19 ms·

Magnesium and major depression (2011)

256 points by known 7y ago

aik 7y ago
For anyone here that takes magnesium for sleep, why do you think it works for you? It works wonders for my sleep but I’ve never met anyone that shares that view.
- Devmailo 7y ago
  Imagine cramps waking you up. Magnesium should prevent them if you have deficiency.
- petilon 7y ago
  The cells in our body depend on two essential minerals for normal function: Calcium and magnesium. Cells go into ON state when calcium goes in, and OFF state when calcium goes out. Calcium doesn't go out on its own: magnesium has to go in and displace the calcium. When you are low on magnesium, cells can't go into OFF state. When that happens your muscles become stiff and you need massages, and your brain can't turn off and you can't sleep.
BadassFractal 7y ago
Poor man's TLDR: we're not sure yet, but consider taking magnesium supplementation to help with or prevent MD. The downside of light Mg supplementation seems trivial, and the upside could be strong.
- philshem 7y ago
  Magnesium also promotes muscle relaxation and “calms the brain”. Here in Switzerland it’s commonly taken over-the-counter. I had never heard of it as a supplement in the US.
  - WoodenChair 7y ago
    A supplement in the US is over the counter.
- Tharkun 7y ago
  Mg deficiency is also implicated in some cardiac arrhythmias and supplementation has been shown to help.
  - jerf 7y ago
    That's why I'm taking it. I have an absorption disease (Celiac) and I was having terrible cardiac issues at 38 (and with a minor family history of heart issues at older age, but nothing like what I was having). Magnesium is one of the things it has taken to straighten it out. If you have heart issues, you may have to try to balance magnesium and potassium. If the problem is a deficiency, this is a rather annoyingly difficult balancing act to pull off, because as per the comments in the beginning of Gwern's article about magnesium, magnesium has a very slow-moving component to it, where it depletes slowly but also only fills slowly, and a fast moving component that responds relatively quickly, and based on my experience, the heart's use of magnesium seems to be related to both. Potassium, by contrast, appears to take nearly instant effect. So you're balancing something you can't see that changes over the course of months or years against a nutritional input that is instant. This is not easy. Several times I've settled on a dosing schedule that seemed to work for me, but had to be changed after a couple of months as the slow-pool magnesium (I hope) continued to improve. I've actually learned the difference in my body's reactions to a potassium deficiency (a tightness in the chest) vs. a magnesium deficiency (restless legs, heart that may not be "racing" but is not slowing down for sleep properly). YMMV; n=1, etc.
    - fxj 7y ago
      I have HOCM and afib and Mg and potassium helps wonder with the extrasystoles. I also take taurine against the extrasystoles in combination with Mg and K in the evening before going to bed and I can sleep much better.
      - jerf 7y ago
        Yeah, I didn't go into the whole spiel as off-topic (and this comment isn't the whole spiel, either...), but taurine for heart issues seems like something that should just be tried by almost anyone experiencing them. It has basically no overdose risk, as it's an amino acid everybody consumes anyhow, and there are many papers showing it can help. So, very cheap, basically no downside, possible significant upside, abundant scientific support. It was one of the first things I tried that had an immediate, positive effect. Digging into this sort of thing did convince me there's a lot of truth in the idea that you can't get the medical world very interested in solutions that don't come with a patentable treatment. There's a lot of papers I've found about how much heart stuff can be treated by correcting various deficiencies, such as taurine, or magnesium & potassium, but it all seems very under-utilized by the medical community themselves. Example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868 (Incidentally, just as that abstract says, the literature suggest adding L-Arginine to your taurine may also be beneficial as they work together. If you're fine now, I wouldn't suggest rocking the boat, but if it's only 80-90% effective or something, you may want to consider adding that as there's a decent chance it could take you to 100%.)
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  It's also commonly recommended in the weightlifting world to aid in muscle recovery.
GrumpyNl 7y ago
Take some hart burn medicine and you get all the magnesium you can handle.
- moh_maya 7y ago
  Heart burn meds are often Mg Oxide or sulfate, which isn't that well absorbed. [1,2] for anxiety and depression, Mg Citrate works well, as does Mg Glycinate [3] Just a heads up. [1]http://www.kumc.edu/school-of-medicine/family-medicine/integrative-health/health-topics/the-benefits-of-magnesium.html http://www.kumc.edu/school-of-medicine/family-medicine/integ... [2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2407766/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2407766/ [3] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201106/magnesium-and-the-brain-the-original-chill-pill https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychia...
  - dageshi 7y ago
    I think it might not be absorbed as well, but often there is just a lot more magnesium in oxide than glycinate. So even though it absorbs worse more actually ends up being absorbed in the end. Personally I've felt a more potent reaction from oxide than glycinate, possibly for that reason.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
idiot900 7y ago
This smells like a crackpot. The first author’s affiliation is his own “research institute”: https://m.george-eby-research.com/ https://m.george-eby-research.com/ and they claim a simple, somehow overlooked solution to a difficult problem, citing flimsy and ancient studies.
- lettergram 7y ago
  I generally agree with you, but lithium is also used to treat bi-polar disorder (among others) and it was discovered by accident. People used to recommend it without any data supporting it. I suspect this is how most treatments start
  - tokai 7y ago
    >lithium [...] was discovered by accident. No it was not. Development of treatment with lithium was very much a part of psychiatric normal science.
    - reneberlin 7y ago
      I'm sorry - you are wrong. John Cade found the effects - with animals - by accident. And he was widely ignored because of his lack of fundamental, industry-wide standards for exploration. Neverless: lithium is now the way to go with clinical treatment of a wide range of disorders and reducing self-harm and suicide rates. The problem so far: nobody is sure why it works. The dose is worth mentioning. Clients receive a dose of 200-500mg per day. The lithium you can buy without prescription contains around 1mg. Effects are still there, but the dose on the subjects of matter are quite high and can be toxic if done wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication)
      - tokai 7y ago
        Development of lithium treatment involved a lot more than John Cade's accident. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bdi.12739 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bdi.12739
benjaminwootton 7y ago
I'm quite skeptical on supplements, but I have to say that Magnesium helps me sleep like a baby and feel much more relaxed generally.
- aik 7y ago
  I’m also one where magnesium has almost magical positive effects on my sleep. When I started getting some anxiety several years ago, taking magnesium before bed was the only thing that kept me both asleep at night and sleeping deeply. I still take it often to get deeper sleep. I’ve always taken the citrate type. Do you know why Mg helps you so much?
- taf2 7y ago
  Whether it’s true or a placebo- sign me up :)
  - kingkawn 7y ago
    In the treatment of subjective mood the distinction between ‘true’ and ‘placebo’ vanishes
- seishan 7y ago
  Same here. Taking magnesium L-threonate and melatonin before going to sleep has improved my sleep quality like nothing else.
- n1000 7y ago
  I recently realised that Mg is a reliable way for me to stop teeth grinding in my sleep.
  - bradhoffman 7y ago
    I am interested in hearing more. Did you try Mg with the intent of grinding your teeth less?
    - n1000 7y ago
shaki-dora 7y ago
Needs a [2011] and some scepticism: Many people have tried Magnesium because it is cheap and available without prescription. If it were as effective as "success in 220 out of 250 cases" claims, that would show up. The 220 of 250 claim also doesn't fit with "as effective as the tricyclic antidepressant imipramine". No antidepressant is 90% effective.
- yetihehe 7y ago
  Most cheap magnesium is magnesium carbonate which is least effective and causes diarrhoea (should be taken with calcium to prevent that). Magnesium aspartate is sometimes prescribed as "working one", but can be neurotoxic (according to this paper).
  - gerbilly 7y ago
    I take magnesium bis-glycinate, it's well absorbed and has no serious side effects.
    - yetihehe 7y ago
      Me too. I haven't tried other versions which are recommended by this paper, but I can recommend bis-glycinate. I tried carbonate and it didn't work for me. Recommended dose is 150mg/day, but I've found I need even 300mg/day (heavy cofee drinker).
      - fxj 7y ago
        I take Mg Taurate against extrasystoles and it works very well for me. I also tried Mg Citrate together with Carnitine which enhances the Mg uptake in the gut. Mg Carbonate or Oxide are hardly soluble and also basic which makes it not very digestable.
    - phkahler 7y ago
      Glycine on it's own is also a thing. It tastes sweet so you can add it to a drink or food without problem.
mboto 7y ago
I have found that taking Magnesium is like turning a switch on in my head and I'm suddenly happy again. I don't get upset or angry in the same way, I'm more patient and my thoughts are not obsessive. Magnesium is best taken with calcium and vitamin D as both are used in the uptake of magnesium. I have found that processed foods, alcohol, caffeine and sugar all make me worse, but magnesium gives me the will power to change that lifestyle that caused the problem in the first place. I don't know about quack studies but for the cheap price and quick turnaround (3 days for small effect, 2 week for a large scale shift) it's a simple thing to try.
- ralphstodomingo 7y ago
  What form are you taking them?
  - ddorian43 7y ago
    Glycinate is ~most used/benefit/cost I think (i do). There's also threonate which is in a weird state with effects,withdrawals,price etc. I have some and still haven't tried it.
    - wolco 7y ago
      Glycinate seems to absorb well. 1/2 a capsule seems to do wonders anymore too tired/nervous
      - ddorian43 7y ago
        You have to speak in miligrams.
- digdugdirk 7y ago
  What is your dosage and form for the supplements you mentioned?
  - user17843 7y ago
kmmlng 7y ago
I once tried supplementing magnesium while in the midst of moderate depression. Interestingly enough, the effect was not relief, but rather major, absolutely crushing depression (i.e. cannot get out of bed all day depression). I went back to moderate depression after stopping the supplementation and a subsequent second attempt brought back the major depression. By that point I gave up on the whole thing. Anyone have a similar experience or maybe some insight that might explain this?
