4 ms·

It would help if the U.S. had a leg to stand on; the official numbers point to us having higher incarceration per capita; and both the public perception and med

It would help if the U.S. had a leg to stand on; the official numbers point to us having higher incarceration per capita; and both the public perception and medical statistics point to rape being expected in prison.

shrimp_emoji 7y ago
The state massively rounding up religious minorities and harvesting the organs of its prison population is practically the same thing as being incarcerated in a non-restorative justice system with shitty incentives where prisoners assault each other. Btw, judging Nazi Germany for the Holocaust while celebrating Columbus Day? You don't know how bad you look right now. XDD
wavefunction 7y ago
Many of the people in US prisons belong there. The same can't be said of the inhabitants of Xinjiang concentration camps.
- smileysteve 7y ago
  > Many of the people in US prisons belong there. Legally, do they belong there, "many" of them have been sentenced by a jury or judge; though often not with a jury thanks to aggressive plea bargaining. Do the prisons also have a legal obligation to protect prisoners from undue harm like rape? But it also points to issues in our legal system. When the per capita number of warrants in Ferguson is > 1.5. When 3 strike laws and mandatory minimums lead to life in prison for non-violent offenders. But also, if 4% of death row inmates are innocent; do we suppose that number is higher or lower for lesser sentences? for those that took plea deals? For those where the police have been corrupt. https://www.newsweek.com/one-25-executed-us-innocent-study-claims-248889 https://www.newsweek.com/one-25-executed-us-innocent-study-c...
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    I've done over 10 years in state and federal prisons. Reading your extensive comments on prison conditions in this forum for US Steel idling their plants has me wondering if you are an activist for prison reform or an ex-con with an axe to grind.
chr1 7y ago
After reading the linked article i don't think the two are anything comparable. Too little food, cramped cells, people taking turns to sleep, not being allowed to talk with each other, being led to toilet at the set time with whole cell, injections that cause depression and chemical castration, being forced to call to wife and tell that you have a new family and won't be coming back, rape (though only for those whom guards like)... Of course number of prisoners in USA is larger than it should be and they need better protection (mainly from other prisoners), but it is not in a same class as this reeducation camps.
- smileysteve 7y ago
  You couldn't have made a better list of recent issues that have been in the news about U.S. prisons if you had tried. Little and low quality food so that sheriffs could take the money https://www.al.com/opinion/2018/03/49_alabama_sheriffs_flout_open.html https://www.al.com/opinion/2018/03/49_alabama_sheriffs_flout... Widespread prison rape https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/12/15/us-federal-statistics-show-widespread-prison-rape https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/12/15/us-federal-statistics-sh... Prisons under staffed and over crowded https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2017-07-26/understaffed-and-overcrowded-state-prisons-crippled-by-budget-constraints-bad-leadership https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2017-07-26/... Widespread use of solitary confinement https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2019/04/20/solitary-confinement-in-u-s-prisons-qualifies-today-as-torture/ https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2019/04/20/solitary-co... Chemical Castration in at least 8 states https://www.foxnews.com/politics/alabama-passes-bill-requiring-chemical-castration-for-certain-child-molesters https://www.foxnews.com/politics/alabama-passes-bill-requiri...
  - nightwing 7y ago
    I don't understand why some people in US so desperately want to claim the first place in human right violations. Do you believe "Chemical castration for certain child molesters" is comparable to mass injections of huge number of people whose only guilt is having whatsapp on the phone, or not speaking Chinese, or having a beard, or not drinking alcohol? Is low quality food comparable with getting small piece of rice dough the whole day? The way US treated prisoners in Guantanamo is probably comparable to the situation in china, but normal prison are not. I think it is important to keep the sense of proportion, things can be bad and require urgent action without being the worst. And saying things like: Trump is Hitler or human right violations in US are comparable to China do not help anyone. It just downplays the seriousness of the worst case and make the bad case look good.
beart 7y ago
Can official numbers out of China be trusted? Do they consider their 'reeducation camps' to hold prisoners?
- smileysteve 7y ago
  > Can official numbers out of China be trusted? No; which is why I phrased it the way I did. This doesn't change the perception though because the U.S. stands out in the developed world of numbers we can trust.
b_tterc_p 7y ago
I’m pretty sure prison rape rates are more around 15% in the us

shrimp_emoji 7y ago

The state massively rounding up religious minorities and harvesting the organs of its prison population is practically the same thing as being incarcerated in a non-restorative justice system with shitty incentives where prisoners assault each other. Btw, judging Nazi Germany for the Holocaust while celebrating Columbus Day? You don't know how bad you look right now. XDD

wavefunction 7y ago

Many of the people in US prisons belong there. The same can't be said of the inhabitants of Xinjiang concentration camps.

