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Here's another way Apple may be killing "right to repair": I own a chain of independent cell phone and computer repair shops. Last year, Google unilaterally to

Here's another way Apple may be killing "right to repair": I own a chain of independent cell phone and computer repair shops. Last year, Google unilaterally took away AdWords in our industry. The day after Thanksgiving, we woke up to find none of our ads were running. Google claimed this was because "third-party tech support providers" were scamming customers--i.e. people were buying AdWords for virus removal and tech support queries and then trying to scam people for money. Google also claimed an independent verification service was coming for those of us who had actual physical repair shops and weren't scamming people. Despite Google's promises, none of this has been delivered. Our business has dropped significantly since AdWords disappeared 8 months ago. This Google action has really hurt legitimate small businesses. I write all of this because the prevailing theory in our industry is that this is Apple's way of fighting against right to repair. If only Apple authorized service providers are allowed to advertise on Google for repair-related keywords, Apple will have taken more teeth out of "right to repair." It reminds me of the quote from The Matrix: "Tell me, Mr. Anderson, what good is a phone call when you are unable to speak?" If independent repair shops can't be found on Google, is that Google and Apple's way of muting third-party repair? Right when Google ads disappeared, Amazon and Apple made a deal that meant third parties could no longer sell Apple products on Amazon: https://9to5toys.com/2018/11/09/apple-and-amazon-deal-iphone-ipad/ https://9to5toys.com/2018/11/09/apple-and-amazon-deal-iphone... This is just a reminder that Apple is fighting in every way possible against right to repair.