- sound1 7y ago
  I didn't have that but it sure made me extra sleepy during the day when I took too much initially. After reducing the dose it was fine.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  There are many kinds of depression all shoveled into the one diagnosis. It's as if malaria, flu, bacterial meningitis, and every other infection were called "ague". (They were, once.) The only way we know to tell one from another is by what med helps, if any. If none do, it's "non-responsive depression" or some other catch-all. Depression, like schizophrenia and a host of other DSM diagnoses are the DSM's equivalents to "wastebasket taxa" in taxonomy. People insisting that randomized controlled trials ("RCTs") prove that depression meds, and other psychiatric meds, don't work demonstrate their ignorance of the major failure mode of RCTs: unreliable diagnosis. Given that last, the RCT tells you nothing, positive or negative, absent very careful, detailed deconstruction of individual outcomes.
- wolco 7y ago
  Two thoughts GI changes / issues You don't have enough vit-d to bind with
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  maybe some insight that might explain this? Some thoughts: 1. You may have taken a form of supplement you don't tolerate well. I have trouble with sulfur. A lot of iron supplements are sulfur based. They cause negative side effects for me. 2. In order to be properly absorbed, magnesium needs to be taken with some other things, like calcium, vitamin D and vitamin K. Maybe you weren't absorbing it well because you weren't taking it with these other things. 3. Maybe you have some unidentified genetic quirk that impacts the processing of magnesium. 4. A nutritional approach to addressing health issues is a case of "Things get worse before they get better." A lot of people use the term "healing crisis" to describe this process. If you think you have never heard of such, think again. The best known form of this phenomenon is drug withdrawal. 5. You aren't magnesium deficient, so you were actually causing yourself an overdose of magnesium. There is some other explanation for your depression. Magnesium deficiency is not it.
sfjailbird 7y ago
I take magnesium in the form of trace mineral drops. These are de-salted sea water deposits. Besides magnesium they contain other rare trace minerals which would otherwise be difficult to obtain, particularly lithium which has quite strong evidence of mellowing mood. The liquid form leads me to believe they absorb well but not sure if that's actually true. Edit to say I believe these drops have reduced my anxiety and improved relaxation. If nothing else I sleep better due to the mg (no more Jimmy legs).
- peteradio 7y ago
  Where do you find such things?
  - ehosca 7y ago
    https://www.amazon.com/Trace-Minerals-Research-Concentrace-Mineral/dp/B000AMUWLK?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Trace-Minerals-Research-Concentrace-M...
    - Charybdis 7y ago
      I've personally had great success with this particular product. At the end of a long day of coding, when my brain seems "burnt out"/fuzzy, 20-30 drops of this in a glass of water has an almost-immediate and noticeable impact (most of the time).
- ry_ry 7y ago
  Does the body effectively absorb trace amounts of minerals? Edit. I'm not implying any homeopathy antics, am genuinely curious.
n1000 7y ago
There are different forms to take Mg and they seem to come with different effects and side effects. It may take a while to find one that works.
- koboll 7y ago
  Tried it briefly and then quit after I realized it was causing excruciating chest pain. Would be nice to have stayed on it to realize the mood effects, but not even close to worth it for me.
dade_ 7y ago
An excuse to use too much maple syrup! https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5602/2 https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5602/2
- opportune 7y ago
  I see lots of manganese, but you would need to be consuming truly absurd amounts of syrup for the magnesium in maple syrup to amount to much. It says it has 11% of your DV in a cup, which is also 840kcal of mostly sugar
- thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
  as the other comment stated, there isn't much magnesium in maple syrup. Magnesium is not the same thing as manganese. Furthermore manganese is abundantly available in numerous foods. So much so, that it's extremely unlikely that you need more of it.
less_penguiny 7y ago
FWIW Gwern has done some careful self-experiments on magnesium supplementation, finding it wasn't all rosy: https://www.gwern.net/nootropics/Magnesium https://www.gwern.net/nootropics/Magnesium
- aik 7y ago
  Magnesium truly does wonders for my sleep but every single person I’ve recommended it to has not had similar results. Like many things I’m sure there’s a significant difference depending on your biochemistry.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    > Like many things I’m sure there’s a significant difference depending on your biochemistry. ...and placebo effect.
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      ESPECIALLY for something that's so delicate as sleep.
    - firethief 7y ago
      Practically speaking, it doesn't matter how much the effects are mediated by the placebo response; whatever helps you sleep at night.
  - hiram112 7y ago
    What were your initial sleep issues and how does MG help? Also, do you take it right before bed or is it something that just builds up in increasing effectiveness after taking it daily for weeks / months?
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  It's a long read with a lot of data and can be hard to make sense of. Here is the TLDR: Conclusion The interpretation which seems to best resolve everything I know about magnesium with the data from my experiment is that magnesium supplementation does indeed help me a large amount, but I was taking way too much.
marban 7y ago
I'm a cardio addict and do 250mg liquid Citrate and 200mg of Bisglycinate before sleep. Otherwise restless legs syndrome would kick in badly during the night. Sometimes adding 1.000mg of Gaba also helps with recovery and falling asleep. Just make sure to stay away from cheap Mg Oxide since bio-availability is somewhere in the 4% range and usually comes in Multi-anything pills.
- icxa 7y ago
  Someone recommended magnesium to help with my migraines (turns out it was an eye imbalance), so it's been sitting in a drawer but I also have a hard time staying asleep, and am wondering if I should crack it back out. I have some stuff called "Natural Vitality" and it is magnesium carbonate 325mg, does this sound decent to you?
  - marban 7y ago
    I've never seen Mg Carbonate in a sport supplement but I usually look for the highest bio-availability and the least laxative effect. Hence, Bisglycinate is my best choice. Usually comes in pills and rarely also (expensive) in liquid shots w/ sweeteners.
  - joncrane 7y ago
    I've found that the Citrate works best for me. I don't want to quote a brand but it's a well-known brand that's found in every store in my area that sells vitamins as well as online.
- bitL 7y ago
  I concur with GABA, and for me also sauna works. Mg only together with Ca/D.
- beagle3 7y ago
  If you are still experimenting .... for my RLS, it turned out that B3=Niacin is very helpful, even after onset; And also sufficient iron. When I take iron in the morning and B3 whenever (morning/day), I don't get RLS. And important: if you do experiment, I found that only "real" flush-causing B3 works; Not niacinamide/nicotineamide, which apparently has some of the (many) benefits of niacin, though no RLS relief (or flushing). And especially not inositol-hexanicotinate, which I have not found a single reference describing any useful property of (but still gets sold as B3).
koboll 7y ago
>Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined grains, in the Western world, harming the brain and causing mood disorders. This seems to be the case with many such nutrients. I almost wonder if the most effective solution isn't a medical approach but a medically-informed, government-led incentive program to convince food manufacturers to reintroduce the essential nutrients they strip out of food.
- icxa 7y ago
  When the US government is in charge of feeding people healthy foods, they came up with the now defunct "Food Pyramid" and school lunch, which featured classic gems like "government cheese", "square pizza" and my favorite, mystery meat "salisbury steak"
  - ryanmercer 7y ago
    Woah woah woah, I miss rectangle pizza and 'country fried steak' (maybe decomposing cardboard and ground shoe leather?). It may not have been food but it tasted good.
    - icxa 7y ago
      Of course it tasted good! Those food additive and chemical plants in NJ can do wonders to stale, ammonia-washed meats to trick our brains into thinking what we are eating tastes good! I still indulge in some fast food pink goop chicken nuggets from time to time. With enough sugar-filled "barbecue" sauce, anything can taste good!
  - maroonblazer 7y ago
    But weren't they simply following the lead of the most widely accepted science at the time? As science has learned more the government recommendations have evolved as well, albeit perhaps not as rapidly or comprehensively as they could.
    - Conjoiner 7y ago
petercooper 7y ago
I can't speak for depression, but I was suffering from muscle spasms and tremors last year (both external and internal). Magnesium was suggested, I now take two a day and they have almost entirely dissipated. It certainly wouldn't surprise me that the presence or lack of such substances could have significant effects upon the brain too though I have noticed no changes in that regard.
- wrnr 7y ago
  Same thing here. last year I had an almost constant spasm in my right eyelid, after a cure of magnesium it disappeared. I did not find that it altered my mood, I just happy to be relieved from the spasm.
wiggler00m 7y ago
Why supplement magnesium instead of getting it from dietary sources?
- anonu 7y ago
  You didnt read the article. From the article: > Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined grains, in the Western world,
  - wiggler00m 7y ago
    "Dietary magnesium intake has steadily declined over the preceding century, due to...(b) making dietary choices low in magnesium-rich foods such as whole grains, rice and wheat bran, nuts, seeds, chocolate, peanuts, peanut butter and green leafy vegetables..." If the root cause is insufficient dietary magnesium -- due to poor dietary choices -- eating foods that are rich in magnesium, and cutting out refined foods, might be a good start. It would have other benefits, too. I don't like to see people taking tons of supplements whilst eating poorly.
  - cmbuck 7y ago
    You seem to be extrapolating that since refined grains do not contain Mg, no foods do. This is not the case. OP can eat other foods instead of processed grains to obtain Mg.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  If you are self-experimenting to figure out if X nutrient makes a difference, supplements are vastly easier to work with. Dietary changes are far, far more complex and introduce many confounding factors. If you establish that, yea, verily, magnesium helps, dietary changes to make sure you get enough magnesium can make sense. I used to take about $300/month worth of supplements of various sorts. I no longer do so and haven't for years. I just note that "Based on x, I need more of thus and such." and tailor my diet to get what I need.
