7 ms·

Security expert calls out Costco and other retailers on bag searches

25 points by sunkenvicar 7y ago

sunkenvicar 7y ago
I’ve always felt like a criminal when I leave Costco. I am forced under threat of membership cancellation to show my receipt, cart contents, and bag contents to an employee.
- adrr 7y ago
  I am fine with the Costco policy since its in the terms of membership and Costco is a club. If you're random retailer and wanting to search for people who haven't agreed to anything since the store is open to the public, that is a problem.
  - arkades 7y ago
    How does this in any way differ from any other retailer, except that Costco adds an admission fee? Waving a magical membership wand over my head doesn’t change any of the material facts.
    - kasey_junk 7y ago
      You literally consented to it in writing when you became a member.
      - insickness 7y ago
        It's arguable whether this is legal even if you signed a contract. There are many legal rights that can't be signed away in a contract (e.g. someone has the right to beat you up, etc.)
        praneshp 7y ago
        > It's arguable whether this is legal even if you signed a contract If you ever take Costco to court, I'll follow along curiously. In a lawsuit-hungry country like the US, I'm not sure how long a large company like Costco can get away with something illegal in their contract.
        tedunangst 7y ago
        Signing a contract that says "you can look in my bag" doesn't seem like it would be one of the automatically void unconscionable contracts.
        adrr 7y ago
        A lot of fulfillment companies search their employees when they leave. Its only time I've seen metal detectors used when leaving a building. On the corporate side, I am required to disclose all my financial dealings including non-public equity deals(stock options in startups I work at) to my wife's work. If I don't, she can get fired.
      - sunkenvicar 7y ago
        No one reads the fine print.
    - mikeash 7y ago
      It’s relevant because that membership, which is the one thing that sets Costco apart, is also their only remedy. They don’t get to chase you down. They don’t get to hold you. They can’t call the police. (Well, they can, but the police won’t give a shit.) All they can do is refuse to let you buy more stuff from them. Everybody gets to do what they want. Costco can ask to check your stuff. You can refuse. Costco can cancel your membership. None of these things are problematic.
- jedmeyers 7y ago
  There have been stories about Costco exit check not being about theft at all, it’s mostly about checking for possible errors or fraud on the part of the cashier
  - tonyarkles 7y ago
    I've had them catch mistakes before, like an item being double-scanned. I was actually pretty impressed that they looked at the total count on the receipt and cross-checked it against the contents of the cart.
  - masonic 7y ago
    Back when Costco accepted Discover and allowed cash-over on purchases, when I took cash over, I would be asked by the receipt-checker, "did you get your $30?". On two separate occasions, I had in fact forgotten. One of those, I was given the missing cash immediately without question. The other time, the manager was skeptical but agreed to close and count the drawer, and I received the $30 immediately after that process.
- btgeekboy 7y ago
  Have they ever actually checked you that closely? Every time I leave Costco, it’s a cursory glance, a swipe of a marker (which prevents receipt reuse), and that’s it.
- bigmattystyles 7y ago
  Same at Home Depot, the ceaseless beeping informing to the presence of surveillance when any movement is detected is enough to drive you insane. I’m just looking at drill bits for crying out loud! They even have a screen showing you a supposed live feed of the security room where people are presumably supervising the feed from the surveillance camera...
  - crankylinuxuser 7y ago
    Worse yet, at our kroger (0), in many higher margin aisles are cameras and lcd screens hanging from the ceilings. They turn on to show the customer that they see us. You could possibly cover your face, but I'm pretty sure store personnel would ask you to leave. My much more sardonic and dark view are that these cameras and the associated "kroger loyalty card" are going to an internal database to show how we travel through the store, what we look at, and how long. Of course, theft is an incidental plus to stop. We already know for quite some time that Target (1) uses your credit card as the user hash, much like a loyalty card. There's no opting out of this one. (0) https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kroger/@39.1636963,-86.5898157,15.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x886c6761e3bba689:0x5a9fe2f9421688b4!8m2!3d39.1626063!4d-86.5805966 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kroger/@39.1636963,-86.589... (1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/#62a21d806668 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ...
    - Stratoscope 7y ago
      > You could possibly cover your face, but I'm pretty sure store personnel would ask you to leave. Now that sounds like fun. Is there a store like this on the San Francisco Peninsula so I can try it and see what happens?
      - crankylinuxuser 7y ago
        Uhh, I have no clue. But I would assume that every major store that has cameras (all!) probably feed their video output to a ML classifier for facial recog and dwell times/locations in aisles. And if I were constructing such a system (I'M NOT!), I'd also tie it to the cash registers for complete path history and item purchase history, whether you use a 'shopper card' or not. The only way I think you would have legal standing with a full shorud over your face is if you're a female Muslim adherent. In that case, I think you'd be defended by the 1st amendment protections. Then again, that also sounds like a 2-5 year legal battle assuming SCOTUS would even get involved. But you being in SF, the 9th circuit would likely go in favor of 1st amendment. Long story short, our freedoms and relative anonymity are probably completely fucked. And those that demand privacy/anonymity are few and far enough between that we would be easily profiled in other ways.
