6 ms·

You're not going to get rid of espionage. NSA has been doing this for years. The ban is purely a battle for who has more power and control. In the end, the user

by cfarm 7y ago

You're not going to get rid of espionage. NSA has been doing this for years. The ban is purely a battle for who has more power and control. In the end, the user loses no matter what. Someone will be watching.

iliketosleep 7y ago
Of course espionage will continue and international rivals will resort to dirty tactics, this is a given. The only question is whose side you're on. I am surprised when US citizens or people of nations aligned with the US are critical of the US defending itself against foreign espionage.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  > Of course espionage will continue and international rivals will resort to dirty tactics, this is a given. Those dirty foreigners and their dirty tactics. If only they could keep it all clean and above board like our good old fashioned home grown espionage.
  - C1sc0cat 7y ago
    There is playing the great game and taking the piss China is taking the piss.
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  > people of nations aligned with the US are critical of the US defending itself As an european, I properly couldn't care less about US defending itself, there is no higher moral ground compared to say China (Russia is a special case). We know about all the dirty unlawful watching, how we are considered less than american citizens in many ways etc. I mean we all get why you guys do it, it just has the same moral ground as Chinese doing it
  - adventured 7y ago
    I got a pretty good laugh out of you saying Russia is a special case (special because you're European). Different moral ground when it's a direct military threat in your own backyard. Unlike most/all countries in Europe, the US has truly global security interests. As the sole superpower it is in long-term security / defense partnerships all over the world, including in Asia, which pertains directly to the China situation. As the most prominent example, the world's third largest economy - Japan - has no real ability to defend itself from China in a conflict and depends almost entirely on the US for military security (including the US nuclear umbrella). Are the Europeans going to all rush to Asia to defend Japan and or South Korea in a conflict? No. They're not going to lift a finger to do anything (protest at the UN perhaps), and more realistically can't do anything even if they wanted to. So should the US abandon Japan re defense, pretend we have no security interest there at all? I don't think so. So no, it's not just the same as China doing it. That's merely the perspective of a European with only regional (the Russian special case) security concerns. North Korea and South Korea are also not on the same moral ground.
    - C1sc0cat 7y ago
      And Europe does have interests in that area
    - mantap 7y ago
      The US do a pretty bad job of being world police and have a bad habit of invading countries, changing the regime, then leaving the country to rot into anarchy. Yes the US defends its allies, don't you think that China defends its allies too? The real test of a nation is how it treats nations for which it has a grievance with.
      - dantillberg 7y ago
        > don't you think that China defends its allies too? This made me curious: what nations could be considered allies of China? North Korea, possibly maybe?
- dillonmckay 7y ago
  You assume the intent is to defend itself against espionage, not as a tactic as part of a tradewar. If the US is truly concerned about espionage, why is some Chinese electronics manufacturing for US export okay, while others are not?
  - iliketosleep 7y ago
    All of these things are interlinked and the tradewar is absolutely part of it.
  - cfarm 7y ago
    Certain types of technology will make espionage easier for China on US citizens than the other way around. They are just battling over rules of war.
- Tsubasachan 7y ago
  Nations don't have friends only interests. Shoring up the US economy is in everyone's interest up to a certain point ofcourse everyone is exposed to US debt- but when the US starts imposing tariffs to keep out other countries expect criticism.
- throwaway7312 7y ago
  Not everyone in the US benefits equally by going down the paths the academics, politicians, business leaders, and pundits set out for us. The larger this group of the disaffected becomes (and it is becoming quite large), the more these people will rebel against what their betters instruct them to think and do.

by cfarm 7y ago

iliketosleep 7y ago

Of course espionage will continue and international rivals will resort to dirty tactics, this is a given. The only question is whose side you're on. I am surprised when US citizens or people of nations aligned with the US are critical of the US defending itself against foreign espionage.

SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
> Of course espionage will continue and international rivals will resort to dirty tactics, this is a given. Those dirty foreigners and their dirty tactics. If only they could keep it all clean and above board like our good old fashioned home grown espionage.
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  There is playing the great game and taking the piss China is taking the piss.
saiya-jin 7y ago
> people of nations aligned with the US are critical of the US defending itself As an european, I properly couldn't care less about US defending itself, there is no higher moral ground compared to say China (Russia is a special case). We know about all the dirty unlawful watching, how we are considered less than american citizens in many ways etc. I mean we all get why you guys do it, it just has the same moral ground as Chinese doing it
- adventured 7y ago
  I got a pretty good laugh out of you saying Russia is a special case (special because you're European). Different moral ground when it's a direct military threat in your own backyard. Unlike most/all countries in Europe, the US has truly global security interests. As the sole superpower it is in long-term security / defense partnerships all over the world, including in Asia, which pertains directly to the China situation. As the most prominent example, the world's third largest economy - Japan - has no real ability to defend itself from China in a conflict and depends almost entirely on the US for military security (including the US nuclear umbrella). Are the Europeans going to all rush to Asia to defend Japan and or South Korea in a conflict? No. They're not going to lift a finger to do anything (protest at the UN perhaps), and more realistically can't do anything even if they wanted to. So should the US abandon Japan re defense, pretend we have no security interest there at all? I don't think so. So no, it's not just the same as China doing it. That's merely the perspective of a European with only regional (the Russian special case) security concerns. North Korea and South Korea are also not on the same moral ground.
  - C1sc0cat 7y ago
    And Europe does have interests in that area
  - mantap 7y ago
    The US do a pretty bad job of being world police and have a bad habit of invading countries, changing the regime, then leaving the country to rot into anarchy. Yes the US defends its allies, don't you think that China defends its allies too? The real test of a nation is how it treats nations for which it has a grievance with.
    - dantillberg 7y ago
      > don't you think that China defends its allies too? This made me curious: what nations could be considered allies of China? North Korea, possibly maybe?
dillonmckay 7y ago
You assume the intent is to defend itself against espionage, not as a tactic as part of a tradewar. If the US is truly concerned about espionage, why is some Chinese electronics manufacturing for US export okay, while others are not?
- iliketosleep 7y ago
  All of these things are interlinked and the tradewar is absolutely part of it.
- cfarm 7y ago
  Certain types of technology will make espionage easier for China on US citizens than the other way around. They are just battling over rules of war.
Tsubasachan 7y ago
Nations don't have friends only interests. Shoring up the US economy is in everyone's interest up to a certain point ofcourse everyone is exposed to US debt- but when the US starts imposing tariffs to keep out other countries expect criticism.
throwaway7312 7y ago
Not everyone in the US benefits equally by going down the paths the academics, politicians, business leaders, and pundits set out for us. The larger this group of the disaffected becomes (and it is becoming quite large), the more these people will rebel against what their betters instruct them to think and do.