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In January of this year, I was blessed with two beautiful fraternal twins. Twins come out earlier and are expected to be preemies usually. The problem was, they

In January of this year, I was blessed with two beautiful fraternal twins. Twins come out earlier and are expected to be preemies usually. The problem was, they were due on March 15. We spent two months in the NICU (newborn intensive care unit). The nurses couldn't be more amazing. They took care of those babies like they were their own. And along the way, they took care of us. They made sure nothing was ever missing. My sons got new pacifiers every time one got dirty. If their covers ever so slightly touch the floor it was thrown into the laundry basket. Their feeding tubes were constantly changed. I was grateful. My sons were born barely weighing 2 pounds, but they came out of the hospital as plump babies. Then the bill came. We have insurance. In fact, a very good insurance. The bill for the first born came a couple weeks later and it was in the amount of 1.25 million dollars. (I fainted) We called the insurance. They told us to wait, that the insurance will kick in. It kicked in and the bill came back rectified with the amount of 250k. The adjusted bill for the second child came shortly after. To give you an idea what is inside the bill, they moved the babies every couple days to a different section of the nicu. The bill showed that some section charged up to 20k a night. Those pacifiers that fell on the floor each cost 35 to 50 dollars. The formula they provided when we didn't bring breast milk cost hundreds of dollars. I don't have any credit card debt, I'm frugal when it comes to trivial purchases, I pay for what I can afford. I even have insurance. But then, there is a bill to pay. To this day, we are trying to get the bill to be a reasonable price. And so far, it seems like it's going to happen. We are very hopeful.

