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Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

255 points by nbrempel 7y ago

LinuxBender 7y ago
Does this mean people will have to refill their prescription medications into the same bottle?
- stronglikedan 7y ago
  Probably wouldn't work, since a lot of people get refills before they run out. Maybe glass bottles, or bottles made of paper like those insufferable paper straws?
- makerofspoons 7y ago
  Why can't prescriptions come in recyclable paper boxes, or glass bottles for liquids?
  - OrgNet 7y ago
    Can you make an air-tight recyclable paper box? So that humidity/etc doesn't get in the pills
    - fooblitzky 7y ago
      Seems like an ideal use case for a glass jar.
      - alacombe 7y ago
        Glass breaks.
- rocky1138 7y ago
  This is a great idea and follows many of the behaviours found around the world for refilling existing containers rather than starting anew each time. https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/waitrose-plastic-packaging-supermarkets-uk-britain/ https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/waitrose-plastic-pa...
no1youknowz 7y ago
This can only be a good thing. There are now alternatives to plastic from biodegradable materials such as lobster shells and cactus juice. I'm sure with more research and better methods, mother nature can offer more materials to use for consumption tools. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBSzxQLQSpI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBSzxQLQSpI [1]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-48497933/how-to-make-biodegradable-plastic-from-cactus-juice https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-48497933/how-to-make-b...
- gdcohen 7y ago
  And this: https://nextshark.com/banana-leaves-asia-plastic-packaging/ https://nextshark.com/banana-leaves-asia-plastic-packaging/
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Not really a recent development though. In the late seventies, or early eighties there were already biodegradable and compostable plastics. One UK supermarket used one of them for trays and bags around the same time, and printed the fact on every one. I forget whether they were compostable or just biodegradable. Yet eventually that chain switched back to oil derived plastic like everyone else. Presumably price won. Here's one from fermented sugars that ICI came up with in the early 80s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyhydroxyalkanoates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyhydroxyalkanoates
- the_pwner224 7y ago
  PLA plastic is made from just organic materials. It degrades into lactic acid, and is safely used for medical implants. It doesn't degrade naturally at normal temperatures, but can be effectively recycled, composted, or incinerated. Right now it mostly gets thrown away into the environment like most trash, but is a sustainable plastic if handled properly. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polylactic_acid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polylactic_acid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic
mabbo 7y ago
It's an election year. Trudeau wants a second term. But he's turned off much of his traditional centrist base (corruption allegations, many of us realizing he's actually not very smart, etc). He's got new leaders on both the Conservative party (the right) and the NDP (the left) who are trying to squeeze the votes out of middle. He knows he's got little chance of winning back anyone right of center- the Conservatives will take those votes most likely- so he's going after the votes on the left. The plastic ban and the finally reopened marine mammal captivity bans are both moves to appeal to the environmentalist left. He'll probably also try to win over unions as much as he can. He wants to eat the NDP votes and hope it's enough to make up his loss on the right. And I'll still probably vote for him again because the alternatives are somehow worse.
- ghettoCoder 7y ago
  How are they worse? If he's stuck in a cycle of corruption allegations, appearing unintelligent or poorly prepared like you claim, and is openly and blatantly buying votes I can only imagine the alternatives must be incredibly poor for you to consider voting for him again. Somehow I doubt the alternatives that bad or even that different from. It's like religion, the more two religions are the same the more they hate the other. Or have you bought into the negativity that every party sows against their opponents in the hopes of securing peoples votes against their better judgement.
Tiktaalik 7y ago
This sort of policy is somewhat of a distraction from the wildly more important goal of reducing CO2 emissions. A single use plastics ban is fine if it is a minor part of a more comprehensive policy that is focused on CO2 emissions, but by itself, eh, this is not really our most pressing issue in the near term is it? (of course we should reduce single use plastics eventually) This government has been very uneven on climate issues so I'm not expecting them to announce a ban on CO2 emitting power generation tomorrow or anything. My concern is that announcing this policy so soon after the NDP announced the same thing in their rather bold environmental package is merely part of an attempt to boost their environmentalist cred and blunt the impact of rival environmentalist parties while changing the channel away from their weaker CO2 reduction efforts.