reaperducer 7y ago
Twice I've had a bad experience shopping or at the check-out stand, and decided I'd had enough of a particular store so I just kept walking past the "courtesy" check. Nobody's ever protested or followed me. If they did, I'd tell them that I paid for my stuff and my business with their store is complete. If some day someone presses the point, I hope I'll have the courage to keep on walking and let them try to send the police to my house to enforce some kind of receipt check. I'm sure the police will get right on that.
- igetspam 7y ago
  I had some kid stop me, after I'd checked out at a Target. He wanted to see my receipt and I asked him why. He couldn't really provide an answer without accusing me of being a thief. I not-so-politely asked him if he was accusing me of something and let him know that of he wasn't, he needed to walk away. My wife was angry, embarrassed and proud. Our daughter was barely a year old, so she won't remember but this is how we'll teach her to always handle situations like this. Don't let people treat you like a criminal.
  - lstamour 7y ago
    Best Buy stations people near the exits to check receipts, as does Wal-Mart with greeters, and on busy shopping days Best Buy has been known to post signs saying all receipts will be checked and bags provided at the exits. I don’t see it as that much of an inconvenience to stand in a line with everyone else as the receipt and items are checked one last time. I can’t say it’s effective at catching problems but it probably acts as a good deterrent on a very busy, crowded day... presumably they’re trying to prevent someone from skipping the cash registers on their way out... Canadian Tire, now there’s a terrible shopping experience, security gates make it nearly impossible to leave without buying something and they still check your receipts as you leave.
    - antonvs 7y ago
      > I don’t see it as that much of an inconvenience to stand in a line with everyone else as the receipt and items are checked one last time. It violates your legal rights though.
reaperducer 7y ago
FTA: "the fact that retailers, by law, aren't allowed to search customers' bags." This is a Canadian story. Does anyone know if this is also true elsewhere?
- BrandoElFollito 7y ago
  Same in France. They can stop you awaiting for the police but that's all. I told my children to say "I do not agree for you to touch me, please call the police and my parents immediately, or let me go"
- was_boring 7y ago
  I'm fairly certain that's the case in most of the US. I know when I worked retail (over a decade ago) we were specifically instructed that if someone didn't stop to do nothing. The worst case was to follow them and get a license plate number.
- DanBC 7y ago
  They can't search your bags in England. They can perform a citizen's arrest, but to avoid unlawful arrest it means you have to have committed the offence - strong and reasonable suspicion isn't enough.
- GhostVII 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure they can ask to search your bag, and revoke your membership if you refuse, so I guess you can get away with that once.
- mikeash 7y ago
  In the US, they can ask, but they can’t stop you from walking out the door if you say no.
ghshephard 7y ago
I'm surprised that the basis of this story wasn't mostly focused on the fact that Costco is different than other retailers, in that as part of your membership agreement (anyone who shops at Costco is a member, and, in theory (and usually practice) must provide evidence of their membership before entering), have to agree to allow a bag and receipt search on exit. For normal retailers, no such agreement exists, and in the 20+ years of dealing with them, I've never once stopped at the courtesy check, and never once been called on it.
- insickness 7y ago
  > Vancouver lawyer Kyla Lee says even private clubs that require memberships can't violate a person's rights.
  - koenigdavidmj 7y ago
    No rights are being denied. Even Costco will not detain you or your property. The worst they might do is cancel your membership.
    - oceanghost 7y ago
      I have a personal policy of, "I won't wait more than a moment for the Costco receipt check." I can assure you, they will run after you sometimes and stand in front of your cart to keep you from leaving.
- greedo 7y ago
  Not everyone who shops at Costco is a member. You can shop at their pharmacy without joining.
  - seany 7y ago
    In a lot of locations you can also buy alcohol without a membership.
    - 7y ago
Canada 7y ago
I am fanatically opposed to random, suspicionless searches of personal property, whether psysical items or data. I don't find Costco offensive. They make it clear up front that's how it is and they search everyone rather than discriminating. Also, there are no bags, you take your items out in full view in an open cart, and after you leave you can do as you please. I don't have to shop there. Really, the confirmation of items leaving is just part of the standard checkout process. Superstore has a no bag policy. Their security may stop you and demand you check your bag. They accept no liability for losing it. Due to their lack of offer to accept that liability I've declined to enter their store. I have no problem with it because we both have our own terms and if they aren't mutually acceptable we don't have to do business.
- GhostVII 7y ago
  Do you have to comply if Superstore security asks to check your bag? Seems like the only authority they really have legally is to kick you out of the store, but I don't know that much about the laws surrounding that.
  - sjg007 7y ago
    No
  - Zak 7y ago
    If you want to shop there, yes. They can deny you entry if you want to bring something inside that they don't want in their store.
