12 ms·

Never forget Ross. He was railroaded hard over Silk Road. https://freeross.org https://freeross.org

drwl 7y ago
just read through that, it's quite unfortunate really. Seems like another case of aaron schwartz where the justice system wanted to send a message.
- justforyou 7y ago
  Doesn't make sense that you've been downvoted.
- tptacek 7y ago
  It's Aaron Swartz, not Schwartz. If you're going to wave a bloody shirt, spell the name on it correctly. And I don't think he or his family would appreciate the comparison you're making. Swartz was ultimately prosecuted for actions which, right or wrong, were done selflessly, without remuneration, and in pursuit of a principle. Ulbricht made a fortune facilitating drug sales.
  - fxprq 7y ago
    Calm your tits, Jew.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - z3c0 7y ago
    To add, Swartz also didn't attempt any assassinations. While I see some overlap in the way that Ulbricht was made an example of, he ultimately shot himself in the foot by resorting to such nefarious means to protect himself.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - lacampbell 7y ago
      The wikipedia article for Ross Ulbricht says this: On the last day of trial, Serrin Turner, the lead prosecutor, addressed the jury and stated that none of the six contracted murders-for-hire allegations occurred.[27] One charge of procuring murder was originally filed in October 2013 in a separate pending indictment in Maryland (which was later dismissed with prejudice in its entirety in July 2018);[citation needed] the other five allegations were never filed.[37] Obviously wikipedia is not a valid source, etc etc. But I've heard the assassination thing before and I'm wondering what information we have about the alleged assassination attempts.
      - rolltiide 7y ago
        It's nice to see you are thinking about it. Yes the assassinations are not as simple as its made out to be and were used primarily for character assassination in Ross' trial and sentencing. The Maryland case was dismissed because it was a super shaky case, and would have revealed so much incompetence that it would mess this railroading up. It was later dismissed in a way that let the government retain some integrity "with prejudice [because he was already convicted]". With regard to 1 or 2 of those 6 murders for hire, corrupt DEA and Secret Service agents were stealing and extorting from Ross, including staging a fake assassination. They were tried and convicted. > No mention of Carl Mark Force IV made it into Ulbricht's trial. Neither did any mention of Shaun Bridges, the former Secret Service agent charged alongside him. The spree of crimes they committed as Silk Road investigators was under the seal of grand jury secrecy at the time. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8q845p/dea-agent-who-faked-a-murder-and-took-bitcoins-from-silk-road-explains-himself https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8q845p/dea-agent-who-fake... It doesn't help Ross' character, as this fake one had images and a person that played along for a lighter sentence/immunity and then Ross had additional fake assassinations carried out. It still hurts the government having a unilateral perception of him, because nobody was EVER trying to get people murdered in this operation until the corrupt investigators created fictional drama so that they could pocket some bitcoins. So far it hasn't mattered for the government, as Ross' appeals have all failed. Really illuminates the key areas the government can nab you: not indict you for a worse action but tell everyone about the allegations, withhold key evidence, use those allegations to deny bail, shift jury perception, and rationalize higher sentencing.
  - aianus 7y ago
    > Ulbricht made a fortune facilitating drug sales. Ulbricht lived in a tiny apartment with roommates in SF and spent his days working from the public library. It really doesn't appear like he was in it for the selfish material rewards.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      The DOJ seized tens of millions of dollars from him. I don't care where he lived.
      - johndevor 7y ago
        Maybe he would have given it to charity? It's hard to tell what his motivations are from the outside.
        tptacek 7y ago
        We should, I suppose, give every drug kingpin the benefit of this doubt.
        rolltiide 7y ago
        Yes, you should. Everyone at the top is usually far isolated from what generates the revenues, and they have their own causes and ideals for wealth just like anyone else. Vilifying money itself along side actual sanctions on it is a relatively new legal concept for the Federal government. So yes this has pervaded the culture of the Federal government's subjects, but is only a happy coincidence for the government to maintain support.
    - idlewords 7y ago
      Rents are high in SF!
modzu 7y ago
i thought the harsh sentencing was because he tried to pay a hitman to kill 5 people? edit: apparently the murder charges were dropped[0] but the evidence that he hired a hitman was deemed "unambiguous" and factored into his sentencing[1] these facts should probably be acknowledged, even if disputed, on the freeross page, otherwise it reads like propaganda. a related and interesting twist: it was an fbi informant he paid to be his hitman, who staged the murders. so nobody actually died, even though he believed they did. crazy. [0] http://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/ http://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-... [1] https://freeross.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Sentencing_2015-May-29.pdf https://freeross.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Sentencing_2...
- fru2013 7y ago
  The murder charges were also mentioned during the appeal. IANAL but listening to it sounds like it played a role in denying his appeal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2nd_Cir._oral_argument._15-1815_US_v_Ulbricht.ogv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2nd_Cir._oral_argument._1...
- anbop 7y ago
  He forgot the cardinal rule of hiring a hitman... don’t. Your probability of talking to the police or a buffoon who will get you caught is close to 100%. Actual hit men work for established criminal organizations, and don’t look on Craigslist for freelance gigs.
  - modzu 7y ago
    one has to wonder how much the fbi was involved in entrapment here
    - givinguflac 7y ago
      Agreed. Just about every “foiled terror plot” in the 00’s were people coerced into the action and provided instructions if not materials for carrying it out by the FBI.
mevile 7y ago
I have a real hard time feeling sympathy for someone who was responsible for the silk road marketplace. I really do. There are better people to feel sympathy for. Bad choices can have bad consequences.
- Miner49er 7y ago
  How was the Silk Road bad? IMO it seems the Silk Road likely reduced violence and almost certainly saved lives.
  - modzu 7y ago
    the most obvious example of harm is probably the opiod epidemic, and the deaths resulting from overdose. of course shutting down the silk road and sending addicts into the streets or to jail is probably exacerbating the risks and is certainly no solution.
    - drwl 7y ago
      I think if anything, the opioid epidemic was improved through dark web market places. I'm sure if you search on the news throughout the years, there were more overdoses related to substances sold being misrepresented or cut with something like fentanyl.
  - mevile 7y ago
    The Silk Road was bad because it circumvented the law and the ability of law enforcement to enforce the law. The law is an important thing in a democracy. The rule of law protects us, from each other and from the government. The way to change laws is through your representatives in the government, not go do your own thing. If you do go do your own thing and the law catches up to you, that is a consequence of your actions. It would be hypocritical to be upset at politicians like our president and congress for breaking laws, but then to cheer on Ross for his breaking of the law. Justice isn't a pick and choose kind of thing.
    - roywiggins 7y ago
ar_lan 7y ago
I don't - I'm not a drug user, but I have a lot of political ideologies that agree with Ross, and I certainly don't believe he deserves what happened to him.

