4 ms·

They could have done a lot worse. OS/2 was very stable compared to the NT of the same era. I'm not sure why we laugh at old systems that are still doing their

They could have done a lot worse. OS/2 was very stable compared to the NT of the same era. I'm not sure why we laugh at old systems that are still doing their job thirty years later. If anything we should celebrate the resilience and longevity. Would it be immediately better if we replaced it with a bunch of docker containers connecting to mongodb or something? I think we'd be better off as a society if we became tech luddites a bit more. Maybe we could start by replacing all of the facial recognition advertising panels with OS/2.

_underground 7y ago
I'm not sure why we laugh at old systems that are still doing their job Because other countries are hacking our infrastructure, as we hack theirs, and those laughing are doing so nervously, because with an operating system that is decades out of date, it's painfully obvious that anything defended by a password protected user account on that operating system isn't really protected against a determined enemy at all, and any of the permissions and privileges conferred by user accounts on that system are likely a facade protected by an honor system, and mostly physical security. In truth, even if the operating system were newer, we would not want it hooked up to the internet, but if the operating system were up to date, and not well isolated and became exposed to any public gateways, it would stand a fighting chance of not spilling its guts to the world. With such a system disconnected from the internet, one can still bet that a determined attack is going to implant remote connectivity under their own control, and their job is much easier once the implant is connected. They don't need to sweat OS level password rotation, probably won't worry about strong encryption key changes or having to prove identity to policy enforcement tools with signing keys or tokens. Very little in the way of locking the integrity of the system is built into the concept of the OS. The application layer may offer better protection with proprietary controls, but the contents of disk and RAM are very probably possible to dump, inspect, bit twiddle and write back in place to just do anything you want, if your expertise runs deep enough.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  Is the NYC subway's OS/2 connected to the internet?
  - xvector 7y ago
    I think the real question is “what is the physical security model of the OS/2?” I would imagine a determined attacker could infiltrate the system in-person. The question then becomes - how easy is it to compromise the system given physical access? And, assuming total compromise, how much damage and loss of life can be caused? (Do the subways have physical fail-safes?)
    - flomo 7y ago
      OS/2 was a single user PC OS, it didn't have any physical security or account passwords or etc.
      - tw04 7y ago
        Countless ATMs ran it for decades. They obviously figured something out to secure it.
        meowface 7y ago
        I wouldn't be so confident about that.
        nickpsecurity 7y ago
        Cameras, locks, and obfuscation, basically. Ti hack it, you need to be alone with it long enough to find the flaws, figure out how dispensor works, etc. People hardly ever try to bypass them. Recently, hackers have been buying, studying, and hacking ATM's. They're not secure. You can see them in action searching for DEFCON ATM hacking on YouTube.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      Wouldn't that be true of a mechanical system as well? We need a way to deal with this. It doesn't make sense to change out the OS of something like a subway system every five years or so.
- southern_cross 7y ago
  Statements like that ring a bit hollow considering the number of security patches that Microsoft has to provide on a ongoing basis for their most "modern" Windows OS, and the thousands to tens of thousands of potential holes still left to be patched there. Out of necessity that patching is just never going to end, in other words, so Windows will never really be secure. In fact, it may just be about time to bring something like OS/2 back from the grave.
endorphone 7y ago
It seems to be nothing more than an interesting observation, and nothing about it seems belittling or denigrating. An old system is still running a platform well. Story at 11.
StreamBright 7y ago
I really miss OS/2. It would be such a great os even today.
- gerbilly 7y ago
  Two things killed it: * It required twice as much RAM as windows to run well. (4Mb IIRC) * They had a ridiculously tone deaf ad campaign. One ad had copy to the effect of: "OS/2 Obliterates your programs."
tinus_hn 7y ago
If you boot up an MS-DOS floppy on a suitable computer it’ll run fine today. What’s the achievement in that?

_underground 7y ago

I'm not sure why we laugh at old systems that are still doing their job Because other countries are hacking our infrastructure, as we hack theirs, and those laughing are doing so nervously, because with an operating system that is decades out of date, it's painfully obvious that anything defended by a password protected user account on that operating system isn't really protected against a determined enemy at all, and any of the permissions and privileges conferred by user accounts on that system are likely a facade protected by an honor system, and mostly physical security. In truth, even if the operating system were newer, we would not want it hooked up to the internet, but if the operating system were up to date, and not well isolated and became exposed to any public gateways, it would stand a fighting chance of not spilling its guts to the world. With such a system disconnected from the internet, one can still bet that a determined attack is going to implant remote connectivity under their own control, and their job is much easier once the implant is connected. They don't need to sweat OS level password rotation, probably won't worry about strong encryption key changes or having to prove identity to policy enforcement tools with signing keys or tokens. Very little in the way of locking the integrity of the system is built into the concept of the OS. The application layer may offer better protection with proprietary controls, but the contents of disk and RAM are very probably possible to dump, inspect, bit twiddle and write back in place to just do anything you want, if your expertise runs deep enough.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
Is the NYC subway's OS/2 connected to the internet?
- xvector 7y ago
  I think the real question is “what is the physical security model of the OS/2?” I would imagine a determined attacker could infiltrate the system in-person. The question then becomes - how easy is it to compromise the system given physical access? And, assuming total compromise, how much damage and loss of life can be caused? (Do the subways have physical fail-safes?)
  - flomo 7y ago
    OS/2 was a single user PC OS, it didn't have any physical security or account passwords or etc.
    - tw04 7y ago
      Countless ATMs ran it for decades. They obviously figured something out to secure it.
      - meowface 7y ago
        I wouldn't be so confident about that.
      - nickpsecurity 7y ago
        Cameras, locks, and obfuscation, basically. Ti hack it, you need to be alone with it long enough to find the flaws, figure out how dispensor works, etc. People hardly ever try to bypass them. Recently, hackers have been buying, studying, and hacking ATM's. They're not secure. You can see them in action searching for DEFCON ATM hacking on YouTube.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Wouldn't that be true of a mechanical system as well? We need a way to deal with this. It doesn't make sense to change out the OS of something like a subway system every five years or so.
southern_cross 7y ago
Statements like that ring a bit hollow considering the number of security patches that Microsoft has to provide on a ongoing basis for their most "modern" Windows OS, and the thousands to tens of thousands of potential holes still left to be patched there. Out of necessity that patching is just never going to end, in other words, so Windows will never really be secure. In fact, it may just be about time to bring something like OS/2 back from the grave.

endorphone 7y ago

It seems to be nothing more than an interesting observation, and nothing about it seems belittling or denigrating. An old system is still running a platform well. Story at 11.

StreamBright 7y ago

I really miss OS/2. It would be such a great os even today.

gerbilly 7y ago
Two things killed it: * It required twice as much RAM as windows to run well. (4Mb IIRC) * They had a ridiculously tone deaf ad campaign. One ad had copy to the effect of: "OS/2 Obliterates your programs."

tinus_hn 7y ago

If you boot up an MS-DOS floppy on a suitable computer it’ll run fine today. What’s the achievement in that?