6 ms·

One of the bars I go to, every other month or so seems to have a fundraiser for a regular at the bar. I almost never donate unless I'm there the day of the fun

One of the bars I go to, every other month or so seems to have a fundraiser for a regular at the bar. I almost never donate unless I'm there the day of the fundraiser, or there's food involved. $10 spagetti dinner for instance. I understand this person needs help. But in almost every case, I know this person. I know how much $$$ they spend on acohol a week. I know how they got fired from their job for not showing up. I know they blew their tax return in a week. I'm not a cold hearted person but I don't understand why others have to bail them out.

minikites 7y ago
Should the fire department skip someone's house because they made the poor decision to have a christmas tree or because they didn't maintain/clean their fireplace or chimney?
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  Maybe after the same person lights their Christmas tree on fire for the 3rd or 4th time they should.
  - qntty 7y ago
    ...but they don't
    - 0xffff2 7y ago
      Yep, and it's all irrelevant because it's a silly comparison anyway.
      - qntty 7y ago
        I think it's fair to compare socialized healthcare to fire departments or public education. The case of donating money to a fund raiser is silly though. It's hard to know how much you might be "obligated" to donate even if you argue that the amount is more than 0.
- bluedino 7y ago
  A better comparison would be, if they are behind on their property taxes? Should the trash man not stop at your house if you haven't paid your trash bill for the quartter?
  - nradov 7y ago
    Trash collection is a public safety issue. We can't have trash building up, attracting pests and spreading disease. If they don't pay the trash bill then the trash man should still stop at their house. But then the local government should place a lien on the property, and if necessary sell it at auction to settle the bill.
supergauntlet 7y ago
>I know how much $$$ they spend on acohol a week. Are poor people not allowed to have fun? >I know how they got fired from their job for not showing up. Are depressed people not worthy of keeping alive? Do they not bring enough value to the table, so it's okay to just let them die? >I know they blew their tax return in a week. Is poor financial sense justification for not helping someone out that needs help? I dunno, these all seem like kinda tenuous justifications for not giving. By all means, it's your money. I'm not telling you how to spend it. Just that I don't agree with the core idea that poor people should live like hermits, that you know everything about people's lives, that not being taught finance by anyone is a solid justification for not giving. It seems rather post-hoc. Personally I don't think any of thse things should justify someone losing basic human rights like food, shelter, or health. This isn't to say the problem should be solved by private charity, it shouldn't. Can't, I would even say.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  >Are poor people not allowed to have fun? Not out of proportion with their income and expenses, no. You might as well ask "are middle class people not allowed to buy a Ferrari?" Of course they're allowed to, but they're going to have trouble raising money when they can't pay their mortgage. >Are depressed people not worthy of keeping alive? Do they not bring enough value to the table, so it's okay to just let them die? That's a pretty sweeping assumption, but to some extent what else are you going to do? If someone refuses to participate in society, it's not on me to bail them out. Otherwise I'd spend all my time on the streets of SF trying to fix people. >Is poor financial sense justification for not helping someone out that needs help? Yes, absolutely 100%, yes. No one else is entitled to your money. It doesn't even matter how tenuous the reasons are. There don't need to be any reasons to not give someone money.
- ancorevard 7y ago
  > justification for not helping someone out We should help this person out. But giving him money clearly is not the best way, in fact it may seem like giving him money is only enabling his bad lifestyle choices. Money is not the solution here.
- homonculus1 7y ago
al2o3cr 7y ago
I'm not a cold hearted person Citation needed
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  Thats a personal attack, not allowen on hn. Please stop.
timoth3y 7y ago
> I know this person. I know how much $$$ they spend on acohol a week. I know how they got fired from their job for not showing up. I know they blew their tax return in a week. I'm not a cold hearted person but ... Well, you kind of are. That's basically of the definition of cold-hearted. It's 100% your legal and moral right to not contribute to these fundraisers. You could even argue that the best course of action here is to be cold-hearted, but you should at least own it.

minikites 7y ago

Should the fire department skip someone's house because they made the poor decision to have a christmas tree or because they didn't maintain/clean their fireplace or chimney?

0xffff2 7y ago
Maybe after the same person lights their Christmas tree on fire for the 3rd or 4th time they should.
- qntty 7y ago
  ...but they don't
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    Yep, and it's all irrelevant because it's a silly comparison anyway.
    - qntty 7y ago
      I think it's fair to compare socialized healthcare to fire departments or public education. The case of donating money to a fund raiser is silly though. It's hard to know how much you might be "obligated" to donate even if you argue that the amount is more than 0.
bluedino 7y ago
A better comparison would be, if they are behind on their property taxes? Should the trash man not stop at your house if you haven't paid your trash bill for the quartter?
- nradov 7y ago
  Trash collection is a public safety issue. We can't have trash building up, attracting pests and spreading disease. If they don't pay the trash bill then the trash man should still stop at their house. But then the local government should place a lien on the property, and if necessary sell it at auction to settle the bill.

supergauntlet 7y ago

>I know how much $$$ they spend on acohol a week. Are poor people not allowed to have fun? >I know how they got fired from their job for not showing up. Are depressed people not worthy of keeping alive? Do they not bring enough value to the table, so it's okay to just let them die? >I know they blew their tax return in a week. Is poor financial sense justification for not helping someone out that needs help? I dunno, these all seem like kinda tenuous justifications for not giving. By all means, it's your money. I'm not telling you how to spend it. Just that I don't agree with the core idea that poor people should live like hermits, that you know everything about people's lives, that not being taught finance by anyone is a solid justification for not giving. It seems rather post-hoc. Personally I don't think any of thse things should justify someone losing basic human rights like food, shelter, or health. This isn't to say the problem should be solved by private charity, it shouldn't. Can't, I would even say.

0xffff2 7y ago
>Are poor people not allowed to have fun? Not out of proportion with their income and expenses, no. You might as well ask "are middle class people not allowed to buy a Ferrari?" Of course they're allowed to, but they're going to have trouble raising money when they can't pay their mortgage. >Are depressed people not worthy of keeping alive? Do they not bring enough value to the table, so it's okay to just let them die? That's a pretty sweeping assumption, but to some extent what else are you going to do? If someone refuses to participate in society, it's not on me to bail them out. Otherwise I'd spend all my time on the streets of SF trying to fix people. >Is poor financial sense justification for not helping someone out that needs help? Yes, absolutely 100%, yes. No one else is entitled to your money. It doesn't even matter how tenuous the reasons are. There don't need to be any reasons to not give someone money.
ancorevard 7y ago
> justification for not helping someone out We should help this person out. But giving him money clearly is not the best way, in fact it may seem like giving him money is only enabling his bad lifestyle choices. Money is not the solution here.
homonculus1 7y ago

al2o3cr 7y ago

I'm not a cold hearted person Citation needed

whenchamenia 7y ago
Thats a personal attack, not allowen on hn. Please stop.

timoth3y 7y ago

> I know this person. I know how much $$$ they spend on acohol a week. I know how they got fired from their job for not showing up. I know they blew their tax return in a week. I'm not a cold hearted person but ... Well, you kind of are. That's basically of the definition of cold-hearted. It's 100% your legal and moral right to not contribute to these fundraisers. You could even argue that the best course of action here is to be cold-hearted, but you should at least own it.