4 ms·

Could somebody explain to me the vicious American hate for China from a totally uninformed viewpoint? Any links to read why I should also dislike China?

yourbandsucks 7y ago
“It was the rise of Athens, and the fear that this instilled in Sparta, that made war inevitable.”
jorblumesea 7y ago
I don't think being suspicious of a country that has its citizens in literal concentration camps is "vicious hate". It's not a bad thing to turn a critical eye towards authoritarian states and questions their money and motives. Likewise, people should be critical of the US and its role in human rights violations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://www.france24.com/en/20190510-reporters-plus-surviving-china-uighur-camps-repression https://www.france24.com/en/20190510-reporters-plus-survivin... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/the-west-ignored-crimes-against-humanity-in-the-1930s-its-happening-again-now/2019/02/15/d17d4998-3130-11e9-813a-0ab2f17e305b_story.html?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/the-...
- entropea 7y ago
  USA has 2.3 million incarcerated and prison slavery is legal under the 13th amendment, a lot incarcerated based on race and for very small crimes. A lot of those prisons also have very rough conditions and prisoners are exposed to violent and inhumane treatment. This is extremely unethical. Why is this any different? Companies send their work to these prisons for literal slave labor and I never see anyone up in arms about it. Not many seem to be critical of their own government, but love judging other governments. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2018.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2018.html
  - z0r 7y ago
    Not many seem to be critical of their own government? Have you spent much time online? And you're pulling out whataboutism in reply to a comment that ends with "Likewise, people should be critical of the US and its role in human rights violations."
  - jorblumesea 7y ago
    Ah, so you weren't asking a legitimate question, you were just baiting.
lenzm 7y ago
From a very broad moral perspective, their human rights violations are legion[1] including large open air internment camps for ethnic/religious minorities like the Uyghur[2], political imprisonment[3], alleged organ harvesting of prisoners[4], supporting North Korea ... From a purely tech perspective, state-sponsored hacking[5] and IP theft[6] are common. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps [3] https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/china-and-tibet https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/china... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... [5] https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/state-hacking-12202018162931.html https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/state-hacking-1220201... [6] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/1-in-5-companies-say-china-stole-their-ip-within-the-last-year-cnbc.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/1-in-5-companies-say-china-s...
- entropea 7y ago
  Those are all things the USA has done in its past, and currently holds 2.3 million in prison with prison slavery legalized. Some of those are just "alleged" too.
  - everdrive 7y ago
    Another equivocator. I can't think of a lazier argument.
    - dang 7y ago
      Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
- yourbandsucks 7y ago
  It kinda proves OP's point that Americans would be so outraged about somebody else violating the rights of muslims..
- 7y ago
darkpuma 7y ago
Can you establish that such a "vicious hatred" even exists?
espeed 7y ago
IP theft, copycat tech, and forced technology transfer [1] (US corps giving their IP to gain access to the market). [1] https://econofact.org/what-is-the-problem-of-forced-technology-transfer-in-china https://econofact.org/what-is-the-problem-of-forced-technolo...
dang 7y ago
> vicious American hate for China Nationalistic flamebait is not ok on HN. Would you please stop posting that, and political flamebait in general, so we don't have to ban you again? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
umeshunni 7y ago
You're being downvoted heavily (not surprising for a site with a strong US/Western audience), but here's what I think: China is emerging geopolitical rival (balance) to the US (and the West in general). Mainstream US media is great at amplifying US govt propaganda and publishing hit pieces on US rivals (see media portrayals of Soviet Union during the Cold war as an example: https://www.e-ir.info/2013/10/26/the-role-of-the-media-during-the-cold-war/ https://www.e-ir.info/2013/10/26/the-role-of-the-media-durin... ) or of Japan during the 80s (see https://spice.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/japan_in_the_us_press_bias_and_stereotypes https://spice.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/japan_in_the_us_press_bi...). The same is happening against China now and there is an effort to shame anyone with contacts with China.
- ddxv 7y ago
  Found you comment at the bottom of the comment section. Feels like the only safe place here. I've been noticing that the past few years there has been a sharp uptick in vitriolic statements about China. There was a great look at American 'propaganda' in one of the China in Africa podcast where they were debating whether Voice of America is American propaganda. I think their specific debate was about the term collateral debt in relation to the infrastructure projects China has undertaken in Africa and the agreements that support them. It really helped me see that while the term is still sharply defined when speaking about "other" nation's propaganda, American's have a very difficult time extracting ideas which were put out by the American government and picked up as talking points by the media. I don't know if propaganda is still the correct term anymore, but it at least feels like group think, which worries me.
DeonPenny 7y ago
P theft, copycat tech, forced technology transfer, threatening US soldier, aggression toward US allies i.e. japan, taiwan, india
- ionised 7y ago
  Why are you and the poster above you (espeed) posting the exact same sentences under different user names?