sapilla 7y ago
I found CBD to provide temporary relief - I think my depression was inflammation related. The world is still dark and compressed but also comfortable, like the dark corners fill with algae and the ground with grass. What ended up working was improving my oral posture and articulation using ortothropics and self-developed speech exercises (the important part is having designed the exercises yourself). Suddenly it's vastly easier to maintain correct spinal alignment and breathing. Depression is just an emotion again. I supplement fish oil, gradeschool-tier mathematics and meditation, from Vigyan Bhairava Tantra.
- mnky9800n 7y ago
  wtf?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- Genetikl33 7y ago
  Can you elaborate on oral posture and articulation? I have a major snoring (apnea) and breathing issue due to dentistry mistakes (taking out teeth when I should not have as a kid) and my face caved in which compresses my breathing. This is my theory at least. I am curious because this is the first time I hear about the concepts you brought up
  - sapilla 7y ago
    The most important thing is to have the tip of your tongue (almost) touching your teeth and then gradually increasing the amount of tongue-to-roof-of-mouth surface, beginning it the front - your current limit is where it blocks nasal breathing. This stimulates horizontal (forwards) bone development vs. vertical (downwards) development. A "drill" I can recommend is writing out words a defined number of times (pick a number you like between 10 and 100), as you write also pronounce them without letting your tongue lose contact with the roof of your mouth. This may feel very unnatural at first. If you don't like the result just recycle the paper. There's also the habit of sucking or pulling in your tongue - don't do that. I think it causes jaw clenching. If you want a fast way to get rid of that, invent metaphors for it and then watch yourself do it automatically in social interactions. Also check out ortothropics, it's the emerging science of facial development through oral posture. They have a large collection of instructional material on YouTube.
stevenmays 7y ago
Magnesium supplementation changed my life. Better sleep, faster recovery from work outs, better more stable moods
- aNoob7000 7y ago
  How much are you taking daily?
kevstev 7y ago
I started taking magnesium supplements about 9 months ago, not for any depression issues, but more for muscle issues. I had a weird leg muscle injury a few years ago that I never really got a proper diagnosis for that happened when doing some light hiking. In doing my own research on that, a condition similar to my symptoms came up, and one of the causes was a magnesium deficiency. I had a few other minor ailments come up, and I have been biking to work for the last few years, and noticed that my recovery time is significantly longer. All of these things cited magnesium as a significant player, so I bought some supplements. Anyway, I take about 200mg a day, for about the last 6 months or so, and I can not say I have felt any noticeable improvement. This is obviously just a single data point, but even with some specific symptoms that pointed to an Mg deficiency, I didn't see an improvement. If you feel this is some type of magic solution, you should temper your expectations.
- NPMaxwell 7y ago
  Great idea to get a work up and find out about any deficiencies in the mix of stuff in your blood.
- batter 7y ago
  If you're playing with magnesium/calcium i think boron should be included as well. It will allow you to utilize magnesium/calcium.
  - arkades 7y ago
    Do you have any sources for that statement? I haven’t read anything to that effect, and I’d be interested in finding out more.
- SirensOfTitan 7y ago
  What kind of Magnesium are you taking? There’s a huge differential of bioavailability of different magnesium types.
  - entangledqubit 7y ago
MichaelMoser123 7y ago
Pink Himalayan salt is supposed to be rich in magnesium. I wonder if it contains enough magnesium to make a difference with depression.
NPMaxwell 7y ago
I love this: "The reasons for these findings are not quite clear, but inadequate dietary Mg is prevalent in America and is the most likely cause." Ah, to be publishing in a book, not a journal. And to know that your reviewers are like-minded magnesium lovers. Imagine submitting an article to something like Junior Forensics, the journal of high school debate. You could include something like, "All the factors that lead to success in life are hard to account for; participation in debate is the most influential."
Genetikl33 7y ago
Remember that it depends what type of Magnesium you take. Not all are created equal. I recommend Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium. Since taking that one for many years, digestive issues massively improved with slight improvements in sleep and overall mood.
- tomhoward 7y ago
  Another one that may work better for people: magnesium malate. For some people it can be more easily absorbed than other forms, and the malic acid (which occurs naturally in apples and other fruits) can support the Kreb's cycle that produces mitochondrial energy (which is also linked to mood and general healthy functioning of the body).
opportune 7y ago
The first author has a publication called "zinc lozenges as a cure for the common cold" here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906491 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906491 and given that the author has his own "research institute" I'm highly skeptical of this guy's ability to do science. Seems like some kind of crackpot I mean seriously look at this website: https://m.george-eby-research.com/app/welcome/5310242/36/ https://m.george-eby-research.com/app/welcome/5310242/36/
- okmokmz 7y ago
  Wow, that website has a lot of red flags. The second line alone, "this is a multi-gigabit sized site," is enough to make me doubt the info on that page. This NYT article from 1995 says he is a "city planner turned self-educated pharmacologist" so I'd be surprised if any of his "research" was properly done or reached accurate conclusions https://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/29/business/patents-751395.html https://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/29/business/patents-751395.h...
- billman 7y ago
  FYI, The title of his paper is "Zinc lozenges as cure for the common cold – A review and hypothesis". I haven't read it, but the title seems reasonable.
  - opportune 7y ago
    In the publicly visible abstract it says: " Zinc lozenges slowly dissolving in the mouth over a 20-30 min period releasing adequate iZn (18 mg) used each 2h are hypothesized to shorten common colds by 6-7 days, which is a cure for the common cold."
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    There is plenty of evidence that zinc has effects on the progress of rhinoviral infections. I don't know of any detailed determination why, but it seems tied up with preferential activation of certain immune system components. People who respond well to zinc treatments often report immediate dizziness after remarkably small doses, when taken as cold symptoms are emerging. They used to sell a gel that, it turned out, caused permanent loss to sense of smell if snorted (against pkg instructions, but who read those?). Now you find lozenges, which seem to work about as well.
Ice_cream_suit 7y ago
Good old fashioned crackpot science...
Nasrudith 7y ago
I have some personal experiences to share - anecdotal and not that scientific. I found it slightly helpful in my own treatment of depression. Not a miracle cure - it was suggested essentially because Proton Pump Inhibitors I am already on were known to worsen/cause it. In my case it seems to make medication a bit more effective and helped thinking a little bit. A few times when I ran out for a week or so waiting for the next bulk order to arrive it eventually caused a mild worsening of mood that went away when resumed. I don't know if I ever actually had deficiencies because needle phobia has meant avoidance such that I can only list my blood type as a question mark.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
The onset of depression has greatly increased in incidence, and it is affecting people much earlier in their lives during the late 20th century and early 21st century than before the 20th century (Meyer and Quenzar, 2005). The reasons for these findings are not quite clear, but inadequate dietary Mg is prevalent in America and is the most likely cause. There is probably a real increase in depression, coupled with a change in diagnostic habits, which has to do with the element of stigma. Lower stigma leads to a higher rate of diagnosis. Somatopsychic medical effects are very real. I've gotten very good results with addressing nutritional deficiencies as a first line of defense for issues that often present as mood or mental health issues. But I don't think you can reasonably conclude that magnesium deficiency is The explanation for increased prevalence of depression in a world that has had so many profound changes. Things are more crowded. Most people now live in cities instead of rural environments. Among other things, this means people are subjected to much noisier conditions. We have far, far better information about the world than we used to. The 24/7 news cycle is incredibly stressful, if only because most "news" is bad news. There are just so very many confounding factors, no, you can't reasonably conclude that this one singular factor is the sole explanation or primary explanation. That's ridiculous.
- balabaster 7y ago
  I would wager it's a combination of factors: 1. In general, the north american diet is disgraceful. 2. Consumerism and brainwashing people into believing that they can only be happy when they achieve X, Y or Z, does nothing for people's emotional emptiness. 3. The constant barrage of shit news, most of which is largely irrelevant to most of our lives, most of the time. 4. The constant threat of automation and off-shoring meaning that people never feel secure about their income stream unless they specifically work in an industry where their ability to generate their income stream is unrelated to these constant threats. 5. Inflation of living costs escalating at a rate beyond inflation of income. 6. The polarization making people feel isolated from one another instead of connected. Nobody can talk about anything any more without fear of offending someone, being politically incorrect, being ostracized or vilified. 7. The reported growing financial disparity where the 2% have 98% of the wealth while the 98% share the other 2% and the constant message that it's only going to get harder to be able to cross that chasm. 8. Corporations subverting politics for their own profits instead of the good of the people. The list goes on ad nauseum. I firmly believe if the world stops behaving like assholes, learns to eat properly and talks to one another to a level that find connection instead of a divide. The depression is just going to get worse and worse until suicide becomes an epidemic.
mnorton 7y ago
I have heard folks say one of the best ways to absorb magnesium is an empsom salt bath. Not sure if there is "science" on this, but hear it is one of the great benefits of a float tank.
