4 ms·

Imo, the second book was exceptional and as a standalone, one of the best sci-fi books of the past decade.

by mido22 7y ago

anon46121 7y ago
Not bad. The series reminded me of 1940's-50's sci-fi from the US, for a couple of reasons: A large confidence in the industrial and scientific capacity of their country. Relatively uncritical acceptance that their country is the good guys. No consequential female characters.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  No consequential female characters? I don’t know what series you read, but it was not the same one. Almost half the cast is female. Do you mean something different?
  - jrimbault 7y ago
    Cheng Xin, compared to Luo Ji, has next to zero initiative and is a paper thin character which seems to only be there to metaphorically scream "woman are weak and bad for civilization". The whole section of the book/civilization where everyone is feminized and most of the toxic male behaviors have been repressed is depicted as a "bad thing" leading to weak people and a weak civilization. The first book was decent, certainly good, science fiction, with an endearing new scooby mystery at every chapter leading into another mystery. But the other two were bad. Going on in bad tolkien-ism (I've beared reading the Silmarillion three times) with overlong descriptions of unimportant details and derailing into ideology every two paragraphs.
    - v-yadli 7y ago
      Mind you, weak && bad does not imply inconsequence. Try to put the PC for our time aside, and think about this again. In the cold and cruel universe, what would survive? Advance, advance at all costs. Edit: You don’t have to save the universe in bold to become a character. Being paper thin and then destroy the 3 dimensional universe, on behalf of the will of mankind?
      - jrimbault 7y ago
        She lets it end. No one apart from the mysterious (urg) race of aliens is trying to destroy the universe by collapsing it, they might as well be nothing, and story telling wise they're just a natural disaster without agency. She just stays in her dimensional safe box and doesn't take action. Her only actions are choosing to let things happen, but she's never the one putting them in action. Also, the goal isn't/shouldn't be growth at all cost in a story. The axiom of Liu Cixin is his theory of "The Dark Forest", which is what it is, a literary axiom, not an universal truth.
        v-yadli 7y ago
        to clarify, "advance" in "forward", not to develop or grow ------------- Chen Xin is selected to represent the will of the mankind (or she would've been purged quickly after showing the inabilities) so the character should be thin in this sense, which reflects the very opposite character, `Thomas Wade`. So I understand the story as, that humanity chose to destroy itself in honor of what they value.
    - simion314 7y ago
      >Cheng Xin, compared to Luo Ji, has next to zero initiative and is a paper thin character which seems to only be there to metaphorically scream "woman are weak and bad for civilization". I interpreted it differently, the fact that some male characters can be less empathetic and could potentially solve some crisis does not mean that all men or all women are X, I am bad with names so I don't remember them, but in the end why did the man let her take the final decision about the secret project/attack ? (it seemed out of character or a way to place the hard decision on other IMO)
      - jrimbault 7y ago
        Thomas Wade, her ex-boss, the man of cold hard decisions, a stereotype in its own right. One of the most out of character decisions event in the books. As with any "out of character action" a character can take, the blame lies in the author. Like in the question "who would win between Superman and Goku ?" the answer is in the author, not the characters. The author forced a narrative to prove the point that Cheng Xin wasn't able to do the hard choices.
- anon46121 7y ago
  Just my impression from my reading. Now I think of it I can recall three female characters from the first book. The only one who I would consider consequential was a scientist who survived the cultural revolution and lead a campaign to destroy humanity because of her horrible experiences then (didn't think she had a believable motivation). Her mother who basically sold out her father and her family to stay on the good side of the cultural revolution. The last one was a love interest of the main character who was defined by her physical characteristics (they actually found a woman who matched his perfect dream partner). I can't recall any new female characters from the 2nd book, and I am only reading the third book now. All the other scientists, politicians, police officers, conspirators etc... that I can recall were male. I didn't have a problem with this. It just reminded me of something like the lensmen series. It probably reflects a society where it is common for women to be home makers and the men to pursue careers. Edit: In reply to Aeolun (couldn't see a reply button below your post):
