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The Future of Docker Desktop for Windows
- geggam 7y agoAmazes me how far people go to avoid simply running Linux, why isnt that the preferred option here ?
- rat9988 7y agoBecause I'm too lazy and too cheap to have two computers.
- alexhutcheson 7y agoBecause they want a laptop with decent power management that doesn't freak out when connecting or disconnecting additional displays, but they don't necessarily want a Dell XPS or a ThinkPad. They might also appreciate the ability to quickly nuke their Linux environment and create a new one if they really mess up their configs somehow.
- geggam 7y agoNone of the issues you speak of are relevant to running linux on a laptop instead of windows. Linux has decent PM and I havent had glitchy issues with displays in years. The idea of nuking the linux environment gets easier when you run one natively as you start to understand the system better. I understand the idea where everyone wants to have the same ecosystem to run things on (docker) but the best part of linux was the fact it wasnt the same as windows This convergence of the operating systems is concerning
- meddlepal 7y agoI dual boot Linux and Windows 10 on my personal Lenovo X1 and my Linux setup definitely has its moments with multiple displays... It mostly works until it does not then it's a headache. Power management seems OK but I dunno how that relates to the fan controller because in Linux my laptop sounds like a jet engine 90% of the time while in Windows it rarely spins up.
- geggam 7y agoProbably could use some configuration on fan control or CPU throttling :) I have more issues with windows than I do linux but I have been using linux on a desktop for ~15 years or more now ( would say 19 but there was a BSD period in there )
- miaklesp 7y agoOnly reading about video driver issues and sleep/hibernation configuration puts me off Linux desktop. Windows is a great and modern user-friendly OS. Office 365 is awesome too. WSL is the latest missing piece.
- metasaval 7y agoFor me, personally, I just play way too many games to have running Linux as a daily driver a viable option. I've tried multiple times to move (Manjaro with Lutris was the closest I've gotten, but to be fair I haven't tried Steam Proton yet), but it's never stuck. Yea I could dual boot and just keep Windows around for gaming, but I'm lazy and flip-flop between coding and gaming too often. For my uses, I've been able to use Windows as a decent dev environment with no major issues, but WSL2 would make things even better. Note: this is all for personal projects on my home desktop, my work laptop is Windows and I have no problems with it for my current position.
- mfatica 7y agoWill I have full access to the GPU?
- adzm 7y agoSince it runs on hyperv I would hope so, but hard to find any official sources confirming that or not.
- romanovcode 7y agoHyper-V machines do not have access to GPU, previous implementation is legacy and cannot be selected anymore. No one knows when the new implementation is going live.
- mfatica 7y agoSo it sounds like maybe-yes? My use case is machine learning. I have an AMD GPU and tensorflow is supported through ROCm, but ROCm only runs under ubuntu. Currently I dual boot Windows/Ubuntu but would love to be able to stay in Windows.
- vetinari 7y agoDirect GPU access requires way more than just virtual machine. You would need PCIe pass through, so the VM could control the GPU. For that, you would need either separate GPU, or a GPU that supports SR-IOV, and a board that supports IOMMU. ROCm specifically is not only userland, but also a kernel driver (amdkfd/amdgpu). To use it, you are going to dual boot into native Linux for a while.
- mfatica 7y agoAh bummer. Well hopefully someday soon the Windows software catches up
- withinrafael 7y agoNot true. Hyper-V supports Discrete Device Assignment [1] and therefore GPUs, USB hosts, etc. Where you'll run into issues is on the NVIDIA side. They deliberately cripple their consumer drivers to prevent use in virtual environments to extract licensing dollars. (Haven't tried AMD but last I remember, their cards don't support being pushed around by the IOMMU. Could be wrong.) [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/virtualization/hyper-v/deploy/deploying-graphics-devices-using-dda https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/virtualizati...
- jmb12686 7y agoThis is great news. No more CIFS bind mounts required for volume sharing with Windows drives. This is a particular issue with on corporate / Enterprise windows boxes.
- unilynx 7y agoIt was also pretty unstable. Low memory conditions inside the docker VM => SMB times out => I/O terminatedn => File corruption. At least it did support mmap, which was an issue with the original virtualbox-backed docker for Mac... Now, fingers crossed for transparent inotify...
- _eht 7y agoI’ve been following this longstanding Docker issue: https://github.com/docker/docker.github.io/issues/6910 https://github.com/docker/docker.github.io/issues/6910 The comments make it pretty clear how the Github crew feels about it, but I’m curious the response over here.
- blinkingled 7y agoBoy I'm happy Microsoft is making Windows 10 into a great development platform for the web! One of the rare things to feel upbeat about is that we have great choice when it comes to OSes.
- e40 7y agoCompetition at the OS level is good. Windows getting better will only make others try harder. As a former Windows user, then macOS convert, I look at what's happening on Windows with envy. macOS is getting prettier and perhaps more consistent, but buggier. It's very frustrating. I've had so many problems with security updates, with both the latest and other supported versions. Apple support is terrible these days. I filed a bug report with them and weeks later they give me absolutely lame replies. The only thing that gives me pause, still, about Windows 10: it updates when it wants to and that is difficult to turn off (you can set your network to "metered" and I hear that will do it). Also the telemetry. I feel like it spies on its users more than Apple's product does.
- blinkingled 7y agoThe updates btw got a lot better even for Windows 10 Home users. It can be argued if letting users turn off the updates is a overall good idea or not but at least you have more flexibility in postponing them with 1903.
- miaklesp 7y agoUpdates were improved in 1903
- lostmsu 7y agoMany standard Windows apps are currently also quite buggy, including Store and Mail to name a few.
- jmkni 7y agoI just wish they would take the advertising right out of Windows 10, as well as Bing in the start menu etc. It really ruins it.
