5 ms·

That's a trick question. Trick questions are bad because they test interviewing skill and not programming skill. It's a trick question because you want the int

That's a trick question. Trick questions are bad because they test interviewing skill and not programming skill. It's a trick question because you want the interviewee to answer something different (I don't know) than what you're asking them to answer. Confident applicants might feel up to saying they don't know, but nervous people who are very self conscious in an interview setting may respond completely differently than they would if they were asked the same question on the job by the coffee machine. Their mind would be racing "oh no, I'll look so bad" and they'd go into full panic mode. Don't ask trick questions. It's smug and useless. Plus you'll be missing out on great smart colleagues who happen to stress out about job interviews.

Stronico 7y ago
Saying "I don't know" is an accurate answer. The ability to ask meaningful questions is a big part of any programming job. And (in my opinion) harder to learn than any particular technology.
- mondoshawan 7y ago
  Saying "I don't know" like this in an interview scenario is nearly impossible for most candidates and only serves to humiliate rather than prove their abilities. If you want to see them ask questions, give a half explanation of the problem at hand instead and guide them to ask more detailed technical questions. Be an ally, not an adversary, and you will find talent better than if you push.
  - notyourwork 7y ago
    It’s really not - as someone whose done 100s of interviews for a brand name tech company I don’t see this as a problem. The goal being for candidate to indicate their lack of knowledge but work through it. As an engineer you will encounter problems you don’t know how to solve. Pretending you know and bullshitting is a red flag.
    - mondoshawan 7y ago
      There are hundreds of ways to do this without intentionally tilting the candidate into failure later. As an interviewer you have absolute authority in the room -- don't abuse it and destroy the candidate.
      - notyourwork 7y ago
        I think you are misunderstanding my point by indicating that interviewer's shouldn't abuse their power. To be specific, I do a lot of things up front in an interview to help the candidate. The most important is informing them that they should treat technical exercises as a team exercise where we are teammates working together. Furthermore, I declare that there is no penalty for my assistance during the interview. The idea is for us to work together to solve a problem, my interest is in how they think and work through the problem. Furthermore, I explicitly tell them for discussion on prior experience and technical facets of interview that they are welcome to indicate they do not have an answer to my question or are unsure what's next. All of this combined creates a very pleasant experience which is an important part of my goal as an interviewer. I'm not trying to embarrass people, though I am trying to make a informed hiring decision which is a very expensive endeavor for my company. Therefore, beyond letting candidate enjoy themselves, my main focus is to ensure that I have sufficient confidence to hire or be willing to walk away due to lack of conclusive data.
  - jvreagan 7y ago
    You are proving the OPs point: they are looking for people where "I don't know" is acceptable in collaborating with others, not for people where saying "I don't know" is considered a failure or humiliating. If someone is humiliated being asked a question they don't know the answer to, then they aren't a culture fit. As Jeff Bezos says, the older he gets, the more he realizes he doesn't know. Most people have no issue with saying "I don't know." I've worked with people that can't say "I don't know" - they are incredibly toxic.
  - rifung 7y ago
    > Saying "I don't know" like this in an interview scenario is nearly impossible for most candidates and only serves to humiliate rather than prove their abilities. I don't think this is true only in interviews though. I have worked with people who can't seem to admit they don't know something and they're difficult to work with. It's completely fine if you can't do something. What's not fine is that you fail to communicate it to those around you and create false expectations. That being the case, I think it's fair to score a candidate negatively if they aren't able to say they don't know something.
  - sigstoat 7y ago
    > Saying "I don't know" like this in an interview scenario is nearly impossible for most candidates and only serves to humiliate rather than prove their abilities. with hacker news so utterly convinced that employers have literal powers of life and death over their employees, when do you expect the potential employee to regain the ability to tell their employer that they don't know? after they've quit their previous job and moved across the country? a week after that? six months? maybe after they've got some kids?
- UweSchmidt 7y ago
  Maybe you could give the critical replies to your comment some consideration. There seem to be many interviewers who abuse their temporary power over candidates by freestyling a psychological excercise, and brag about it in threads like this. In a way forcing the other party to give up with an "I don't know" is humiliating, and graciously allowing this answer doesn't make things better. You'd put yourself above the other person. Imagine you'd interview someone you truly respect, a luminary of Open Source walks in. How would you go about the interview then? I think a great interviewer can make the interview an enlightening and wholesome experience for both parties - while easily identifying the exact qualifications and the fit of the candidate.
  - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
    "I don't know" is something that developers encounter weekly, if not daily. There's nothing humiliating about acknowledging that there are things one doesn't know, whether in our daily jobs or in an interview.
  - Stronico 7y ago
    I thought I had given consideration. I do not regard "I don't know" as giving up. Giving up would be not finding the answer eventually. I certainly don't find myself "under" some other person if they know the answer to a particular technical question. As for interviewing a luminary of open source what would be the difference? I imagine they (much like everyone else) don't know lots of things and are probably comfortable saying so. Their answers to how they would go about finding an answer would probably be wonderful.