- jcelerier 7y ago
  > No consequential female characters. ehhh, Ye Wenjie is fairly central in the first book (I'm halfway past the second one)
  - sfifs 7y ago
    And the two lead characters in the third one are also women
- pjc50 7y ago
  > Relatively uncritical acceptance that their country is the good guys Were we reading the same books? With all the Cultural Revolution trauma in Three Body Problem? That is the only one of the three I've read, but to me a huge theme was information control. The cultural revolution as the historical event, and the single-particle invasion fleet interfering with humanity's science as the futuristic event. Both analogies for each other. And the ambivalent question underlying it of "what if this is necessary for survival"?
brutherford 7y ago
I actually just finished the trilogy on the weekend and couldn't agree with you more. Enjoyed reading all three but found the first a little slow and the third a bit all over the place. The second book in my opinion was an exceptional masterpiece. The author is truly a creative genius - only wish I could have read the original Chinese versions to see what was lost in translation.
rishav_sharan 7y ago
Same for me. 1st and 3rd were good. But the 2nd one is one of my all time favorites
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Just to set an alternative point of view, I thought the first had some very interesting ideas but was roughly written with weak characterisation. OK, it's a first novel and a translation, so let's see how the series and author progresses... The second on the other hand, had no idea where it was going, no characterisation at all - or terribly cliched attempts, and one of the worst books I've read. I honestly couldn't see the appeal that so many seem to see. I didn't bother with the third!
- sovande 7y ago
  The second book introduce the "The Dark Forest Theory". By that alone it is worth reading. This take on the Fermi Paradox and how it is weaved into the plot is very well done. The second book is also interesting from a SF perspective, describing the treat against earth and the phases and solutions earth goes through. The parallel development of the protagonist Luo Ji is also interesting with a satisfactory and clever conclusion.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    I know what it tries to do. I know he's popular - I expect this comment won't be! :D Like I said for the first, I thought the writing quite rough, but overall the book and plot carried it along to the end easily enough - I enjoyed it despite its obvious flaws and weak characters. I was looking forward to a second book of an author getting into his stride... I was very disappointed. The whole of the first half of the book is a clumsy to the point it feels like an entirely different author. Nothing happens and it goes quite literally nowhere. How much is the different translator? I have no idea. The protagonist has no idea why he's selected, isn't interested, can't be bothered and sort of blunders through the book. For some unknown reason the aliens really need to kill this clueless annoying asshole. Whatever happens, somehow he's still the most important dude on the planet, so he gets to keep blundering on, and keep being an asshole. That is entirely how I felt about the writing too: no idea why he's selected, isn't interested, can't be bothered and sort of blunders through the book where nothing happens. Somewhere on the entire planet is his perfect woman - so he gives his assistant some cliche teen shopping list - did the author just watch the film Weird Science that day? Except it's Weird Science without the humour. What the hell is all this bullshit for? All so the UN can kidnap her to persuade him to work? ROFL. OK, at this point I want the aliens to win - if this is the best guy humans have, we deserve to be alien lunch, and soon! It's all so ridiculously stupid that it's easily the most memorable part of the book. The writing has descended to school essay standard now. Then the whole of the wallfacing idea mostly doesn't work - it's clumsy and shows the gaping holes constantly, sometimes with a few bits of hand waving to try and carry it. Then finally, when I'm about to put the book in the compost, there's an all too brief section of decent and compelling story telling. Except I'd mostly lost interest at this point. That quarter or third of the book could have been a decent basis for all of it. Lose well over half a book and the plot wouldn't change! Then the clumsy utterly unbelievable ending. Yeah right. Overall? 2/10 Don't care what happens in 3. Unlikely to read another by him.
hutattedonmyarm 7y ago
I just started listening to the audiobook a couple days ago!
raverbashing 7y ago
Yeah I found the second one to be the "most boring" of the three. Maybe it could be a translator issue, where one writes in a more fluid way and the other in a more literal sense?

