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Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I don't really understand why that makes you reluctant to donate. It's not like your friend is trying to scam you or anything. T

Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I don't really understand why that makes you reluctant to donate. It's not like your friend is trying to scam you or anything. That money is actually going to a bill that they are required to pay. Most people I talk to don't even know they can negotiate hospital bills. Seems weird to act like your friend or GoFundMe is the villain here, when the issue is really a healthcare system that has a "secret menu".

reallydontask 7y ago
isn't the issue the fact that said friend could afford to pay the bill? This is not to detract from your comment about the system being broken
noncoml 7y ago
I am not so sure. When she has the money to pay for it, but instead chooses to portrait like she doesn't and asks others to pay for it, I think it's at least immoral. It goes without saying that the healthcare system is completely broken, but that doesn't justify above behavior.
- bbarn 7y ago
  200K in the bay area is not exactly wealthy. It's a solid middle to upper-middle class wage. Taking a 50K hit for something you did nothing to deserve, just because you love your parent is stupid. I would hate it if my daughter tried to do that for me.
  - imgabe 7y ago
    What did their friends and acquaintances do to deserve the bill?
    - warent 7y ago
      Sorry but this sounds a little bit backward to me. Helping a friend in need or being altruistic is never a punishment. It's like refusing to donate money to some cause because what did I do to deserve that? Really an odd statement.
    - superfrank 7y ago
      Nothing, but GoFundMe isn't an obligation, it's an ask.
      - dx7tnt 7y ago
        Until "hi how you doing, I saw you decided not to fund my father's healthcare" or "wow, $30, he makes 200k a year! What an asshole!"
  - retiredcoder 7y ago
    She wouldn’t take the bill as far it is concerned legally (as far as I know and dealt with medical bills myself). She might get mails and phone calls but the collection agency will not go after her assets, well unless her dad has assets in the USA. The story lacks some details but if she contact the hospital and negotiate based on that, they would likely reduce the bill. Is this moral or not that’s another question, but I agree that she had few options before asking people for money early on. Specially when making 200k.
  - maxxxxx 7y ago
    " I would hate it if my daughter tried to do that for me." But you are OK if other well-meaning people pay? If you make 200k you can take the hit and you should have known better.
    - onion2k 7y ago
      You do realise that if you buy insurance and don't claim anything that's literally you paying for other people's healthcare, right? That's how insurance works. The only difference between that and the socialised national health systems around the world is that you also pay for the insurance company's profit.
      - dpkonofa 7y ago
        I feel like I have to say this to everyone all the time when they try to defend the US as having the greatest healthcare system ever. It's literally impossible to offer the same service as a socialized, government program for cheaper when the non-socialized option has to make a profit. If a non-socialized system can drive costs down, so can a socialized provider. There's literally no situation where the socialized system loses on this.
        HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
        > There's literally no situation where the socialized system loses on this Actually, there is- it's when the socialized system decides they're good enough, and stops trying.
        onion2k 7y ago
        Thankfully here in the UK that sort of situation is incredibly rare. 99.9% of necessary treatments are available. That's one of the advantages of having socialised healthcare in a very wealthy country.
        gabyar 7y ago
        It's not "literally impossible". The socialized healthcare system could be corrupt, poorly run, or have other serious problems.