smileysteve 7y ago
> Many of the people in US prisons belong there. Legally, do they belong there, "many" of them have been sentenced by a jury or judge; though often not with a jury thanks to aggressive plea bargaining. Do the prisons also have a legal obligation to protect prisoners from undue harm like rape? But it also points to issues in our legal system. When the per capita number of warrants in Ferguson is > 1.5. When 3 strike laws and mandatory minimums lead to life in prison for non-violent offenders. But also, if 4% of death row inmates are innocent; do we suppose that number is higher or lower for lesser sentences? for those that took plea deals? For those where the police have been corrupt. https://www.newsweek.com/one-25-executed-us-innocent-study-claims-248889 https://www.newsweek.com/one-25-executed-us-innocent-study-c...
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  I've done over 10 years in state and federal prisons. Reading your extensive comments on prison conditions in this forum for US Steel idling their plants has me wondering if you are an activist for prison reform or an ex-con with an axe to grind.

chr1 7y ago

After reading the linked article i don't think the two are anything comparable. Too little food, cramped cells, people taking turns to sleep, not being allowed to talk with each other, being led to toilet at the set time with whole cell, injections that cause depression and chemical castration, being forced to call to wife and tell that you have a new family and won't be coming back, rape (though only for those whom guards like)... Of course number of prisoners in USA is larger than it should be and they need better protection (mainly from other prisoners), but it is not in a same class as this reeducation camps.

smileysteve 7y ago
You couldn't have made a better list of recent issues that have been in the news about U.S. prisons if you had tried. Little and low quality food so that sheriffs could take the money https://www.al.com/opinion/2018/03/49_alabama_sheriffs_flout_open.html https://www.al.com/opinion/2018/03/49_alabama_sheriffs_flout... Widespread prison rape https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/12/15/us-federal-statistics-show-widespread-prison-rape https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/12/15/us-federal-statistics-sh... Prisons under staffed and over crowded https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2017-07-26/understaffed-and-overcrowded-state-prisons-crippled-by-budget-constraints-bad-leadership https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2017-07-26/... Widespread use of solitary confinement https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2019/04/20/solitary-confinement-in-u-s-prisons-qualifies-today-as-torture/ https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2019/04/20/solitary-co... Chemical Castration in at least 8 states https://www.foxnews.com/politics/alabama-passes-bill-requiring-chemical-castration-for-certain-child-molesters https://www.foxnews.com/politics/alabama-passes-bill-requiri...
- nightwing 7y ago
  I don't understand why some people in US so desperately want to claim the first place in human right violations. Do you believe "Chemical castration for certain child molesters" is comparable to mass injections of huge number of people whose only guilt is having whatsapp on the phone, or not speaking Chinese, or having a beard, or not drinking alcohol? Is low quality food comparable with getting small piece of rice dough the whole day? The way US treated prisoners in Guantanamo is probably comparable to the situation in china, but normal prison are not. I think it is important to keep the sense of proportion, things can be bad and require urgent action without being the worst. And saying things like: Trump is Hitler or human right violations in US are comparable to China do not help anyone. It just downplays the seriousness of the worst case and make the bad case look good.

beart 7y ago

Can official numbers out of China be trusted? Do they consider their 'reeducation camps' to hold prisoners?

smileysteve 7y ago
> Can official numbers out of China be trusted? No; which is why I phrased it the way I did. This doesn't change the perception though because the U.S. stands out in the developed world of numbers we can trust.

b_tterc_p 7y ago

I’m pretty sure prison rape rates are more around 15% in the us