12 ms·

Lyrics Site Genius.com Accuses Google of Lifting Its Content

251 points by o10449366 7y ago

vemv 7y ago
'Its' content? Don't the lyrics belong to their actual authors?
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  I suspect it's a bit like recipes. Taking someone else's list of ingredients and steps and putting them in your own words is legal. Taking the recipe verbatim isn't.
  - bdcravens 7y ago
    Lyrics that aren't verbatim aren't lyrics.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      Missing the point. Transcribing the lyrics yourself is kinda like writing the list of ingredients - it's a statement of fact. "The lyrics of this song are X." Copying that effort from someone else, alternating apostrophes and all, is a bit different. In most cases, you can't prove that's what happened, but it's quite clear here.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - cameronbrown 7y ago
        You'd have a hard time proving that though. It's incredibly easy for all the grammar to end up the same.
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        Normally, yes. When the apostrophes spell out "red handed" in Morse code, though...
    - arbie 7y ago
      If I listen to a song and transcribe the lyrics myself, do I still require a license to put them up online and profit from them via ads on my site?
      - brighter2morrow 7y ago
        Yes
o10449366 7y ago
Paywall link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/lyrics-site-genius-com-accuses-google-of-lifting-its-content-11560677400?mod=rsswn https://www.wsj.com/articles/lyrics-site-genius-com-accuses-...
plotteddancer16 7y ago
Mapmakers had a similar problem in the past, but the theft could be proven by creating data (“trap streets”) that didn’t exist. Sounds like Genius has been employing similar mechanisms and needs to proceed with legal remedies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street
- dpflan 7y ago
  That is an interesting idea. From the article in this post: "When the two types of apostrophes were converted to the dots and dashes used in Morse code, they spelled out the words 'Red Handed.'" I'm aware of the history of Genius (formerly Rap Genius) so I found the translation of the code to be entertaining and mildly ironic.
tarr11 7y ago
Related to their previous battles with Google ("We're sorry for being such morons") https://genius.com/Genius-founders-rap-genius-is-back-on-google-annotated https://genius.com/Genius-founders-rap-genius-is-back-on-goo...
- walshemj 7y ago
  Sounds like they haven't learnt their lesson and/or have an incompetent SEO director
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
exogeny 7y ago
>The company doesn’t disclose revenues but says its ad business runs to tens of millions of dollars per year. I am extremely skeptical of this claim.
walshemj 7y ago
IF this is about position 0 results Google allows you to opt out as they say here https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/6229325?hl=en https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/6229325?hl=en "You can opt out of featured snippets by preventing snippets on your page using the <meta name="googlebot" content="nosnippet"> tag on your page. This will remove all snippets on your page, including those in regular search results." The WSJ also comments that rap genius does not have rights here - full disclosure I am an investor in Hipgnosis (SONG) - I trust Rap genius are paying them correctly.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  The snippets aren't coming (directly) from Genius, though. > In a statement, Google said the lyrics on its site, which pop up in little search-result squares called “information panels,” are licensed from partners, not created by Google. > In 2016, Google partnered with LyricFind Inc., a Canadian company that secures deals with music publishers allowing companies such as Google to publish lyrics online. The meta tag would have no effect. One of Google's vendors is stealing from Genius, not Google directly.
  - walshemj 7y ago
    Interesting so why are rap genius not suing them? And have never heard of google licencing position 0 snippets before. And in the UK I see the actual song writers and publishers credited which is sort of what I would expect
    - applecrazy 7y ago
      Citing a much smaller company means there's probably no media exposure. This move is as much as a PR stunt as it is an actual legal claim.
- ikeboy 7y ago
  >The WSJ also comments that rap genius does not have rights here Citing a former Google lawyer, not exactly the most unbiased source.
robk 7y ago
These guys are notorious for having stolen lyrics from other sites for many years and only licensing them after legal threats. Funny to see it all come full circle.
- cheeze 7y ago
  Seriously. They built their empire on essentially 'stealing' lyrics.
  - Avamander 7y ago
    I have a feeling that if Google supported MusicBrainz more we could get an open LyricsBrainz.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  That sounds odd to me that any site would own the copyright to lyrics. Wouldnt that be the artist / record company's property? The value add of Genius isnt so much in the lyrics but in the explanation and context given grom Genius. I have even seen actual artists confirm interpretations and explain some things as well I think Hittman from Dr. Dre's 2001 album was one such artist if I remember correctly. I do see what you are saying on the other hand but I dont think that lyrics written down from a song are some random websites copyright / property.
  - buckminster 7y ago
    The lyrics belong to the artist or publisher and lyric sites need a licence from them.
    - baby 7y ago
      I always hated this. It's been historically hard to get easy access to lyrics of songs you've bought! It always made no sense to me that you couldn't publish lyrics of songs.
      - 7y ago
CPLX 7y ago
Both of these guys suck. These lyrics are the intellectual property of the people who actually wrote them.
- emilfihlman 7y ago
