11 ms·
Still can't get over the user hostile changes in 2.8 (save/export) and will stick to 2.6.
by Kaiyou 7y ago
Still can't get over the user hostile changes in 2.8 (save/export) and will stick to 2.6.
- lucideer 7y ago2.8 was.... 2012. If you're waiting for them to revert your pet change, you might be waiting some time. Are you referring to the separation of the export functionality into a distinct menu item. Is this really something you can't get used to over a 7 year period (particularly when this is how every other similar application does it)?
- elliotpage 7y agoIf you need a bespoke dialog box to chastise you for following an expected workflow, then your user experience is lacking. The Save/Export split still catches me out. I'm not about to burn the barn down, but each time it makes me grunt in frustration.
- mFixman 7y agohttps://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/
- zapzupnz 7y ago> for following an expected workflow Practically every image editor on the planet split saving in the application's native file format and exporting to foreign file formats. Hell, even document editors do this. The expected workflow is, therefore, that exporting is a different dialogue. Not terribly hard.
- ubercow13 7y agoIs this true? As far as I remember you can save to, for example, JPEG in Photoshop and PDF in Word using the normal save dialogs.
- mopsi 7y agoPDFs have been under Export since Office 2010 for better clarity.
- baud147258 7y agoI just checked, I can still save as a pdf in Word 2016. So it's in two different places
- Crinus 7y ago> Practically every image editor on the planet I do not have many editors installed here, but Paint does have all formats on Save. Paint Shop Pro also has all formats on Save. I do not have it installed, from what i can see in the documentation[0] Paint.Net also has all formats on Save. LazPaint also has all formats on Save. I'm sure i can find many others if look for (i think GraphicsGale for example also does that but i'm not 100% sure). Those are from the top of my head. Maybe with "Practically every image editor" you really meant "Photoshop"? Because Photoshop isn't the be all end all of all image editors nor all image editors are meant to be Photoshop clones. [0] https://www.getpaint.net/doc/latest/FileMenu.html#8 https://www.getpaint.net/doc/latest/FileMenu.html#8
- zapzupnz 7y agoI don't use Photoshop.
- unixhero 7y agoNative file format interaction with SAVE and export as through a spooler with post processing, what's not to like.
- laurent123456 7y agoTo be fair there has not been any significant changes in 7 years (just minor improvements and bug fixes) so it doesn't make a big difference to stick with "old" versions. I've been waiting for about as long for GIMP 3 and the non-destructive editing feature, but not sure it will ever be done.
- filmor 7y ago2.6 was released in 2008, 11 years ago, and since then the gegl backend, single window mode, layer groups, color management, and lots of additional features were introduced. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP_version_history#GIMP_2.6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP_version_history#GIMP_2.6 on what you are missing out, especially by ignoring 2.10. GIMP 2.99.2 (first prerelease of the GTK3 version) is supposed to come out this year: https://www.gimp.org/news/2019/01/02/gimp-and-gegl-in-2018/ https://www.gimp.org/news/2019/01/02/gimp-and-gegl-in-2018/
- lucideer 7y agoI'm not a hugely active GIMP user, but even from a distance I've noticed significantly more changes in the past 7 years than previously. If anything it's accelerating.
- soulofmischief 7y agoWhat? GIMP has been totally reskinned and a whole lot of under-the-hood and feature changes have taken place. Do you actually read their release notes? Progress has been steady on the non-destructive editing front. It's taken a complete engine rewrite to get the necessary prerequisite features in place. Why don't you dive in and lend a hand instead of lamenting over how long it's taken?
- Crinus 7y agoI also dislike this change and i use GIMP for almost 15 years. The Export As dialog serves no purpose, the Save As dialog can support all the formats like it did before and if someone wants to save the currently edited image in another format they can use the "Save a copy as" command (which again should support all formats) which can be made to provide the exact same functionality as the Export As command and "Export" be made (and perhaps renamed to something more appropriate) to simply repeat whatever "Save a copy as" did. This was a stupid change that added absolutely nothing of value, introduced unnecessary UI complexity and the only reason the GIMP developers did not revert despite all the users requesting it is arrogance as they believe to know better than their own users (which is to be expected by anything related GNOME - see the file dialog woes). Of course GIMP is free and open source so it isn't like they owe anyone a better UX or anything, they could replace all brushes with bananas and drop all file formats except BMP and nobody would have any right to demand anything from them. But at the same time that doesn't (and shouldn't) stop others from calling stinky something that smells bad.
- this_was_posted 7y ago> This was a stupid change that added absolutely nothing of value, introduced unnecessary UI complexity and the only reason the GIMP developers did not revert despite all the users requesting it is arrogance as they believe to know better than their own users (which is to be expected by anything related GNOME - see the file dialog woes). I can imagine that they made the change due to many beginners being confused about having lost editing capabilities by storing their work as a png. The developers probably spend quite some time on the fora where users report these kinds of questions, so I don't think it is all that arrogant of them to believe that they know what causes confusion and what doesn't. Thinking that as a single user you are more knowledgeable on what is better for the over all ux than the actual developers, that I do think could be seen a little bit arrogant.