- Kluny 7y ago
  > merely part of an attempt to boost their environmentalist cred and blunt the impact rival environmentalist parties while in actuality doing the absolute minimum Yeah, it fully is. The major parties in Canada are slowly, and much too late, getting the message that the environment is the biggest election issue this year. They haven't been taking it seriously at all til now, hence this kind of bandwagon jumping. We're still going to hold them to the promise though.
  - nickelcitymario 7y ago
    > the environment is the biggest election issue this year Is it? It should be, but I'm pretty sure the biggest election issue is always going to be the economy. That being said, maybe the advantage is that the environment is becoming less of a partisan issue. Anecdotally, my left- and right-wing friends and family seem to be coming closer to a consensus that we need to act. Still, it's easy to say "we need to fix the environment". My own city council voted unanimously on a resolution to slash our city's greenhouse gas production. But then when it comes to specific proposals on what that would look like, such as saying "no" to building a new convention centre or new highways, suddenly there's no political will. "Something should absolutely be done... as long as it doesn't cost us anything." So we'll ban single use plastics (barely effective, but very popular), but we won't cut back on exploiting the Alberta oil sands, or on deforestation for that matter (both of which would have a tremendous impact, but at great economic and political cost).
Tiktaalik 7y ago
Not mentioned in this article but worth noting that the City of Vancouver was interested in pursuing a single use plastics ban taking effect this summer in 2019, but backed away when disability rights activists protested that plastic straws are very important for people with mobility challenges, and they considered the non-plastic alternative straws available to be poor and not viable options.
- nickserv 7y ago
  What's wrong with carrying your own stainless steel straw? I mean if you know you need one it makes sense to me to have your own. Not being snarky, just curious.
  - ahjushi 7y ago
    It's tough because sometimes these things can feel like a "tax", i.e. the general public does not need this item so they don't purchase it, but I now have to since there are no longer any alternatives. Seems like perhaps an inconsequential amount for a straw, but it's just another cost most people don't need to consider and shoulder (mobility tools like wheelchairs, maybe specific medicines, etc.). It all adds up.
    - nickserv 7y ago
      If cost is an issue, they should be provided by the health care system for those that need them. But from the other answers it looks like it's more of a problem that they're stainless per se (hard material, need to be washed and carried).
  - Tiktaalik 7y ago
    I don't know, but I know from articles in the local paper that the existing alternatives weren't considered ideal. I'd venture that if your dexterity is poor enough that you require a straw to drink instead of being able to drink strawless, a lot of the other tasks associated with carrying around one's own metal straw (ie. taking it out of a bag, putting it in a drink, washing it after) may also be overly challenging.
kilo_bravo_3 7y ago
Hopefully mankind's addiction to single-use plastics and the negligent disposal of all plastics can be stopped before exposure to, inhalation of, and ingestion of large quantities of microscopic shards of poly-whatever start shredding and poisoning our bodies from the inside.
- benj111 7y ago
  "microscopic shards of poly-whatever start shredding and poisoning our bodies from the inside" Is there any evidence that this could happen? It's the first I've heard of it.
  - kilo_bravo_3 7y ago
    The effect has only been seen in aquatic animals so far, but they are exposed to much more microplastics than humans are. But microplastics don't (on a human timescale) go away. They just continue to accumulate as plastic items degrade in UV light and water, breaking down into smaller and smaller pieces. Microplastics have been detected in the feces of humans: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/10/22/659568662/microplastics-are-turning-up-everywhere-even-in-human-excrement https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/10/22/659568662/mi... And the bottom of the Marianas trench: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/12/microplastic-pollution-is-found-in-deep-sea/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/12/micro... And they're harmful to sea life: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/from-fish-to-humans-a-microplastic-invasion-may-be-taking-a-toll/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/from-fish-to-huma... And smaller microplastic particles, which all larger particles eventually become, can float through the air. It is not unreasonable to assume that the problem is going to keep getting worse and worse as time goes on until it gets to a point where every breath we take is contaminated shards of plastics: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Photographs-of-microplastics-under-the-stereomicroscope-fiber-a-b-c-film-d-e-f_fig2_324040524 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Photographs-of-microplas... https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/micro... I'm not a doctor, or a plasticsologist, or a breathing-things-in-ologist, but breathing in large quantities of plastic shards seems less healthy than not doing so and just from a layman's perspective it seems that exposure to microplastics in the air and water should be minimized to the greatest extent possible.
davidy123 7y ago
While I fully support this ban, even if it's not that much more than a gesture in the larger issue of carbon and the environment, I think it's largely related to the very public and embarrassing row over badly sorted garbage sent to the Philippines. https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/canadian-garbage-from-philippines-departure-1.5156007 https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/canadian-garbage-from-phi... That incident is however an indication of how difficult it is to properly dispose of single-use plastics, and this will help solve that problem.
