4 ms·

Aaron Swartz explains why he left reddit

44 points by Sam_Odio 19y ago

Sam_Odio 19y ago
From Aaron's blog: I say a bunch of things in the interview that are probably going to upset various people I know. In my defense, it was an interview -- I didn't rehearse my remarks in advance I'm guessing two of those people are the founders of reddit. I don't think they saw things from quite the same perspective. Edit: there's more discussion about this on reddit - http://reddit.com/info/1octb/comments http://reddit.com/info/1octb/comments
- scrob 19y ago
- scrob2 19y ago
schoudha 19y ago
Was Aaron Swartz a founder of Reddit? I thought he joined Steve and Alexis after Infogami didn't work out. Either way, he's a great hacker and that was great candid interview.
- Sam_Odio 19y ago
  He was not a founder. When the infogami team didn't work out, Aaron, Steve, & Alexis "merged" inforgami w/ reddit, creating a new company - not a bug. They all got an equal share of equity in this new company. I think that's what several people find aggravating. Aaron got a huge amount of reddit's equity, but only put in a few month's worth of work into the site. The lesson - always vest your equity. Not only for new hires, but also set up vesting schedules for the founders. This ensures everyone can make a fair exit, with no hard feelings. EDIT: To clarify, by "not a founder" - I was answering the question, "was he a founder of reddit?" He did, of course, co-found not a bug. Here's their website, for the curious: http://notabug.com/ http://notabug.com/ - I believe it's now defunct. EDIT 2: There's also a pretty good thread on reddit that explains the background: http://reddit.com/info/1octb/comments/c1odac http://reddit.com/info/1octb/comments/c1odac (for those of you who don't know, spez is Steve's alias).
  - startupper 19y ago
    It depends what your definition of a "founder" is... http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=20187 http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=20187
  - bootload 19y ago
    '... I think that's what several people find aggravating. Aaron got a huge amount of reddit's equity, but only put in a few month's worth of work into the site. ...' equity, worth and time working are all mixed up if you are a founder. The original idea, the re-write, the bug fixing and all the crappy small things right up to the final sale mean at any one time each founder out-contributed one another at some stage. It's the final result that counts the most. If he wasn't pulling his weight I'm pretty sure the others would have kicked up a stink and given him the boot. '... always vest your equity. Not only for new hires, but also set up vesting schedules for the founders. This ensures everyone can make a fair exit, with no hard feelings. ...' This I would agree with. Things don't always go to plan though and people may not like their new role, being told what to do, when. You know the drill. To me the biggest mistake by Naste` is assuming just because you buy a company out that all founders are equally as flexible. The biggest impression I get with Aaron is people look at him, they see a kid and skip the ability, intelligence, achievement and ideas bit. "Heh" I joked. "I bet the first time my boss finds out where I am is when he sees my photo on the front page of his own website (Wired)" I cracked up reading this line because of the irony of it.
    - Sam_Odio 19y ago
      It's the final result that counts the most. If he wasn't pulling his weight I'm pretty sure the others would have kicked up a stink and given him the boot. I actually talked with Steve about this exact topic a few months ago. The point he made was, in general, if you give a partner all the equity up front, kicking him out later doesn't make sense. Even if he's extremely unproductive, your only choice is to try to work things out. Otherwise, he's just walking away with a huge chunk of the company.
