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Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers’ Traps (2012)
- gridlockd 7y agoMaybe we should experiment with giving these gorillas knives, see what happens.
- davidw 7y agoDismantling the poachers?
- whatshisface 7y agoA gorilla doesn't need a tool to kill a person - have you ever seen a gorilla?
- jniedrauer 7y agoTechnically we don't either. But we could still make poacher dismantling more efficient for them.
- magduf 7y agoThe problem here is that poachers could have guns, so even though gorillas are extremely strong, and a gorilla with a knife is a scary prospect close-up, a poacher with a gun wouldn't have much problem killing the gorilla. The solution is simple: give guns to gorillas and teach them to shoot them. Now we'll have gorilla warfare...
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago"Well, first we had the right to arm bears, and then everyone said that wasn't fair. Now we're arming gorillas, too!"
- lovemenot 7y agoWhat we fear most: Kids with Guns. - Gorillaz
- SketchySeaBeast 7y agoI feel like apes with guns doesn't lead anywhere good. I saw a documentary about that somewhere.
- magduf 7y agoI must have missed that one. I saw a documentary where a really old ape was telling the young ones about how dangerous and murderous humans were, and how they had invented guns to help with their murderous intentions.
- AngryData 7y agoGive them javelins and teach them how to use them. It will certainly solve the poaching problem!
- tempguy9999 7y agoChimps are known to create and use spears but for stabbing rather than throwing <https://phys.org/news/2015-04-chimps-senegal-fashion-spears.html> https://phys.org/news/2015-04-chimps-senegal-fashion-spears..... AFAIC they don't seem to understand how to throw, and aren't physically well adapted to do so.
- dboreham 7y agoWhittling?
- malkia 7y agoPoaching the poachers....
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- lowdose 7y agoViewing a video on screen of a man in gorilla suit killing poachers dwith knife. The pandas seem to dig it: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9932362/Panda-porn-shown-in-attempt-to-get-two-to-mate.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/993236...
- ncmncm 7y ago"If, as you say, it is no crime to be a panda, then why were we arrested?"
- bitwize 7y agoI imagined the adult gorillas sitting around going "Kids these days, they're so tech-savvy."
- barbecue_sauce 7y agoMillennial gorillas are killing the poaching industry.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago>Veterinarian Mike Cranfield, executive director of the Mountain Gorilla Veterinary Project, also said he wasn't shocked by the news. >"Chimpanzees are always quoted as being the tool users, but I think, when the situation provides itself, gorillas are quite ingenious," he said. >Cranfield speculated that the gorillas may have learned how to destroy traps by watching the Karisoke center's trackers. Looks like they may have learned it from watching humans.
- Proven 7y agoMoney see monkey do! But what is the purpose of writing news articles about it - it’s clickwhoring that alerts poachers to improve their deplorable activities
- UltraMagnus 7y agoPoacher: We're setting traps to give you Gorillas new homes. Gorilla dismantling trap: No. Caesar IS home.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 7y agoThey are setting traps for bush meat
- YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago> "No we can't teach them," she said. "We try as much as we can to not interfere with the gorillas. We don't want to affect their natural behavior." Tsk. Like the Prime Directive but in the real world. Well, isn't it the natural behaviour of gorillas to learn? If they can learn by observing humans, without the humans specifically intending it, then what's so different, or unethical, if it's done with intent? I think this is just splitting of moral hairs that is missing an opportunity to help the gorillas protect themselves against poachers. Anyway, if we left the gorillas on their own, without interfering, they'd eventually be wiped out by poachers and others. P.S. It strikes me that the center's workers could have actually shown the gorillas how to dismantle the snares and are only pretending to be surprised at their "unprecedented" behaviour. But I'm proably just paranoid and jaded.
- warent 7y agoExactly. It's more natural to allow humans to poach them out of existence than it is to potentially equip them to protect themselves from the same?
- NikolaeVarius 7y agoYes, hunting is a thing
- wavefunction 7y agoHunting poachers is a thing.
- toss1 7y agoIMO, hunting poachers should be legal, pricey, and encouraged. Sell licenses to hunt poachers, deputize them, and use the proceeds to improve protection of the wildlife. Obviously only part of the solution, but considering that the poachers, especially of elephants & rhinos are now largely part of organized crime syndicates, totally fair.
- 0xFFFE 7y agoI wonder if we should show them how to write software?
- viach 7y agoNot software probably, but could be a plan B for Uber's "driverless" cars.