komali2 7y ago
Welp, there it is. As clear cut a case of the dangers of Google basically holding the keys to the internet for the masses as I've ever seen. How's the ads on Facebook and Instagram doing?
- ericabiz 7y ago
  Awful, honestly. The last set we ran on Facebook cost us $40 per booked appointment...not even break-even for us. We are working on video ads for pre-roll YouTube, etc., but it takes $ for tools (like cameras) and production. On Google, we learned how to optimize our ads and we were doing really well.
  - isolli 7y ago
    Have you tried advertising on DuckDuckGo? There's not as much traffic, but it could be worth it.
    - tsss 7y ago
      How many people do you know who use DuckDuckGo? How many of them would consider a repair shop instead of doing it themselves?
      - adrianN 7y ago
        About as many as I know who would consider repairing their device at all instead of buying a new one.
      - javagram 7y ago
        FWIW, I use DDG, I’d still go to a repair shop rather than try to repair an iPhone personally. I’m perfectly happy building a PC or messing with something that’s meant to be user-serviceable, or even replacing the stereo in my car, but when it comes to small things that are glued together I’d look at a professional. I can’t even manage to get screen protectors to go on perfectly straight in past experience...
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - gabriel-uribe 7y ago
        I also use DDG and would use a shop. I used to even repair iPhones for myself and others, but I just don’t have the tools or expertise these days.
      - mattkevan 7y ago
        I use DDG and would consider going to a repair shop. Used to fix them myself, but stopped around the iPhone 6 era as they became too fiddly to bother. The last straw was when I knackered a motherboard because I mixed up two screws and severed a vital copper trace. So frustrating.
- arkades 7y ago
  A lot of responses along the lines of “and HOW would Apple have done this?” Google pays Apple how much every year to remain their search engine of choice? Their corporate relationship isn’t exactly distant.
- paulddraper 7y ago
  Objectively, Facebook ads have recently gotten _a lot_ worse because they removed most of the targeting abilities. Targeting was always the competitive edge FB had. (Whether this an overall good or bad thing I leave as an exercise to the reader.)
  - chipperyman573 7y ago
    Wait, why? I thought the whole point of facebook being super invasive was so they could use that data for advertisers
toomuchtodo 7y ago
You might want to contact the Justice Department to contribute to their anti trust investigation against Google.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  "Have you considered just phoning up the government?" has got to be the pinnacle of armchair activism.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Having been directly involved contributing towards a government investigation that resulted in the conviction and incarceration of someone for white collar crime, I would disagree with your assessment. Doing something > doing nothing. You have to start somewhere, and a phone call is a fine place to start. "Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand."
    - looeee 7y ago
      How did you get involved with that? Did you just phone up and offer your services?
      - hanniabu 7y ago
        I'd imagine it going something like this: "Hello, I have information that would likely be useful as evidence for the antitrust lawsuit against Google." "Thanks, but I think we have it covered" -or- "Thanks, let me take a note so we both feel good about this interaction and never actually follow up on this."
        Rychard 7y ago
        When one wonders how the status-quo came to be, they need look no further than the dismissive attitudes they wield. When the GP said "Doing something > doing nothing", try to see the value in such a mindset, irrespective of whether or not some action was taken by person on the receiving end of the information. If nobody voices their concerns, the people have no voice.
simonh 7y ago
Google screws you over and you blame Apple. How does that work?
- radcon 7y ago
  She explained that in these two lines: > I write all of this because the prevailing theory in our industry is that this is Apple's way of fighting against right to repair. > If only Apple authorized service providers are allowed to advertise on Google for repair-related keywords, Apple will have taken more teeth out of "right to repair."
  - kbenson 7y ago
    Well, there is the important connection between how Apple was able to get Google to implement a ban on advertising. That was glossed over. I don't think it's impossible, but it's not such an easy leap as to not need any explanation.
  - Zak 7y ago
    That doesn't explain how it's Apple's fault. Google is unlikely to restrict advertising just because it's in Apple's interests. If Google didn't have a reason to do so in its own self-interest, Apple would have to use a threat or a bribe to get Google to reduce its own advertising revenue in this way. The comment provides no evidence of that.
    - 867567838694 7y ago
      You trust google more than I do. I'm sure there was a tit for tat exchange or back room deal if it went down. It wouldn't be the first time for these companies.
      - Zak 7y ago
        I don't trust Google in the sense I think you're implying. I have no trouble believing Google would do something unethical that it believed it would profit from and get away with. That includes back room deals. But the original comment didn't offer any evidence of one. I'd like to know if there is any beyond it being a plausible explanation.
jmull 7y ago
Google locked you out of advertising and that's Apple's fault? I'm not sure you've really got a good grasp of the situation.
phkahler 7y ago
So Google shut down ads for an entire industry because of bad actors? Are the percentages that bad to warrant it? If so, isn't that Google's claim to fame - finding the high value results?
- paulddraper 7y ago
  A few years ago, Amazon shut down anyone selling Chromecast on their store. "Too much fraud" was the reason given.
  - hinkley 7y ago
    They shut down Apple TVs too. No ulterior motives, I’m sure,
bonestamp2 7y ago
Why would Google give up all that ad revenue to help Apple?
- busterarm 7y ago
  Because Google sells phones too. That nearly everyone in this thread has missed this fact so far is baffling.
  - organsnyder 7y ago
    Their ad revenue must be several orders of magnitude higher than their phone sales revenue, though.
    - hutzlibu 7y ago
      But not higher than their repair ad revenue, nor their value in their buisnes relations to apple. But I suspect in this case it is more likely a "don't care" attitude from google to that small market.
    - IX-103 7y ago
      Yeah, I think they've practically been losing money on phones since they started. I mean they're not losing YouTube levels of money, but it's not very profitable. And anyway compared to any search ads everything else is peanuts.
    - busterarm 7y ago
      Controlling what people do with their devices protects their revenue stream. Like on the ads they'll see on their devices. Hey, what big change did Google make to Chrome with regard to Adblockers recently for Enterprise users?
    - abdullahkhalids 7y ago
      You can still spend money/resources/take action to protect one's loss leader's position in the market.
  - 7y ago
hyperbovine 7y ago
> If independent repair shops can't be found on Google, is that Google and Apple's way of muting third-party repair? Disappearing from Adwords is not the same as disappearing from Google.
- judge2020 7y ago
  People can still find the business by searching "<businessname> repair shop" as well as possibly "repair ship <cityname>" but the issue is not being able to advertise on terms like "fix iphone 8" or "ifixit iphone".
  - ddalex 7y ago
    Not to be that guy, but why do you feel you are entitled to advertise on somebody else's trademark?
    - CamperBob2 7y ago
      It's obviously an instance of fair use. Otherwise no indy auto repair shops could advertise, for example. Where the problems come in is when the actual name of the business includes a third party trademark. Try calling your business "Joe's Cut-Rate Porsche Service" and you can expect a C&D order.
      - technothrasher 7y ago
        Yes, you'll likely get a C&D order, however that doesn't mean you'll lose. As an example, Ferrari a few years ago went after all the independent "Joe's Ferrari Service" type places in the US with C&Ds against them using Ferrari's name in their business name. Most of the shops banded together and all sent legal letters telling Ferrari to $%*# off as it was fair use. Ferrari backed off.
        brokenmachine 7y ago
        Good on them. I'd probably be a bit nervous about taking my Ferrari to Joe's Ferrari Service though.
amelius 7y ago
> Google unilaterally took away AdWords in our industry. It's one thing when a government regulates a market, yet another when a company does it ...
nullc 7y ago
Next thing you're going to do is tell us that Apple, Google, Adobe, Intel, Intuit, Pixar, and eBay were making explicit back room deals to rig employee compensation and using the threat of patent litigation to force competition in line, resulting in the transfer of literally tens of billions of dollars of wealth transferred from employees to shareholders, considering the secondary effects of depressed wages industry wide. Give the conspiracy theories a break.
- lioeters 7y ago
  Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
scarface74 7y ago
So Apple is killing the right go repair because of Google’s well known lack of customer service?
mobit 7y ago
Oh hi. I'm an independent IT person in NZ. I've lost pretty much 100% of my new leads thanks to this policy change too. What's crazy is that I have not seen a single mainstream news provider mention that this has happened. I've messaged multiple local news media, and tried to contact absolutely anyone from Google and gotten nothing. I've never been a believer in conspiracy theories, but Google just "turned off" finding independent or small IT companies from their platform in favor of big established players with huge organic results... and nobody gives a shit.