drwl 7y ago

just read through that, it's quite unfortunate really. Seems like another case of aaron schwartz where the justice system wanted to send a message.

justforyou 7y ago
Doesn't make sense that you've been downvoted.
tptacek 7y ago
It's Aaron Swartz, not Schwartz. If you're going to wave a bloody shirt, spell the name on it correctly. And I don't think he or his family would appreciate the comparison you're making. Swartz was ultimately prosecuted for actions which, right or wrong, were done selflessly, without remuneration, and in pursuit of a principle. Ulbricht made a fortune facilitating drug sales.
- fxprq 7y ago
  Calm your tits, Jew.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- z3c0 7y ago
  To add, Swartz also didn't attempt any assassinations. While I see some overlap in the way that Ulbricht was made an example of, he ultimately shot himself in the foot by resorting to such nefarious means to protect himself.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - lacampbell 7y ago
    The wikipedia article for Ross Ulbricht says this: On the last day of trial, Serrin Turner, the lead prosecutor, addressed the jury and stated that none of the six contracted murders-for-hire allegations occurred.[27] One charge of procuring murder was originally filed in October 2013 in a separate pending indictment in Maryland (which was later dismissed with prejudice in its entirety in July 2018);[citation needed] the other five allegations were never filed.[37] Obviously wikipedia is not a valid source, etc etc. But I've heard the assassination thing before and I'm wondering what information we have about the alleged assassination attempts.
    - rolltiide 7y ago
      It's nice to see you are thinking about it. Yes the assassinations are not as simple as its made out to be and were used primarily for character assassination in Ross' trial and sentencing. The Maryland case was dismissed because it was a super shaky case, and would have revealed so much incompetence that it would mess this railroading up. It was later dismissed in a way that let the government retain some integrity "with prejudice [because he was already convicted]". With regard to 1 or 2 of those 6 murders for hire, corrupt DEA and Secret Service agents were stealing and extorting from Ross, including staging a fake assassination. They were tried and convicted. > No mention of Carl Mark Force IV made it into Ulbricht's trial. Neither did any mention of Shaun Bridges, the former Secret Service agent charged alongside him. The spree of crimes they committed as Silk Road investigators was under the seal of grand jury secrecy at the time. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8q845p/dea-agent-who-faked-a-murder-and-took-bitcoins-from-silk-road-explains-himself https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8q845p/dea-agent-who-fake... It doesn't help Ross' character, as this fake one had images and a person that played along for a lighter sentence/immunity and then Ross had additional fake assassinations carried out. It still hurts the government having a unilateral perception of him, because nobody was EVER trying to get people murdered in this operation until the corrupt investigators created fictional drama so that they could pocket some bitcoins. So far it hasn't mattered for the government, as Ross' appeals have all failed. Really illuminates the key areas the government can nab you: not indict you for a worse action but tell everyone about the allegations, withhold key evidence, use those allegations to deny bail, shift jury perception, and rationalize higher sentencing.
- aianus 7y ago
  > Ulbricht made a fortune facilitating drug sales. Ulbricht lived in a tiny apartment with roommates in SF and spent his days working from the public library. It really doesn't appear like he was in it for the selfish material rewards.
  - tptacek 7y ago
    The DOJ seized tens of millions of dollars from him. I don't care where he lived.
    - johndevor 7y ago
      Maybe he would have given it to charity? It's hard to tell what his motivations are from the outside.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        We should, I suppose, give every drug kingpin the benefit of this doubt.
        rolltiide 7y ago
        Yes, you should. Everyone at the top is usually far isolated from what generates the revenues, and they have their own causes and ideals for wealth just like anyone else. Vilifying money itself along side actual sanctions on it is a relatively new legal concept for the Federal government. So yes this has pervaded the culture of the Federal government's subjects, but is only a happy coincidence for the government to maintain support.
  - idlewords 7y ago
    Rents are high in SF!