- frosted-flakes 7y agoThat's probably not as stupid as it sounds. Well, actually it is, but if horses can drive their carriages autonomously, could we teach gorillas to do the same for cars?
- tomjakubowski 7y agoYou know there's a very famous sci-fi musical about why this would be a bad idea! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlmzUEQxOvA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlmzUEQxOvA
- Someone 7y agoGorillas are way too big for that. They would require larger, more expensive cars and more food than, for example, Bonobos. You could also try to use pigeons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon)
- Haga 7y agoGive them a way to transmit video tutorials to other gorilla's, skip writing.
- jacquesm 7y agoBased on the quality of some code bases I suspect that we passed that point long ago.
- deepnotderp 7y ago"Kids these days are so rude"
- hirundo 7y ago> "If we could get more of them doing it, it would be great," he joked. Karisoke's Vecellio, though, said actively instructing the apes would be against the center's ethos. "No we can't teach them," she said. "We try as much as we can to not interfere with the gorillas. We don't want to affect their natural behavior." I would think that the main danger is in habituating the gorillas to humans, teaching them that we're safe when we're not. It may be better if any human interaction with them is aversive but not damaging, like pepper spray.
- darth_skywalker 7y agoPepper spray is actually quite damaging.
- 3martron 7y agoIt was an example, captain pedantic.
- savant_penguin 7y agoHe is actually not a captain.
- weirdo89 7y agoThis comment is way underappreciated.
- leoc 7y agoI'd also think that there's a good chance that it would be damaging mostly to the human on the other end of the spray cannister.
- irjustin 7y agoDefinitely this moral grey area where ethics arguments on both sides are completely valid. - Messing with natural behavior vs - Not being able to adequately defend oneself because we're stuck debating an ethics question While it is a bit of a straw man attack - if this were humans, the answer would be clear.
- wildylion 7y agoSo,is present time the another Neanderthal moment in our history?
- swebs 7y ago>Bush-meat hunters set thousands of rope-and-branch snares in Rwanda's Volcanoes National Park, where the mountain gorillas live. The traps are intended for antelope and other species but sometimes capture the apes. >The hunters, Vecellio said, seem to have no interest in the gorillas. Even small apes, which would be relatively easy to carry away for sale, are left to die. Pretty misleading for the title to blame poachers then, isn't it?
- magissima 7y agoConsidering it's a national park, hunting antelope is probably also considered poaching.
- boblebricoleur 7y agoYes. That's why setting trap in some countries is a strictly regulated activity and lethal or harmful traps are almost always forbidden. You can't always catch what you intended to, so you have to give a way out to the guy you caught by mistake. Snares without a stop are harmful by design.
- ajna91 7y agoIf someone breaks into your house to steal your TV, knocks over a candle, doesn't put out the fire and leaves. Are they not to blame for the fire even if they were only interested in the TV?
- bwb 7y agoI for one welcome our new overlords, I hope to serve them well.
- cwkoss 7y agoWhen will governments start selling licenses to hunt poachers?
- scythe 7y agoI suppose the market for parts of dismembered idealistic Westerners might offset the market for animal parts, if that's what you're thinking.
- ekianjo 7y agoHunt poachers, then sell their organs legally at market price, and then take a cut of the profits. This way the government does not even have to pay for anything. Of course, highly controversial idea, but if you really want to curb down poaching, it might be a good way to fight back with better incentives.
- tempguy9999 7y agoI recall an article on poachers in africa. In that particular case it was down to poverty - I poach or my children go hungry. I've no doubt we'd all do the same.
- dang 7y agoNot here, please.
- twic 7y agoFew technologies will ever stand up to the will of adolescents trying to do things they’re told they’re not allowed to do -- Scott Berkun [1] [1] https://scottberkun.com/essays/37-how-to-build-a-better-web-browser/ https://scottberkun.com/essays/37-how-to-build-a-better-web-...
- disordinary 7y agoIn Aotearoa-New Zealand we set traps for introduced species like stoats, rats, possums, etc. that kill our endangered wildlife that evolved without natural predators. The Kea which are very smart mountain parrots will go and disarm the traps in order to eat the bait. They're smart enough to have figured out how to do this, and are one of just a handful of animals that habitually use tools, but are unfortunately too smart for their own good because their handiwork means there's more predators for them. But, some people don't give animals enough credit. Mammals and especially primates are very, very close to Humans genetically. Animals are often very smart.
- danaliv 7y ago> unfortunately too smart for their own good because their handiwork means [certain doom] Reminds me of a certain mammalian species.