Imo, the second book was exceptional and as a standalone, one of the best sci-fi books of the past decade.

by mido22 7y ago

Imo, the second book was exceptional and as a standalone, one of the best sci-fi books of the past decade.

Not bad. The series reminded me of 1940's-50's sci-fi from the US, for a couple of reasons: A large confidence in the industrial and scientific capacity of their country. Relatively uncritical acceptance that their country is the good guys. No consequential female characters.

Aeolun 7y ago
No consequential female characters? I don’t know what series you read, but it was not the same one. Almost half the cast is female. Do you mean something different?
- jrimbault 7y ago
  Cheng Xin, compared to Luo Ji, has next to zero initiative and is a paper thin character which seems to only be there to metaphorically scream "woman are weak and bad for civilization". The whole section of the book/civilization where everyone is feminized and most of the toxic male behaviors have been repressed is depicted as a "bad thing" leading to weak people and a weak civilization. The first book was decent, certainly good, science fiction, with an endearing new scooby mystery at every chapter leading into another mystery. But the other two were bad. Going on in bad tolkien-ism (I've beared reading the Silmarillion three times) with overlong descriptions of unimportant details and derailing into ideology every two paragraphs.
  - v-yadli 7y ago
    Mind you, weak && bad does not imply inconsequence. Try to put the PC for our time aside, and think about this again. In the cold and cruel universe, what would survive? Advance, advance at all costs. Edit: You don’t have to save the universe in bold to become a character. Being paper thin and then destroy the 3 dimensional universe, on behalf of the will of mankind?
    - jrimbault 7y ago
      She lets it end. No one apart from the mysterious (urg) race of aliens is trying to destroy the universe by collapsing it, they might as well be nothing, and story telling wise they're just a natural disaster without agency. She just stays in her dimensional safe box and doesn't take action. Her only actions are choosing to let things happen, but she's never the one putting them in action. Also, the goal isn't/shouldn't be growth at all cost in a story. The axiom of Liu Cixin is his theory of "The Dark Forest", which is what it is, a literary axiom, not an universal truth.
      - v-yadli 7y ago
        to clarify, "advance" in "forward", not to develop or grow ------------- Chen Xin is selected to represent the will of the mankind (or she would've been purged quickly after showing the inabilities) so the character should be thin in this sense, which reflects the very opposite character, `Thomas Wade`. So I understand the story as, that humanity chose to destroy itself in honor of what they value.
  - simion314 7y ago
    >Cheng Xin, compared to Luo Ji, has next to zero initiative and is a paper thin character which seems to only be there to metaphorically scream "woman are weak and bad for civilization". I interpreted it differently, the fact that some male characters can be less empathetic and could potentially solve some crisis does not mean that all men or all women are X, I am bad with names so I don't remember them, but in the end why did the man let her take the final decision about the secret project/attack ? (it seemed out of character or a way to place the hard decision on other IMO)
    - jrimbault 7y ago
      Thomas Wade, her ex-boss, the man of cold hard decisions, a stereotype in its own right. One of the most out of character decisions event in the books. As with any "out of character action" a character can take, the blame lies in the author. Like in the question "who would win between Superman and Goku ?" the answer is in the author, not the characters. The author forced a narrative to prove the point that Cheng Xin wasn't able to do the hard choices.
anon46121 7y ago
Just my impression from my reading. Now I think of it I can recall three female characters from the first book. The only one who I would consider consequential was a scientist who survived the cultural revolution and lead a campaign to destroy humanity because of her horrible experiences then (didn't think she had a believable motivation). Her mother who basically sold out her father and her family to stay on the good side of the cultural revolution. The last one was a love interest of the main character who was defined by her physical characteristics (they actually found a woman who matched his perfect dream partner). I can't recall any new female characters from the 2nd book, and I am only reading the third book now. All the other scientists, politicians, police officers, conspirators etc... that I can recall were male. I didn't have a problem with this. It just reminded me of something like the lensmen series. It probably reflects a society where it is common for women to be home makers and the men to pursue careers. Edit: In reply to Aeolun (couldn't see a reply button below your post):
jcelerier 7y ago
> No consequential female characters. ehhh, Ye Wenjie is fairly central in the first book (I'm halfway past the second one)
- sfifs 7y ago
  And the two lead characters in the third one are also women
pjc50 7y ago
> Relatively uncritical acceptance that their country is the good guys Were we reading the same books? With all the Cultural Revolution trauma in Three Body Problem? That is the only one of the three I've read, but to me a huge theme was information control. The cultural revolution as the historical event, and the single-particle invasion fleet interfering with humanity's science as the futuristic event. Both analogies for each other. And the ambivalent question underlying it of "what if this is necessary for survival"?