jelliclesfarm 7y ago
I am very sorry that you have to deal with this while celebrating the birth of your children. Have you considered legal help to navigate this and have someone advocate for you?
- foxfired 7y ago
  We did, that's why today I am not as worried as I was in those first week. We were advised that, with the insurance and Medical, it's possible we won't have to pay a cent for the babies. My wife medical bills were more reasonable and we already managed to pay them.
- asark 7y ago
  State insurance & hospital regulators can sometimes be helpful. Might try your state senator or representative's office. Sometimes if the officials are feeling salty they'll get directly involved and fix things for you, but at least their offices usually point you in the right direction for further help.
whymsicalburito 7y ago
Wow, that is a horrific situation, I truly hope it turns out well for your family. Does your policy have an out-of-pocket maximum? My HR department always gives us hypothetical situations and the out-of-pocket maximum is often portrayed as the saving grace that makes things like this not destroy your finances. Is this true or is my skepticism well placed?
- foxfired 7y ago
  The counselors at the hospital told me same thing. The out-of-pocket maximum was set to be $5,000 for the insurance. But they also gave us a ceiling (which I don't remember the exact amount at the moment). I was advised that to get Medical which, I did right away, and it is supposed to be retroactive.
  - wincy 7y ago
    Wow that’s crazy! I thought I was down on my luck last year when I got fired while my wife was pregnant. But medicaid has covered 100% of my daughter bills at the hospital. She’s been in the NICU for 8 months now. So even though I make a software engineer’s salary I haven’t had to pay anything. It’s weird that being unemployed saved me from the same hardship as you. I hope it all gets sorted and wish you all the best.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - JBlue42 7y ago
      Wishing the best for your daughter and family as well
  - scruple 7y ago
    This is frightening to read. How is this possible? My wife and I have 3 week old fraternal twin girls (wife is a living, breathing superwoman who carried them to full-term, despite being on strict bedrest from 26 weeks due to pre-term labor scare). We haven't gotten the bill yet but we had assumed that we were in the clear at this point because we've already reached the max (many, many months back, in fact).
yinyinwu 7y ago
I thought that insurance fees were capped at $7 - 10k even with high deductible plans. Even if the bill is split over two years, it's $20k. How does the insurance bill end up being so high?
munk-a 7y ago
This is terrible and I feel for you... but you might have insurance kick in to help you out. The absolutely amoral thing here is that people without insurance (or poor coverage) can end up getting a debt like this placed fully on their shoulders and be chased by debt collection for the rest of their lives. These costs were totally unreasonable, 35-50 dollars for a pacifier is just absurd and the fact that this price is hidden and reduced from most consumers means that it can continue being the sticker price. America needs to seriously fix this BS.
ThrustVectoring 7y ago
Whatever you do, don't raid your 401k or retirement plans to pay these kinds of debts. I'd also take a very strong position that you're only going to pay up to your out of pocket maximum, and file a regulatory complaint over any balance billing or failure to cover services above that. State regulations matter a hell of a lot here. I'm seriously considering moving to Texas because of debtor laws - any health incident can cause one to accumulate a large amount of "debt" in a hurry, and being able to tell creditors to pound sand gives a hell of a lot of peace of mind.
- arbuge 7y ago
  > I'm seriously considering moving to Texas because of debtor laws - any health incident can cause one to accumulate a large amount of "debt" in a hurry, and being able to tell creditors to pound sand gives a hell of a lot of peace of mind. Can you elaborate on this? What is so favorable about Texas law specifically as far as debtors are concerned?
  - ThrustVectoring 7y ago
    Wage garnishment isn't a thing for creditors like hospitals, unlimited IRA protection, homestead exemption in bankruptcy up to at least 10 acres (and case law includes the rented-out portion of duplexes through quadplexes), and annuities get exempted out too. Basically creditors can seize accounts and trash your credit rating, and that's about it in Texas.
taneq 7y ago
They can't possibly expect you to actually pay anything like that, can they? I think for having our first kid (including well regarded obstetrician and a two week stay in the NICU) we paid a total of around $5k. Three cheers for civilized countries with real healthcare! Not to mention the way they over-serviced you sounds downright exploitative. I wonder if the staff had been covertly told to use as many consumables as possible?
- bandushrew 7y ago
  2 sets of twins, one set spent 3 weeks in prenatal and they went through a bad bout of jaundice that needed care and treatment. total hospital bill: 0
grecy 7y ago
What a very sad story that regular people have to live in these conditions in the richest country in the world. What has gone so wrong?
jason_slack 7y ago
I was born at 5.5 months weighing just shy of 1.8 pounds. I was in a “toaster”, as my dad has put it, for many months. This is in New York. My parents had no insurance and never paid the hospital anywhere close to the amount. But this was 1977 so cheaper than your bill. Can HN help out? If you set up a GoFundMe account I will donate or I can send you a gift card to a grocery store of your choice. Congratulations on your babies and time will fix the financial concerns. For now your babies are the most important thing.
nicudad 7y ago
My second child had a problem at birth and out of an abundance of caution was rushed to the NICU unit in a nearby city. I agree this was reasonable. I also agree the NICU unit and hospital are professional, effective, and sincere. After a few days it was clear there was no ongoing problem and absolutely no issues. He was not a preemie. At this point the bill would have been around $100,000. But they insisted to keep him longer to be safe and we couldn't say no. Eventually he accumulated various hospital acquired infections and the stay had to be extended. After six weeks he was released. The bill was $1.5 million. Parents aren't allowed to say no. If they do it's evidence of neglect. And most parents wouldn't dare to and go with professional opinions. Entering the NICU was a room where you had to clean your hands and arms thoroughly. This is good. Doctors and staff weren't required to use this room and never did. The argument is they could use the wash stations inside the unit instead. So, what's the big deal? Well those doctors come in through the same door as visitors and they touch the door handle with their unsterile hands. Then the visitors/parents, having just sterilized, touch that door handle. I brought this up and it was discarded as nonsense. After all I am not an expert and they are. Yet still, subsequently, there was my kid, with an infection he got from the hospital. No problem man, only cost me a bit over a million. Not their issue.
- polotics 7y ago
  Thanks a lot. Very helpful to show this to my wife when she gets the idea of a research job in the US: It's. just. too. Dangerous!
- t0mbstone 7y ago
  I can't help but think you might be able to sue the hospital for following unsanitary procedures in the NICU? Have you talked to a lawyer?
tathougies 7y ago
Isnt there an out of pocket max?
pvaldes 7y ago
Would be "free" in Spain (free in the sense of being paid by the collective taxes of all workers and with price regulated by the government). There is a law to support fathers of premature babies also Is strange to hear this histories. USA really feels archaic in this sense.
BrandoElFollito 7y ago
This is a horrible situation to be in. My son was born with cardiac and hearing problems (thankfully all gone) and living in France the cost of the care was something I never thought of (during and after). I never saw the price, actually. It is only recently that you can see how much was spent on your health care, and this requires an action from you (otherwise you would not know).