- irq 7y agoAlmost like this trait might be inherent in all mammals. Or does it go even higher? All animals? All life? Evolve intelligence, begin building your doom?
- lazyasciiart 7y agoKea are birds.
- antisemiotic 7y agoPlants are possibly in that club too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azolla_event https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azolla_event
- DoreenMichele 7y agoI thought this would be something more like how plants chemically communicate with each other about insect infestations so other plants can proactively protect themselves or "scream" (give off a pulse) when attacked.
- TOGoS 7y agoI at first read this as "Guerilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers' Traps." Either way I'm all for it.
- ChuckMcM 7y agoKind of makes you wonder if human evolution was driven by predation.
- hvmonk 7y agoI just realized that it is a 7 years old article!
- patagonia 7y agoOr how about the video of the orangutan fighting the bulldozer destroying its home? I used to think people just didn’t realize that animals have internal emotional, social, intellectual lives. But I’m now convinced we know and choose to look away. Tragically. https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/8896313/david-attenborough-climate-change-the-facts-orangutan-bulldozer-video/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/8896313/david-attenbor...
- gerbilly 7y ago"Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" You know what bothers me? movies like the lord of the rings trilogy that make us yearn for an imaginary a more magical time. We are living in the end days of that magical time right now. We don't need fantasies about walking/talking trees when there are 'magical' animals we share the planet with right now that we haven't bothered to get to know. Some have already been wiped out, and the others, well we are working on it...
- Retra 7y agoNobody yearns to live in those imaginary places, they yearn to talk about them and think about them. The real world is far more dangerous and scary than the most treacherous fiction.
- Bartweiss 7y agoAt the beginning of Dune, someone differentiates humans from animals like this: > You've heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap? There's an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, endure the pain, feigning death that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind. The idea is recognizable, at least. It's antelope individually scattering from a cheetah, rather than forming a tight group that wouldn't be attacked a second time. But it's sad, and kind of funny, just how wrong it is to draw that line at 'humans'. Gorillas disarm traps instead of avoiding them. Elephants defend their friends, even across species, and bury their dead. Dolphins proactively kill sharks, and hold injured dolphins - or humans - at the surface to breath. Even octopuses, not usually understood as a social species, display clear theory of mind. It's not just the endless redefinition of "tool use" that feels like hubris anymore. Just about everything we consider deeply meaningful, emotion and intellect and teaching and even ritual, is not a uniquely human experience.
- breatheObserve 7y agoThis makes me wonder how will the rest of the lifeforms will evolve in future. Will gorillas become more intelligent to survive in a current human dominated environment? Will they evolve to the point, where they become early versions of the homo sapiens?
- DoctorOetker 7y agoCould the gorillas be the poachers? The story seems consistent with the gorrilas warning the tracker by grunt to stay put, then dismantle their nearby traps to protect the humans. This is also consistent with the fact that the tracker hadn't noticed the second trap. I don't really believe my suggestion though, but the coincidence probability does seem rather low for 2 such trap-dismantling events during a single encounter between tracker and gorillas. If they spontaneously dismantled strictly for themselves, I'd expect the traps to already be dismantled, if the gorillas preferred the traps dismantled. Perhaps human poachers set the traps, and the gorillas for some reason benefit or are entertained by the trapped animmals? >On Tuesday tracker John Ndayambaje spotted a trap very close to the Kuryama gorilla clan. He moved in to deactivate the snare, but a silverback named Vubu grunted, cautioning Ndayambaje to stay away, Vecellio said. >Suddenly two juveniles—Rwema, a male; and Dukore, a female; both about four years old—ran toward the trap. >As Ndayambaje and a few tourists watched, Rwema jumped on the bent tree branch and broke it, while Dukore freed the noose. >The pair then spied another snare nearby—one the tracker himself had missed—and raced for it. Joined by a third gorilla, a teenager named Tetero, Rwema and Dukore destroyed that trap as well.
- andyidsinga 7y agoFrom the article: >"If we could get more of them doing it, it would be great," he joked. >Karisoke's Vecellio, though, said actively instructing the apes would be against the center's ethos. >"No we can't teach them," she said. "We try as much as we can to not interfere with the gorillas. We don't want to affect their natural behavior." I wonder if this "prime-directive" style rule might be something they consider changed - if there was a way to teach the gorillas to disabled various kinds of traps it seems that would be great. On the other hand, I wonder what the side effects would be.. anyone?