komali2 7y ago

Welp, there it is. As clear cut a case of the dangers of Google basically holding the keys to the internet for the masses as I've ever seen. How's the ads on Facebook and Instagram doing?

ericabiz 7y ago
Awful, honestly. The last set we ran on Facebook cost us $40 per booked appointment...not even break-even for us. We are working on video ads for pre-roll YouTube, etc., but it takes $ for tools (like cameras) and production. On Google, we learned how to optimize our ads and we were doing really well.
- isolli 7y ago
  Have you tried advertising on DuckDuckGo? There's not as much traffic, but it could be worth it.
  - tsss 7y ago
    How many people do you know who use DuckDuckGo? How many of them would consider a repair shop instead of doing it themselves?
    - adrianN 7y ago
      About as many as I know who would consider repairing their device at all instead of buying a new one.
    - javagram 7y ago
      FWIW, I use DDG, I’d still go to a repair shop rather than try to repair an iPhone personally. I’m perfectly happy building a PC or messing with something that’s meant to be user-serviceable, or even replacing the stereo in my car, but when it comes to small things that are glued together I’d look at a professional. I can’t even manage to get screen protectors to go on perfectly straight in past experience...
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - gabriel-uribe 7y ago
      I also use DDG and would use a shop. I used to even repair iPhones for myself and others, but I just don’t have the tools or expertise these days.
    - mattkevan 7y ago
      I use DDG and would consider going to a repair shop. Used to fix them myself, but stopped around the iPhone 6 era as they became too fiddly to bother. The last straw was when I knackered a motherboard because I mixed up two screws and severed a vital copper trace. So frustrating.
arkades 7y ago
A lot of responses along the lines of “and HOW would Apple have done this?” Google pays Apple how much every year to remain their search engine of choice? Their corporate relationship isn’t exactly distant.
paulddraper 7y ago
Objectively, Facebook ads have recently gotten _a lot_ worse because they removed most of the targeting abilities. Targeting was always the competitive edge FB had. (Whether this an overall good or bad thing I leave as an exercise to the reader.)
- chipperyman573 7y ago
  Wait, why? I thought the whole point of facebook being super invasive was so they could use that data for advertisers

toomuchtodo 7y ago

You might want to contact the Justice Department to contribute to their anti trust investigation against Google.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hombre_fatal 7y ago
"Have you considered just phoning up the government?" has got to be the pinnacle of armchair activism.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Having been directly involved contributing towards a government investigation that resulted in the conviction and incarceration of someone for white collar crime, I would disagree with your assessment. Doing something > doing nothing. You have to start somewhere, and a phone call is a fine place to start. "Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand."
  - looeee 7y ago
    How did you get involved with that? Did you just phone up and offer your services?
    - hanniabu 7y ago
      I'd imagine it going something like this: "Hello, I have information that would likely be useful as evidence for the antitrust lawsuit against Google." "Thanks, but I think we have it covered" -or- "Thanks, let me take a note so we both feel good about this interaction and never actually follow up on this."
      - Rychard 7y ago
        When one wonders how the status-quo came to be, they need look no further than the dismissive attitudes they wield. When the GP said "Doing something > doing nothing", try to see the value in such a mindset, irrespective of whether or not some action was taken by person on the receiving end of the information. If nobody voices their concerns, the people have no voice.

simonh 7y ago

Google screws you over and you blame Apple. How does that work?