jelliclesfarm 7y ago

I am very sorry that you have to deal with this while celebrating the birth of your children. Have you considered legal help to navigate this and have someone advocate for you?

foxfired 7y ago
We did, that's why today I am not as worried as I was in those first week. We were advised that, with the insurance and Medical, it's possible we won't have to pay a cent for the babies. My wife medical bills were more reasonable and we already managed to pay them.
asark 7y ago
State insurance & hospital regulators can sometimes be helpful. Might try your state senator or representative's office. Sometimes if the officials are feeling salty they'll get directly involved and fix things for you, but at least their offices usually point you in the right direction for further help.

whymsicalburito 7y ago

Wow, that is a horrific situation, I truly hope it turns out well for your family. Does your policy have an out-of-pocket maximum? My HR department always gives us hypothetical situations and the out-of-pocket maximum is often portrayed as the saving grace that makes things like this not destroy your finances. Is this true or is my skepticism well placed?

foxfired 7y ago
The counselors at the hospital told me same thing. The out-of-pocket maximum was set to be $5,000 for the insurance. But they also gave us a ceiling (which I don't remember the exact amount at the moment). I was advised that to get Medical which, I did right away, and it is supposed to be retroactive.
- wincy 7y ago
  Wow that’s crazy! I thought I was down on my luck last year when I got fired while my wife was pregnant. But medicaid has covered 100% of my daughter bills at the hospital. She’s been in the NICU for 8 months now. So even though I make a software engineer’s salary I haven’t had to pay anything. It’s weird that being unemployed saved me from the same hardship as you. I hope it all gets sorted and wish you all the best.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - JBlue42 7y ago
    Wishing the best for your daughter and family as well
- scruple 7y ago
  This is frightening to read. How is this possible? My wife and I have 3 week old fraternal twin girls (wife is a living, breathing superwoman who carried them to full-term, despite being on strict bedrest from 26 weeks due to pre-term labor scare). We haven't gotten the bill yet but we had assumed that we were in the clear at this point because we've already reached the max (many, many months back, in fact).

yinyinwu 7y ago

I thought that insurance fees were capped at $7 - 10k even with high deductible plans. Even if the bill is split over two years, it's $20k. How does the insurance bill end up being so high?

munk-a 7y ago

This is terrible and I feel for you... but you might have insurance kick in to help you out. The absolutely amoral thing here is that people without insurance (or poor coverage) can end up getting a debt like this placed fully on their shoulders and be chased by debt collection for the rest of their lives. These costs were totally unreasonable, 35-50 dollars for a pacifier is just absurd and the fact that this price is hidden and reduced from most consumers means that it can continue being the sticker price. America needs to seriously fix this BS.