- afo 7y ago
  Agreed. I float 2-4x/month and can confirm that I sleep way better and generally have an increase in mood. I'd highly recommend it.
kerkeslager 7y ago
There are two huge confounding issues here which make it impossible for me to conclude that Mg has an effect of depression based on the studies I've seen: 1. Magnesium may treat anxiety rather than depression. This is analogous to various SSRIs which arguably treat anxiety better than depression[1]. Anxiety and depression are highly comorbid, and both doctors and patients may be bad at differentiating between the symptoms, leading to "I feel better"-type reporting. This might mean that Mg supplementation is a good thing for depressed people because it treats their anxiety, not because it treats their depression. This alternative hypothesis is particularly compelling because magnesium deficiency has a variety of well-understood effects on muscle tension[2] which mimic physical symptoms of anxiety. 2. Magnesium is frequently supplemented concurrently with vitamin D, vitamin K, calcium, and zinc. All of these are known to be active in humans, and vitamin D in particular has been correlated with depression and seasonal affective disorder. [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/ssris-an-update/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/ssris-an-update/ (see under the bolded "fourth" comment--SSC has a bunch of posts on this topic). [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_deficiency#Diagnosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_deficiency#Diagnosis
jeffdavis 7y ago
Is Mg normally tested in blood tests? Seems like you could just read the results, and if low take supplements; if not, don't.
- cmbuck 7y ago
  > "Since 99% of Mg is intracellular, serum Mg testing of the remaining 1% found in serum will produce misleading results (Mann and Truswell, 2002) and it should not be used in future research." Elsewhere in the article they reference testing being of "negative utility"
55555 7y ago
Am I the only person that magnesium makes feel, well, dumber? Pretty much everything that's anxiolytic or GABAnergenic makes me feel dumber (along with nicely relaxed).
tomhoward 7y ago
> "Deficits of Mg may result from inadequate intake, malabsorption, or renal loss" Unless I missed it, the paper didn't consider another possible cause of magnesium deficiency: depression. I.e., the paper seems to conflate correlation with causation (i.e., magnesium deficiency may cause depression), and doesn't consider that the causality may go in the other direction: that magnesium deficiency is a physiological manifestation of depression and other types of chronic negative emotion. My experience with this is that I've worked for a long time to address chronic illness that has included conditions like depression, anxiety and chronic fatigue syndrome. One of the many things I've tried has been to substantially increase magnesium intake, both via food sources and supplements. My measured magnesium levels didn't change simply by increasing intake. What has made a difference was directly addressing the emotional and outer-life causes of my depression/anxiety. Even then it took a while, and the work/improvement is still ongoing, but it's very clear that my magnesium readings stayed low even when supplementing, and only started rising after a solid stretch of deep emotional healing work and significant improvements to life circumstances. The still-nascent and controversial topic of epigenetics may be relevant here.
- comboy 7y ago
  Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests? Less than 1% of magnesium (AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can fluctuate a lot depending on your body state. Correlation is not causation but what HN readers should remember is that most researchers are aware of that fact. So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages, especially given that results of treatment are mentioned in the abstract.
  - tomhoward 7y ago
    > Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests? No, hair tests. Which I dread talking about in forums like this as it can be a red cloth to motivated skeptics/cynics (of which I used to be one until I was blessed with the opportunity to endure this experience), but the results have been consistent with my experienced-symptoms over a long period of time (10 years so far), and the correlation with my emotional work and subjective mood/life experience has been clear. > Less than 1% of magnesium (AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can fluctuate a lot depending on your body state Yes, that's hair tests are used for this type of healing work. > So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages I wish you would take more of a good-faith approach to the discussion and point to where this is mentioned. I read over the abstract as thoroughly as I could for evidence that they properly considered this. I can see mention of the observation that magnesium levels seemed to respond to antidepressants, but it still seems to assume that the cause is physiological, and that any mood-change is an effect not a cause/influence. Nothing I can find in the abstract suggests that depression-causing-magnesium-deficiency was considered, studied and disproven, yet such possibilities are often raised in other circles, and it aligns with my own experience (and available evidence). Please understand that people like myself and a few others on HN, who have been trying to share perspectives like these for many years, get rather tired of reflexive dismissals, despite having done vast amounts research and experimentation/data-collection.
lordgrenville 7y ago
People that rely on desalinated water can become magnesium deficient. There was a study in Israel about a rise in heart attacks based on magnesium deficiency from desalination. [1] I wonder if there might be a mental health angle to this as well. [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/deficiencies-in-desalinated-water-could-lead-to-increase-in-heart-attack-deaths/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/deficiencies-in-desalinated-wa...
- taneq 7y ago
  Hmm, the city I live in has been mixing in more and more desalinated water in the last few years...
chillytoes 7y ago
I first read about magnesium supplements in a random Hacker News comment a year ago. Taking them cured my insomnia. If anyone thinks they might benefit from Mg, I definitely encourage you to do the research.
Aardwolf 7y ago
Just another mineral you need enough from to add to the list... It'd be useful to have permanent monitoring of your body to know which ones you have too much and too little from imho
debt 7y ago
I don't get it, why do I so regularly see these random solutions to depression on the homepage? Are startup founders really depressed or something? Is there a rash of suicides in this community? I don't get it. Overwhelmingly, normal-ass anti-anxiety, SSRs, and therapy is to be the best form of treatment. Pumping your body full of magnesium is a hack that falls in to the bucket of exercise or sleeping more. If you're scared about going to the doctor and getting prescribed, that's one thing. But mainlining crushed up magnesium vitamins to fix your depression is a complete lack of understanding of depression. Magnesium is not treatment. Mushrooms and Ketamine is not treatment. Get actual treatment.
thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
I hope this issue gets more attention. We're so undernourished when it comes to Magnesium. Also, closely related is Calcium. Calcium and Magnesium work closely together in the body for huge number of functions related to brain health. Of particular importance is the ratio of calcium to magnesium. A Significant portion of the population has their calcium to magnesium ratio way too high, something like 10 to 1 or higher. This is not only due to too little magnesium but also due to way too much calcium. It's not commonly known in the US (because big food companies run the USDA recommendations), but you're only supposed to get 500mg of calcium a day, not 1000mg like the USDA recommends. There are so many studies that show that 1400mg+ is approaching a danger zone. this is exacerbated by unusually low magnesium levels. If you're looking to get more magnesium into your body, I'd recommend whole foods rather than supplements. Supplements are often not absorbed by the body. Whole foods high in magnesium include: leafy greens, nuts (especially cashews), oatmeal, whole grains, beans. and if you want to find more high nutrient foods try my nutrient based food search: https://kale.world/c https://kale.world/c (put the selector on magnesium)
- nradov 7y ago
  How significant is that portion? Have there been any large scale clinical studies recently on calcium and magnesium levels in the population? Please cite your sources regarding the recommended calcium intake.
  - thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
    WHO (World Health organization) says 500mg.
    - nradov 7y ago
      False. The WHO recommends 1000mg for most adults. Adolescents, pregnant women, and the elderly should get a little more. https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/42716/9241546123.pdf https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/42716/92415...
  - thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
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pmoriarty 7y ago
An unusual but effective way of taking magnesium is taking epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) baths. This way, the magnesium is absorbed through the skin, so one does not have to worry about possibly not absorbing it through the stomach when taking supplements orally.
qwsxyh 7y ago
It feels like internet people legitimately believe dietary changes can cure every single disease sometimes.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  Considering how many diseases are caused by lack of, or an excess of specific coumpounds, they are often right. Disease does not always refer to virus/bacteria caused malaides.
kazinator 7y ago
Interesting. Maybe, eat more green leafies? Magnesium is what makes plants green (as the center atom in the organo-metallic molecule known as chlorophyll).
mntmoss 7y ago
I just started magnesium again after a month or so off the stuff. I have the bottle right here in fact... What I originally got it for was percieved joint pains in the morning jogging routine I had just started. I seemed to get some results but wanted to do an A/B, and while I don't have lab results to correlate, I did start noticing some joint issues again by the end. So we'll see where I stand after a week.
nate_meurer 7y ago
I'll add my own story to the anecdata: my young daughter suffered from chronic constipation for years, nearly her whole life in fact. About two years ago I started her on magnesium supplementation, and within two days the constipation stopped. It has only returned once, on vacation when I had neglected to bring the magnesium with us. The supplementation is simple and rudimentary. I add epsom salt to the tea that we drink as a family each morning. The dosage ends up at about 90 mg of elemental magnesium per day for her. From what I've read this is below the accepted therapeutic dose, but the I believe the cessation of her constipation is unlikely to be a coincidence.
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256 points by known 7y ago