modzu 7y ago

i thought the harsh sentencing was because he tried to pay a hitman to kill 5 people? edit: apparently the murder charges were dropped[0] but the evidence that he hired a hitman was deemed "unambiguous" and factored into his sentencing[1] these facts should probably be acknowledged, even if disputed, on the freeross page, otherwise it reads like propaganda. a related and interesting twist: it was an fbi informant he paid to be his hitman, who staged the murders. so nobody actually died, even though he believed they did. crazy. [0] http://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/ http://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-... [1] https://freeross.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Sentencing_2015-May-29.pdf https://freeross.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Sentencing_2...

fru2013 7y ago
The murder charges were also mentioned during the appeal. IANAL but listening to it sounds like it played a role in denying his appeal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2nd_Cir._oral_argument._15-1815_US_v_Ulbricht.ogv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2nd_Cir._oral_argument._1...
anbop 7y ago
He forgot the cardinal rule of hiring a hitman... don’t. Your probability of talking to the police or a buffoon who will get you caught is close to 100%. Actual hit men work for established criminal organizations, and don’t look on Craigslist for freelance gigs.
- modzu 7y ago
  one has to wonder how much the fbi was involved in entrapment here
  - givinguflac 7y ago
    Agreed. Just about every “foiled terror plot” in the 00’s were people coerced into the action and provided instructions if not materials for carrying it out by the FBI.

mevile 7y ago

I have a real hard time feeling sympathy for someone who was responsible for the silk road marketplace. I really do. There are better people to feel sympathy for. Bad choices can have bad consequences.

Miner49er 7y ago
How was the Silk Road bad? IMO it seems the Silk Road likely reduced violence and almost certainly saved lives.
- modzu 7y ago
  the most obvious example of harm is probably the opiod epidemic, and the deaths resulting from overdose. of course shutting down the silk road and sending addicts into the streets or to jail is probably exacerbating the risks and is certainly no solution.
  - drwl 7y ago
    I think if anything, the opioid epidemic was improved through dark web market places. I'm sure if you search on the news throughout the years, there were more overdoses related to substances sold being misrepresented or cut with something like fentanyl.
- mevile 7y ago
  The Silk Road was bad because it circumvented the law and the ability of law enforcement to enforce the law. The law is an important thing in a democracy. The rule of law protects us, from each other and from the government. The way to change laws is through your representatives in the government, not go do your own thing. If you do go do your own thing and the law catches up to you, that is a consequence of your actions. It would be hypocritical to be upset at politicians like our president and congress for breaking laws, but then to cheer on Ross for his breaking of the law. Justice isn't a pick and choose kind of thing.
  - roywiggins 7y ago

ar_lan 7y ago

I don't - I'm not a drug user, but I have a lot of political ideologies that agree with Ross, and I certainly don't believe he deserves what happened to him.