  So lets say I know the lyrics to a song that I don't own and the song is new. Do you reckon I can't write those lyrics down and teach them to someone because they "are" someone's intellectual property?
  - b_tterc_p 7y ago
    I believe he's saying you can't accuse an unrelated third party of stealing the lyrics from you, because you don't own them in the first place.
    - giancarlostoro 7y ago
      This is what baffles me the most. However if you are directly fetching them from someones servers you should at least provide attribution if you are wasting their resources.
      - p49k 7y ago
        You should provide more than that. It’s not just server resources but data entry and proofing and whatever else goes into making their product. Genius pays royalties for using the lyrics - I don’t see why the fact that they don’t belong to Genius is relevant. If Amazon licenses a TV show that Netflix also licensed, it doesn’t give them the right to copy Netflix’s UI, descriptions, transcoded/edited video streams, etc.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  Genius also offers significant lyric annotation and crowd sources unpublished lyrics - that I imagine is what they are protective about.
hornbaker 7y ago
I wonder how many companies Google has wounded/killed with their search infopanels. For example, yesterday I searched for “speedtest” expecting Ookla’s speedtest.net to be the top result. Nope, now it’s a one-click speed test offered by Google at the top. Great for users, devastating for the sites at the top of the SERPs.
- dpflan 7y ago
  It’s the power of Google as a portal to the internet and search engine; clearly it is a powerful position to have: Google can access demand for a service, and once it reaches a certain threshold decide to throw resources at creating their own version to keep you in their ecosystem. I would like to know what Google team is in charge of using search trends to identify services to offer.
  - devoply 7y ago
    What does Google gain? Maybe some data, and that's probably what this is about, getting speed test data from lots of users. But revenue wise I don't think it gains anything and sties currently offering the service go out of business over night. Why go after Genius, well probably because it has some peripheral business interest like Google music which is benefiting from this behavior.
    - dpflan 7y ago
      I can see: speedtest indicates an interest in checking internet service which could lead to internet in Google Fiber in a particular region: assuming GF is still functioning. This is probably a stretch. Yes, making a node that connects to another service seems like a goal.
      - dodobirdlord 7y ago
        Having a good idea of what kinds of internet speeds people have around the world is no doubt hugely useful for all sorts of things like planning Stadia[0]. But moreover, Google is a member of the M-Lab[1] project that runs the speedtest servers, so why not add the feature? [0]https://stadia.dev/ https://stadia.dev/ [1]https://www.measurementlab.net/ https://www.measurementlab.net/
appstorelottery 7y ago
Years ago I had one of the top Coin Tossing Apps on iOS. Google changed all that by answering a coin-toss search with an actual coin-toss. My mind was blown that I was actually competing with Google at that point...
- ryan_j_naughton 7y ago
  What Google search will give you such results?
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    https://www.google.com/search?q=flip+a+coin https://www.google.com/search?q=flip+a+coin
  - AndrewDucker 7y ago
    Searching for "Coin Toss" worked for me.
- mmastrac 7y ago
  When I was at StumbleUpon we were competing with a "dice" icon that Google added to their own toolbar - still got bought for $70+ million.
- equdi 7y ago
  So instead of telling people to install an app that potentially has tracking mechanisms, ads, in-app purchases... users get an instantaneous version without ever leaving search. Well it's hard to feel sympathy for you.
  - bestnameever 7y ago
    I don't think he is asking for sympathy. I think he is just sharing his experience.
    - appstorelottery 7y ago
icebraining 7y ago
Frankly, what do they expect to gain here? A few thousands bucks? Even if Google is getting the lyrics from their site, it's not like they're irreplaceable. Seems like grasping at straws, and if I was an investor, I'd be worried.
yvoschaap 7y ago
I caught Google a few years back with the same hijack, but then it was Metrolyrics: https://yvoschaap.com/weblog/misbehavior_by_google_lyrics_onebox_result https://yvoschaap.com/weblog/misbehavior_by_google_lyrics_on...
brokentone 7y ago
says the paywalled website
joejerryronnie 7y ago
Don’t worry, Elizabeth Warren and Margrethe Vestager will be breaking up the big tech companies and hamstringing the US tech industry with targeted, punitive taxes. Meanwhile, in China, the tech industry enjoys unfettered access to government funding, protectionism, and monopolistic imperialism as they conquer the world. Nothing anyone in the free world needs to worry about. Right?
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't use HN for political or ideological battle, or post flamebait. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Would you mind reviewing those rules and taking the spirit of this site more to heart when commenting here? The idea is to read what gratifies your curiosity and post from that place. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20196747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20196747 and marked it off-topic.
  - joejerryronnie 7y ago
    I see political and ideological posts all the time on HN. Sure most of them are of the progressive left wing variety, which seems perfectly fine with the mods. I don’t even think this post was all that flamebaity. Is anything I mentioned actually inaccurate? Is it the tone (which is simply a copy of the post I replied to)?
    - dang 7y ago