- Crinus 7y agoThis can be solved in the same way other applications that can save to multiple formats solve it: if you only use the functionality the target format supports, saving works transparently (so, e.g., you can create an image, draw an arrow and save it as a PNG). If you try to use functionality that the target format doesn't support (e.g. layers on PNG) then GIMP should display a warning dialog about it, perhaps with an option to save as a XCF instead (but not default on it). This has two additional benefits: 1. the beginner will stop be a beginner at some point, will be informed about the target format they are trying to use and will know how to save, save as, etc so this issue will stop be a problem for them and 2. it will get rid of the useless and annoying "do you want to save" warning whenever you want to create a non-XCF image file (because you already saved with "Export", you just didn't save the image as an XCF). The current approach makes the (wrong) assumption that everyone works with XCF files and only exports to other formats. This might be true for some cases, but a lot of people want to work with other formats directly.
- apexalpha 7y agoA bunch of people spend A LOT of their time developing a FOSS alternative to photoshop and the first comment online is someone bitching about a small GUI change 7 years ago. Classic open source community. Sorry to say it. This is the exact reason Libre Office looks like it's from 1996 and it stops normal users from using it.
- llukas 7y agoI was casual user of gimp for simple editing tasks. I stopped using it as gimp not only broke existing behavior but is "special" in that regard - other programs follow standard. No hard feelings :) Libre office added ribbons etc as an option. It is not forced on anybody.
- scoutt 7y agoI also use gimp for simple "cleanup" tasks and brightness/contrast. I wonder, what is the alternative you are using now, and if it's free like gimp?
- llukas 7y agoksnapshot, krita/inkscape, gwenview, darkroom, rawtherapee
- prokoudine 7y agodarkroom is called darktable :)
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y agoI doubt that many people really care that much about how Libre Office looks. They probably care more about things like the damn math being wrong unless you force recalculation, something I encounter frequently in documents created by Libre Office and read in the same version of Libre Office.
- 7y ago
- Kaiyou 7y agoI'm happy using Gimp 2.6 now, I'll be happy using it forever.
- OrgNet 7y agoI'm just starting to get used to it... (I still think about it every time I save/export, not sure why)
- harel 7y agoWhat do you consider hostile in those changes? I'm only a light user, and didn't feel any hostility...
- alpaca128 7y agoIt's not hostile but it feels completely unnecessary. I don't see any UX improvement by splitting up multiple options of a single feature into two separate menus.
- NikkiA 7y agoIt stops people saving a master copy as .xcf, then saving as png to export, then hitting Ctrl-S and thinking they've saved their master copy when they haven't. As such it is most definitely a positive change, even if it does go against my 'muscle' memory of how I used to work it, and cause me to 'doh' more often than I should.
- uryga 7y agoi think of exporting like compiling. the .xcf is the "source" (layers, non-destructive effects, vector paths, etc), and i only want to save when i'm working on that. when i want to "build" it into a flat .png that people can actually use, i export it.
- Kaiyou 7y agoIf possible, I'd like to completely get rid of everything xcf inside gimp. It's useless overhead to me.
- Theizestooke 7y agoI'm still using 2.8 because large pictures don't make the computer chug. Maybe they fixed this.
- amiga-workbench 7y agoThat caught me out for all of two days before I got ctrl+s/ctrl+e down to muscle memory.
- teekert 7y agoIf you think you are saving all your hard work in gimp inside a JPG, you are in for a nice surprise. I think the "new" way makes much more sense.
- Kaiyou 7y agoNo, I'm not, since I know what I am doing.
- yason 7y agoI know what I'm doing, too. Thus, I can learn to use another menu item to do what I want. The save vs export change only hits against habits. It took me a while to figure it out at the time but these days I practically only ever use "Export as" because I know what I want and I know what I'm doing, and how to do it in later Gimp versions. While I didn't like the change it does make sense. Loading and saving in Gimp is about native formats. Saving to a bitmap format loses much of the data so calling it an export is quite appropriate. Before, Gimp was always nagging about whether I'm sure I want to save as jpeg because I wouldn't be saving my Gimp state that way. That wasn't pleasant either.
- Crinus 7y agoEven if you use Export to save, GIMP will complain that you didn't save the image you just saved because you wanted to use a format others can open as opposed to the format it wants to push. It is not a major issue, but it still is an annoyance you have to face constantly if you want to work with other file formats directly as opposed to treating them as second class citizens regardless of what sort of editing you are doing.
- pessimizer 7y agoIf you save a png to a jpg, you'd expect a warning. Saving an image that you're working with to a standard image format is a lossy conversion.