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Last defcon someone did a really interesting presentation on how to investigate the government or government officials. Talked about how to get a FOIA request r

Last defcon someone did a really interesting presentation on how to investigate the government or government officials. Talked about how to get a FOIA request responded to, where to look for information. What really stuck with me though was a slide they offered towards the beginning. I don't have it memorized, but it was demonstrating a sort of "pyramid of public outrage" for certain actions. Sex with children was at the top as most likely to generate outrage, hypocrisy was at the bottom, and somewhere near the bottom was misappropriation of government funds.

samfriedman 7y ago
Do you know if this talk is on YouTube?
- Mathnerd314 7y ago
  I found the talk: https://www.wallofsheep.com/blogs/news/list-of-packet-hacking-village-talks-at-def-con-26-finalized#ebrink https://www.wallofsheep.com/blogs/news/list-of-packet-hackin... https://twitter.com/ebrinkster/status/1028085975887429639 https://twitter.com/ebrinkster/status/1028085975887429639 It doesn't look like it's on YouTube unfortunately.
  - komali2 7y ago
    Ah, thank you! I had spent 15 minutes unsucessfully looking through the program for it. I can't find his slides on the media server: https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2026/DEF%20CON%2026%20presentations/ https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2026/DEF%20CON%2026%20pre... Usually everything from defcon is present. Weird. Anyway, someone more motivated than me may be able to turn them up. Thank you for finding the speaker.
    - novok 7y ago
      Seeing the no camera symbol in the twitter picture, I think it not being on the internet was done on purpose.
treerock 7y ago
> hypocrisy was at the bottom That surprises me given the furore around the likes of Michael Gove admitting to taking drugs[1]. Seems like a politician can lie, steal and manipulate without much complaint, but hypocrisy is a major sin. (Although it's sometimes difficult to distinguish between genuine public outrage and the newspapers whipping it up.) [1]:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/michael-gove-branded-hypocrite-after-admitting-using-cocaine https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/michael-gov...
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Hypocrisy is only a sin when the other side does it. Like when democrats push gun control and complain about systemic racism in the same breath or when republicans blindly advocate for whatever law enforcement wants while saying they care about individual liberty. Those things only ever get called out by the other side.
  - red_trumpet 7y ago
    Why would someone consider gun control to be systematic racism?
  - jakeinspace 7y ago
    Off topic but I'll bite. What's the hypocrisy with gun control + systemic racism complaints?
    - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
      Basically, who do you expect gun control will be enforced against?
      - lightbritefight 7y ago
        Reagan and the black panthers not withstanding, having a gun hasent been very relevant the recent unjust murders that have hit the public consiousness. The police are perfectly willing to kill unarmed black men as well.
isoskeles 7y ago
> hypocrisy was at the bottom Where it belongs. Reminds me of Norm MacDonald’s recent joking about Bill Cosby being a hypocrite.
- kelnos 7y ago
  I'm curious why you think hypocrisy belongs at the bottom. Is it not reasonable to expect our elected officials to "walk the walk", and get pissed at them when they don't?
  - isoskeles 7y ago
    It is reasonable to expect anyone to walk the walk. It is not reasonable to become very angry when they don't. Elected officials are more of symbolic representations of the ideas they're elected to uphold/enforce/legislate/whatever, and I can't understand why people act surprised/angry/outraged when they realize these officials are just flawed humans like everyone else. That said, it is perfectly reasonable to be pissed when they do something wrong. But the significance here is that they did something wrong and the severity of the act. Their actions matter much more than any disagreement between those actions and what they present about themselves. We should be angry at the act, not the hypocrisy. The Bill Cosby example would point at any outrage over Bill Cosby being a serial rapist specifically while presenting himself as a wholesome character/person. If your problem is the disagreement between his actions and his presentation of himself as a wholesome character, there is something severely wrong with your reasoning for this anger. The disagreement between action/presentation is so infinitesimally small compared to the action itself. I seriously worry for the society and people in it that are more concerned over hypocrisy than the act.
    - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
      I'm not sure Western thought agrees with that. Hypocrisy has long been considered extra evil. There's even a circle of Hell named for it, the 8th, Fraud, of which Hypocrisy is a special case.

samfriedman 7y ago

Do you know if this talk is on YouTube?