      What made it flamebaity was the swerve to a partisan angle plus the snark plus the denunciatory rhetoric. You're right that the GP comment wasn't great either, but these things are all matters of degree and your reply was several degrees worse. If you look more closely you'll notice that we moderate plenty of political and ideological posts of the progressive left wing variety. Perceptions of bias are distorted by a strong tendency everyone has to feel like their side is discriminated against while the side they dislike gets favored. I've written a ton about this if you or anyone want further explanation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20%22hostile%20media%20effect%22 https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20%22cognitive%20bias%22 https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
faissaloo 7y ago
And I ask 'so what?'
asatterfield54 7y ago
1. SELECT * FROM adsense_payouts ORDER BY amount DESC. If no results, SELECT * FROM search_results ORDER BY clicks DESC. 2. If y > x, where x = ((purchase price of company from #1) / 3) and y = (amount of payout) or y = (clicks * 1000) in #1 3. Clone MVP, remove company from adsense_payouts and search_results
paulpauper 7y ago
You mean the content created and owned by the actual song writers or labels.
nikanj 7y ago
Next: 1) Google will apologize and remove genius.com from results 2) Traffic at genius will plummet 3) Genius will beg for mercy, and give Google full rights to all material
- dewey 7y ago
  That already happened once a couple of years ago for their blog spam SEO hack.
crazygringo 7y ago
> Genius said it found more than 100 examples of songs on Google that came from its site. > In a statement, Google said the lyrics on its site, which pop up in little search-result squares called “information panels,” are licensed from partners, not created by Google... In 2016, Google partnered with LyricFind Inc., a Canadian company that secures deals with music publishers allowing companies such as Google to publish lyrics online. So Google is properly licensing lyrics from song publishers and uses a third party to provide the lyrics, and somehow that third party wound up with more than a "hundred" -- not a million but a hundred -- that were copy-pasted from Genius at some point. Except for the apostrophes thing being clever, this sounds like a complete non-issue? That Genius's issue is not with Google but the company they source from... AND that they'd have to prove a wholesale systematic copying (closer to millions of songs) as opposed to it being e.g. some rando employee who got lazy and took a shortcut one week?
- xenator 7y ago
  The same pattern you can use for any big company. Make some shady proxy one-day living pocket company, sign contract, let'em steal others IP, you are clear, ..., PROFIT! I don't think that company even should know how their content will be used. For example if they just offer web-scraping service and provide raw data? For example for statistical analizes. And then Google publish this data as is on SERP and make money on adv. How is responsible in this case?
- lettergram 7y ago
  > "hundred" -- not a million but a hundred -- that were copy-pasted from Genius at some point. To be fair, they can probably only confirm incorrect lyrics. Correct ones would look the exact same. Presumably, the vast majority are correct
  - smt88 7y ago
    > Correct ones would look the exact same. Unlikely. Official lyrics (printed in CD inserts, for example) often have punctuation mistakes, or they have no punctuation at all. Unofficial lyrics can have the same words while still differing in punctuation, line breaks, capitalization, or spelling (since most languages have multiple ways to spell the same word -- color/colour, for example). All the tiny variations could easily create a distinct fingerprint for each source of lyrics.
paul7986 7y ago
No way that’s true...Google Does No Evil...........that’s their mantra!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
vonseel 7y ago
I have noticed the opposite, that Googles lyrics are usually inaccurate and I assumed they were lifted from alternative sources than Genius. Just my experience, though.
- wmil 7y ago
  It probably isn't Google though. They say they license and receive content from LyricFind Inc, which probably takes care of all the legal issues. I'm guess that LyricFind got lawyers from all the major labels to sign licenses, but no one ever actually bothered to get the lyrics for them. Management probably told their tech people to just get them from wherever.
p1necone 7y ago
This seems pretty inane to me. Rightsholder licenses lyrics to both Genius and Google, Google copies lyric text from Genius. Seems like Genius shouldn't have a leg to stand on? (And even if they were technically right, they're wasting courts time and not actually achieving anything useful).
wyqydsyq 7y ago
How is Genius.com in a position to make any claims on "its content" when said content is entirely the copyrighted works of various artists? Just because the lyrics may be entered by users has no bearing on the fact that the lyrics are copyrighted works and that Genius.com doesn't own or have any rights to them. Just like doing a cover of another band's song doesn't mean you now own the song, reproducing and distributing a song's lyrics doesn't mean you now own the lyrics.
Grue3 7y ago
Anecdotal, but I was looking up lyrics for a song, and AZLyrics and Genius had slightly different lyrics. Google used AZLyrics version.
- dwringer 7y ago
  My experience has been the same, not once but many times. Often I consider the lyrics on Genius to be more accurate, to the point where I am in the habit of bypassing whatever Google tells me the lyrics are and searching directly for the former.
amaccuish 7y ago
The wikipedia info panels are particulary annoying, it seems pretty hard to find that actual link to the wiki article and I think they remove the wiki article from the main search results since it's now at the side.
charlesism 7y ago
“It’s not fair! We stole these lyrics first”
yawz 7y ago
LyricFind Offers Corrections to Inaccuracies in Wall Street Journal Reporting https://lyricfind.com/index.php?id=316 https://lyricfind.com/index.php?id=316

