4 ms·

I think it is still a good thing to subsidize electric cars for several reasons: 1) even if powered 100% by coal plants, these plants have an higher efficiency

I think it is still a good thing to subsidize electric cars for several reasons: 1) even if powered 100% by coal plants, these plants have an higher efficiency than cars' internal combustion engines, especially if you consider the energy/co2 emissions due to the distillation process of petrol/diesel. Moreover, having a huge central plant means that you can install heavy and big filters and possibly re-capture some of that co2. You can't do this with cars 2) not all the power comes from coal plants, some from nuclear, some from natural gas, and even from renewables sources 3) when we finally crack nuclear fusion / thorium reactors / we found a way to store the surplus of renewables for underperforming times in a good way (like with molten salt https://newatlas.com/mit-molten-salt-battery-membrane/53085/ https://newatlas.com/mit-molten-salt-battery-membrane/53085/ ) we can be carbon free from as soon as these technologies spread, without having to way for consumers to change cars 4) Pushing people to use newer technologies means that companies will spend more in R&D on this subject. Imagine if someone finally invents a battery with energy capacity of 5x current Li-ion. A car like the model 3 will have ~ 1500 kms of range ... Of course there are points in favor of petrol/diesel cars, like the fact that producing current batteries is not that good for the environment, but if we don't invest on this we'll never have the incentive to overcome these problems.

legitster 7y ago
> "when we finally crack nuclear fusion / thorium reactors / we found a way to store the surplus of renewables" > "Imagine if someone finally invents a battery with energy capacity of 5x ". 3 & 4 are exactly examples of the original point I was making. We shouldn't plan out decisions today based on the lottery machine of future discoveries. None of these advancements are guaranteed. In the 1910s, steam power was the most promising tech for the development of the automobile. It's hard to imagine a world where we could have just dumped enough R&D into steam power to overcome the natural shortcomings.
- qtplatypus 7y ago
  We did. Our coal and nuclear power plants are very efficient steam engines.
nopzor 7y ago
> A car like the model 3 will have ~ 1500 kms of range more likely it'll have ~ 700km of range, but only cost half the price!
Arbalest 7y ago
> even if powered 100% by coal plants, these plants have an higher efficiency than cars' internal combustion engines Yes they have incredible thermal efficiency, but two things come to mind: The grid does not, and coal has particular difficulty in controlling particulate emissions. This is particularly true of brown coal, which has a very high water content. Just to be particularly frustrating, coal is not distilled the way diesel is (which is famous for particulate emissions) so it tends to have other stuff like excessive sulphur. Though in that case, that stuff ends up in the bunker oil that goes in big ships.

legitster 7y ago

> "when we finally crack nuclear fusion / thorium reactors / we found a way to store the surplus of renewables" > "Imagine if someone finally invents a battery with energy capacity of 5x ". 3 & 4 are exactly examples of the original point I was making. We shouldn't plan out decisions today based on the lottery machine of future discoveries. None of these advancements are guaranteed. In the 1910s, steam power was the most promising tech for the development of the automobile. It's hard to imagine a world where we could have just dumped enough R&D into steam power to overcome the natural shortcomings.

qtplatypus 7y ago
We did. Our coal and nuclear power plants are very efficient steam engines.

nopzor 7y ago

> A car like the model 3 will have ~ 1500 kms of range more likely it'll have ~ 700km of range, but only cost half the price!

Arbalest 7y ago

> even if powered 100% by coal plants, these plants have an higher efficiency than cars' internal combustion engines Yes they have incredible thermal efficiency, but two things come to mind: The grid does not, and coal has particular difficulty in controlling particulate emissions. This is particularly true of brown coal, which has a very high water content. Just to be particularly frustrating, coal is not distilled the way diesel is (which is famous for particulate emissions) so it tends to have other stuff like excessive sulphur. Though in that case, that stuff ends up in the bunker oil that goes in big ships.