Mathnerd314 7y ago
I found the talk: https://www.wallofsheep.com/blogs/news/list-of-packet-hacking-village-talks-at-def-con-26-finalized#ebrink https://www.wallofsheep.com/blogs/news/list-of-packet-hackin... https://twitter.com/ebrinkster/status/1028085975887429639 https://twitter.com/ebrinkster/status/1028085975887429639 It doesn't look like it's on YouTube unfortunately.
- komali2 7y ago
  Ah, thank you! I had spent 15 minutes unsucessfully looking through the program for it. I can't find his slides on the media server: https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2026/DEF%20CON%2026%20presentations/ https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2026/DEF%20CON%2026%20pre... Usually everything from defcon is present. Weird. Anyway, someone more motivated than me may be able to turn them up. Thank you for finding the speaker.
  - novok 7y ago
    Seeing the no camera symbol in the twitter picture, I think it not being on the internet was done on purpose.

treerock 7y ago

> hypocrisy was at the bottom That surprises me given the furore around the likes of Michael Gove admitting to taking drugs[1]. Seems like a politician can lie, steal and manipulate without much complaint, but hypocrisy is a major sin. (Although it's sometimes difficult to distinguish between genuine public outrage and the newspapers whipping it up.) [1]:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/michael-gove-branded-hypocrite-after-admitting-using-cocaine https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/michael-gov...

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Hypocrisy is only a sin when the other side does it. Like when democrats push gun control and complain about systemic racism in the same breath or when republicans blindly advocate for whatever law enforcement wants while saying they care about individual liberty. Those things only ever get called out by the other side.
- red_trumpet 7y ago
  Why would someone consider gun control to be systematic racism?
- jakeinspace 7y ago
  Off topic but I'll bite. What's the hypocrisy with gun control + systemic racism complaints?
  - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
    Basically, who do you expect gun control will be enforced against?
    - lightbritefight 7y ago
      Reagan and the black panthers not withstanding, having a gun hasent been very relevant the recent unjust murders that have hit the public consiousness. The police are perfectly willing to kill unarmed black men as well.

isoskeles 7y ago

> hypocrisy was at the bottom Where it belongs. Reminds me of Norm MacDonald’s recent joking about Bill Cosby being a hypocrite.

kelnos 7y ago
I'm curious why you think hypocrisy belongs at the bottom. Is it not reasonable to expect our elected officials to "walk the walk", and get pissed at them when they don't?
- isoskeles 7y ago
  It is reasonable to expect anyone to walk the walk. It is not reasonable to become very angry when they don't. Elected officials are more of symbolic representations of the ideas they're elected to uphold/enforce/legislate/whatever, and I can't understand why people act surprised/angry/outraged when they realize these officials are just flawed humans like everyone else. That said, it is perfectly reasonable to be pissed when they do something wrong. But the significance here is that they did something wrong and the severity of the act. Their actions matter much more than any disagreement between those actions and what they present about themselves. We should be angry at the act, not the hypocrisy. The Bill Cosby example would point at any outrage over Bill Cosby being a serial rapist specifically while presenting himself as a wholesome character/person. If your problem is the disagreement between his actions and his presentation of himself as a wholesome character, there is something severely wrong with your reasoning for this anger. The disagreement between action/presentation is so infinitesimally small compared to the action itself. I seriously worry for the society and people in it that are more concerned over hypocrisy than the act.
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    I'm not sure Western thought agrees with that. Hypocrisy has long been considered extra evil. There's even a circle of Hell named for it, the 8th, Fraud, of which Hypocrisy is a special case.