251 points by o10449366 7y ago

vemv 7y ago

'Its' content? Don't the lyrics belong to their actual authors?

ceejayoz 7y ago
I suspect it's a bit like recipes. Taking someone else's list of ingredients and steps and putting them in your own words is legal. Taking the recipe verbatim isn't.
- bdcravens 7y ago
  Lyrics that aren't verbatim aren't lyrics.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Missing the point. Transcribing the lyrics yourself is kinda like writing the list of ingredients - it's a statement of fact. "The lyrics of this song are X." Copying that effort from someone else, alternating apostrophes and all, is a bit different. In most cases, you can't prove that's what happened, but it's quite clear here.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - cameronbrown 7y ago
      You'd have a hard time proving that though. It's incredibly easy for all the grammar to end up the same.
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        Normally, yes. When the apostrophes spell out "red handed" in Morse code, though...
  - arbie 7y ago
    If I listen to a song and transcribe the lyrics myself, do I still require a license to put them up online and profit from them via ads on my site?
    - brighter2morrow 7y ago
      Yes

o10449366 7y ago

Paywall link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/lyrics-site-genius-com-accuses-google-of-lifting-its-content-11560677400?mod=rsswn https://www.wsj.com/articles/lyrics-site-genius-com-accuses-...

plotteddancer16 7y ago

Mapmakers had a similar problem in the past, but the theft could be proven by creating data (“trap streets”) that didn’t exist. Sounds like Genius has been employing similar mechanisms and needs to proceed with legal remedies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street

dpflan 7y ago
That is an interesting idea. From the article in this post: "When the two types of apostrophes were converted to the dots and dashes used in Morse code, they spelled out the words 'Red Handed.'" I'm aware of the history of Genius (formerly Rap Genius) so I found the translation of the code to be entertaining and mildly ironic.

tarr11 7y ago

Related to their previous battles with Google ("We're sorry for being such morons") https://genius.com/Genius-founders-rap-genius-is-back-on-google-annotated https://genius.com/Genius-founders-rap-genius-is-back-on-goo...