- clairity 7y ago
  i'm fanatically against the burden of fraud prevention falling on honest people, rather than squarely on the dishonest. companies may want to externalize such costs on customers in the form of privacy invasion and dignity denigration, but as an equal party, the customer can choose to negotiate different terms. and no, small print agreements don't absolve companies of such negotiations, as those are simply risk reduction, not risk absolution, measures by companies. individuals are the atomic units of power, not companies.
techslave 7y ago
not many comments yet, but i suppose people don’t understand the point of the bag search isn’t to reduce customer shoplifting, it’s to prevent employee theft. employees not ringing items is a super trivial way inventory shrinks. it’s sad that the pain is borne by the customer. but, on the bright side, it means prices are lower than they would be otherwise.
- analog31 7y ago
  Indeed. I used to work in a business that was peripherally related to the security industry, and the conventional wisdom was that shoplifting was typically either an inside job, or an inside job with a customer as a confederate. Most of the security products (20+ years ago) were oriented towards monitoring employees, such as a gadget that superimposed the register transactions on the security video tape. That's why big stores have the highest concentration of security cameras above the checkout lanes, exactly where a customer is least likely to try and hide something.
nimbius 7y ago
In the United states this has been an issue at Frys electronics and circuit city, but it really boils down to these two facts: - once you pay, and have a receipt, it is your property. - guards can only do one of two things: 1. wave you by and tell you to have a nice day or 2. Detain you for shoplifting. number 2 gets pretty ugly. If the "loss prevention officer" as theyre called has video evidence of you stealing, or can prove from witness that you are in possession of stolen property, they will detain you in standard police style handcuffs and march you to the office. only the police can legally remove the handcuffs at this point. now, if you havent stolen anything, and you are detained, this is unlawful imprisonment. You hire a lawyer, you go to court, and you count your settlement cash or push the company to do the unthinkable...not issue a public apology, but admit wrongdoing. most companies have shied away from this kind of strongman tactic of inspecting bags for one reason. its not because customers dont like it, its because it can put the business at enormous financial and shareholder risk if it backfires for any reason.
- masonic 7y ago
  Costco, however, is a membership organization, and this is a stated condition in the membership agreement.
  - the_pwner224 7y ago
    You can't use a contract to sign away your right to not be enslaved (with the exception of prisoners). Similarly you can't sign away your right to not be illegally held captive by another person. Of course if you leave without allowing Costco to check your bag, they have every right to cancel the contract which was breached. But if they don't let you leave and handcuff you, you have every right to sue them.
    - threatofrain 7y ago
      This works at the airports; is there legal clarity or consensus on what kinds of rights you can't give away?
wrs 7y ago
The official story is the the cart is compared with the receipt to catch errors more than shoplifting [1]. As far as I can remember ever seeing, Seattle Costcos just look in the cart, they don’t search personal bags. [1] https://www.sfgate.com/living/article/Costco-exit-greeters-check-receipts-door-13405328.php https://www.sfgate.com/living/article/Costco-exit-greeters-c...
joshe 7y ago
For Costco (in the US) and every other store I just walk past the guards. If they say something, I just say "no thanks". I decided I'd be happy to just stand there while they call their manager and then the real police, but I've never had too. IANAL but they can't detain you if they don't see a crime, much like a citizen's arrest. In any case if you are calm and polite the downside isn't that bad for you. My guess is they are just counting on customers trying to be nice. From FindLaw: "Though these laws vary, store owners and their employees generally are allowed to detain an individual when they have probable cause to suspect shoplifting. However, any such detention of a suspected shoplifter must be reasonable in length and manner. Detentions without probable cause, for an unreasonable amount of time, or in an unreasonable manner may leave the store open to liability for false imprisonment and possibly other claims. What constitutes probable cause to suspect shoplifting comes down to case by case specifics. Mere suspicion typically will not suffice. Most states require that the store or its employees have evidence which would lead a reasonable person to believe that shoplifting had occurred or was in progress. If the store bases its detention of a suspected shoplifter on information from a non-employee informer, that informer must have a reasonable basis for suspecting shoplifting." [1] [1] https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/shoplifting.html https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/shoplifting.ht...
- prepend 7y ago
  The risk at Costco isn’t them detaining or calling the police, the risk is revoking your membership.
dano 7y ago
I think the past purchase receipt check isn't about the shopper, it's about the person at the register. It is a check to be sure that, at a cursory level, everything was charged, and also to ensure that you have goods you paid for. In electronics stores this was one method of handling inventory shrinkage on expensive components. Costco has never made me feel as if I did something wrong, and they found that I'd forgotten to pick up something from the cage at the service desk.

