4 ms·

It's the government that is accepting these people into the country while at the same time telling them they can't legally work. They have to survive somehow.

Scoundreller 7y ago
It’s hard to say that they were « accepting » if they arrived clandestinely. I’d rather claim that a colonizing country has the responsibility of taking care of the people it colonized if it’s going to plunder its resources, but not sure if this is the right venue for that.
- jlokier 7y ago
  I don't know the situation in France, but in the UK it is possible to arrive with the knowledge of government, be documented and allowed to stay, and still be disallowed from working. There are a significant number of people in this situation, and as you can imagine, it causes them great harm when it goes on for a long time, as well as hardship to their friends who provide them with support (housing, food, etc).
- benj111 7y ago
  When does that responsibility end? Should Europe still be taking care of people in the new world?
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    > When does that responsibility end? After it starts, of course.
- Creationer 7y ago
  Not according to Charles de Gaulle: "Have you seen the Muslims with their turbans and their djellabas (traditional, hooded, long wool coats)? You can see that they are not French. Try and integrate oil and vinegar. Shake the bottle. After a moment they separate again. The Arabs are Arabs, the French are French. Do you think that the French can absorb ten million Muslims who will tomorrow be twenty million and after tomorrow forty? If we carry out integration, if all the Berbers and Arabs of Algeria were regarded as French, how would one stop them coming to settle on the mainland where the standard of living is so much higher? My village would no longer be called Colombey-les-deux-Eglises [the two churches] but Colombey-the-two-mosques."
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    > Try and integrate oil and vinegar Yeesh, CDG never heard of mustard. He must have had something against Dijon.
  - pkaye 7y ago
    > Try and integrate oil and vinegar. Shake the bottle. After a moment they separate again. You just need a emulsifier.
- Bakary 7y ago
  >I’d rather claim that a colonizing country has the responsibility of taking care of the people it colonized if it’s going to plunder its resources, but not sure if this is the right venue for that. Why should this be the case?
bbsimonbb 7y ago
France doesn't control its borders. The border of the schengen zone is long and porous (like all borders). I don't want to underestimate the difficulties for refugies getting a start in France. People with no papers can enrol their kids in school and get some health care. To get expelled from the country, in addition to having no papers, you have to be a threat to public order, or be caught working illegally. So people 'employed' by gig workers would be exposing themselves to expulsion.
- daemin 7y ago
  You could say that Spain, Poland, and Hungary are controlling France's borders, since those countries (that I know of) that have land borders with countries outside the EU.
  - gyaniv 7y ago
    You seem to forget that a lot of the refugees are coming from the sea (by boat), so that adds those that border with the Mediterranean, including Greece, Italy, and oh yeah, France.
- _petronius 7y ago
  > France doesn't control its borders. This is reductive to the point of misleading. France does control its borders, but has chosen to accept the freedom of movement of Schengen, become a party to the Dublin Regulation, and participate in Frontex. The idea that France is helpless to deal with the question of how it treats the migrants and the asylum seekers within its borders because of these agreements is to absolve them of responsibility towards people that they have taken on through those choices in addition to their own domestic law. Telling people they can't work at all in your country, when they have nowhere else to go, is cruel. That is a choice France -- and other countries like Germany -- have made, and should be held responsible for. (PS, I also disagree with the characterisation of the European borders as 'porous', given how much money, manpower, and how many human lives are expended enforcing them. If they were porous, people would not be drowning in the Mediterranean trying to reach Europe.)
etiennemarcel 7y ago
They're not "accepted" by the government, the French/Schengen borders are porous for a number of reasons. They can work legally if they get asylum.

Scoundreller 7y ago

It’s hard to say that they were « accepting » if they arrived clandestinely. I’d rather claim that a colonizing country has the responsibility of taking care of the people it colonized if it’s going to plunder its resources, but not sure if this is the right venue for that.

jlokier 7y ago
I don't know the situation in France, but in the UK it is possible to arrive with the knowledge of government, be documented and allowed to stay, and still be disallowed from working. There are a significant number of people in this situation, and as you can imagine, it causes them great harm when it goes on for a long time, as well as hardship to their friends who provide them with support (housing, food, etc).
benj111 7y ago
When does that responsibility end? Should Europe still be taking care of people in the new world?
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  > When does that responsibility end? After it starts, of course.
Creationer 7y ago
Not according to Charles de Gaulle: "Have you seen the Muslims with their turbans and their djellabas (traditional, hooded, long wool coats)? You can see that they are not French. Try and integrate oil and vinegar. Shake the bottle. After a moment they separate again. The Arabs are Arabs, the French are French. Do you think that the French can absorb ten million Muslims who will tomorrow be twenty million and after tomorrow forty? If we carry out integration, if all the Berbers and Arabs of Algeria were regarded as French, how would one stop them coming to settle on the mainland where the standard of living is so much higher? My village would no longer be called Colombey-les-deux-Eglises [the two churches] but Colombey-the-two-mosques."
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  > Try and integrate oil and vinegar Yeesh, CDG never heard of mustard. He must have had something against Dijon.
- pkaye 7y ago
  > Try and integrate oil and vinegar. Shake the bottle. After a moment they separate again. You just need a emulsifier.
Bakary 7y ago
>I’d rather claim that a colonizing country has the responsibility of taking care of the people it colonized if it’s going to plunder its resources, but not sure if this is the right venue for that. Why should this be the case?

bbsimonbb 7y ago

France doesn't control its borders. The border of the schengen zone is long and porous (like all borders). I don't want to underestimate the difficulties for refugies getting a start in France. People with no papers can enrol their kids in school and get some health care. To get expelled from the country, in addition to having no papers, you have to be a threat to public order, or be caught working illegally. So people 'employed' by gig workers would be exposing themselves to expulsion.

daemin 7y ago
You could say that Spain, Poland, and Hungary are controlling France's borders, since those countries (that I know of) that have land borders with countries outside the EU.
- gyaniv 7y ago
  You seem to forget that a lot of the refugees are coming from the sea (by boat), so that adds those that border with the Mediterranean, including Greece, Italy, and oh yeah, France.
_petronius 7y ago
> France doesn't control its borders. This is reductive to the point of misleading. France does control its borders, but has chosen to accept the freedom of movement of Schengen, become a party to the Dublin Regulation, and participate in Frontex. The idea that France is helpless to deal with the question of how it treats the migrants and the asylum seekers within its borders because of these agreements is to absolve them of responsibility towards people that they have taken on through those choices in addition to their own domestic law. Telling people they can't work at all in your country, when they have nowhere else to go, is cruel. That is a choice France -- and other countries like Germany -- have made, and should be held responsible for. (PS, I also disagree with the characterisation of the European borders as 'porous', given how much money, manpower, and how many human lives are expended enforcing them. If they were porous, people would not be drowning in the Mediterranean trying to reach Europe.)

etiennemarcel 7y ago

They're not "accepted" by the government, the French/Schengen borders are porous for a number of reasons. They can work legally if they get asylum.