walshemj 7y ago
Sounds like they haven't learnt their lesson and/or have an incompetent SEO director
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

exogeny 7y ago

>The company doesn’t disclose revenues but says its ad business runs to tens of millions of dollars per year. I am extremely skeptical of this claim.

walshemj 7y ago

IF this is about position 0 results Google allows you to opt out as they say here https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/6229325?hl=en https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/6229325?hl=en "You can opt out of featured snippets by preventing snippets on your page using the <meta name="googlebot" content="nosnippet"> tag on your page. This will remove all snippets on your page, including those in regular search results." The WSJ also comments that rap genius does not have rights here - full disclosure I am an investor in Hipgnosis (SONG) - I trust Rap genius are paying them correctly.

ceejayoz 7y ago
The snippets aren't coming (directly) from Genius, though. > In a statement, Google said the lyrics on its site, which pop up in little search-result squares called “information panels,” are licensed from partners, not created by Google. > In 2016, Google partnered with LyricFind Inc., a Canadian company that secures deals with music publishers allowing companies such as Google to publish lyrics online. The meta tag would have no effect. One of Google's vendors is stealing from Genius, not Google directly.
- walshemj 7y ago
  Interesting so why are rap genius not suing them? And have never heard of google licencing position 0 snippets before. And in the UK I see the actual song writers and publishers credited which is sort of what I would expect
  - applecrazy 7y ago
    Citing a much smaller company means there's probably no media exposure. This move is as much as a PR stunt as it is an actual legal claim.
ikeboy 7y ago
>The WSJ also comments that rap genius does not have rights here Citing a former Google lawyer, not exactly the most unbiased source.

robk 7y ago

These guys are notorious for having stolen lyrics from other sites for many years and only licensing them after legal threats. Funny to see it all come full circle.

cheeze 7y ago
Seriously. They built their empire on essentially 'stealing' lyrics.
- Avamander 7y ago
  I have a feeling that if Google supported MusicBrainz more we could get an open LyricsBrainz.
giancarlostoro 7y ago
That sounds odd to me that any site would own the copyright to lyrics. Wouldnt that be the artist / record company's property? The value add of Genius isnt so much in the lyrics but in the explanation and context given grom Genius. I have even seen actual artists confirm interpretations and explain some things as well I think Hittman from Dr. Dre's 2001 album was one such artist if I remember correctly. I do see what you are saying on the other hand but I dont think that lyrics written down from a song are some random websites copyright / property.
- buckminster 7y ago
  The lyrics belong to the artist or publisher and lyric sites need a licence from them.
  - baby 7y ago
    I always hated this. It's been historically hard to get easy access to lyrics of songs you've bought! It always made no sense to me that you couldn't publish lyrics of songs.
    - 7y ago

CPLX 7y ago

Both of these guys suck. These lyrics are the intellectual property of the people who actually wrote them.

emilfihlman 7y ago
So lets say I know the lyrics to a song that I don't own and the song is new. Do you reckon I can't write those lyrics down and teach them to someone because they "are" someone's intellectual property?
- b_tterc_p 7y ago
  I believe he's saying you can't accuse an unrelated third party of stealing the lyrics from you, because you don't own them in the first place.
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    This is what baffles me the most. However if you are directly fetching them from someones servers you should at least provide attribution if you are wasting their resources.
    - p49k 7y ago
      You should provide more than that. It’s not just server resources but data entry and proofing and whatever else goes into making their product. Genius pays royalties for using the lyrics - I don’t see why the fact that they don’t belong to Genius is relevant. If Amazon licenses a TV show that Netflix also licensed, it doesn’t give them the right to copy Netflix’s UI, descriptions, transcoded/edited video streams, etc.
vorpalhex 7y ago
Genius also offers significant lyric annotation and crowd sources unpublished lyrics - that I imagine is what they are protective about.

hornbaker 7y ago

I wonder how many companies Google has wounded/killed with their search infopanels. For example, yesterday I searched for “speedtest” expecting Ookla’s speedtest.net to be the top result. Nope, now it’s a one-click speed test offered by Google at the top. Great for users, devastating for the sites at the top of the SERPs.

