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The simplest consumer-friendly solution would be:= to make consumers whole: if I receive a counterfeit item, Amazon should send me a genuine replacement immedia

by atotic 7y ago

The simplest consumer-friendly solution would be:= to make consumers whole: if I receive a counterfeit item, Amazon should send me a genuine replacement immediately free of charge, and pay me $5 for my time if they want the counterfeit item back. I think it would pay off for Amazon in the long run. Right now, I avoid Amazon for any significant purchases, because I do not trust them.

brankoB 7y ago
What if you don't realize it's a counterfeit?
- blunte 7y ago
  This is trickier, and it also happens to "real stores" as well. If someone in the middle of the supply chain does a switch from real goods to counterfeit, it can go unnoticed by everyone downstream. However, when someone DOES notice, the situation must be remedied. Amazon should be liable to some degree for everything they sell. Consumers should have recourse. Maybe they already do? Can they return for a refund from Amazon if they dispute the authenticity of the product?
  - therein 7y ago
    > Can they return for a refund from Amazon if they dispute the authenticity of the product? Yes, very easily but that's not enough because Amazon still profits so massively from everyone else that it doesn't even raise a bell in their accounting.
- Cthulhu_ 7y ago
  That's a good one, the ones in this article are pretty bad / obvious counterfeits, but for things like idk, clothing it can be harder to spot them. But that's where customs should come in; counterfeiting products is illegal, selling fake brand clothing is illegal, and if Amazon sells them they can (and should) be held accountable. It's that branch of law enforcement's job to protect both consumers and brands from counterfeits, you pay taxes for that reason.
  - neaden 7y ago
    Even the ones in the article, I think most people would assume it was a problem with a legitimate printer rather than realizing it was a counterfeit.
amelius 7y ago
Shouldn't a counterfeited item be reported to the authorities?
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  It's a civil dispute between the parties involved, not a crime (in most cases) and if it's a crime it's probably most easily prosecuted under criminal negligence or something like that. It's basically lying and lying isn't illegal except in specific circumstances.
  - chongli 7y ago
    Counterfeiting is a crime in the US. The act of importing counterfeit goods into the US can get you arrested at the border, as an individual. However, Amazon seems to have been given a free pass.
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  I work in international freight, so I can only cofidently talk about the import side. From my understanding/experience, dealing with counterfeit items is mostly the responsibility of the IP owner and mostly handled at borders, for the United States you mostly find this in 19 CFR 133 for intellectual property rights. For trade name stuff, the trade name must have been in use for at least 6 months. For trademark it has to be registered in Washington DC at the Patent Office, is good for 20 years, has to be registered with Customs and has a fee to register. Copyright stuff is similar to trademark. If Customs has suspicion of trade name/trade mark infringement they will detain the shipment, notify the importer of record and the IOR has 30 days to respond and get owner's approval for release of the shipment. The IP owner will also be notified with the date of import, port, name of manufacturer and the importer of record, the country of origin and then the owner has 30 days to respond before release, if the owner wants to stop the shipment they have to post a bond for the value of the shipment at which point Customs will provide a sample and the owner can decide to release the shipment to the importer of record , allow the importer of record to export it out of the country or to remove the objectionable mark before it can be released. For counterfeit merchandise, Customs will seize and/or destroy it and they will notify the IP owner the names of the importer of record, manufacturer, country of origin and quantity. For patents, has to be registered with the Patent Office and is good for 20 years. If there is infringement a import survey can be requested and and exclusion order can be obtained from the International Trade Commission. For grey market articles (genuine articles but not permitted to be imported into the united states, think licensing agreement/authorized reseller type thing) it will get detained, it will be checked against a database, if the importer of record is on the allowed list it will be released and if not the shipment is seized. The problem with this is, Customs doesn't manually inspect every single shipment so it is fairly easy to get the vast majority of counterfeit goods in. Once it is inside the country, it's basically entirely on the company that's product has been counterfeited to identify counterfeit merchandise, identify sellers and pursue legal action. --- I've seen plenty of tales on reddit and elsewhere of individuals selling knock off Oakleys/Coach bags etc get letters from the owners/their law firms and some instances of suit. If you're selling small amounts, one can fly under the radar, if you're insulated somewhat by Amazon/FBA then it can also slow down all but larger companies from coming after you. If you do get caught, my understanding is they'll usually cease and desist you. If you persist, they can come after you under the Lanham Act for 3x profit or damages (whichever is greater).
chongli 7y ago
And what if you can't be made whole? What if a counterfeit product causes serious injury or death to you or your family members? Amazon should be held liable for it!
chadash 7y ago
They do. I ordered a corkscrew (https://www.amazon.com/Pulltaps-Double-Hinged-Waiters-Corkscrew-Stainless/dp/B0055OGPWS https://www.amazon.com/Pulltaps-Double-Hinged-Waiters-Corksc...), got a fake one and complained. Amazon gave me a refund, a $5 credit for the hassle and didn't make me return the fake one. But it's incredible that the problem goes so far that people are selling fake corkscrews!