    - UweSchmidt 7y ago
      Fair enough. Of course it depends a lot on the overall tone of the interview, and as I read more I'm sure you're doing it very well.
  - NoodleIncident 7y ago
    You can call it whatever you want, but I think if a candidate would be humiliated by saying "I don't know" in an interview, that's a strong negative signal. Saying "IDK" and reading the docs, googling it, or asking for help is at least half of the job.
notyourwork 7y ago
It’s not a trick question. Saying I don’t know is a perfectly acceptable answer. The follow up should be questions to clarify or reduce complexity. I interview a lot and this is something I expect out of candidates.
jstanley 7y ago
It's not quite the same as a trick question (which I agree you should avoid). He's not looking for the interviewee to say "I don't know" to any particular question. The correct answer is a perfectly acceptable answer too. The unacceptable answer is to make up bullshit, which is precisely what he's trying to filter out.
- mondoshawan 7y ago
  In the process you are pushing the candidate to the breaking point and eliminating any confidence they may have had in their abilities. They will end up demoralized and most likely fail the following interviews if they're the nervous sort. If they're smart, they'll bid you goodbye and you end up with a black eye reputation.
  - Stronico 7y ago
    Any interview (of mine) is a conversation - they're not something you pass or fail - it's just a way for a potential employer and employee to get to know one another so they can make better decisions. Nobody won, lost, passed or failed. The interview is just there to provide more information to determine if the potential employer and employee would fit well together. If I were in an interview that was presented as a zero sum game I would walk out too.
    - Balgair 7y ago
      > Nobody won, lost, passed or failed I mean, like, yeah they did. They either got the job or they did not.
      - Stronico 7y ago
        The interview is there to provide more information about a possible relationship. Winning an interview is like winning a date (assuming you want a relationship with the other person.).
        7y ago
wool_gather 7y ago
You make a fair point, but an interview is not solely about programming skill. It's also about being a co-worker. And the question "what does this person do in X situation", where X is "they don't know the answer to something they need to know'" is highly relevant. So there may be a better way to go about it, but the parent's desire is reasonable.
- RijilV 7y ago
  The deal is when you’re interviewing me we’re _not_ co-workers. You hold all of the cards and decide my fate. A big part of interviewing candidates well is breaking down that dynamic. There are many ways of doing it - I get up on the whiteboard first and write out my problem, and stay there until they’ve explained themselves and I need to get back to my notes so I don’t forget stuff. I phrase questions like “I need help implementing this function...” or “how are we going to solve this edge case”. I don’t think either side of a tech interview is easy. The problem is only one side is evaluated.
  - wool_gather 7y ago
    > The deal is when you’re interviewing me we’re _not_ co-workers. Not yet, but the purpose of the interview is to figure out whether we should be. (And I disagree that it is one sided; this whole topic is about an interviewee's evaluation of the process.)
  - WillySchu 7y ago
    > ... The problem is only one side is evaluated. I'm not sure I agree here. Granted I work for quite a small company, so it's pretty different than working at a company with a significant reputation to help candidates make decisions. But when I interview candidates I'm very aware that they are evaluating me whilst I'm evaluating them. I actually think this is a good thing. It incentivizes me to make the interview a more pleasant experience, and perform it in such a way that it feels collaborative, like a real work situation, and not as standoffish as some interviews can be. That said, we still do ask hard technical questions solved on whiteboards or in code, and setting them up in such a way that the candidates feel comfortable asking questions on things they don't know / are unclear about is definitely challenging. To be honest, something I think we (as in the software community at large) lose sight of some times is how unique and challenging performing interviews is. We see stories like this pretty frequently, and we're used to the idea that being interviewed is a fairly distinct skill, orthogonal to what we usually perform in our day to day work life. Something that's talked about a lot less frequently (understandably, more of us are getting interviewed than performing them) is that interviewing others is also a separate skill, and one that really isn't practiced or honed enough in my opinion.
ViViDboarder 7y ago
It’s not a trick question. I am expecting them to answer the questions honestly. If they know the answer, go ahead and answer correctly. If not, don’t pretend. I don’t want to hire someone who isn’t going to admit the limits of their abilities, for whatever reason. Could be smugness or lack of confidence, either way it’s a bad signal.
- autokad 7y ago
  its a trick question, period. The question is formulated with the expectation that it cant be answered, even if there is a small chance to answer it right. its not a bad signal. to be honest its the smartest thing to do (like guessing on the GRE), especially since most people ask questions they expect the right answer too. the only bad signal I see is in you. I would wager to say, in most situations in life, don't play tricks, just ask the question you really want answered.
positivejam 7y ago
> nervous people who are very self conscious in an interview setting may respond completely differently than they would if they were asked the same question on the job by the coffee machine. This part is crucial. If an interviewee is pushed to the brink but doesn't say, "I don't know," that does not imply they will not say, "I don't know," once they've secured a position.

