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Thermal solar can produce constant output. As can any system with sufficient storage capacity, be it battery or otherwise. It seems like most critiques of alte

Thermal solar can produce constant output. As can any system with sufficient storage capacity, be it battery or otherwise. It seems like most critiques of alternate energy come from a place of ignorance about alternative energy. No offense, it's just frustrating to hear people say "I care so much!" and then they don't even understand the basic landscape about which they claim to be so deeply concerned. It also seems to be the one area of technology where people suddenly lose all capacity to understand that technology changes, that the solutions we have today are not the solutions we will have tomorrow, and more investment always leads to more solutions. So many prefer to throw their arms up and say "It's impossible! Sometimes the wind doesn't blow so we're doomed!"

godelski 7y ago
Okay, but I'm a scientist and I do interact with climate scientists. I specifically addressed your storage capacity comment. Be realistic, we just aren't there YET. We're close, but not there as of the writing of this comment. Energy is extremely complex. There is no easy solution like you're suggesting. Solar thermal won't work everywhere in the US. Wind doesn't work everywhere either. I'm tired of people that counter nuanced comments by saying "you're so dumb. Here's a singular technology that'll solve all those problems. You're clearly not as smart as me." I'll give you a hint, no singular technology is ever going to solve all the energy problems. People live in vastly different climates. These different areas have very different constraints on them. And in no way is my comment anywhere close to throwing up my arms and saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's difficult. Really REALLY difficult. So yes, I do take offense. Everything you wrote is specifically addressed. For example I said we can't bet on batteries solving the problem, hence the hedge to nuclear (but also putting more funding into battery research). It's an all your eggs in one basket problem. You need to diversify. I don't know any energy or climate researcher that doesn't think you don't need to diversify. Or a single one that thinks we can solve the problem with current solar (including solar thermal), wind, hydro, and current battery technology. Not a single one. I'm not saying we're doomed (come on, that's a really disengenuous statement and I expect better out of HN). But I am saying that this is a really difficult and complex problem that millions of man hours a year are being put into and we still haven't solved it. It isn't some conspiracy that's preventing it from being solved, it is the difficulty of the problem. Every day we get a little closer (and it is a converging solution) but it's naive to claim we have it solved, even in the theoretical sense. So please, if you're going to call people naive doomsayers, please actually read the comments you are responding to, digest them, and do talk to the actual scientists.
- imtringued 7y ago
  You're so dumb here is a multitude of technologies that will work in concert that'll solve all those problems: lithium batteries, polymer and vanadium based flow batteries, thermal storage, compressed air storage (both offshore and onshore), power2gas(hydrogen and methane), not burning natural natural gas until needed(oh a classic!), hydro dams, conventional pumped hydro and hydraulic hydro, gravity battery cranes. You're clearly not as smart as me.
  - dang 7y ago
    Commenting like this will get you banned here. No more of this please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Gibbon1 7y ago
> Thermal solar can produce constant output. Problem with solar thermal is the cost of PV solar and wind has dropped so far it'd be cheaper to just heat your molten salt reservoir with electricity from PV or Wind. Worst case you get 50% of the energy back. Which means you only need to resell the stored power at ~2X plus overhead and capital costs to make a profit. Out of my kiester make it 2.5X then. Buying PV solar for $50/MWH during the day and reselling it for $125MWH at night seems like a perfectly reasonable business model. Much as I dislike reflexive 'free markets will solve all our problems' this seems like a case where that would work 'fine'.

godelski 7y ago

Okay, but I'm a scientist and I do interact with climate scientists. I specifically addressed your storage capacity comment. Be realistic, we just aren't there YET. We're close, but not there as of the writing of this comment. Energy is extremely complex. There is no easy solution like you're suggesting. Solar thermal won't work everywhere in the US. Wind doesn't work everywhere either. I'm tired of people that counter nuanced comments by saying "you're so dumb. Here's a singular technology that'll solve all those problems. You're clearly not as smart as me." I'll give you a hint, no singular technology is ever going to solve all the energy problems. People live in vastly different climates. These different areas have very different constraints on them. And in no way is my comment anywhere close to throwing up my arms and saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's difficult. Really REALLY difficult. So yes, I do take offense. Everything you wrote is specifically addressed. For example I said we can't bet on batteries solving the problem, hence the hedge to nuclear (but also putting more funding into battery research). It's an all your eggs in one basket problem. You need to diversify. I don't know any energy or climate researcher that doesn't think you don't need to diversify. Or a single one that thinks we can solve the problem with current solar (including solar thermal), wind, hydro, and current battery technology. Not a single one. I'm not saying we're doomed (come on, that's a really disengenuous statement and I expect better out of HN). But I am saying that this is a really difficult and complex problem that millions of man hours a year are being put into and we still haven't solved it. It isn't some conspiracy that's preventing it from being solved, it is the difficulty of the problem. Every day we get a little closer (and it is a converging solution) but it's naive to claim we have it solved, even in the theoretical sense. So please, if you're going to call people naive doomsayers, please actually read the comments you are responding to, digest them, and do talk to the actual scientists.

imtringued 7y ago
You're so dumb here is a multitude of technologies that will work in concert that'll solve all those problems: lithium batteries, polymer and vanadium based flow batteries, thermal storage, compressed air storage (both offshore and onshore), power2gas(hydrogen and methane), not burning natural natural gas until needed(oh a classic!), hydro dams, conventional pumped hydro and hydraulic hydro, gravity battery cranes. You're clearly not as smart as me.
- dang 7y ago
  Commenting like this will get you banned here. No more of this please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Gibbon1 7y ago

> Thermal solar can produce constant output. Problem with solar thermal is the cost of PV solar and wind has dropped so far it'd be cheaper to just heat your molten salt reservoir with electricity from PV or Wind. Worst case you get 50% of the energy back. Which means you only need to resell the stored power at ~2X plus overhead and capital costs to make a profit. Out of my kiester make it 2.5X then. Buying PV solar for $50/MWH during the day and reselling it for $125MWH at night seems like a perfectly reasonable business model. Much as I dislike reflexive 'free markets will solve all our problems' this seems like a case where that would work 'fine'.