- y4mi 7y agoI'm forced to use Windows at work and am so looking forward to wsl2. Starting a new terminal with wsl1 takes so long and I'm less than happy with all terminal emulators. ConEmu has broken copy paste, alacrity doesn't have proper tiling... Heck, I've started using hyper of all things. I realize that I probably never be happy on Windows when I can actually use i3wm at home, but if it could just suck less I'd be so ecstatic.
- enlyth 7y agoI'm curious, how is copy paste broken? I've been using Cmder for a while and haven't had any issues
- y4mi 7y agoThe middle of the copy pasted string is sometimes missing. So if I copy `echo hi && cat /etc/hostname` it's gonna paste `echo hitc/hostname` It has 4 different paste methods in the settings, I encountered the bug on all at work. I've used it without encountering the bug before though, but I haven't figured out what causes it.
- mikepurvis 7y agoThe new Windows Terminal is looking very nice so far: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal https://github.com/microsoft/terminal You still have to build it from source in VS 2017 or 2019, and there are a few rough edges (currently only middle click for copy/paste), but it's a great start. They should have some official binaries up pretty soon.
- mruszczyk 7y agoYou can grab build artifacts from builds of the master branch off their CI. You need to enable developer mode to allow the loading of an unsigned binary. https://dev.azure.com/ms/Terminal/_build/results?buildId=20387 https://dev.azure.com/ms/Terminal/_build/results?buildId=203...
- 7y ago
- mrkstu 7y agoSo, I think the main sticking point here is the lock-in of Hyper-V. By making a new popular feature completely dependent on a technology that explicitly disables the use of competitive hypervisors, they're giving with one hand and taking with the other. If I was on VM-Ware's executive team, I'd be seriously thinking about filing an anti-trust complaint and the open source community should be thinking about whether submarining virtualbox is worth what Microsoft is doing here.
- damnyou 7y agoDon't all hypervisors disable other hypervisors?
- tym0 7y agoHypervisor Framework and VirtualBox seem to cohabit just fine on MacOS.
- joemaller1 7y agoWe work with a lot of independent contractors, many of whom get by fine with Window Home, so this is great news: > ...because WSL 2 works on Windows 10 Home edition, so will Docker Desktop Glad to see this too: > bind mounts from WSL will support inotify events and have nearly identical I/O performance as on a native Linux machine
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Fr0styMatt88 7y agoI didn't think Hyper-V was available on Windows 10 Home Edition; has this changed or was it always available?
- dstaley 7y agoIt's not. It's possible Microsoft is making an exception for WSL2, but I highly doubt the user will be able to run arbitrary VMs on HyperV without a Pro edition of Windows.
- penagwin 7y agoAccording to others in this thread, if HyperV is enabled then the windows host actually partially runs on HyperV (which is part of the reason you can't use other hypervisors with HyperV turned on). The running theory is that they want HyperV on for all installs (like turned on by default).
- vitorgrs 7y agoWindows Virtual Machine platform is on Home, not Hyper-V itself.
- mimixco 7y agoThis is a big step toward the full merger of Windows and Linux on the desktop, which is the most logical way forward for both platforms. Kudos to Docker for taking a primary role and following Microsoft in this direction.
- mikhailt 7y agoCan you explain how this is the most logical way forward for Linux? For me, it feels it could be the opposite with Windows potentially impacting how Linux moves forward by having more devs using WSL instead of actual Linux and not actually optimizing for native Linux support. For an example, Valve's Proton vs. native linux games, if I was a game dev, I wouldn't bother porting any Windows games to Linux, just rely on Proton instead.
- antisemiotic 7y ago>For an example, Valve's Proton vs. native linux games, if I was a game dev, I wouldn't bother porting any Windows games to Linux, just rely on Proton instead I see what you mean, but on the other hand, most game development studios already didn't bother to port anyway.
- jraph 7y agoI hope they will pick Linux as the kernel and Plasma as the desktop environment in this full merger, and ls as the listing directory command.
- bdcravens 7y ago> ls as the listing directory command ls works in Power Shell (though I believe it's just an alias)
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago`ls` and many other traditional unix command names are aliased to PowerShell equivalents that don't take the same arguments and often behave very very differently. In `ls`'s case, it's `Get-ChildItem`. It is my opinion that this was one of the worst decisions made by PowerShell and everyone would be better off if they'd never done that.
- 2wrist 7y agoSo... will WSL2 need to be installed as per WSL? because WSL will not install on my work machine as the machine is locked down by the firm.. So will I lose local Docker?
- heywire 7y agoFrom what I understand, this will only affect Linux containers running on Windows. Is that correct? What about Windows containers? I know they're not nearly as popular, but we did evaluate them at one time for running a legacy Windows application. I doubt we're alone in that use case.
- Zardoz84 7y agoSo WSL2 would use a lightweight VM running a Linux kernel to avoid the slow windows I/O.
- vbezhenar 7y agoI'm very skeptical of this new technology. I used VirtualBox for years and I will continue to do so. I just don't see any reason to switch to that new technology. Mounts? VirtualBox can do that. Fast boot? Well, VirtualBox boots in seconds, that's more than enough for me. Dynamic memory allocation? VirtualBox has memory balooning, if I ever would run into memory limits, I can always do that. And zero problems with all those Hyper-V conflicts, like Android emulators, snapshot support, VM import/export, actually any OS rather than just Linux, etc.
- AdrianB1 7y agoI used VMware since 2007, HyperV and VirtualBox for more than 5 years and I don't have such strong opinions, I use the one that is available and does the job. Because I had less problems with VMware and HyperV, I almost gave up to VirtualBox, YMMV.
- nikolay 7y agoIt's sad that all this needs Windows 10 Pro, which makes all learner developers unable to use Docker to learn properly unless they upgrade.