25 points by sunkenvicar 7y ago

I’ve always felt like a criminal when I leave Costco. I am forced under threat of membership cancellation to show my receipt, cart contents, and bag contents to an employee.

adrr 7y ago
I am fine with the Costco policy since its in the terms of membership and Costco is a club. If you're random retailer and wanting to search for people who haven't agreed to anything since the store is open to the public, that is a problem.
- arkades 7y ago
  How does this in any way differ from any other retailer, except that Costco adds an admission fee? Waving a magical membership wand over my head doesn’t change any of the material facts.
  - kasey_junk 7y ago
    You literally consented to it in writing when you became a member.
    - insickness 7y ago
      It's arguable whether this is legal even if you signed a contract. There are many legal rights that can't be signed away in a contract (e.g. someone has the right to beat you up, etc.)
      - praneshp 7y ago
        > It's arguable whether this is legal even if you signed a contract If you ever take Costco to court, I'll follow along curiously. In a lawsuit-hungry country like the US, I'm not sure how long a large company like Costco can get away with something illegal in their contract.
      - tedunangst 7y ago
        Signing a contract that says "you can look in my bag" doesn't seem like it would be one of the automatically void unconscionable contracts.
      - adrr 7y ago
        A lot of fulfillment companies search their employees when they leave. Its only time I've seen metal detectors used when leaving a building. On the corporate side, I am required to disclose all my financial dealings including non-public equity deals(stock options in startups I work at) to my wife's work. If I don't, she can get fired.
    - sunkenvicar 7y ago
      No one reads the fine print.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    It’s relevant because that membership, which is the one thing that sets Costco apart, is also their only remedy. They don’t get to chase you down. They don’t get to hold you. They can’t call the police. (Well, they can, but the police won’t give a shit.) All they can do is refuse to let you buy more stuff from them. Everybody gets to do what they want. Costco can ask to check your stuff. You can refuse. Costco can cancel your membership. None of these things are problematic.
jedmeyers 7y ago
There have been stories about Costco exit check not being about theft at all, it’s mostly about checking for possible errors or fraud on the part of the cashier
- tonyarkles 7y ago
  I've had them catch mistakes before, like an item being double-scanned. I was actually pretty impressed that they looked at the total count on the receipt and cross-checked it against the contents of the cart.
- masonic 7y ago
  Back when Costco accepted Discover and allowed cash-over on purchases, when I took cash over, I would be asked by the receipt-checker, "did you get your $30?". On two separate occasions, I had in fact forgotten. One of those, I was given the missing cash immediately without question. The other time, the manager was skeptical but agreed to close and count the drawer, and I received the $30 immediately after that process.
btgeekboy 7y ago
Have they ever actually checked you that closely? Every time I leave Costco, it’s a cursory glance, a swipe of a marker (which prevents receipt reuse), and that’s it.
bigmattystyles 7y ago
Same at Home Depot, the ceaseless beeping informing to the presence of surveillance when any movement is detected is enough to drive you insane. I’m just looking at drill bits for crying out loud! They even have a screen showing you a supposed live feed of the security room where people are presumably supervising the feed from the surveillance camera...
- crankylinuxuser 7y ago
