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The locations were pre-selected, and Amazon was just testing the waters to know how much free corporate welfare various government institutions were willing to

The locations were pre-selected, and Amazon was just testing the waters to know how much free corporate welfare various government institutions were willing to give the 18th largest company in America.

AimForTheBushes 7y ago
I think this was absolutely the case. All the cities that bid got played.
rayiner 7y ago
Except the whole article is about how Virginia won despite offering less "corporate welfare" than other places. > All told, Virginia offered Amazon only $550 million in tax breaks and $195 million in transportation improvements. But it pledged to plow $1.1 billion into tech schooling. According to Moret, it was the only place in the nation that made education the centerpiece of its pitch. More than 2/3's of Virginia's investment into Amazon was in education and transit, which benefits everyone. Philly, by contrast, offered $4.6 billion in subsidies, just $100 million for transit, and nothing for education: https://slate.com/technology/2018/11/amazon-hq2-incredible-incentives-losing-cities-offered.html https://slate.com/technology/2018/11/amazon-hq2-incredible-i.... Chicago offered $1.3 billion in tax breaks and $450 million for transit.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  That's missing the point, though. "We're moving to Virginia. Let's see if we can get other cities to bid and see if that improves Virginia's offered incentives." (Plus free business intelligence hand delivered to them, and leverage if they want to put a distribution hub in one of the cities that didn't win. "You were willing to part with billions, you can't spare a couple dozen million in incentives for this warehouse?")
  - legitster 7y ago
    It didn't really seem like that's the case though. Maybe it made Virginia dump more into infrastructure and education? Is that a bad thing?
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      It doesn't have to work for it to be worth trying. Worst case you're at the cost you expected anyways.
      - legitster 7y ago
        I mean, fair. I guess I don't see the harm though. They made 20 cities seem very attractive to other companies. It was a bit showy, but it was nice to see the process in the open as opposed to the normal backrooms these deals happen in.
    - cco 7y ago
      Bezos had a house there, I forget the percentage but distance to a CEO’s house is hugely predictive of new business locations.
- _jal 7y ago
  Corporate welfare comes in more forms than tax rebates. Reconfiguring your educational system to suit the desires of a company also counts, as much as it does when places change their transportation policy to suit a big shop. Or perhaps you'd like to explain how Amazon wants tech schooling for, I dunno, religious reasons?
  - telotortium 7y ago
    Amazon and other FAANGs recruit globally and get the cream of the crop of STEM graduates. Do they really need to build a tech school to train future employees?
- legitster 7y ago
  Wow. That's pretty telling. More telling is that these tax incentives all seem off-the-shelf. Like these cities are crazy inflating the sticker price of their taxes just so they can turn around and boast to businesses about how much they are taking off. Like a cheap salesman.
  - javagram 7y ago
    > More telling is that these tax incentives all seem off-the-shelf. They are. Tax incentives are a common practice. Amazon just made it national news.
- chrshawkes 7y ago
  DC is a tech hub plain and simple... next to only Silicon Valley. It makes perfect sense to me. It's not just Amazon, almost everybody is in the Northern Va area and if they aren't now they seem to be coming every day.
- tvanantwerp 7y ago
  I think Virginia knew it didn't have to compete so hard on tax breaks or investments. NoVa has something that no other region had: The Pentagon. If Amazon wants big fat government contracts, then it's a no-brainer they'd want a presence there. Bezos already owned the Washington Post and a very expensive DC mansion--the region's importance was never uncertain to him.
  - tssva 7y ago
    Amazon already has big fat government contracts, was already in line for more and already had a presence in NoVa.
- SilasX 7y ago
  >More than 2/3's of Virginia's investment into Amazon was in education and transit, which benefits everyone. Ostensibly, yes, but caution is warranted here; let's hope that (as with Oracle sponsorship), that education funding doesn't translate into indoctrination into the sponsor's stack.
dang 7y ago
Please don't post unsubstantive comments like this to HN. Two better options are: (a) make it a good comment by substantiating the accusation, or (b) don't post. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- anth_anm 7y ago
  Unsubstantive == dang don't like it. Worst moderator I've ever seen. Seriously, you are just atrocious.
- deleted 7y ago
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- deleted 7y ago
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- Ill_ban_myself 7y ago
  I'm genuinely curious, "Pure politics: conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, gender, class, and religion that get people hot and turn into flamewars on the internet. We’re not so concerned about stories on other things that happen to have political aspects—like, say, software patents." The comment above seems to be speculation that backroom deals played a part in a major tech news story. Speculation based on expert opinion often seems welcome, but speculation colored by negative experiences with the political jockeying that tech firms often do to accomplish their goals is not welcome. Suppose the user above is a tech CEO with expert experience negotiating land deals with city government. Suppose they're a clerk in city government who often are privy to these deals. I feel like you may be making some broad assumptions of your own about what rises to the level of expert opinion and that's got a noxious effect on conversation here as well.
  - dang 7y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is. If the commenter is an expert on the subject, or has some inside knowledge, making those things clear would be one way of making the comment more substantive. As it stands, it reads as if it has just been made up. I'm assuming that by "the locations were pre-selected" the comment means that the outcome of the process was predetermined. That's a huge claim. Obviously a comment making a wild accusation without providing any basis for it is unsubstantive. It lowers discussion quality noticeably when people sling such charges around. I realize it's a fun thing to do on the internet, but there are other places for it.