aik 7y ago

For anyone here that takes magnesium for sleep, why do you think it works for you? It works wonders for my sleep but I’ve never met anyone that shares that view.

Devmailo 7y ago
Imagine cramps waking you up. Magnesium should prevent them if you have deficiency.
petilon 7y ago
The cells in our body depend on two essential minerals for normal function: Calcium and magnesium. Cells go into ON state when calcium goes in, and OFF state when calcium goes out. Calcium doesn't go out on its own: magnesium has to go in and displace the calcium. When you are low on magnesium, cells can't go into OFF state. When that happens your muscles become stiff and you need massages, and your brain can't turn off and you can't sleep.

BadassFractal 7y ago

Poor man's TLDR: we're not sure yet, but consider taking magnesium supplementation to help with or prevent MD. The downside of light Mg supplementation seems trivial, and the upside could be strong.

philshem 7y ago
Magnesium also promotes muscle relaxation and “calms the brain”. Here in Switzerland it’s commonly taken over-the-counter. I had never heard of it as a supplement in the US.
- WoodenChair 7y ago
  A supplement in the US is over the counter.
Tharkun 7y ago
Mg deficiency is also implicated in some cardiac arrhythmias and supplementation has been shown to help.
- jerf 7y ago
  That's why I'm taking it. I have an absorption disease (Celiac) and I was having terrible cardiac issues at 38 (and with a minor family history of heart issues at older age, but nothing like what I was having). Magnesium is one of the things it has taken to straighten it out. If you have heart issues, you may have to try to balance magnesium and potassium. If the problem is a deficiency, this is a rather annoyingly difficult balancing act to pull off, because as per the comments in the beginning of Gwern's article about magnesium, magnesium has a very slow-moving component to it, where it depletes slowly but also only fills slowly, and a fast moving component that responds relatively quickly, and based on my experience, the heart's use of magnesium seems to be related to both. Potassium, by contrast, appears to take nearly instant effect. So you're balancing something you can't see that changes over the course of months or years against a nutritional input that is instant. This is not easy. Several times I've settled on a dosing schedule that seemed to work for me, but had to be changed after a couple of months as the slow-pool magnesium (I hope) continued to improve. I've actually learned the difference in my body's reactions to a potassium deficiency (a tightness in the chest) vs. a magnesium deficiency (restless legs, heart that may not be "racing" but is not slowing down for sleep properly). YMMV; n=1, etc.
  - fxj 7y ago
    I have HOCM and afib and Mg and potassium helps wonder with the extrasystoles. I also take taurine against the extrasystoles in combination with Mg and K in the evening before going to bed and I can sleep much better.
    - jerf 7y ago
      Yeah, I didn't go into the whole spiel as off-topic (and this comment isn't the whole spiel, either...), but taurine for heart issues seems like something that should just be tried by almost anyone experiencing them. It has basically no overdose risk, as it's an amino acid everybody consumes anyhow, and there are many papers showing it can help. So, very cheap, basically no downside, possible significant upside, abundant scientific support. It was one of the first things I tried that had an immediate, positive effect. Digging into this sort of thing did convince me there's a lot of truth in the idea that you can't get the medical world very interested in solutions that don't come with a patentable treatment. There's a lot of papers I've found about how much heart stuff can be treated by correcting various deficiencies, such as taurine, or magnesium & potassium, but it all seems very under-utilized by the medical community themselves. Example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868 (Incidentally, just as that abstract says, the literature suggest adding L-Arginine to your taurine may also be beneficial as they work together. If you're fine now, I wouldn't suggest rocking the boat, but if it's only 80-90% effective or something, you may want to consider adding that as there's a decent chance it could take you to 100%.)
SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
It's also commonly recommended in the weightlifting world to aid in muscle recovery.

GrumpyNl 7y ago

Take some hart burn medicine and you get all the magnesium you can handle.

moh_maya 7y ago
Heart burn meds are often Mg Oxide or sulfate, which isn't that well absorbed. [1,2] for anxiety and depression, Mg Citrate works well, as does Mg Glycinate [3] Just a heads up. [1]http://www.kumc.edu/school-of-medicine/family-medicine/integrative-health/health-topics/the-benefits-of-magnesium.html http://www.kumc.edu/school-of-medicine/family-medicine/integ... [2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2407766/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2407766/ [3] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201106/magnesium-and-the-brain-the-original-chill-pill https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychia...
- dageshi 7y ago
  I think it might not be absorbed as well, but often there is just a lot more magnesium in oxide than glycinate. So even though it absorbs worse more actually ends up being absorbed in the end. Personally I've felt a more potent reaction from oxide than glycinate, possibly for that reason.
deleted 7y ago
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idiot900 7y ago

This smells like a crackpot. The first author’s affiliation is his own “research institute”: https://m.george-eby-research.com/ https://m.george-eby-research.com/ and they claim a simple, somehow overlooked solution to a difficult problem, citing flimsy and ancient studies.

lettergram 7y ago
I generally agree with you, but lithium is also used to treat bi-polar disorder (among others) and it was discovered by accident. People used to recommend it without any data supporting it. I suspect this is how most treatments start
- tokai 7y ago
  >lithium [...] was discovered by accident. No it was not. Development of treatment with lithium was very much a part of psychiatric normal science.
  - reneberlin 7y ago
    I'm sorry - you are wrong. John Cade found the effects - with animals - by accident. And he was widely ignored because of his lack of fundamental, industry-wide standards for exploration. Neverless: lithium is now the way to go with clinical treatment of a wide range of disorders and reducing self-harm and suicide rates. The problem so far: nobody is sure why it works. The dose is worth mentioning. Clients receive a dose of 200-500mg per day. The lithium you can buy without prescription contains around 1mg. Effects are still there, but the dose on the subjects of matter are quite high and can be toxic if done wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication)
    - tokai 7y ago
      Development of lithium treatment involved a lot more than John Cade's accident. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bdi.12739 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bdi.12739

benjaminwootton 7y ago

I'm quite skeptical on supplements, but I have to say that Magnesium helps me sleep like a baby and feel much more relaxed generally.

aik 7y ago
I’m also one where magnesium has almost magical positive effects on my sleep. When I started getting some anxiety several years ago, taking magnesium before bed was the only thing that kept me both asleep at night and sleeping deeply. I still take it often to get deeper sleep. I’ve always taken the citrate type. Do you know why Mg helps you so much?
taf2 7y ago
Whether it’s true or a placebo- sign me up :)
- kingkawn 7y ago
  In the treatment of subjective mood the distinction between ‘true’ and ‘placebo’ vanishes
seishan 7y ago
Same here. Taking magnesium L-threonate and melatonin before going to sleep has improved my sleep quality like nothing else.
n1000 7y ago
I recently realised that Mg is a reliable way for me to stop teeth grinding in my sleep.
- bradhoffman 7y ago
  I am interested in hearing more. Did you try Mg with the intent of grinding your teeth less?
  - n1000 7y ago

shaki-dora 7y ago

Needs a [2011] and some scepticism: Many people have tried Magnesium because it is cheap and available without prescription. If it were as effective as "success in 220 out of 250 cases" claims, that would show up. The 220 of 250 claim also doesn't fit with "as effective as the tricyclic antidepressant imipramine". No antidepressant is 90% effective.

yetihehe 7y ago
Most cheap magnesium is magnesium carbonate which is least effective and causes diarrhoea (should be taken with calcium to prevent that). Magnesium aspartate is sometimes prescribed as "working one", but can be neurotoxic (according to this paper).
- gerbilly 7y ago
  I take magnesium bis-glycinate, it's well absorbed and has no serious side effects.
  - yetihehe 7y ago
    Me too. I haven't tried other versions which are recommended by this paper, but I can recommend bis-glycinate. I tried carbonate and it didn't work for me. Recommended dose is 150mg/day, but I've found I need even 300mg/day (heavy cofee drinker).
    - fxj 7y ago
      I take Mg Taurate against extrasystoles and it works very well for me. I also tried Mg Citrate together with Carnitine which enhances the Mg uptake in the gut. Mg Carbonate or Oxide are hardly soluble and also basic which makes it not very digestable.
  - phkahler 7y ago
    Glycine on it's own is also a thing. It tastes sweet so you can add it to a drink or food without problem.

mboto 7y ago

I have found that taking Magnesium is like turning a switch on in my head and I'm suddenly happy again. I don't get upset or angry in the same way, I'm more patient and my thoughts are not obsessive. Magnesium is best taken with calcium and vitamin D as both are used in the uptake of magnesium. I have found that processed foods, alcohol, caffeine and sugar all make me worse, but magnesium gives me the will power to change that lifestyle that caused the problem in the first place. I don't know about quack studies but for the cheap price and quick turnaround (3 days for small effect, 2 week for a large scale shift) it's a simple thing to try.