  Worse yet, at our kroger (0), in many higher margin aisles are cameras and lcd screens hanging from the ceilings. They turn on to show the customer that they see us. You could possibly cover your face, but I'm pretty sure store personnel would ask you to leave. My much more sardonic and dark view are that these cameras and the associated "kroger loyalty card" are going to an internal database to show how we travel through the store, what we look at, and how long. Of course, theft is an incidental plus to stop. We already know for quite some time that Target (1) uses your credit card as the user hash, much like a loyalty card. There's no opting out of this one. (0) https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kroger/@39.1636963,-86.5898157,15.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x886c6761e3bba689:0x5a9fe2f9421688b4!8m2!3d39.1626063!4d-86.5805966 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kroger/@39.1636963,-86.589... (1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/#62a21d806668 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ...
  - Stratoscope 7y ago
    > You could possibly cover your face, but I'm pretty sure store personnel would ask you to leave. Now that sounds like fun. Is there a store like this on the San Francisco Peninsula so I can try it and see what happens?
    - crankylinuxuser 7y ago
      Uhh, I have no clue. But I would assume that every major store that has cameras (all!) probably feed their video output to a ML classifier for facial recog and dwell times/locations in aisles. And if I were constructing such a system (I'M NOT!), I'd also tie it to the cash registers for complete path history and item purchase history, whether you use a 'shopper card' or not. The only way I think you would have legal standing with a full shorud over your face is if you're a female Muslim adherent. In that case, I think you'd be defended by the 1st amendment protections. Then again, that also sounds like a 2-5 year legal battle assuming SCOTUS would even get involved. But you being in SF, the 9th circuit would likely go in favor of 1st amendment. Long story short, our freedoms and relative anonymity are probably completely fucked. And those that demand privacy/anonymity are few and far enough between that we would be easily profiled in other ways.

reaperducer 7y ago

Twice I've had a bad experience shopping or at the check-out stand, and decided I'd had enough of a particular store so I just kept walking past the "courtesy" check. Nobody's ever protested or followed me. If they did, I'd tell them that I paid for my stuff and my business with their store is complete. If some day someone presses the point, I hope I'll have the courage to keep on walking and let them try to send the police to my house to enforce some kind of receipt check. I'm sure the police will get right on that.

igetspam 7y ago
I had some kid stop me, after I'd checked out at a Target. He wanted to see my receipt and I asked him why. He couldn't really provide an answer without accusing me of being a thief. I not-so-politely asked him if he was accusing me of something and let him know that of he wasn't, he needed to walk away. My wife was angry, embarrassed and proud. Our daughter was barely a year old, so she won't remember but this is how we'll teach her to always handle situations like this. Don't let people treat you like a criminal.
- lstamour 7y ago
  Best Buy stations people near the exits to check receipts, as does Wal-Mart with greeters, and on busy shopping days Best Buy has been known to post signs saying all receipts will be checked and bags provided at the exits. I don’t see it as that much of an inconvenience to stand in a line with everyone else as the receipt and items are checked one last time. I can’t say it’s effective at catching problems but it probably acts as a good deterrent on a very busy, crowded day... presumably they’re trying to prevent someone from skipping the cash registers on their way out... Canadian Tire, now there’s a terrible shopping experience, security gates make it nearly impossible to leave without buying something and they still check your receipts as you leave.
  - antonvs 7y ago
    > I don’t see it as that much of an inconvenience to stand in a line with everyone else as the receipt and items are checked one last time. It violates your legal rights though.

