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It’s interesting that there was quite the criticism of the US “mag stripe” cards when Europe was chip and pin. I recall many Europeans claiming that their syste

It’s interesting that there was quite the criticism of the US “mag stripe” cards when Europe was chip and pin. I recall many Europeans claiming that their system was far more secure and “better.” However, chip and pin puts liability on the customer for fraudulent transactions, while in the US, the liability is on the merchant.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
They seem to be orthogonal, if we still just had magstripes then it would be super easy to clone your card and make transactions using it because there's no second factor needed. At least the criminals now have to be organised. The response to the fraudulent transaction would surely be the same as that's either the bank's call or/legislative.
Nursie 7y ago
This is not really true. The merchant takes liability on some transaction types. In the UK, any credit card transaction that is flagged by the customer, regardless of chip and pin, is immediately refunded and investigated. However - as card cloning of chip and pin cards is still effectively at zero, it's very unlikely that fraudulent chip and pin transactions ever take place without, say, the card being stolen as well.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  I've got nothing to contribute, except that pretty much every time I ask a PM for clarification on a concern I have at work and they say "oh, that can't happen/never happens" it happens about 30 seconds later. Or it happened 30 seconds ago, which is why I was asking.
  - Nursie 7y ago
    Chip and Pin has been out in the wild for what ... 17 years in the UK where I am? And round a lot of the world. So far it has resisted cloning admirably. I'm not saying Card-present fraud can't ever happen with EMV cards, or that customer liability is the right thing to have, but this technology really does seem to have held up well to attack. Possibly because there are just easier ways to defraud people...

pbhjpbhj 7y ago

They seem to be orthogonal, if we still just had magstripes then it would be super easy to clone your card and make transactions using it because there's no second factor needed. At least the criminals now have to be organised. The response to the fraudulent transaction would surely be the same as that's either the bank's call or/legislative.

Nursie 7y ago

This is not really true. The merchant takes liability on some transaction types. In the UK, any credit card transaction that is flagged by the customer, regardless of chip and pin, is immediately refunded and investigated. However - as card cloning of chip and pin cards is still effectively at zero, it's very unlikely that fraudulent chip and pin transactions ever take place without, say, the card being stolen as well.

perl4ever 7y ago
I've got nothing to contribute, except that pretty much every time I ask a PM for clarification on a concern I have at work and they say "oh, that can't happen/never happens" it happens about 30 seconds later. Or it happened 30 seconds ago, which is why I was asking.
- Nursie 7y ago
  Chip and Pin has been out in the wild for what ... 17 years in the UK where I am? And round a lot of the world. So far it has resisted cloning admirably. I'm not saying Card-present fraud can't ever happen with EMV cards, or that customer liability is the right thing to have, but this technology really does seem to have held up well to attack. Possibly because there are just easier ways to defraud people...