AimForTheBushes 7y ago

I think this was absolutely the case. All the cities that bid got played.

rayiner 7y ago

Except the whole article is about how Virginia won despite offering less "corporate welfare" than other places. > All told, Virginia offered Amazon only $550 million in tax breaks and $195 million in transportation improvements. But it pledged to plow $1.1 billion into tech schooling. According to Moret, it was the only place in the nation that made education the centerpiece of its pitch. More than 2/3's of Virginia's investment into Amazon was in education and transit, which benefits everyone. Philly, by contrast, offered $4.6 billion in subsidies, just $100 million for transit, and nothing for education: https://slate.com/technology/2018/11/amazon-hq2-incredible-incentives-losing-cities-offered.html https://slate.com/technology/2018/11/amazon-hq2-incredible-i.... Chicago offered $1.3 billion in tax breaks and $450 million for transit.

ceejayoz 7y ago
That's missing the point, though. "We're moving to Virginia. Let's see if we can get other cities to bid and see if that improves Virginia's offered incentives." (Plus free business intelligence hand delivered to them, and leverage if they want to put a distribution hub in one of the cities that didn't win. "You were willing to part with billions, you can't spare a couple dozen million in incentives for this warehouse?")
- legitster 7y ago
  It didn't really seem like that's the case though. Maybe it made Virginia dump more into infrastructure and education? Is that a bad thing?
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    It doesn't have to work for it to be worth trying. Worst case you're at the cost you expected anyways.
    - legitster 7y ago
      I mean, fair. I guess I don't see the harm though. They made 20 cities seem very attractive to other companies. It was a bit showy, but it was nice to see the process in the open as opposed to the normal backrooms these deals happen in.
  - cco 7y ago
    Bezos had a house there, I forget the percentage but distance to a CEO’s house is hugely predictive of new business locations.
_jal 7y ago
Corporate welfare comes in more forms than tax rebates. Reconfiguring your educational system to suit the desires of a company also counts, as much as it does when places change their transportation policy to suit a big shop. Or perhaps you'd like to explain how Amazon wants tech schooling for, I dunno, religious reasons?
- telotortium 7y ago
  Amazon and other FAANGs recruit globally and get the cream of the crop of STEM graduates. Do they really need to build a tech school to train future employees?
legitster 7y ago
Wow. That's pretty telling. More telling is that these tax incentives all seem off-the-shelf. Like these cities are crazy inflating the sticker price of their taxes just so they can turn around and boast to businesses about how much they are taking off. Like a cheap salesman.
- javagram 7y ago
  > More telling is that these tax incentives all seem off-the-shelf. They are. Tax incentives are a common practice. Amazon just made it national news.
chrshawkes 7y ago
DC is a tech hub plain and simple... next to only Silicon Valley. It makes perfect sense to me. It's not just Amazon, almost everybody is in the Northern Va area and if they aren't now they seem to be coming every day.
tvanantwerp 7y ago
I think Virginia knew it didn't have to compete so hard on tax breaks or investments. NoVa has something that no other region had: The Pentagon. If Amazon wants big fat government contracts, then it's a no-brainer they'd want a presence there. Bezos already owned the Washington Post and a very expensive DC mansion--the region's importance was never uncertain to him.
- tssva 7y ago
  Amazon already has big fat government contracts, was already in line for more and already had a presence in NoVa.
SilasX 7y ago
>More than 2/3's of Virginia's investment into Amazon was in education and transit, which benefits everyone. Ostensibly, yes, but caution is warranted here; let's hope that (as with Oracle sponsorship), that education funding doesn't translate into indoctrination into the sponsor's stack.

dang 7y ago

Please don't post unsubstantive comments like this to HN. Two better options are: (a) make it a good comment by substantiating the accusation, or (b) don't post. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

anth_anm 7y ago
Unsubstantive == dang don't like it. Worst moderator I've ever seen. Seriously, you are just atrocious.
deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago
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Ill_ban_myself 7y ago
I'm genuinely curious, "Pure politics: conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, gender, class, and religion that get people hot and turn into flamewars on the internet. We’re not so concerned about stories on other things that happen to have political aspects—like, say, software patents." The comment above seems to be speculation that backroom deals played a part in a major tech news story. Speculation based on expert opinion often seems welcome, but speculation colored by negative experiences with the political jockeying that tech firms often do to accomplish their goals is not welcome. Suppose the user above is a tech CEO with expert experience negotiating land deals with city government. Suppose they're a clerk in city government who often are privy to these deals. I feel like you may be making some broad assumptions of your own about what rises to the level of expert opinion and that's got a noxious effect on conversation here as well.
- dang 7y ago
  I'm not sure what your point is. If the commenter is an expert on the subject, or has some inside knowledge, making those things clear would be one way of making the comment more substantive. As it stands, it reads as if it has just been made up. I'm assuming that by "the locations were pre-selected" the comment means that the outcome of the process was predetermined. That's a huge claim. Obviously a comment making a wild accusation without providing any basis for it is unsubstantive. It lowers discussion quality noticeably when people sling such charges around. I realize it's a fun thing to do on the internet, but there are other places for it.