reaperducer 7y ago

FTA: "the fact that retailers, by law, aren't allowed to search customers' bags." This is a Canadian story. Does anyone know if this is also true elsewhere?

BrandoElFollito 7y ago
Same in France. They can stop you awaiting for the police but that's all. I told my children to say "I do not agree for you to touch me, please call the police and my parents immediately, or let me go"
was_boring 7y ago
I'm fairly certain that's the case in most of the US. I know when I worked retail (over a decade ago) we were specifically instructed that if someone didn't stop to do nothing. The worst case was to follow them and get a license plate number.
DanBC 7y ago
They can't search your bags in England. They can perform a citizen's arrest, but to avoid unlawful arrest it means you have to have committed the offence - strong and reasonable suspicion isn't enough.
GhostVII 7y ago
I'm pretty sure they can ask to search your bag, and revoke your membership if you refuse, so I guess you can get away with that once.
mikeash 7y ago
In the US, they can ask, but they can’t stop you from walking out the door if you say no.

ghshephard 7y ago

I'm surprised that the basis of this story wasn't mostly focused on the fact that Costco is different than other retailers, in that as part of your membership agreement (anyone who shops at Costco is a member, and, in theory (and usually practice) must provide evidence of their membership before entering), have to agree to allow a bag and receipt search on exit. For normal retailers, no such agreement exists, and in the 20+ years of dealing with them, I've never once stopped at the courtesy check, and never once been called on it.

insickness 7y ago
> Vancouver lawyer Kyla Lee says even private clubs that require memberships can't violate a person's rights.
- koenigdavidmj 7y ago
  No rights are being denied. Even Costco will not detain you or your property. The worst they might do is cancel your membership.
  - oceanghost 7y ago
    I have a personal policy of, "I won't wait more than a moment for the Costco receipt check." I can assure you, they will run after you sometimes and stand in front of your cart to keep you from leaving.
greedo 7y ago
Not everyone who shops at Costco is a member. You can shop at their pharmacy without joining.
- seany 7y ago
  In a lot of locations you can also buy alcohol without a membership.
  - 7y ago

Canada 7y ago

I am fanatically opposed to random, suspicionless searches of personal property, whether psysical items or data. I don't find Costco offensive. They make it clear up front that's how it is and they search everyone rather than discriminating. Also, there are no bags, you take your items out in full view in an open cart, and after you leave you can do as you please. I don't have to shop there. Really, the confirmation of items leaving is just part of the standard checkout process. Superstore has a no bag policy. Their security may stop you and demand you check your bag. They accept no liability for losing it. Due to their lack of offer to accept that liability I've declined to enter their store. I have no problem with it because we both have our own terms and if they aren't mutually acceptable we don't have to do business.

GhostVII 7y ago
Do you have to comply if Superstore security asks to check your bag? Seems like the only authority they really have legally is to kick you out of the store, but I don't know that much about the laws surrounding that.
- sjg007 7y ago
  No
- Zak 7y ago
  If you want to shop there, yes. They can deny you entry if you want to bring something inside that they don't want in their store.
clairity 7y ago
i'm fanatically against the burden of fraud prevention falling on honest people, rather than squarely on the dishonest. companies may want to externalize such costs on customers in the form of privacy invasion and dignity denigration, but as an equal party, the customer can choose to negotiate different terms. and no, small print agreements don't absolve companies of such negotiations, as those are simply risk reduction, not risk absolution, measures by companies. individuals are the atomic units of power, not companies.

