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This article is surprisingly short. How many bats are being killed? Are birds having similar issues? Will it help them too? Come on, Bloomberg.

briandear 7y ago
http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/new/us-windfarms-kill-10-20-times-more-than-previously-thought.html http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/new/us-windfarms-kill-...
- gameswithgo 7y ago
  https://images.app.goo.gl/SABJs5GkQsGFJC1d7 https://images.app.goo.gl/SABJs5GkQsGFJC1d7
  - briandear 7y ago
    The linked chart doesn’t dispute the damage from wind turbines. However, there is also a relatively low penetration of wind turbines compared to the number of power lines, windows and cats. It would follow that a rapid expansion of wind turbines would result in a dramatic increase in bird deaths. Suggesting that turbines don’t kill as much as windows is a straw man: nobody is claiming that turbines are the leading cause of bird deaths, however, they are still significant and, with an increase of turbines, you will absolutely have an increase in bird mortality. Additionally, endangered birds such as bald eagles are rarely getting eaten by housecats or crashing into windows, however, they are being killed by windmills. The Audubon Society, a group that most assuredly has more experience with all things birds are certainly more credible than a random google image search in terms of the impact of turbines on birds. https://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds https://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe...
DonHopkins 7y ago
>How many bats are being killed? >Are birds having similar issues? >Will it help them too? To find out, tune in tomorrow. Same bat time. Same bat channel.
grawprog 7y ago
https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-are-bats-affected-wind-turbines https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-are-bats-affected-wind-turbine... They're pretty deadly, and it's not collisions that kill them. It's the pressure differential caused by them. It's too hard on their lungs and makes them rupture. It's less deadly to birds in that way, their respiratory system tends to be sturdier.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  That is kind of ironic - even knowing that durability isn't monolithic and based off of different things. Birds known for coal mine canaries have the more durable lungs.
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    Indeed! Birds in general have infamously sensitive lungs, apparently because their respiratory system is a one-way loop instead of an in-and-out piston. They can exhale one breath at the same time that another is passing through the lungs. It's amazingly efficient, serving the high oxygen and cooling needs of active flight, but it's far more susceptible to airborne pollutants of all kinds. But, apparently, sensitivity to pollutants is unrelated to sensitivity to pressure. Biology is fascinating.
- sgorto 7y ago
  So one of the major bats being affected by wind energy in the south are Hoary bats. While they aren't currently endangered, they are very elusive and could become endangered if current mortality rates continue. "The hoary bat population could decline by as much as 90% in the next 50 years if the initial population size is near 2.5 million bats and annual population growth rate is similar to rates estimated for other bat species (λ = 1.01)" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0006320716310485 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00063... In Hawaii, there is a subspecies of the Hoary bat that is endangered and primarily threatened by wind turbines. There are also studies happening out there on wind turbines (I applied to work for the study like a year ago, I don't think BCI will be publishing anything any time soon). https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/wildlife/files/2018/07/Bat-White-Paper-Guidance_2015-FINAL.pdf https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/wildlife/files/2018/07/Bat-White-Pap... https://www.nrgsystems.com/news-media/nrg-systems-announces-first-commercial-sale-of-bat-deterrent-system-to-kawailoa-wind/ https://www.nrgsystems.com/news-media/nrg-systems-announces-... RE this study - I believe this is part of the work being done by Dr. Sara Weaver at Texas State. I don't know that she's published much on it yet, it's been very hush-hush because of the huge implications it could have if successful. The NRG tech being used is mentioned in the Texas State article below. https://psmag.com/environment/jamming-echolocation-could-help-save-the-bats https://psmag.com/environment/jamming-echolocation-could-hel... https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sara_Weaver4 https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sara_Weaver4 https://news.txstate.edu/research-and-innovation/2018/bat-deterrent-system-.html https://news.txstate.edu/research-and-innovation/2018/bat-de... That being said, wind energy is like... maybe #2 or #3 threat to bats right now. The biggest one being a disease called white-nose syndrome that is absolutely devastating hibernating bats. USFS website on WNS: https://www.whitenosesyndrome.org/ https://www.whitenosesyndrome.org/ A third major danger to bats is human persecution. People either are scared of bats, or hunt them for food. In places like Australia, bats are sometimes seen as a nuisance where the congregate in large numbers and poop. Bat Conservation International has a lot of articles and social media messages talking about how bats are threatened http://www.batcon.org/why-bats/bats-are/bats-are-threatened http://www.batcon.org/why-bats/bats-are/bats-are-threatened
gameswithgo 7y ago
wind turbines do kill some birds. they are not a first or even second order bird killer though. and newer wind farms pose less of a threat for various reasons. size, etc. https://images.app.goo.gl/SABJs5GkQsGFJC1d7 https://images.app.goo.gl/SABJs5GkQsGFJC1d7
- eikenberry 7y ago
  Anyone know of similar stats on bat deaths?
- briandear 7y ago
  Of course they aren’t a first order bird killer because there aren’t that many turbines compared to the first order bird killers. Nuclear power is far more “green” than solar and wind, but for some reason, environmentalists are stuck in wind and solar as saviors. In California, they just declared that hydro doesn’t count as “renewable,” despite it being exactly that. The push for wind and solar is political more than practical. We already have an incredibly green, practically limitless energy technology already available, it’s called nuclear, but instead we want to debate sticking windmills on every patch of ground and covering everything with inefficient solar panels.
  - greglindahl 7y ago
    If 100% of US power was wind, turbines would still not be the #1 bird killer. Can you point out the new hydro plants that we can build? As a California resident, I'm happy that the state isn't spending extra to buy nuclear.
    - petre 7y ago
      At least California residents are lucky enough to benefit from vast geothermal resources, which could be used for base load instead of nuclear. Hydropower utilities are mostly peaker plants.
  - shaki-dora 7y ago
    > The push for wind and solar is political more than practical. It's fascinating how you're accusing others to be emotional instead of rational, while answering a post providing data for one specific question regarding wind power with an unspecific rant.