ralphstodomingo 7y ago
What form are you taking them?
- ddorian43 7y ago
  Glycinate is ~most used/benefit/cost I think (i do). There's also threonate which is in a weird state with effects,withdrawals,price etc. I have some and still haven't tried it.
  - wolco 7y ago
    Glycinate seems to absorb well. 1/2 a capsule seems to do wonders anymore too tired/nervous
    - ddorian43 7y ago
      You have to speak in miligrams.
digdugdirk 7y ago
What is your dosage and form for the supplements you mentioned?
- user17843 7y ago

kmmlng 7y ago

I once tried supplementing magnesium while in the midst of moderate depression. Interestingly enough, the effect was not relief, but rather major, absolutely crushing depression (i.e. cannot get out of bed all day depression). I went back to moderate depression after stopping the supplementation and a subsequent second attempt brought back the major depression. By that point I gave up on the whole thing. Anyone have a similar experience or maybe some insight that might explain this?

sound1 7y ago
I didn't have that but it sure made me extra sleepy during the day when I took too much initially. After reducing the dose it was fine.
ncmncm 7y ago
There are many kinds of depression all shoveled into the one diagnosis. It's as if malaria, flu, bacterial meningitis, and every other infection were called "ague". (They were, once.) The only way we know to tell one from another is by what med helps, if any. If none do, it's "non-responsive depression" or some other catch-all. Depression, like schizophrenia and a host of other DSM diagnoses are the DSM's equivalents to "wastebasket taxa" in taxonomy. People insisting that randomized controlled trials ("RCTs") prove that depression meds, and other psychiatric meds, don't work demonstrate their ignorance of the major failure mode of RCTs: unreliable diagnosis. Given that last, the RCT tells you nothing, positive or negative, absent very careful, detailed deconstruction of individual outcomes.
wolco 7y ago
Two thoughts GI changes / issues You don't have enough vit-d to bind with
DoreenMichele 7y ago
maybe some insight that might explain this? Some thoughts: 1. You may have taken a form of supplement you don't tolerate well. I have trouble with sulfur. A lot of iron supplements are sulfur based. They cause negative side effects for me. 2. In order to be properly absorbed, magnesium needs to be taken with some other things, like calcium, vitamin D and vitamin K. Maybe you weren't absorbing it well because you weren't taking it with these other things. 3. Maybe you have some unidentified genetic quirk that impacts the processing of magnesium. 4. A nutritional approach to addressing health issues is a case of "Things get worse before they get better." A lot of people use the term "healing crisis" to describe this process. If you think you have never heard of such, think again. The best known form of this phenomenon is drug withdrawal. 5. You aren't magnesium deficient, so you were actually causing yourself an overdose of magnesium. There is some other explanation for your depression. Magnesium deficiency is not it.

sfjailbird 7y ago

I take magnesium in the form of trace mineral drops. These are de-salted sea water deposits. Besides magnesium they contain other rare trace minerals which would otherwise be difficult to obtain, particularly lithium which has quite strong evidence of mellowing mood. The liquid form leads me to believe they absorb well but not sure if that's actually true. Edit to say I believe these drops have reduced my anxiety and improved relaxation. If nothing else I sleep better due to the mg (no more Jimmy legs).

peteradio 7y ago
Where do you find such things?
- ehosca 7y ago
  https://www.amazon.com/Trace-Minerals-Research-Concentrace-Mineral/dp/B000AMUWLK?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Trace-Minerals-Research-Concentrace-M...
  - Charybdis 7y ago
    I've personally had great success with this particular product. At the end of a long day of coding, when my brain seems "burnt out"/fuzzy, 20-30 drops of this in a glass of water has an almost-immediate and noticeable impact (most of the time).
ry_ry 7y ago
Does the body effectively absorb trace amounts of minerals? Edit. I'm not implying any homeopathy antics, am genuinely curious.

n1000 7y ago

There are different forms to take Mg and they seem to come with different effects and side effects. It may take a while to find one that works.

koboll 7y ago
Tried it briefly and then quit after I realized it was causing excruciating chest pain. Would be nice to have stayed on it to realize the mood effects, but not even close to worth it for me.

dade_ 7y ago

An excuse to use too much maple syrup! https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5602/2 https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5602/2

opportune 7y ago
I see lots of manganese, but you would need to be consuming truly absurd amounts of syrup for the magnesium in maple syrup to amount to much. It says it has 11% of your DV in a cup, which is also 840kcal of mostly sugar
thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
as the other comment stated, there isn't much magnesium in maple syrup. Magnesium is not the same thing as manganese. Furthermore manganese is abundantly available in numerous foods. So much so, that it's extremely unlikely that you need more of it.

less_penguiny 7y ago

FWIW Gwern has done some careful self-experiments on magnesium supplementation, finding it wasn't all rosy: https://www.gwern.net/nootropics/Magnesium https://www.gwern.net/nootropics/Magnesium

aik 7y ago
Magnesium truly does wonders for my sleep but every single person I’ve recommended it to has not had similar results. Like many things I’m sure there’s a significant difference depending on your biochemistry.
- DanBC 7y ago
  > Like many things I’m sure there’s a significant difference depending on your biochemistry. ...and placebo effect.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    ESPECIALLY for something that's so delicate as sleep.
  - firethief 7y ago
    Practically speaking, it doesn't matter how much the effects are mediated by the placebo response; whatever helps you sleep at night.
- hiram112 7y ago
  What were your initial sleep issues and how does MG help? Also, do you take it right before bed or is it something that just builds up in increasing effectiveness after taking it daily for weeks / months?
DoreenMichele 7y ago
It's a long read with a lot of data and can be hard to make sense of. Here is the TLDR: Conclusion The interpretation which seems to best resolve everything I know about magnesium with the data from my experiment is that magnesium supplementation does indeed help me a large amount, but I was taking way too much.

marban 7y ago

I'm a cardio addict and do 250mg liquid Citrate and 200mg of Bisglycinate before sleep. Otherwise restless legs syndrome would kick in badly during the night. Sometimes adding 1.000mg of Gaba also helps with recovery and falling asleep. Just make sure to stay away from cheap Mg Oxide since bio-availability is somewhere in the 4% range and usually comes in Multi-anything pills.

icxa 7y ago
Someone recommended magnesium to help with my migraines (turns out it was an eye imbalance), so it's been sitting in a drawer but I also have a hard time staying asleep, and am wondering if I should crack it back out. I have some stuff called "Natural Vitality" and it is magnesium carbonate 325mg, does this sound decent to you?
- marban 7y ago
  I've never seen Mg Carbonate in a sport supplement but I usually look for the highest bio-availability and the least laxative effect. Hence, Bisglycinate is my best choice. Usually comes in pills and rarely also (expensive) in liquid shots w/ sweeteners.
- joncrane 7y ago
  I've found that the Citrate works best for me. I don't want to quote a brand but it's a well-known brand that's found in every store in my area that sells vitamins as well as online.
bitL 7y ago
I concur with GABA, and for me also sauna works. Mg only together with Ca/D.
beagle3 7y ago
If you are still experimenting .... for my RLS, it turned out that B3=Niacin is very helpful, even after onset; And also sufficient iron. When I take iron in the morning and B3 whenever (morning/day), I don't get RLS. And important: if you do experiment, I found that only "real" flush-causing B3 works; Not niacinamide/nicotineamide, which apparently has some of the (many) benefits of niacin, though no RLS relief (or flushing). And especially not inositol-hexanicotinate, which I have not found a single reference describing any useful property of (but still gets sold as B3).

koboll 7y ago

>Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined grains, in the Western world, harming the brain and causing mood disorders. This seems to be the case with many such nutrients. I almost wonder if the most effective solution isn't a medical approach but a medically-informed, government-led incentive program to convince food manufacturers to reintroduce the essential nutrients they strip out of food.

icxa 7y ago
When the US government is in charge of feeding people healthy foods, they came up with the now defunct "Food Pyramid" and school lunch, which featured classic gems like "government cheese", "square pizza" and my favorite, mystery meat "salisbury steak"
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  Woah woah woah, I miss rectangle pizza and 'country fried steak' (maybe decomposing cardboard and ground shoe leather?). It may not have been food but it tasted good.
  - icxa 7y ago
    Of course it tasted good! Those food additive and chemical plants in NJ can do wonders to stale, ammonia-washed meats to trick our brains into thinking what we are eating tastes good! I still indulge in some fast food pink goop chicken nuggets from time to time. With enough sugar-filled "barbecue" sauce, anything can taste good!
- maroonblazer 7y ago
  But weren't they simply following the lead of the most widely accepted science at the time? As science has learned more the government recommendations have evolved as well, albeit perhaps not as rapidly or comprehensively as they could.
  - Conjoiner 7y ago

petercooper 7y ago

I can't speak for depression, but I was suffering from muscle spasms and tremors last year (both external and internal). Magnesium was suggested, I now take two a day and they have almost entirely dissipated. It certainly wouldn't surprise me that the presence or lack of such substances could have significant effects upon the brain too though I have noticed no changes in that regard.

wrnr 7y ago
Same thing here. last year I had an almost constant spasm in my right eyelid, after a cure of magnesium it disappeared. I did not find that it altered my mood, I just happy to be relieved from the spasm.

wiggler00m 7y ago

Why supplement magnesium instead of getting it from dietary sources?