      - bootload 19y ago
- pg 19y ago
  The company Conde Nast bought was a merger of the startups that made Reddit and Infogami, so the founders of all of them were legally founders of the combined company. Reddit ended up being better known than Infogami, so people thought of the company as Reddit. Actually I think its name was NotaBug.
  - byrneseyeview 19y ago
    http://notabug.com/ http://notabug.com/ According to the site, he's still part of the team. Was Notabug what Conde Nast actually bought? Do they own Infogami, too?
    - pg 19y ago
      Yes, CN bought NotaBug. I'm not 100% sure if they own Infogami, though; there might have been some deal where Aaron got to keep and/or open-source it.
      - abstractbill 19y ago
        The footer of the front page of infogami currently says "(c) 2007 CondeNet, Inc. All rights reserved." so I'd guess they own it.
- keven 19y ago
  From interview with Alexis: "Paul wanted to give Aaron Swartz, another YC founder, a birthday gift in November. More than anything else, Aaron wanted co-founder so Paul suggested the 'merger'. Merger is probably a bit hyperbolic for what actually happened, Aaron basically moved in with us and we made him a co-founder." http://startupstories.com/2006/11/29/passion-for-your-users-will-come-back-alexis-ohanian-co-founder-of-reddit/ http://startupstories.com/2006/11/29/passion-for-your-users-will-come-back-alexis-ohanian-co-founder-of-reddit/
Goladus 19y ago
Here's a blog post from november: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace
jpedrosa 19y ago
I am reminded of how the folks who do most of the work almost never are the ones who appear the most (speak, write, show up)... Speaking of which... :-)
- rokhayakebe 19y ago
  Dude. relax.
rokhayakebe 19y ago
Whether he was a founder or not, you can tell the Man is highly intelligent and would add to any team. He is a three edged sword. Philosophy, Coding and most importantly social skills.
- russ 19y ago
  He's definitely very intelligent, but I don't agree with you on the social skills part.
- lupin_sansei 19y ago
  He might be good with computers, but he sounds like your classic late teenage activist (not so clever): "So you think its partly also about creating a male-only business network? Im not sure its anything so intentional, but it definitely has that effect. If you look at the top levels of any industry, you find just incredible levels of misogyny. For one example we have good data on, the FBI taped the executives of a major US agribusiness company, ADM. And so we have, on tape, some of the incredibly offensive things these guys said. Theres no reason to believe other firms are any different."
  - rokhayakebe 19y ago
    dude. This is exactly the problem. When someone thinks differently, they become quickly part of the other group. This is 2007. Every single one of us is supposed to be an activist on his own. As long as you are not taking away from others it is fine. Make your point, Defend your point. If 5 people in room always agree, then clearly that room is clearly not filled with intelligent people.
    - russ 19y ago
      I don't see the connection you're trying to draw in your last sentence. If 5 (edit: X) people in a room always agree, it says nothing about their intelligence.
      - rokhayakebe 19y ago
immad 19y ago
Sounds like an amazing guy and the interview is really interesting. I dont know the full story but I dont think anyone else here does either, apart from the people involved.
rokhayakebe 19y ago
There is clearly something personal going here. Let's all remember there are too many IP addresses. People will speak freely, anyone who is trying to go against is still living in the 60s
scrob 19y ago