  - misterprime 7y ago
    200k may not be wealthy, but I bet it's enough for an annual vacation abroad. That is a luxury many cannot afford. I think it's really inappropriate to create a gofundme campaign in this situation.
    - sithlord 7y ago
      Because she should be responsible for her fathers condition?
      - misterprime 7y ago
        Because they are not in a position of need. There are other people which were more reliant on such help to avoid a disastrous situation. If this family got no crowd sourced help, I think they would have been OK. Of course, there are a lot of assumptions in this assessment. My comment has nothing to do with my opinion on the cost of medical services in the US. If you would like that, I think the Affordable Care Act used up a very rare opportunity for improvement to put us into a worse situation. What we really needed was a public option for the private companies to compete with. Here in California our subsidized option, Covered California, was horrendous, at least at launch. Also, subsidized was not enough to help, and the subsidization counted as taxable income which was a slap in the face for those who needed it.
  - root_axis 7y ago
    It's a high enough salary where the 50k bill is easily affordable on a repayment plan, which most hospitals offer interest free. She didn't need to beg others for money.
- richardthered 7y ago
  Firstly, I don't see how she has any legal obligation to pay for the medical care, at all. Your friend didn't get the medical care, her father did. Unless the father is a legal dependent of your friend, she isn't responsible for his medical expenses, at all. Secondly, it sounds like you are making assumptions about her overall financial status, based on what you know about her current salary. She might have substantial student debt, medical debt, spousal debt, be upside-down on a mortgage, have other family that she is supporting financially, etc. Just knowing someone's salary doesn't provide a very clear picture of their overall financial status.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- sithlord 7y ago
  she started a page to help her father, she isnt responsible for paying all of his bills, she just wanted to help out. At least thats what it seems to me.
nradov 7y ago
The story is missing some details so it isn't clear whether she actually has a legal obligation to pay the bill.
- noncoml 7y ago
  No legal obligation
retiredcoder 7y ago
The problem to me looks here > The ER bill was about $50k and she decided that the best way to pay it was by creating a GoFundMe campaign before she even tried to negotiate with the hospital or fight it with the insurance. For me it sounds like she could have done more on her own to solve this problem before “socializing” the solution. PS: Yes, healthcare is broken but at the end, she as a resident knows that and when someone comes to visit it is her responsibility to advise or buy a travelers insurance. It is not that expensive.
- DanBC 7y ago
  > It is not that expensive. It's prohibitively expensive for a wide range of people not in perfect health.
  - lbatx 7y ago
    No, travel insurance is not. They don't even ask health questions. The cost is based on the cost of your trip, and can be as little as $50-$100 for a decent plan on a $5k trip, and about $500 for a year.
    - DanBC 7y ago
      This article is about people who've had cancer at some point in their lives, even if they're currently cancer free and not having any treatment. That's what the FCA report focused on, but this problem affects 15 million people in the UK. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44601046 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44601046
    - netizzio 7y ago
      They might not ask health questions, but if you're not careful and don't disclose anything material, they're probably going to find a way to get out of paying when it comes to it. Travel insurance for older people with prior conditions can be expensive. My parents visited the US for a few weeks and their insurance cost something like $800 with a $500 deductible. Wasn't even that good either, with a stack of pages with terms and conditions. Fortunately they didn't have to use it.

