for them anyway. In other words, is there an example where a sophisticated state of the art hash has advantage over MD5 in our case?
- catacombs 7y agoThis reminds me of Dissenter[0]. I could've sworn there was a similar extension. [0]: https://dissenter.com/download https://dissenter.com/download
- OrgNet 7y agoThis is an old idea that never really caught on but a good one, nonetheless. But if it will ever get some traction, it probably needs to be implemented in the browser itself
- brokenmachine 7y agoI wonder, how would this work on, eg an ebay auction or another site where the same content is available at lots of different URLs? The same auction is available at, eg https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1992-WIDGET-THE-WORLD-WATCHER-NINTENDO-8-BIT-NES-GAME-PVC-TOY-FIGURE-EXC/113314026367?hash=item1a620ad37f:g:0QwAAOSwLXNbxp~s https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1992-WIDGET-THE-WORLD-WATCHER-NI... https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/113314026367 https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/113314026367 https://www.ebay.com/itm/113314026367 https://www.ebay.com/itm/113314026367 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113314026367 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113314026367 , and probably limitless other URLs.
- comntr 7y agoThe extension can pull comments from multiple urls. But I think this situation is unique and most of the commentable content is hosted on static urls.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
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- carlotapia 7y agoFor Chrome users: www.vestedyeti.com/download We took inspiration from SideWiki and Hypothes.is, and paired it with bookmarking features. Disclaimer: This is my app/extension.