anonu 7y ago
You didnt read the article. From the article: > Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined grains, in the Western world,
- wiggler00m 7y ago
  "Dietary magnesium intake has steadily declined over the preceding century, due to...(b) making dietary choices low in magnesium-rich foods such as whole grains, rice and wheat bran, nuts, seeds, chocolate, peanuts, peanut butter and green leafy vegetables..." If the root cause is insufficient dietary magnesium -- due to poor dietary choices -- eating foods that are rich in magnesium, and cutting out refined foods, might be a good start. It would have other benefits, too. I don't like to see people taking tons of supplements whilst eating poorly.
- cmbuck 7y ago
  You seem to be extrapolating that since refined grains do not contain Mg, no foods do. This is not the case. OP can eat other foods instead of processed grains to obtain Mg.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
If you are self-experimenting to figure out if X nutrient makes a difference, supplements are vastly easier to work with. Dietary changes are far, far more complex and introduce many confounding factors. If you establish that, yea, verily, magnesium helps, dietary changes to make sure you get enough magnesium can make sense. I used to take about $300/month worth of supplements of various sorts. I no longer do so and haven't for years. I just note that "Based on x, I need more of thus and such." and tailor my diet to get what I need.

sapilla 7y ago

I found CBD to provide temporary relief - I think my depression was inflammation related. The world is still dark and compressed but also comfortable, like the dark corners fill with algae and the ground with grass. What ended up working was improving my oral posture and articulation using ortothropics and self-developed speech exercises (the important part is having designed the exercises yourself). Suddenly it's vastly easier to maintain correct spinal alignment and breathing. Depression is just an emotion again. I supplement fish oil, gradeschool-tier mathematics and meditation, from Vigyan Bhairava Tantra.

mnky9800n 7y ago
wtf?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
Genetikl33 7y ago
Can you elaborate on oral posture and articulation? I have a major snoring (apnea) and breathing issue due to dentistry mistakes (taking out teeth when I should not have as a kid) and my face caved in which compresses my breathing. This is my theory at least. I am curious because this is the first time I hear about the concepts you brought up
- sapilla 7y ago
  The most important thing is to have the tip of your tongue (almost) touching your teeth and then gradually increasing the amount of tongue-to-roof-of-mouth surface, beginning it the front - your current limit is where it blocks nasal breathing. This stimulates horizontal (forwards) bone development vs. vertical (downwards) development. A "drill" I can recommend is writing out words a defined number of times (pick a number you like between 10 and 100), as you write also pronounce them without letting your tongue lose contact with the roof of your mouth. This may feel very unnatural at first. If you don't like the result just recycle the paper. There's also the habit of sucking or pulling in your tongue - don't do that. I think it causes jaw clenching. If you want a fast way to get rid of that, invent metaphors for it and then watch yourself do it automatically in social interactions. Also check out ortothropics, it's the emerging science of facial development through oral posture. They have a large collection of instructional material on YouTube.

stevenmays 7y ago

Magnesium supplementation changed my life. Better sleep, faster recovery from work outs, better more stable moods

aNoob7000 7y ago
How much are you taking daily?

kevstev 7y ago

I started taking magnesium supplements about 9 months ago, not for any depression issues, but more for muscle issues. I had a weird leg muscle injury a few years ago that I never really got a proper diagnosis for that happened when doing some light hiking. In doing my own research on that, a condition similar to my symptoms came up, and one of the causes was a magnesium deficiency. I had a few other minor ailments come up, and I have been biking to work for the last few years, and noticed that my recovery time is significantly longer. All of these things cited magnesium as a significant player, so I bought some supplements. Anyway, I take about 200mg a day, for about the last 6 months or so, and I can not say I have felt any noticeable improvement. This is obviously just a single data point, but even with some specific symptoms that pointed to an Mg deficiency, I didn't see an improvement. If you feel this is some type of magic solution, you should temper your expectations.

NPMaxwell 7y ago
Great idea to get a work up and find out about any deficiencies in the mix of stuff in your blood.
batter 7y ago
If you're playing with magnesium/calcium i think boron should be included as well. It will allow you to utilize magnesium/calcium.
- arkades 7y ago
  Do you have any sources for that statement? I haven’t read anything to that effect, and I’d be interested in finding out more.
SirensOfTitan 7y ago
What kind of Magnesium are you taking? There’s a huge differential of bioavailability of different magnesium types.
- entangledqubit 7y ago

MichaelMoser123 7y ago

Pink Himalayan salt is supposed to be rich in magnesium. I wonder if it contains enough magnesium to make a difference with depression.

NPMaxwell 7y ago

I love this: "The reasons for these findings are not quite clear, but inadequate dietary Mg is prevalent in America and is the most likely cause." Ah, to be publishing in a book, not a journal. And to know that your reviewers are like-minded magnesium lovers. Imagine submitting an article to something like Junior Forensics, the journal of high school debate. You could include something like, "All the factors that lead to success in life are hard to account for; participation in debate is the most influential."

Genetikl33 7y ago

Remember that it depends what type of Magnesium you take. Not all are created equal. I recommend Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium. Since taking that one for many years, digestive issues massively improved with slight improvements in sleep and overall mood.

tomhoward 7y ago
Another one that may work better for people: magnesium malate. For some people it can be more easily absorbed than other forms, and the malic acid (which occurs naturally in apples and other fruits) can support the Kreb's cycle that produces mitochondrial energy (which is also linked to mood and general healthy functioning of the body).

opportune 7y ago

The first author has a publication called "zinc lozenges as a cure for the common cold" here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906491 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906491 and given that the author has his own "research institute" I'm highly skeptical of this guy's ability to do science. Seems like some kind of crackpot I mean seriously look at this website: https://m.george-eby-research.com/app/welcome/5310242/36/ https://m.george-eby-research.com/app/welcome/5310242/36/

okmokmz 7y ago
Wow, that website has a lot of red flags. The second line alone, "this is a multi-gigabit sized site," is enough to make me doubt the info on that page. This NYT article from 1995 says he is a "city planner turned self-educated pharmacologist" so I'd be surprised if any of his "research" was properly done or reached accurate conclusions https://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/29/business/patents-751395.html https://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/29/business/patents-751395.h...
billman 7y ago
FYI, The title of his paper is "Zinc lozenges as cure for the common cold – A review and hypothesis". I haven't read it, but the title seems reasonable.
- opportune 7y ago
  In the publicly visible abstract it says: " Zinc lozenges slowly dissolving in the mouth over a 20-30 min period releasing adequate iZn (18 mg) used each 2h are hypothesized to shorten common colds by 6-7 days, which is a cure for the common cold."
- ncmncm 7y ago
  There is plenty of evidence that zinc has effects on the progress of rhinoviral infections. I don't know of any detailed determination why, but it seems tied up with preferential activation of certain immune system components. People who respond well to zinc treatments often report immediate dizziness after remarkably small doses, when taken as cold symptoms are emerging. They used to sell a gel that, it turned out, caused permanent loss to sense of smell if snorted (against pkg instructions, but who read those?). Now you find lozenges, which seem to work about as well.

Ice_cream_suit 7y ago

Good old fashioned crackpot science...

Nasrudith 7y ago

I have some personal experiences to share - anecdotal and not that scientific. I found it slightly helpful in my own treatment of depression. Not a miracle cure - it was suggested essentially because Proton Pump Inhibitors I am already on were known to worsen/cause it. In my case it seems to make medication a bit more effective and helped thinking a little bit. A few times when I ran out for a week or so waiting for the next bulk order to arrive it eventually caused a mild worsening of mood that went away when resumed. I don't know if I ever actually had deficiencies because needle phobia has meant avoidance such that I can only list my blood type as a question mark.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

The onset of depression has greatly increased in incidence, and it is affecting people much earlier in their lives during the late 20th century and early 21st century than before the 20th century (Meyer and Quenzar, 2005). The reasons for these findings are not quite clear, but inadequate dietary Mg is prevalent in America and is the most likely cause. There is probably a real increase in depression, coupled with a change in diagnostic habits, which has to do with the element of stigma. Lower stigma leads to a higher rate of diagnosis. Somatopsychic medical effects are very real. I've gotten very good results with addressing nutritional deficiencies as a first line of defense for issues that often present as mood or mental health issues. But I don't think you can reasonably conclude that magnesium deficiency is The explanation for increased prevalence of depression in a world that has had so many profound changes. Things are more crowded. Most people now live in cities instead of rural environments. Among other things, this means people are subjected to much noisier conditions. We have far, far better information about the world than we used to. The 24/7 news cycle is incredibly stressful, if only because most "news" is bad news. There are just so very many confounding factors, no, you can't reasonably conclude that this one singular factor is the sole explanation or primary explanation. That's ridiculous.

balabaster 7y ago
I would wager it's a combination of factors: 1. In general, the north american diet is disgraceful. 2. Consumerism and brainwashing people into believing that they can only be happy when they achieve X, Y or Z, does nothing for people's emotional emptiness. 3. The constant barrage of shit news, most of which is largely irrelevant to most of our lives, most of the time. 4. The constant threat of automation and off-shoring meaning that people never feel secure about their income stream unless they specifically work in an industry where their ability to generate their income stream is unrelated to these constant threats. 5. Inflation of living costs escalating at a rate beyond inflation of income. 6. The polarization making people feel isolated from one another instead of connected. Nobody can talk about anything any more without fear of offending someone, being politically incorrect, being ostracized or vilified. 7. The reported growing financial disparity where the 2% have 98% of the wealth while the 98% share the other 2% and the constant message that it's only going to get harder to be able to cross that chasm. 8. Corporations subverting politics for their own profits instead of the good of the people. The list goes on ad nauseum. I firmly believe if the world stops behaving like assholes, learns to eat properly and talks to one another to a level that find connection instead of a divide. The depression is just going to get worse and worse until suicide becomes an epidemic.