Stronico 7y ago

Saying "I don't know" is an accurate answer. The ability to ask meaningful questions is a big part of any programming job. And (in my opinion) harder to learn than any particular technology.

mondoshawan 7y ago
Saying "I don't know" like this in an interview scenario is nearly impossible for most candidates and only serves to humiliate rather than prove their abilities. If you want to see them ask questions, give a half explanation of the problem at hand instead and guide them to ask more detailed technical questions. Be an ally, not an adversary, and you will find talent better than if you push.
- notyourwork 7y ago
  It’s really not - as someone whose done 100s of interviews for a brand name tech company I don’t see this as a problem. The goal being for candidate to indicate their lack of knowledge but work through it. As an engineer you will encounter problems you don’t know how to solve. Pretending you know and bullshitting is a red flag.
  - mondoshawan 7y ago
    There are hundreds of ways to do this without intentionally tilting the candidate into failure later. As an interviewer you have absolute authority in the room -- don't abuse it and destroy the candidate.
    - notyourwork 7y ago
      I think you are misunderstanding my point by indicating that interviewer's shouldn't abuse their power. To be specific, I do a lot of things up front in an interview to help the candidate. The most important is informing them that they should treat technical exercises as a team exercise where we are teammates working together. Furthermore, I declare that there is no penalty for my assistance during the interview. The idea is for us to work together to solve a problem, my interest is in how they think and work through the problem. Furthermore, I explicitly tell them for discussion on prior experience and technical facets of interview that they are welcome to indicate they do not have an answer to my question or are unsure what's next. All of this combined creates a very pleasant experience which is an important part of my goal as an interviewer. I'm not trying to embarrass people, though I am trying to make a informed hiring decision which is a very expensive endeavor for my company. Therefore, beyond letting candidate enjoy themselves, my main focus is to ensure that I have sufficient confidence to hire or be willing to walk away due to lack of conclusive data.
- jvreagan 7y ago
  You are proving the OPs point: they are looking for people where "I don't know" is acceptable in collaborating with others, not for people where saying "I don't know" is considered a failure or humiliating. If someone is humiliated being asked a question they don't know the answer to, then they aren't a culture fit. As Jeff Bezos says, the older he gets, the more he realizes he doesn't know. Most people have no issue with saying "I don't know." I've worked with people that can't say "I don't know" - they are incredibly toxic.
- rifung 7y ago
  > Saying "I don't know" like this in an interview scenario is nearly impossible for most candidates and only serves to humiliate rather than prove their abilities. I don't think this is true only in interviews though. I have worked with people who can't seem to admit they don't know something and they're difficult to work with. It's completely fine if you can't do something. What's not fine is that you fail to communicate it to those around you and create false expectations. That being the case, I think it's fair to score a candidate negatively if they aren't able to say they don't know something.
- sigstoat 7y ago
  > Saying "I don't know" like this in an interview scenario is nearly impossible for most candidates and only serves to humiliate rather than prove their abilities. with hacker news so utterly convinced that employers have literal powers of life and death over their employees, when do you expect the potential employee to regain the ability to tell their employer that they don't know? after they've quit their previous job and moved across the country? a week after that? six months? maybe after they've got some kids?
UweSchmidt 7y ago
Maybe you could give the critical replies to your comment some consideration. There seem to be many interviewers who abuse their temporary power over candidates by freestyling a psychological excercise, and brag about it in threads like this. In a way forcing the other party to give up with an "I don't know" is humiliating, and graciously allowing this answer doesn't make things better. You'd put yourself above the other person. Imagine you'd interview someone you truly respect, a luminary of Open Source walks in. How would you go about the interview then? I think a great interviewer can make the interview an enlightening and wholesome experience for both parties - while easily identifying the exact qualifications and the fit of the candidate.
- ThrowawayR2 7y ago
  "I don't know" is something that developers encounter weekly, if not daily. There's nothing humiliating about acknowledging that there are things one doesn't know, whether in our daily jobs or in an interview.
- Stronico 7y ago
  I thought I had given consideration. I do not regard "I don't know" as giving up. Giving up would be not finding the answer eventually. I certainly don't find myself "under" some other person if they know the answer to a particular technical question. As for interviewing a luminary of open source what would be the difference? I imagine they (much like everyone else) don't know lots of things and are probably comfortable saying so. Their answers to how they would go about finding an answer would probably be wonderful.
  - UweSchmidt 7y ago
    Fair enough. Of course it depends a lot on the overall tone of the interview, and as I read more I'm sure you're doing it very well.
- NoodleIncident 7y ago
  You can call it whatever you want, but I think if a candidate would be humiliated by saying "I don't know" in an interview, that's a strong negative signal. Saying "IDK" and reading the docs, googling it, or asking for help is at least half of the job.