briandear 7y ago

http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/new/us-windfarms-kill-10-20-times-more-than-previously-thought.html http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/new/us-windfarms-kill-...

gameswithgo 7y ago
https://images.app.goo.gl/SABJs5GkQsGFJC1d7 https://images.app.goo.gl/SABJs5GkQsGFJC1d7
- briandear 7y ago
  The linked chart doesn’t dispute the damage from wind turbines. However, there is also a relatively low penetration of wind turbines compared to the number of power lines, windows and cats. It would follow that a rapid expansion of wind turbines would result in a dramatic increase in bird deaths. Suggesting that turbines don’t kill as much as windows is a straw man: nobody is claiming that turbines are the leading cause of bird deaths, however, they are still significant and, with an increase of turbines, you will absolutely have an increase in bird mortality. Additionally, endangered birds such as bald eagles are rarely getting eaten by housecats or crashing into windows, however, they are being killed by windmills. The Audubon Society, a group that most assuredly has more experience with all things birds are certainly more credible than a random google image search in terms of the impact of turbines on birds. https://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds https://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe...

DonHopkins 7y ago

>How many bats are being killed? >Are birds having similar issues? >Will it help them too? To find out, tune in tomorrow. Same bat time. Same bat channel.

grawprog 7y ago

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-are-bats-affected-wind-turbines https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-are-bats-affected-wind-turbine... They're pretty deadly, and it's not collisions that kill them. It's the pressure differential caused by them. It's too hard on their lungs and makes them rupture. It's less deadly to birds in that way, their respiratory system tends to be sturdier.