- pesfandiar 7y ago
  There's a federal election in Canada in October, and based on polls, the governing party is losing some votes to the Green Party. This could be more directly explained by that, but I agree that it's certainly a positive side effect regardless.
  - fooblitzky 7y ago
    Don't forget it's the same government investing billions of dollars in petrochemical plants[1] to manufacture.... more plastic. [1] https://globalnews.ca/news/4857778/canadian-petrochemical-growth-plastics https://globalnews.ca/news/4857778/canadian-petrochemical-gr...
gnicholas 7y ago
> The World Economic Forum estimates that 90 percent of the plastic ending up in the oceans comes from 10 major rivers, and that currently there are 50 million tons of plastic in the world’s oceans." from the WEF: researchers were able to estimate that just 10 river systems carry 90% of the plastic that ends up in the ocean. Eight of them are in Asia: the Yangtze; Indus; Yellow; Hai He; Ganges; Pearl; Amur; Mekong; and two in Africa – the Nile and the Niger. [1] It seems odd to mention that nearly all of the plastic waste comes from 10 major rivers and then not to name them (or mention that all of them are a world away from Canada). 1: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti...
- Amygaz 7y ago
  Maybe we could have a country-specific tag on plastic, like doping the plastic of the 10 largest countries per GDP. We would find out within a year where things are going and from whom. Not that it really matters in the end, but politicians and blame games going hand in hand, that be 'entertaining'...
- petschge 7y ago
  It's not quite that simple to absolve Canada (and Europe and the US) from their responsibility for this problem. Quite a bit of the plastic that ends up in those rivers far away was exported "for recycling" to the countries where it gets miss-handled and ends up in the landscape.
  - gnicholas 7y ago
    Sure, everyone needs to do their part. But people hear about the pacific garbage patch, and they might think that laws like this will materially affect phenomena like this. But it's possible (I'm not an expert) that a law like this would have very little impact because the vast majority of the trash comes from different regions.
    - JeffreyKaine 7y ago
barking 7y ago
Canada is not where the problem is at, so to speak By analyzing the waste found in the rivers and surrounding landscape, researchers were able to estimate that just 10 river systems carry 90% of the plastic that ends up in the ocean. Eight of them are in Asia: the Yangtze; Indus; Yellow; Hai He; Ganges; Pearl; Amur; Mekong; and two in Africa – the Nile and the Niger. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti...
- manishsharan 7y ago
  Third world countries follow First world countries. In India, not too long ago, cheap roadside restaurants(dhabas) used plates made out of leaves and served tea in cups made out of clay. Now that is considered a sign of primitiveness and poverty. If first world nations change their attitude towards plastics, the third world nations will follow suit eventually.
  - seltzered_ 7y ago
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/confessions-of-a-trash-tourist-india/373118/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/co... covers this topic well. "I was surprised to learn that the average Bangalorean throws out very little trash: about a pound of garbage per day, or the weight of a grapefruit. The average American generates more than four times that amount, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, or more than seven times that amount, according to a more rigorous methodology developed by Columbia University and the BioCycle trade journal. We’ve nearly doubled our per capita output of garbage since 1960, to the point where we now generate 50 percent more trash than Western Europeans and two to three times more than the Japanese." "As I wound my way through Bangalore’s streets in the Daily Dump van, I spotted numerous American brands out the window: Nike, Tommy Hilfiger, Levi’s, McDonald’s, Pizza Hut. But the United States doesn’t just export products to India—it exports a culture of consumption, backed by billions in advertising dollars."
  - einr 7y ago
    If first world nations change their attitude towards plastics, the third world nations will follow suit eventually. Eventually? Several Indian states have already banned single use plastic bottles and polystyrene food packaging, etc. The Indian government has also already banned lightweight plastic bags nationwide. So has Tanzania, Eritrea, Djibouti, Gabon, Gambia, Haiti, Ivory Coast, Malawi, Namibia, Kenya, Rwanda, Mali, Morocco and many other "third world nations". In fact, if you look at the list and map¤, it's saturated with bans in "third world nations" while most rich countries are dragging their feet or ignoring the problem. After all, we can just export our garbage to Africa, right? ¤ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_lightweight_plastic_bags https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_lightweight_plast...
blobbers 7y ago
YES. The minute we accepted garbage as a fact of life, we started down the incorrect path. Hoping society can start correcting it.
jayess 7y ago
Can anyone answer whether plastic recycling actually happens? I've tried to search around before but can't find much concrete data on how/where plastic can actually be recycled and what it is recycled into.