dpflan 7y ago
It’s the power of Google as a portal to the internet and search engine; clearly it is a powerful position to have: Google can access demand for a service, and once it reaches a certain threshold decide to throw resources at creating their own version to keep you in their ecosystem. I would like to know what Google team is in charge of using search trends to identify services to offer.
- devoply 7y ago
  What does Google gain? Maybe some data, and that's probably what this is about, getting speed test data from lots of users. But revenue wise I don't think it gains anything and sties currently offering the service go out of business over night. Why go after Genius, well probably because it has some peripheral business interest like Google music which is benefiting from this behavior.
  - dpflan 7y ago
    I can see: speedtest indicates an interest in checking internet service which could lead to internet in Google Fiber in a particular region: assuming GF is still functioning. This is probably a stretch. Yes, making a node that connects to another service seems like a goal.
    - dodobirdlord 7y ago
      Having a good idea of what kinds of internet speeds people have around the world is no doubt hugely useful for all sorts of things like planning Stadia[0]. But moreover, Google is a member of the M-Lab[1] project that runs the speedtest servers, so why not add the feature? [0]https://stadia.dev/ https://stadia.dev/ [1]https://www.measurementlab.net/ https://www.measurementlab.net/

appstorelottery 7y ago

Years ago I had one of the top Coin Tossing Apps on iOS. Google changed all that by answering a coin-toss search with an actual coin-toss. My mind was blown that I was actually competing with Google at that point...

ryan_j_naughton 7y ago
What Google search will give you such results?
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=flip+a+coin https://www.google.com/search?q=flip+a+coin
- AndrewDucker 7y ago
  Searching for "Coin Toss" worked for me.
mmastrac 7y ago
When I was at StumbleUpon we were competing with a "dice" icon that Google added to their own toolbar - still got bought for $70+ million.
equdi 7y ago
So instead of telling people to install an app that potentially has tracking mechanisms, ads, in-app purchases... users get an instantaneous version without ever leaving search. Well it's hard to feel sympathy for you.
- bestnameever 7y ago
  I don't think he is asking for sympathy. I think he is just sharing his experience.
  - appstorelottery 7y ago

icebraining 7y ago

Frankly, what do they expect to gain here? A few thousands bucks? Even if Google is getting the lyrics from their site, it's not like they're irreplaceable. Seems like grasping at straws, and if I was an investor, I'd be worried.

yvoschaap 7y ago

I caught Google a few years back with the same hijack, but then it was Metrolyrics: https://yvoschaap.com/weblog/misbehavior_by_google_lyrics_onebox_result https://yvoschaap.com/weblog/misbehavior_by_google_lyrics_on...

brokentone 7y ago

says the paywalled website

joejerryronnie 7y ago

Don’t worry, Elizabeth Warren and Margrethe Vestager will be breaking up the big tech companies and hamstringing the US tech industry with targeted, punitive taxes. Meanwhile, in China, the tech industry enjoys unfettered access to government funding, protectionism, and monopolistic imperialism as they conquer the world. Nothing anyone in the free world needs to worry about. Right?

dang 7y ago
Please don't use HN for political or ideological battle, or post flamebait. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Would you mind reviewing those rules and taking the spirit of this site more to heart when commenting here? The idea is to read what gratifies your curiosity and post from that place. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20196747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20196747 and marked it off-topic.
- joejerryronnie 7y ago
  I see political and ideological posts all the time on HN. Sure most of them are of the progressive left wing variety, which seems perfectly fine with the mods. I don’t even think this post was all that flamebaity. Is anything I mentioned actually inaccurate? Is it the tone (which is simply a copy of the post I replied to)?
  - dang 7y ago
    What made it flamebaity was the swerve to a partisan angle plus the snark plus the denunciatory rhetoric. You're right that the GP comment wasn't great either, but these things are all matters of degree and your reply was several degrees worse. If you look more closely you'll notice that we moderate plenty of political and ideological posts of the progressive left wing variety. Perceptions of bias are distorted by a strong tendency everyone has to feel like their side is discriminated against while the side they dislike gets favored. I've written a ton about this if you or anyone want further explanation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20%22hostile%20media%20effect%22 https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20%22cognitive%20bias%22 https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

faissaloo 7y ago

And I ask 'so what?'

asatterfield54 7y ago

1. SELECT * FROM adsense_payouts ORDER BY amount DESC. If no results, SELECT * FROM search_results ORDER BY clicks DESC. 2. If y > x, where x = ((purchase price of company from #1) / 3) and y = (amount of payout) or y = (clicks * 1000) in #1 3. Clone MVP, remove company from adsense_payouts and search_results

paulpauper 7y ago

You mean the content created and owned by the actual song writers or labels.