44 points by Sam_Odio 19y ago

From Aaron's blog: I say a bunch of things in the interview that are probably going to upset various people I know. In my defense, it was an interview -- I didn't rehearse my remarks in advance I'm guessing two of those people are the founders of reddit. I don't think they saw things from quite the same perspective. Edit: there's more discussion about this on reddit - http://reddit.com/info/1octb/comments http://reddit.com/info/1octb/comments

scrob 19y ago
scrob2 19y ago

schoudha 19y ago

Was Aaron Swartz a founder of Reddit? I thought he joined Steve and Alexis after Infogami didn't work out. Either way, he's a great hacker and that was great candid interview.

Sam_Odio 19y ago
He was not a founder. When the infogami team didn't work out, Aaron, Steve, & Alexis "merged" inforgami w/ reddit, creating a new company - not a bug. They all got an equal share of equity in this new company. I think that's what several people find aggravating. Aaron got a huge amount of reddit's equity, but only put in a few month's worth of work into the site. The lesson - always vest your equity. Not only for new hires, but also set up vesting schedules for the founders. This ensures everyone can make a fair exit, with no hard feelings. EDIT: To clarify, by "not a founder" - I was answering the question, "was he a founder of reddit?" He did, of course, co-found not a bug. Here's their website, for the curious: http://notabug.com/ http://notabug.com/ - I believe it's now defunct. EDIT 2: There's also a pretty good thread on reddit that explains the background: http://reddit.com/info/1octb/comments/c1odac http://reddit.com/info/1octb/comments/c1odac (for those of you who don't know, spez is Steve's alias).
- startupper 19y ago
  It depends what your definition of a "founder" is... http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=20187 http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=20187
- bootload 19y ago
  '... I think that's what several people find aggravating. Aaron got a huge amount of reddit's equity, but only put in a few month's worth of work into the site. ...' equity, worth and time working are all mixed up if you are a founder. The original idea, the re-write, the bug fixing and all the crappy small things right up to the final sale mean at any one time each founder out-contributed one another at some stage. It's the final result that counts the most. If he wasn't pulling his weight I'm pretty sure the others would have kicked up a stink and given him the boot. '... always vest your equity. Not only for new hires, but also set up vesting schedules for the founders. This ensures everyone can make a fair exit, with no hard feelings. ...' This I would agree with. Things don't always go to plan though and people may not like their new role, being told what to do, when. You know the drill. To me the biggest mistake by Naste` is assuming just because you buy a company out that all founders are equally as flexible. The biggest impression I get with Aaron is people look at him, they see a kid and skip the ability, intelligence, achievement and ideas bit. "Heh" I joked. "I bet the first time my boss finds out where I am is when he sees my photo on the front page of his own website (Wired)" I cracked up reading this line because of the irony of it.
  - Sam_Odio 19y ago
    It's the final result that counts the most. If he wasn't pulling his weight I'm pretty sure the others would have kicked up a stink and given him the boot. I actually talked with Steve about this exact topic a few months ago. The point he made was, in general, if you give a partner all the equity up front, kicking him out later doesn't make sense. Even if he's extremely unproductive, your only choice is to try to work things out. Otherwise, he's just walking away with a huge chunk of the company.
    - bootload 19y ago
pg 19y ago
The company Conde Nast bought was a merger of the startups that made Reddit and Infogami, so the founders of all of them were legally founders of the combined company. Reddit ended up being better known than Infogami, so people thought of the company as Reddit. Actually I think its name was NotaBug.
- byrneseyeview 19y ago
  http://notabug.com/ http://notabug.com/ According to the site, he's still part of the team. Was Notabug what Conde Nast actually bought? Do they own Infogami, too?
  - pg 19y ago
    Yes, CN bought NotaBug. I'm not 100% sure if they own Infogami, though; there might have been some deal where Aaron got to keep and/or open-source it.
    - abstractbill 19y ago
      The footer of the front page of infogami currently says "(c) 2007 CondeNet, Inc. All rights reserved." so I'd guess they own it.
keven 19y ago
From interview with Alexis: "Paul wanted to give Aaron Swartz, another YC founder, a birthday gift in November. More than anything else, Aaron wanted co-founder so Paul suggested the 'merger'. Merger is probably a bit hyperbolic for what actually happened, Aaron basically moved in with us and we made him a co-founder." http://startupstories.com/2006/11/29/passion-for-your-users-will-come-back-alexis-ohanian-co-founder-of-reddit/ http://startupstories.com/2006/11/29/passion-for-your-users-will-come-back-alexis-ohanian-co-founder-of-reddit/

Goladus 19y ago

Here's a blog post from november: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace

jpedrosa 19y ago

I am reminded of how the folks who do most of the work almost never are the ones who appear the most (speak, write, show up)... Speaking of which... :-)

rokhayakebe 19y ago
Dude. relax.

rokhayakebe 19y ago

Whether he was a founder or not, you can tell the Man is highly intelligent and would add to any team. He is a three edged sword. Philosophy, Coding and most importantly social skills.

russ 19y ago
He's definitely very intelligent, but I don't agree with you on the social skills part.
lupin_sansei 19y ago
He might be good with computers, but he sounds like your classic late teenage activist (not so clever): "So you think its partly also about creating a male-only business network? Im not sure its anything so intentional, but it definitely has that effect. If you look at the top levels of any industry, you find just incredible levels of misogyny. For one example we have good data on, the FBI taped the executives of a major US agribusiness company, ADM. And so we have, on tape, some of the incredibly offensive things these guys said. Theres no reason to believe other firms are any different."
- rokhayakebe 19y ago
  dude. This is exactly the problem. When someone thinks differently, they become quickly part of the other group. This is 2007. Every single one of us is supposed to be an activist on his own. As long as you are not taking away from others it is fine. Make your point, Defend your point. If 5 people in room always agree, then clearly that room is clearly not filled with intelligent people.
  - russ 19y ago
    I don't see the connection you're trying to draw in your last sentence. If 5 (edit: X) people in a room always agree, it says nothing about their intelligence.
    - rokhayakebe 19y ago

immad 19y ago

Sounds like an amazing guy and the interview is really interesting. I dont know the full story but I dont think anyone else here does either, apart from the people involved.

rokhayakebe 19y ago

There is clearly something personal going here. Let's all remember there are too many IP addresses. People will speak freely, anyone who is trying to go against is still living in the 60s

scrob 19y ago