notyourwork 7y ago

It’s not a trick question. Saying I don’t know is a perfectly acceptable answer. The follow up should be questions to clarify or reduce complexity. I interview a lot and this is something I expect out of candidates.

jstanley 7y ago

It's not quite the same as a trick question (which I agree you should avoid). He's not looking for the interviewee to say "I don't know" to any particular question. The correct answer is a perfectly acceptable answer too. The unacceptable answer is to make up bullshit, which is precisely what he's trying to filter out.

mondoshawan 7y ago
In the process you are pushing the candidate to the breaking point and eliminating any confidence they may have had in their abilities. They will end up demoralized and most likely fail the following interviews if they're the nervous sort. If they're smart, they'll bid you goodbye and you end up with a black eye reputation.
- Stronico 7y ago
  Any interview (of mine) is a conversation - they're not something you pass or fail - it's just a way for a potential employer and employee to get to know one another so they can make better decisions. Nobody won, lost, passed or failed. The interview is just there to provide more information to determine if the potential employer and employee would fit well together. If I were in an interview that was presented as a zero sum game I would walk out too.
  - Balgair 7y ago
    > Nobody won, lost, passed or failed I mean, like, yeah they did. They either got the job or they did not.
    - Stronico 7y ago
      The interview is there to provide more information about a possible relationship. Winning an interview is like winning a date (assuming you want a relationship with the other person.).
      - 7y ago

wool_gather 7y ago

You make a fair point, but an interview is not solely about programming skill. It's also about being a co-worker. And the question "what does this person do in X situation", where X is "they don't know the answer to something they need to know'" is highly relevant. So there may be a better way to go about it, but the parent's desire is reasonable.

RijilV 7y ago
The deal is when you’re interviewing me we’re _not_ co-workers. You hold all of the cards and decide my fate. A big part of interviewing candidates well is breaking down that dynamic. There are many ways of doing it - I get up on the whiteboard first and write out my problem, and stay there until they’ve explained themselves and I need to get back to my notes so I don’t forget stuff. I phrase questions like “I need help implementing this function...” or “how are we going to solve this edge case”. I don’t think either side of a tech interview is easy. The problem is only one side is evaluated.
- wool_gather 7y ago
  > The deal is when you’re interviewing me we’re _not_ co-workers. Not yet, but the purpose of the interview is to figure out whether we should be. (And I disagree that it is one sided; this whole topic is about an interviewee's evaluation of the process.)
- WillySchu 7y ago
  > ... The problem is only one side is evaluated. I'm not sure I agree here. Granted I work for quite a small company, so it's pretty different than working at a company with a significant reputation to help candidates make decisions. But when I interview candidates I'm very aware that they are evaluating me whilst I'm evaluating them. I actually think this is a good thing. It incentivizes me to make the interview a more pleasant experience, and perform it in such a way that it feels collaborative, like a real work situation, and not as standoffish as some interviews can be. That said, we still do ask hard technical questions solved on whiteboards or in code, and setting them up in such a way that the candidates feel comfortable asking questions on things they don't know / are unclear about is definitely challenging. To be honest, something I think we (as in the software community at large) lose sight of some times is how unique and challenging performing interviews is. We see stories like this pretty frequently, and we're used to the idea that being interviewed is a fairly distinct skill, orthogonal to what we usually perform in our day to day work life. Something that's talked about a lot less frequently (understandably, more of us are getting interviewed than performing them) is that interviewing others is also a separate skill, and one that really isn't practiced or honed enough in my opinion.

ViViDboarder 7y ago

It’s not a trick question. I am expecting them to answer the questions honestly. If they know the answer, go ahead and answer correctly. If not, don’t pretend. I don’t want to hire someone who isn’t going to admit the limits of their abilities, for whatever reason. Could be smugness or lack of confidence, either way it’s a bad signal.

autokad 7y ago
its a trick question, period. The question is formulated with the expectation that it cant be answered, even if there is a small chance to answer it right. its not a bad signal. to be honest its the smartest thing to do (like guessing on the GRE), especially since most people ask questions they expect the right answer too. the only bad signal I see is in you. I would wager to say, in most situations in life, don't play tricks, just ask the question you really want answered.

positivejam 7y ago

> nervous people who are very self conscious in an interview setting may respond completely differently than they would if they were asked the same question on the job by the coffee machine. This part is crucial. If an interviewee is pushed to the brink but doesn't say, "I don't know," that does not imply they will not say, "I don't know," once they've secured a position.