nikanj 7y ago

Next: 1) Google will apologize and remove genius.com from results 2) Traffic at genius will plummet 3) Genius will beg for mercy, and give Google full rights to all material

dewey 7y ago
That already happened once a couple of years ago for their blog spam SEO hack.

crazygringo 7y ago

> Genius said it found more than 100 examples of songs on Google that came from its site. > In a statement, Google said the lyrics on its site, which pop up in little search-result squares called “information panels,” are licensed from partners, not created by Google... In 2016, Google partnered with LyricFind Inc., a Canadian company that secures deals with music publishers allowing companies such as Google to publish lyrics online. So Google is properly licensing lyrics from song publishers and uses a third party to provide the lyrics, and somehow that third party wound up with more than a "hundred" -- not a million but a hundred -- that were copy-pasted from Genius at some point. Except for the apostrophes thing being clever, this sounds like a complete non-issue? That Genius's issue is not with Google but the company they source from... AND that they'd have to prove a wholesale systematic copying (closer to millions of songs) as opposed to it being e.g. some rando employee who got lazy and took a shortcut one week?

xenator 7y ago
The same pattern you can use for any big company. Make some shady proxy one-day living pocket company, sign contract, let'em steal others IP, you are clear, ..., PROFIT! I don't think that company even should know how their content will be used. For example if they just offer web-scraping service and provide raw data? For example for statistical analizes. And then Google publish this data as is on SERP and make money on adv. How is responsible in this case?
lettergram 7y ago
> "hundred" -- not a million but a hundred -- that were copy-pasted from Genius at some point. To be fair, they can probably only confirm incorrect lyrics. Correct ones would look the exact same. Presumably, the vast majority are correct
- smt88 7y ago
  > Correct ones would look the exact same. Unlikely. Official lyrics (printed in CD inserts, for example) often have punctuation mistakes, or they have no punctuation at all. Unofficial lyrics can have the same words while still differing in punctuation, line breaks, capitalization, or spelling (since most languages have multiple ways to spell the same word -- color/colour, for example). All the tiny variations could easily create a distinct fingerprint for each source of lyrics.

paul7986 7y ago

No way that’s true...Google Does No Evil...........that’s their mantra!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

vonseel 7y ago

I have noticed the opposite, that Googles lyrics are usually inaccurate and I assumed they were lifted from alternative sources than Genius. Just my experience, though.

wmil 7y ago
It probably isn't Google though. They say they license and receive content from LyricFind Inc, which probably takes care of all the legal issues. I'm guess that LyricFind got lawyers from all the major labels to sign licenses, but no one ever actually bothered to get the lyrics for them. Management probably told their tech people to just get them from wherever.

p1necone 7y ago

This seems pretty inane to me. Rightsholder licenses lyrics to both Genius and Google, Google copies lyric text from Genius. Seems like Genius shouldn't have a leg to stand on? (And even if they were technically right, they're wasting courts time and not actually achieving anything useful).

wyqydsyq 7y ago

How is Genius.com in a position to make any claims on "its content" when said content is entirely the copyrighted works of various artists? Just because the lyrics may be entered by users has no bearing on the fact that the lyrics are copyrighted works and that Genius.com doesn't own or have any rights to them. Just like doing a cover of another band's song doesn't mean you now own the song, reproducing and distributing a song's lyrics doesn't mean you now own the lyrics.

Grue3 7y ago

Anecdotal, but I was looking up lyrics for a song, and AZLyrics and Genius had slightly different lyrics. Google used AZLyrics version.

dwringer 7y ago
My experience has been the same, not once but many times. Often I consider the lyrics on Genius to be more accurate, to the point where I am in the habit of bypassing whatever Google tells me the lyrics are and searching directly for the former.

amaccuish 7y ago

The wikipedia info panels are particulary annoying, it seems pretty hard to find that actual link to the wiki article and I think they remove the wiki article from the main search results since it's now at the side.

charlesism 7y ago

“It’s not fair! We stole these lyrics first”

yawz 7y ago

LyricFind Offers Corrections to Inaccuracies in Wall Street Journal Reporting https://lyricfind.com/index.php?id=316 https://lyricfind.com/index.php?id=316