ThrustVectoring 7y ago

Whatever you do, don't raid your 401k or retirement plans to pay these kinds of debts. I'd also take a very strong position that you're only going to pay up to your out of pocket maximum, and file a regulatory complaint over any balance billing or failure to cover services above that. State regulations matter a hell of a lot here. I'm seriously considering moving to Texas because of debtor laws - any health incident can cause one to accumulate a large amount of "debt" in a hurry, and being able to tell creditors to pound sand gives a hell of a lot of peace of mind.

arbuge 7y ago
> I'm seriously considering moving to Texas because of debtor laws - any health incident can cause one to accumulate a large amount of "debt" in a hurry, and being able to tell creditors to pound sand gives a hell of a lot of peace of mind. Can you elaborate on this? What is so favorable about Texas law specifically as far as debtors are concerned?
- ThrustVectoring 7y ago
  Wage garnishment isn't a thing for creditors like hospitals, unlimited IRA protection, homestead exemption in bankruptcy up to at least 10 acres (and case law includes the rented-out portion of duplexes through quadplexes), and annuities get exempted out too. Basically creditors can seize accounts and trash your credit rating, and that's about it in Texas.

taneq 7y ago

They can't possibly expect you to actually pay anything like that, can they? I think for having our first kid (including well regarded obstetrician and a two week stay in the NICU) we paid a total of around $5k. Three cheers for civilized countries with real healthcare! Not to mention the way they over-serviced you sounds downright exploitative. I wonder if the staff had been covertly told to use as many consumables as possible?

bandushrew 7y ago
2 sets of twins, one set spent 3 weeks in prenatal and they went through a bad bout of jaundice that needed care and treatment. total hospital bill: 0

grecy 7y ago

What a very sad story that regular people have to live in these conditions in the richest country in the world. What has gone so wrong?

jason_slack 7y ago

I was born at 5.5 months weighing just shy of 1.8 pounds. I was in a “toaster”, as my dad has put it, for many months. This is in New York. My parents had no insurance and never paid the hospital anywhere close to the amount. But this was 1977 so cheaper than your bill. Can HN help out? If you set up a GoFundMe account I will donate or I can send you a gift card to a grocery store of your choice. Congratulations on your babies and time will fix the financial concerns. For now your babies are the most important thing.

nicudad 7y ago

My second child had a problem at birth and out of an abundance of caution was rushed to the NICU unit in a nearby city. I agree this was reasonable. I also agree the NICU unit and hospital are professional, effective, and sincere. After a few days it was clear there was no ongoing problem and absolutely no issues. He was not a preemie. At this point the bill would have been around $100,000. But they insisted to keep him longer to be safe and we couldn't say no. Eventually he accumulated various hospital acquired infections and the stay had to be extended. After six weeks he was released. The bill was $1.5 million. Parents aren't allowed to say no. If they do it's evidence of neglect. And most parents wouldn't dare to and go with professional opinions. Entering the NICU was a room where you had to clean your hands and arms thoroughly. This is good. Doctors and staff weren't required to use this room and never did. The argument is they could use the wash stations inside the unit instead. So, what's the big deal? Well those doctors come in through the same door as visitors and they touch the door handle with their unsterile hands. Then the visitors/parents, having just sterilized, touch that door handle. I brought this up and it was discarded as nonsense. After all I am not an expert and they are. Yet still, subsequently, there was my kid, with an infection he got from the hospital. No problem man, only cost me a bit over a million. Not their issue.

polotics 7y ago
Thanks a lot. Very helpful to show this to my wife when she gets the idea of a research job in the US: It's. just. too. Dangerous!
t0mbstone 7y ago
I can't help but think you might be able to sue the hospital for following unsanitary procedures in the NICU? Have you talked to a lawyer?

tathougies 7y ago

Isnt there an out of pocket max?

pvaldes 7y ago

Would be "free" in Spain (free in the sense of being paid by the collective taxes of all workers and with price regulated by the government). There is a law to support fathers of premature babies also Is strange to hear this histories. USA really feels archaic in this sense.

BrandoElFollito 7y ago

This is a horrible situation to be in. My son was born with cardiac and hearing problems (thankfully all gone) and living in France the cost of the care was something I never thought of (during and after). I never saw the price, actually. It is only recently that you can see how much was spent on your health care, and this requires an action from you (otherwise you would not know).