techslave 7y ago

not many comments yet, but i suppose people don’t understand the point of the bag search isn’t to reduce customer shoplifting, it’s to prevent employee theft. employees not ringing items is a super trivial way inventory shrinks. it’s sad that the pain is borne by the customer. but, on the bright side, it means prices are lower than they would be otherwise.

analog31 7y ago
Indeed. I used to work in a business that was peripherally related to the security industry, and the conventional wisdom was that shoplifting was typically either an inside job, or an inside job with a customer as a confederate. Most of the security products (20+ years ago) were oriented towards monitoring employees, such as a gadget that superimposed the register transactions on the security video tape. That's why big stores have the highest concentration of security cameras above the checkout lanes, exactly where a customer is least likely to try and hide something.

nimbius 7y ago

In the United states this has been an issue at Frys electronics and circuit city, but it really boils down to these two facts: - once you pay, and have a receipt, it is your property. - guards can only do one of two things: 1. wave you by and tell you to have a nice day or 2. Detain you for shoplifting. number 2 gets pretty ugly. If the "loss prevention officer" as theyre called has video evidence of you stealing, or can prove from witness that you are in possession of stolen property, they will detain you in standard police style handcuffs and march you to the office. only the police can legally remove the handcuffs at this point. now, if you havent stolen anything, and you are detained, this is unlawful imprisonment. You hire a lawyer, you go to court, and you count your settlement cash or push the company to do the unthinkable...not issue a public apology, but admit wrongdoing. most companies have shied away from this kind of strongman tactic of inspecting bags for one reason. its not because customers dont like it, its because it can put the business at enormous financial and shareholder risk if it backfires for any reason.

masonic 7y ago
Costco, however, is a membership organization, and this is a stated condition in the membership agreement.
- the_pwner224 7y ago
  You can't use a contract to sign away your right to not be enslaved (with the exception of prisoners). Similarly you can't sign away your right to not be illegally held captive by another person. Of course if you leave without allowing Costco to check your bag, they have every right to cancel the contract which was breached. But if they don't let you leave and handcuff you, you have every right to sue them.
  - threatofrain 7y ago
    This works at the airports; is there legal clarity or consensus on what kinds of rights you can't give away?

wrs 7y ago

The official story is the the cart is compared with the receipt to catch errors more than shoplifting [1]. As far as I can remember ever seeing, Seattle Costcos just look in the cart, they don’t search personal bags. [1] https://www.sfgate.com/living/article/Costco-exit-greeters-check-receipts-door-13405328.php https://www.sfgate.com/living/article/Costco-exit-greeters-c...

joshe 7y ago

For Costco (in the US) and every other store I just walk past the guards. If they say something, I just say "no thanks". I decided I'd be happy to just stand there while they call their manager and then the real police, but I've never had too. IANAL but they can't detain you if they don't see a crime, much like a citizen's arrest. In any case if you are calm and polite the downside isn't that bad for you. My guess is they are just counting on customers trying to be nice. From FindLaw: "Though these laws vary, store owners and their employees generally are allowed to detain an individual when they have probable cause to suspect shoplifting. However, any such detention of a suspected shoplifter must be reasonable in length and manner. Detentions without probable cause, for an unreasonable amount of time, or in an unreasonable manner may leave the store open to liability for false imprisonment and possibly other claims. What constitutes probable cause to suspect shoplifting comes down to case by case specifics. Mere suspicion typically will not suffice. Most states require that the store or its employees have evidence which would lead a reasonable person to believe that shoplifting had occurred or was in progress. If the store bases its detention of a suspected shoplifter on information from a non-employee informer, that informer must have a reasonable basis for suspecting shoplifting." [1] [1] https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/shoplifting.html https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/shoplifting.ht...

prepend 7y ago
The risk at Costco isn’t them detaining or calling the police, the risk is revoking your membership.

dano 7y ago

I think the past purchase receipt check isn't about the shopper, it's about the person at the register. It is a check to be sure that, at a cursory level, everything was charged, and also to ensure that you have goods you paid for. In electronics stores this was one method of handling inventory shrinkage on expensive components. Costco has never made me feel as if I did something wrong, and they found that I'd forgotten to pick up something from the cage at the service desk.