Nasrudith 7y ago
That is kind of ironic - even knowing that durability isn't monolithic and based off of different things. Birds known for coal mine canaries have the more durable lungs.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  Indeed! Birds in general have infamously sensitive lungs, apparently because their respiratory system is a one-way loop instead of an in-and-out piston. They can exhale one breath at the same time that another is passing through the lungs. It's amazingly efficient, serving the high oxygen and cooling needs of active flight, but it's far more susceptible to airborne pollutants of all kinds. But, apparently, sensitivity to pollutants is unrelated to sensitivity to pressure. Biology is fascinating.
sgorto 7y ago
So one of the major bats being affected by wind energy in the south are Hoary bats. While they aren't currently endangered, they are very elusive and could become endangered if current mortality rates continue. "The hoary bat population could decline by as much as 90% in the next 50 years if the initial population size is near 2.5 million bats and annual population growth rate is similar to rates estimated for other bat species (λ = 1.01)" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0006320716310485 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00063... In Hawaii, there is a subspecies of the Hoary bat that is endangered and primarily threatened by wind turbines. There are also studies happening out there on wind turbines (I applied to work for the study like a year ago, I don't think BCI will be publishing anything any time soon). https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/wildlife/files/2018/07/Bat-White-Paper-Guidance_2015-FINAL.pdf https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/wildlife/files/2018/07/Bat-White-Pap... https://www.nrgsystems.com/news-media/nrg-systems-announces-first-commercial-sale-of-bat-deterrent-system-to-kawailoa-wind/ https://www.nrgsystems.com/news-media/nrg-systems-announces-... RE this study - I believe this is part of the work being done by Dr. Sara Weaver at Texas State. I don't know that she's published much on it yet, it's been very hush-hush because of the huge implications it could have if successful. The NRG tech being used is mentioned in the Texas State article below. https://psmag.com/environment/jamming-echolocation-could-help-save-the-bats https://psmag.com/environment/jamming-echolocation-could-hel... https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sara_Weaver4 https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sara_Weaver4 https://news.txstate.edu/research-and-innovation/2018/bat-deterrent-system-.html https://news.txstate.edu/research-and-innovation/2018/bat-de... That being said, wind energy is like... maybe #2 or #3 threat to bats right now. The biggest one being a disease called white-nose syndrome that is absolutely devastating hibernating bats. USFS website on WNS: https://www.whitenosesyndrome.org/ https://www.whitenosesyndrome.org/ A third major danger to bats is human persecution. People either are scared of bats, or hunt them for food. In places like Australia, bats are sometimes seen as a nuisance where the congregate in large numbers and poop. Bat Conservation International has a lot of articles and social media messages talking about how bats are threatened http://www.batcon.org/why-bats/bats-are/bats-are-threatened http://www.batcon.org/why-bats/bats-are/bats-are-threatened

gameswithgo 7y ago

wind turbines do kill some birds. they are not a first or even second order bird killer though. and newer wind farms pose less of a threat for various reasons. size, etc. https://images.app.goo.gl/SABJs5GkQsGFJC1d7 https://images.app.goo.gl/SABJs5GkQsGFJC1d7

eikenberry 7y ago
Anyone know of similar stats on bat deaths?
briandear 7y ago
Of course they aren’t a first order bird killer because there aren’t that many turbines compared to the first order bird killers. Nuclear power is far more “green” than solar and wind, but for some reason, environmentalists are stuck in wind and solar as saviors. In California, they just declared that hydro doesn’t count as “renewable,” despite it being exactly that. The push for wind and solar is political more than practical. We already have an incredibly green, practically limitless energy technology already available, it’s called nuclear, but instead we want to debate sticking windmills on every patch of ground and covering everything with inefficient solar panels.
- greglindahl 7y ago
  If 100% of US power was wind, turbines would still not be the #1 bird killer. Can you point out the new hydro plants that we can build? As a California resident, I'm happy that the state isn't spending extra to buy nuclear.
  - petre 7y ago
    At least California residents are lucky enough to benefit from vast geothermal resources, which could be used for base load instead of nuclear. Hydropower utilities are mostly peaker plants.
- shaki-dora 7y ago
  > The push for wind and solar is political more than practical. It's fascinating how you're accusing others to be emotional instead of rational, while answering a post providing data for one specific question regarding wind power with an unspecific rant.