yourbandsucks 7y ago

“It was the rise of Athens, and the fear that this instilled in Sparta, that made war inevitable.”

jorblumesea 7y ago

I don't think being suspicious of a country that has its citizens in literal concentration camps is "vicious hate". It's not a bad thing to turn a critical eye towards authoritarian states and questions their money and motives. Likewise, people should be critical of the US and its role in human rights violations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://www.france24.com/en/20190510-reporters-plus-surviving-china-uighur-camps-repression https://www.france24.com/en/20190510-reporters-plus-survivin... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/the-west-ignored-crimes-against-humanity-in-the-1930s-its-happening-again-now/2019/02/15/d17d4998-3130-11e9-813a-0ab2f17e305b_story.html?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/the-...

entropea 7y ago
USA has 2.3 million incarcerated and prison slavery is legal under the 13th amendment, a lot incarcerated based on race and for very small crimes. A lot of those prisons also have very rough conditions and prisoners are exposed to violent and inhumane treatment. This is extremely unethical. Why is this any different? Companies send their work to these prisons for literal slave labor and I never see anyone up in arms about it. Not many seem to be critical of their own government, but love judging other governments. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2018.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2018.html
- z0r 7y ago
  Not many seem to be critical of their own government? Have you spent much time online? And you're pulling out whataboutism in reply to a comment that ends with "Likewise, people should be critical of the US and its role in human rights violations."
- jorblumesea 7y ago
  Ah, so you weren't asking a legitimate question, you were just baiting.

lenzm 7y ago

From a very broad moral perspective, their human rights violations are legion[1] including large open air internment camps for ethnic/religious minorities like the Uyghur[2], political imprisonment[3], alleged organ harvesting of prisoners[4], supporting North Korea ... From a purely tech perspective, state-sponsored hacking[5] and IP theft[6] are common. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps [3] https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/china-and-tibet https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/china... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... [5] https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/state-hacking-12202018162931.html https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/state-hacking-1220201... [6] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/1-in-5-companies-say-china-stole-their-ip-within-the-last-year-cnbc.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/1-in-5-companies-say-china-s...

entropea 7y ago
Those are all things the USA has done in its past, and currently holds 2.3 million in prison with prison slavery legalized. Some of those are just "alleged" too.
- everdrive 7y ago
  Another equivocator. I can't think of a lazier argument.
  - dang 7y ago
    Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
yourbandsucks 7y ago
It kinda proves OP's point that Americans would be so outraged about somebody else violating the rights of muslims..
7y ago

darkpuma 7y ago

Can you establish that such a "vicious hatred" even exists?

espeed 7y ago

IP theft, copycat tech, and forced technology transfer [1] (US corps giving their IP to gain access to the market). [1] https://econofact.org/what-is-the-problem-of-forced-technology-transfer-in-china https://econofact.org/what-is-the-problem-of-forced-technolo...

dang 7y ago

> vicious American hate for China Nationalistic flamebait is not ok on HN. Would you please stop posting that, and political flamebait in general, so we don't have to ban you again? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

umeshunni 7y ago

You're being downvoted heavily (not surprising for a site with a strong US/Western audience), but here's what I think: China is emerging geopolitical rival (balance) to the US (and the West in general). Mainstream US media is great at amplifying US govt propaganda and publishing hit pieces on US rivals (see media portrayals of Soviet Union during the Cold war as an example: https://www.e-ir.info/2013/10/26/the-role-of-the-media-during-the-cold-war/ https://www.e-ir.info/2013/10/26/the-role-of-the-media-durin... ) or of Japan during the 80s (see https://spice.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/japan_in_the_us_press_bias_and_stereotypes https://spice.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/japan_in_the_us_press_bi...). The same is happening against China now and there is an effort to shame anyone with contacts with China.

ddxv 7y ago
Found you comment at the bottom of the comment section. Feels like the only safe place here. I've been noticing that the past few years there has been a sharp uptick in vitriolic statements about China. There was a great look at American 'propaganda' in one of the China in Africa podcast where they were debating whether Voice of America is American propaganda. I think their specific debate was about the term collateral debt in relation to the infrastructure projects China has undertaken in Africa and the agreements that support them. It really helped me see that while the term is still sharply defined when speaking about "other" nation's propaganda, American's have a very difficult time extracting ideas which were put out by the American government and picked up as talking points by the media. I don't know if propaganda is still the correct term anymore, but it at least feels like group think, which worries me.

DeonPenny 7y ago

P theft, copycat tech, forced technology transfer, threatening US soldier, aggression toward US allies i.e. japan, taiwan, india

ionised 7y ago
Why are you and the poster above you (espeed) posting the exact same sentences under different user names?