by atotic 7y ago

brankoB 7y ago

What if you don't realize it's a counterfeit?

blunte 7y ago
This is trickier, and it also happens to "real stores" as well. If someone in the middle of the supply chain does a switch from real goods to counterfeit, it can go unnoticed by everyone downstream. However, when someone DOES notice, the situation must be remedied. Amazon should be liable to some degree for everything they sell. Consumers should have recourse. Maybe they already do? Can they return for a refund from Amazon if they dispute the authenticity of the product?
- therein 7y ago
  > Can they return for a refund from Amazon if they dispute the authenticity of the product? Yes, very easily but that's not enough because Amazon still profits so massively from everyone else that it doesn't even raise a bell in their accounting.
Cthulhu_ 7y ago
That's a good one, the ones in this article are pretty bad / obvious counterfeits, but for things like idk, clothing it can be harder to spot them. But that's where customs should come in; counterfeiting products is illegal, selling fake brand clothing is illegal, and if Amazon sells them they can (and should) be held accountable. It's that branch of law enforcement's job to protect both consumers and brands from counterfeits, you pay taxes for that reason.
- neaden 7y ago
  Even the ones in the article, I think most people would assume it was a problem with a legitimate printer rather than realizing it was a counterfeit.

amelius 7y ago

Shouldn't a counterfeited item be reported to the authorities?

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
It's a civil dispute between the parties involved, not a crime (in most cases) and if it's a crime it's probably most easily prosecuted under criminal negligence or something like that. It's basically lying and lying isn't illegal except in specific circumstances.
- chongli 7y ago
  Counterfeiting is a crime in the US. The act of importing counterfeit goods into the US can get you arrested at the border, as an individual. However, Amazon seems to have been given a free pass.
ryanmercer 7y ago
I work in international freight, so I can only cofidently talk about the import side. From my understanding/experience, dealing with counterfeit items is mostly the responsibility of the IP owner and mostly handled at borders, for the United States you mostly find this in 19 CFR 133 for intellectual property rights. For trade name stuff, the trade name must have been in use for at least 6 months. For trademark it has to be registered in Washington DC at the Patent Office, is good for 20 years, has to be registered with Customs and has a fee to register. Copyright stuff is similar to trademark. If Customs has suspicion of trade name/trade mark infringement they will detain the shipment, notify the importer of record and the IOR has 30 days to respond and get owner's approval for release of the shipment. The IP owner will also be notified with the date of import, port, name of manufacturer and the importer of record, the country of origin and then the owner has 30 days to respond before release, if the owner wants to stop the shipment they have to post a bond for the value of the shipment at which point Customs will provide a sample and the owner can decide to release the shipment to the importer of record , allow the importer of record to export it out of the country or to remove the objectionable mark before it can be released. For counterfeit merchandise, Customs will seize and/or destroy it and they will notify the IP owner the names of the importer of record, manufacturer, country of origin and quantity. For patents, has to be registered with the Patent Office and is good for 20 years. If there is infringement a import survey can be requested and and exclusion order can be obtained from the International Trade Commission. For grey market articles (genuine articles but not permitted to be imported into the united states, think licensing agreement/authorized reseller type thing) it will get detained, it will be checked against a database, if the importer of record is on the allowed list it will be released and if not the shipment is seized. The problem with this is, Customs doesn't manually inspect every single shipment so it is fairly easy to get the vast majority of counterfeit goods in. Once it is inside the country, it's basically entirely on the company that's product has been counterfeited to identify counterfeit merchandise, identify sellers and pursue legal action. --- I've seen plenty of tales on reddit and elsewhere of individuals selling knock off Oakleys/Coach bags etc get letters from the owners/their law firms and some instances of suit. If you're selling small amounts, one can fly under the radar, if you're insulated somewhat by Amazon/FBA then it can also slow down all but larger companies from coming after you. If you do get caught, my understanding is they'll usually cease and desist you. If you persist, they can come after you under the Lanham Act for 3x profit or damages (whichever is greater).

chongli 7y ago

And what if you can't be made whole? What if a counterfeit product causes serious injury or death to you or your family members? Amazon should be held liable for it!

chadash 7y ago

They do. I ordered a corkscrew (https://www.amazon.com/Pulltaps-Double-Hinged-Waiters-Corkscrew-Stainless/dp/B0055OGPWS https://www.amazon.com/Pulltaps-Double-Hinged-Waiters-Corksc...), got a fake one and complained. Amazon gave me a refund, a $5 credit for the hassle and didn't make me return the fake one. But it's incredible that the problem goes so far that people are selling fake corkscrews!