radcon 7y ago
She explained that in these two lines: > I write all of this because the prevailing theory in our industry is that this is Apple's way of fighting against right to repair. > If only Apple authorized service providers are allowed to advertise on Google for repair-related keywords, Apple will have taken more teeth out of "right to repair."
- kbenson 7y ago
  Well, there is the important connection between how Apple was able to get Google to implement a ban on advertising. That was glossed over. I don't think it's impossible, but it's not such an easy leap as to not need any explanation.
- Zak 7y ago
  That doesn't explain how it's Apple's fault. Google is unlikely to restrict advertising just because it's in Apple's interests. If Google didn't have a reason to do so in its own self-interest, Apple would have to use a threat or a bribe to get Google to reduce its own advertising revenue in this way. The comment provides no evidence of that.
  - 867567838694 7y ago
    You trust google more than I do. I'm sure there was a tit for tat exchange or back room deal if it went down. It wouldn't be the first time for these companies.
    - Zak 7y ago
      I don't trust Google in the sense I think you're implying. I have no trouble believing Google would do something unethical that it believed it would profit from and get away with. That includes back room deals. But the original comment didn't offer any evidence of one. I'd like to know if there is any beyond it being a plausible explanation.

jmull 7y ago

Google locked you out of advertising and that's Apple's fault? I'm not sure you've really got a good grasp of the situation.

phkahler 7y ago

So Google shut down ads for an entire industry because of bad actors? Are the percentages that bad to warrant it? If so, isn't that Google's claim to fame - finding the high value results?

paulddraper 7y ago
A few years ago, Amazon shut down anyone selling Chromecast on their store. "Too much fraud" was the reason given.
- hinkley 7y ago
  They shut down Apple TVs too. No ulterior motives, I’m sure,

bonestamp2 7y ago

Why would Google give up all that ad revenue to help Apple?

busterarm 7y ago
Because Google sells phones too. That nearly everyone in this thread has missed this fact so far is baffling.
- organsnyder 7y ago
  Their ad revenue must be several orders of magnitude higher than their phone sales revenue, though.
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    But not higher than their repair ad revenue, nor their value in their buisnes relations to apple. But I suspect in this case it is more likely a "don't care" attitude from google to that small market.
  - IX-103 7y ago
    Yeah, I think they've practically been losing money on phones since they started. I mean they're not losing YouTube levels of money, but it's not very profitable. And anyway compared to any search ads everything else is peanuts.
  - busterarm 7y ago
    Controlling what people do with their devices protects their revenue stream. Like on the ads they'll see on their devices. Hey, what big change did Google make to Chrome with regard to Adblockers recently for Enterprise users?
  - abdullahkhalids 7y ago
    You can still spend money/resources/take action to protect one's loss leader's position in the market.
- 7y ago

hyperbovine 7y ago

> If independent repair shops can't be found on Google, is that Google and Apple's way of muting third-party repair? Disappearing from Adwords is not the same as disappearing from Google.

judge2020 7y ago
People can still find the business by searching "<businessname> repair shop" as well as possibly "repair ship <cityname>" but the issue is not being able to advertise on terms like "fix iphone 8" or "ifixit iphone".
- ddalex 7y ago
  Not to be that guy, but why do you feel you are entitled to advertise on somebody else's trademark?
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    It's obviously an instance of fair use. Otherwise no indy auto repair shops could advertise, for example. Where the problems come in is when the actual name of the business includes a third party trademark. Try calling your business "Joe's Cut-Rate Porsche Service" and you can expect a C&D order.
    - technothrasher 7y ago
      Yes, you'll likely get a C&D order, however that doesn't mean you'll lose. As an example, Ferrari a few years ago went after all the independent "Joe's Ferrari Service" type places in the US with C&Ds against them using Ferrari's name in their business name. Most of the shops banded together and all sent legal letters telling Ferrari to $%*# off as it was fair use. Ferrari backed off.
      - brokenmachine 7y ago
        Good on them. I'd probably be a bit nervous about taking my Ferrari to Joe's Ferrari Service though.

amelius 7y ago

> Google unilaterally took away AdWords in our industry. It's one thing when a government regulates a market, yet another when a company does it ...

nullc 7y ago

Next thing you're going to do is tell us that Apple, Google, Adobe, Intel, Intuit, Pixar, and eBay were making explicit back room deals to rig employee compensation and using the threat of patent litigation to force competition in line, resulting in the transfer of literally tens of billions of dollars of wealth transferred from employees to shareholders, considering the secondary effects of depressed wages industry wide. Give the conspiracy theories a break.

lioeters 7y ago
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

scarface74 7y ago

So Apple is killing the right go repair because of Google’s well known lack of customer service?

mobit 7y ago

Oh hi. I'm an independent IT person in NZ. I've lost pretty much 100% of my new leads thanks to this policy change too. What's crazy is that I have not seen a single mainstream news provider mention that this has happened. I've messaged multiple local news media, and tried to contact absolutely anyone from Google and gotten nothing. I've never been a believer in conspiracy theories, but Google just "turned off" finding independent or small IT companies from their platform in favor of big established players with huge organic results... and nobody gives a shit.