mnorton 7y ago

I have heard folks say one of the best ways to absorb magnesium is an empsom salt bath. Not sure if there is "science" on this, but hear it is one of the great benefits of a float tank.

afo 7y ago
Agreed. I float 2-4x/month and can confirm that I sleep way better and generally have an increase in mood. I'd highly recommend it.

kerkeslager 7y ago

There are two huge confounding issues here which make it impossible for me to conclude that Mg has an effect of depression based on the studies I've seen: 1. Magnesium may treat anxiety rather than depression. This is analogous to various SSRIs which arguably treat anxiety better than depression[1]. Anxiety and depression are highly comorbid, and both doctors and patients may be bad at differentiating between the symptoms, leading to "I feel better"-type reporting. This might mean that Mg supplementation is a good thing for depressed people because it treats their anxiety, not because it treats their depression. This alternative hypothesis is particularly compelling because magnesium deficiency has a variety of well-understood effects on muscle tension[2] which mimic physical symptoms of anxiety. 2. Magnesium is frequently supplemented concurrently with vitamin D, vitamin K, calcium, and zinc. All of these are known to be active in humans, and vitamin D in particular has been correlated with depression and seasonal affective disorder. [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/ssris-an-update/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/ssris-an-update/ (see under the bolded "fourth" comment--SSC has a bunch of posts on this topic). [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_deficiency#Diagnosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_deficiency#Diagnosis

jeffdavis 7y ago

Is Mg normally tested in blood tests? Seems like you could just read the results, and if low take supplements; if not, don't.

cmbuck 7y ago
> "Since 99% of Mg is intracellular, serum Mg testing of the remaining 1% found in serum will produce misleading results (Mann and Truswell, 2002) and it should not be used in future research." Elsewhere in the article they reference testing being of "negative utility"

55555 7y ago

Am I the only person that magnesium makes feel, well, dumber? Pretty much everything that's anxiolytic or GABAnergenic makes me feel dumber (along with nicely relaxed).

tomhoward 7y ago

> "Deficits of Mg may result from inadequate intake, malabsorption, or renal loss" Unless I missed it, the paper didn't consider another possible cause of magnesium deficiency: depression. I.e., the paper seems to conflate correlation with causation (i.e., magnesium deficiency may cause depression), and doesn't consider that the causality may go in the other direction: that magnesium deficiency is a physiological manifestation of depression and other types of chronic negative emotion. My experience with this is that I've worked for a long time to address chronic illness that has included conditions like depression, anxiety and chronic fatigue syndrome. One of the many things I've tried has been to substantially increase magnesium intake, both via food sources and supplements. My measured magnesium levels didn't change simply by increasing intake. What has made a difference was directly addressing the emotional and outer-life causes of my depression/anxiety. Even then it took a while, and the work/improvement is still ongoing, but it's very clear that my magnesium readings stayed low even when supplementing, and only started rising after a solid stretch of deep emotional healing work and significant improvements to life circumstances. The still-nascent and controversial topic of epigenetics may be relevant here.

comboy 7y ago
Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests? Less than 1% of magnesium (AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can fluctuate a lot depending on your body state. Correlation is not causation but what HN readers should remember is that most researchers are aware of that fact. So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages, especially given that results of treatment are mentioned in the abstract.
- tomhoward 7y ago
  > Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests? No, hair tests. Which I dread talking about in forums like this as it can be a red cloth to motivated skeptics/cynics (of which I used to be one until I was blessed with the opportunity to endure this experience), but the results have been consistent with my experienced-symptoms over a long period of time (10 years so far), and the correlation with my emotional work and subjective mood/life experience has been clear. > Less than 1% of magnesium (AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can fluctuate a lot depending on your body state Yes, that's hair tests are used for this type of healing work. > So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages I wish you would take more of a good-faith approach to the discussion and point to where this is mentioned. I read over the abstract as thoroughly as I could for evidence that they properly considered this. I can see mention of the observation that magnesium levels seemed to respond to antidepressants, but it still seems to assume that the cause is physiological, and that any mood-change is an effect not a cause/influence. Nothing I can find in the abstract suggests that depression-causing-magnesium-deficiency was considered, studied and disproven, yet such possibilities are often raised in other circles, and it aligns with my own experience (and available evidence). Please understand that people like myself and a few others on HN, who have been trying to share perspectives like these for many years, get rather tired of reflexive dismissals, despite having done vast amounts research and experimentation/data-collection.

lordgrenville 7y ago

People that rely on desalinated water can become magnesium deficient. There was a study in Israel about a rise in heart attacks based on magnesium deficiency from desalination. [1] I wonder if there might be a mental health angle to this as well. [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/deficiencies-in-desalinated-water-could-lead-to-increase-in-heart-attack-deaths/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/deficiencies-in-desalinated-wa...

taneq 7y ago
Hmm, the city I live in has been mixing in more and more desalinated water in the last few years...

chillytoes 7y ago

I first read about magnesium supplements in a random Hacker News comment a year ago. Taking them cured my insomnia. If anyone thinks they might benefit from Mg, I definitely encourage you to do the research.

Aardwolf 7y ago

Just another mineral you need enough from to add to the list... It'd be useful to have permanent monitoring of your body to know which ones you have too much and too little from imho

debt 7y ago

I don't get it, why do I so regularly see these random solutions to depression on the homepage? Are startup founders really depressed or something? Is there a rash of suicides in this community? I don't get it. Overwhelmingly, normal-ass anti-anxiety, SSRs, and therapy is to be the best form of treatment. Pumping your body full of magnesium is a hack that falls in to the bucket of exercise or sleeping more. If you're scared about going to the doctor and getting prescribed, that's one thing. But mainlining crushed up magnesium vitamins to fix your depression is a complete lack of understanding of depression. Magnesium is not treatment. Mushrooms and Ketamine is not treatment. Get actual treatment.

thorwasdfasdf 7y ago

I hope this issue gets more attention. We're so undernourished when it comes to Magnesium. Also, closely related is Calcium. Calcium and Magnesium work closely together in the body for huge number of functions related to brain health. Of particular importance is the ratio of calcium to magnesium. A Significant portion of the population has their calcium to magnesium ratio way too high, something like 10 to 1 or higher. This is not only due to too little magnesium but also due to way too much calcium. It's not commonly known in the US (because big food companies run the USDA recommendations), but you're only supposed to get 500mg of calcium a day, not 1000mg like the USDA recommends. There are so many studies that show that 1400mg+ is approaching a danger zone. this is exacerbated by unusually low magnesium levels. If you're looking to get more magnesium into your body, I'd recommend whole foods rather than supplements. Supplements are often not absorbed by the body. Whole foods high in magnesium include: leafy greens, nuts (especially cashews), oatmeal, whole grains, beans. and if you want to find more high nutrient foods try my nutrient based food search: https://kale.world/c https://kale.world/c (put the selector on magnesium)

nradov 7y ago
How significant is that portion? Have there been any large scale clinical studies recently on calcium and magnesium levels in the population? Please cite your sources regarding the recommended calcium intake.
- thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
  WHO (World Health organization) says 500mg.
  - nradov 7y ago
    False. The WHO recommends 1000mg for most adults. Adolescents, pregnant women, and the elderly should get a little more. https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/42716/9241546123.pdf https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/42716/92415...
- thorwasdfasdf 7y ago

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pmoriarty 7y ago

An unusual but effective way of taking magnesium is taking epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) baths. This way, the magnesium is absorbed through the skin, so one does not have to worry about possibly not absorbing it through the stomach when taking supplements orally.

qwsxyh 7y ago

It feels like internet people legitimately believe dietary changes can cure every single disease sometimes.

whenchamenia 7y ago
Considering how many diseases are caused by lack of, or an excess of specific coumpounds, they are often right. Disease does not always refer to virus/bacteria caused malaides.

kazinator 7y ago

Interesting. Maybe, eat more green leafies? Magnesium is what makes plants green (as the center atom in the organo-metallic molecule known as chlorophyll).

mntmoss 7y ago

I just started magnesium again after a month or so off the stuff. I have the bottle right here in fact... What I originally got it for was percieved joint pains in the morning jogging routine I had just started. I seemed to get some results but wanted to do an A/B, and while I don't have lab results to correlate, I did start noticing some joint issues again by the end. So we'll see where I stand after a week.

nate_meurer 7y ago

I'll add my own story to the anecdata: my young daughter suffered from chronic constipation for years, nearly her whole life in fact. About two years ago I started her on magnesium supplementation, and within two days the constipation stopped. It has only returned once, on vacation when I had neglected to bring the magnesium with us. The supplementation is simple and rudimentary. I add epsom salt to the tea that we drink as a family each morning. The dosage ends up at about 90 mg of elemental magnesium per day for her. From what I've read this is below the accepted therapeutic dose, but the I believe the cessation of her constipation is unlikely to be a coincidence.

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