brutherford 7y ago

I actually just finished the trilogy on the weekend and couldn't agree with you more. Enjoyed reading all three but found the first a little slow and the third a bit all over the place. The second book in my opinion was an exceptional masterpiece. The author is truly a creative genius - only wish I could have read the original Chinese versions to see what was lost in translation.

rishav_sharan 7y ago

Same for me. 1st and 3rd were good. But the 2nd one is one of my all time favorites

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Just to set an alternative point of view, I thought the first had some very interesting ideas but was roughly written with weak characterisation. OK, it's a first novel and a translation, so let's see how the series and author progresses... The second on the other hand, had no idea where it was going, no characterisation at all - or terribly cliched attempts, and one of the worst books I've read. I honestly couldn't see the appeal that so many seem to see. I didn't bother with the third!

sovande 7y ago
The second book introduce the "The Dark Forest Theory". By that alone it is worth reading. This take on the Fermi Paradox and how it is weaved into the plot is very well done. The second book is also interesting from a SF perspective, describing the treat against earth and the phases and solutions earth goes through. The parallel development of the protagonist Luo Ji is also interesting with a satisfactory and clever conclusion.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  I know what it tries to do. I know he's popular - I expect this comment won't be! :D Like I said for the first, I thought the writing quite rough, but overall the book and plot carried it along to the end easily enough - I enjoyed it despite its obvious flaws and weak characters. I was looking forward to a second book of an author getting into his stride... I was very disappointed. The whole of the first half of the book is a clumsy to the point it feels like an entirely different author. Nothing happens and it goes quite literally nowhere. How much is the different translator? I have no idea. The protagonist has no idea why he's selected, isn't interested, can't be bothered and sort of blunders through the book. For some unknown reason the aliens really need to kill this clueless annoying asshole. Whatever happens, somehow he's still the most important dude on the planet, so he gets to keep blundering on, and keep being an asshole. That is entirely how I felt about the writing too: no idea why he's selected, isn't interested, can't be bothered and sort of blunders through the book where nothing happens. Somewhere on the entire planet is his perfect woman - so he gives his assistant some cliche teen shopping list - did the author just watch the film Weird Science that day? Except it's Weird Science without the humour. What the hell is all this bullshit for? All so the UN can kidnap her to persuade him to work? ROFL. OK, at this point I want the aliens to win - if this is the best guy humans have, we deserve to be alien lunch, and soon! It's all so ridiculously stupid that it's easily the most memorable part of the book. The writing has descended to school essay standard now. Then the whole of the wallfacing idea mostly doesn't work - it's clumsy and shows the gaping holes constantly, sometimes with a few bits of hand waving to try and carry it. Then finally, when I'm about to put the book in the compost, there's an all too brief section of decent and compelling story telling. Except I'd mostly lost interest at this point. That quarter or third of the book could have been a decent basis for all of it. Lose well over half a book and the plot wouldn't change! Then the clumsy utterly unbelievable ending. Yeah right. Overall? 2/10 Don't care what happens in 3. Unlikely to read another by him.

hutattedonmyarm 7y ago

I just started listening to the audiobook a couple days ago!

raverbashing 7y ago

Yeah I found the second one to be the "most boring" of the three. Maybe it could be a translator issue, where one writes in a more fluid way and the other in a more literal sense?