reallydontask 7y ago

isn't the issue the fact that said friend could afford to pay the bill? This is not to detract from your comment about the system being broken

noncoml 7y ago

I am not so sure. When she has the money to pay for it, but instead chooses to portrait like she doesn't and asks others to pay for it, I think it's at least immoral. It goes without saying that the healthcare system is completely broken, but that doesn't justify above behavior.

bbarn 7y ago
200K in the bay area is not exactly wealthy. It's a solid middle to upper-middle class wage. Taking a 50K hit for something you did nothing to deserve, just because you love your parent is stupid. I would hate it if my daughter tried to do that for me.
- imgabe 7y ago
  What did their friends and acquaintances do to deserve the bill?
  - warent 7y ago
    Sorry but this sounds a little bit backward to me. Helping a friend in need or being altruistic is never a punishment. It's like refusing to donate money to some cause because what did I do to deserve that? Really an odd statement.
  - superfrank 7y ago
    Nothing, but GoFundMe isn't an obligation, it's an ask.
    - dx7tnt 7y ago
      Until "hi how you doing, I saw you decided not to fund my father's healthcare" or "wow, $30, he makes 200k a year! What an asshole!"
- retiredcoder 7y ago
  She wouldn’t take the bill as far it is concerned legally (as far as I know and dealt with medical bills myself). She might get mails and phone calls but the collection agency will not go after her assets, well unless her dad has assets in the USA. The story lacks some details but if she contact the hospital and negotiate based on that, they would likely reduce the bill. Is this moral or not that’s another question, but I agree that she had few options before asking people for money early on. Specially when making 200k.
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  " I would hate it if my daughter tried to do that for me." But you are OK if other well-meaning people pay? If you make 200k you can take the hit and you should have known better.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    You do realise that if you buy insurance and don't claim anything that's literally you paying for other people's healthcare, right? That's how insurance works. The only difference between that and the socialised national health systems around the world is that you also pay for the insurance company's profit.
    - dpkonofa 7y ago
      I feel like I have to say this to everyone all the time when they try to defend the US as having the greatest healthcare system ever. It's literally impossible to offer the same service as a socialized, government program for cheaper when the non-socialized option has to make a profit. If a non-socialized system can drive costs down, so can a socialized provider. There's literally no situation where the socialized system loses on this.
      - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
        > There's literally no situation where the socialized system loses on this Actually, there is- it's when the socialized system decides they're good enough, and stops trying.
        onion2k 7y ago
        Thankfully here in the UK that sort of situation is incredibly rare. 99.9% of necessary treatments are available. That's one of the advantages of having socialised healthcare in a very wealthy country.
      - gabyar 7y ago
        It's not "literally impossible". The socialized healthcare system could be corrupt, poorly run, or have other serious problems.
- misterprime 7y ago
  200k may not be wealthy, but I bet it's enough for an annual vacation abroad. That is a luxury many cannot afford. I think it's really inappropriate to create a gofundme campaign in this situation.
  - sithlord 7y ago
    Because she should be responsible for her fathers condition?
    - misterprime 7y ago
      Because they are not in a position of need. There are other people which were more reliant on such help to avoid a disastrous situation. If this family got no crowd sourced help, I think they would have been OK. Of course, there are a lot of assumptions in this assessment. My comment has nothing to do with my opinion on the cost of medical services in the US. If you would like that, I think the Affordable Care Act used up a very rare opportunity for improvement to put us into a worse situation. What we really needed was a public option for the private companies to compete with. Here in California our subsidized option, Covered California, was horrendous, at least at launch. Also, subsidized was not enough to help, and the subsidization counted as taxable income which was a slap in the face for those who needed it.
- root_axis 7y ago
  It's a high enough salary where the 50k bill is easily affordable on a repayment plan, which most hospitals offer interest free. She didn't need to beg others for money.
richardthered 7y ago
Firstly, I don't see how she has any legal obligation to pay for the medical care, at all. Your friend didn't get the medical care, her father did. Unless the father is a legal dependent of your friend, she isn't responsible for his medical expenses, at all. Secondly, it sounds like you are making assumptions about her overall financial status, based on what you know about her current salary. She might have substantial student debt, medical debt, spousal debt, be upside-down on a mortgage, have other family that she is supporting financially, etc. Just knowing someone's salary doesn't provide a very clear picture of their overall financial status.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
sithlord 7y ago
she started a page to help her father, she isnt responsible for paying all of his bills, she just wanted to help out. At least thats what it seems to me.

nradov 7y ago

The story is missing some details so it isn't clear whether she actually has a legal obligation to pay the bill.

noncoml 7y ago
No legal obligation

retiredcoder 7y ago

The problem to me looks here > The ER bill was about $50k and she decided that the best way to pay it was by creating a GoFundMe campaign before she even tried to negotiate with the hospital or fight it with the insurance. For me it sounds like she could have done more on her own to solve this problem before “socializing” the solution. PS: Yes, healthcare is broken but at the end, she as a resident knows that and when someone comes to visit it is her responsibility to advise or buy a travelers insurance. It is not that expensive.

DanBC 7y ago
> It is not that expensive. It's prohibitively expensive for a wide range of people not in perfect health.
- lbatx 7y ago
  No, travel insurance is not. They don't even ask health questions. The cost is based on the cost of your trip, and can be as little as $50-$100 for a decent plan on a $5k trip, and about $500 for a year.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    This article is about people who've had cancer at some point in their lives, even if they're currently cancer free and not having any treatment. That's what the FCA report focused on, but this problem affects 15 million people in the UK. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44601046 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44601046
  - netizzio 7y ago
    They might not ask health questions, but if you're not careful and don't disclose anything material, they're probably going to find a way to get out of paying when it comes to it. Travel insurance for older people with prior conditions can be expensive. My parents visited the US for a few weeks and their insurance cost something like $800 with a $500 deductible. Wasn't even that good either, with a stack of pages with terms and conditions. Fortunately they didn't have to use it.