- olejorgenb 7y ago
  Plastic bottles are recycled/downcycled when collected properly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PET_bottle_recycling#Global_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PET_bottle_recycling#Global_st...
- fooblitzky 7y ago
  About 9% is recycled: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/03/06/only-9-of-the-worlds-plastic-is-recycled https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/03/06/only-9-o... Recycled is really a misnomer though, more of a marketing term. Plastic can only be down-cycled. E.g. used food containers can never be recycled into new containers to hold food ever again. Usually after a couple of hops it's roadbase or landfill.
ridicter 7y ago
I see comments pointing out that the majority of plastic pollution in oceans come from Asia/Africa. This is true, but there are two points worth considering: 1) Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country (and if it gets into the oceans, to everyone). In other words, you're not paying the true cost of that item--economically and to society and the environment. 2) As linked elsewhere: first world nations often export their trash to third world nations, masquerading as recycled materials - see spat with Philippines - https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/canadian-garbage-from-philippines-departure-1.5156007 https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/canadian-garbage-from-phi...
- sampo 7y ago
  > first world nations often export their trash to third world nations Not anymore, pretty much all Asian countries have stopped accepting plastic trash.
  - Amygaz 7y ago
    Plastic pollution didn't just happen in the past few months. It's been decades.
  - uhhhhhhh 7y ago
    They still have tons of it to dispose of, and still have lower regulations/controls on how it gets disposed of. And now there is a backlog of recycling plastics in north america that is increasingly likely to get thrown in landfills, some of that may make it to waterways.
    - sampo 7y ago
      Past 10 years, Europe is increasing burning waste for generating electricity, and heat for district heating. Especially Sweden is burning 50% of the waste they generate. Waste plastic makes pretty good fuel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration#Incineration_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration#Incineration_in_E...
radcon 7y ago
Weren't plastic bags created because they have a significantly smaller environmental impact than paper? You need to re-use a paper bag at least 3 times before it's better than using a plastic bag[1]. And let's face it, no one re-uses those flimsy paper bags from grocery stores, but they're becoming the standard wherever plastic is banned. Those "environmentally friendly" re-usable grocery bags aren't much better either. Depending on the material, they need to be used anywhere from 30 to 300+ times before they're less harmful than plastic bags[2]. Am I missing something or are regulators overreacting here? Clearly some countries have serious litter issues (sounds like the vast majority comes from Asia and Africa), but does that justify the rest of the world trading one type of pollution for another? Are we even fixing the problem or just making ourselves feel better? [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/life-cycle-assessment-of-supermarket-carrierbags-a-review-of-the-bags-available-in-2006 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/life-cycle-assess... [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/09/to-tote-or-note-to-tote/498557/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/09/to-to...
- nostromo 7y ago
  It really depends on what you're measuring. Plastic bags are very bad when they end up in rivers or the ocean. But yes, plastic bags might be better on CO2 depending on where they are made and how they are shipped. But paper bags can be made carbon neutral, which is fundamentally impossible with plastic bags.
  - olejorgenb 7y ago
    It's possible to make synthetic petroleum products from CO2, water and electricity, so it's not fundamentally impossible.
- xfitm3 7y ago
  I think regulators are overreacting - its a feel good PR move. I require straws and paper straws are total garbage. It's an insult. And no, I am not going to carry a straw in my pocket.
  - 7y ago
nostromo 7y ago
I really wish they would include exceptions for biodegradable plastics -- which are increasingly indistinguishable from polymer plastics. When you ban "single use" plastics, people often buy "multi-use" plastics -- which are actually worse for the environment if not used many times, and people often only use them once. There are a number of stores around me where they have thick, heavy plastic bags for purchase for 5 cents that I doubt are actually being reused much at all.
- Kluny 7y ago
  Biodegradable plastics are not more environmentally friendly than normal ones. Here's some more info about that. https://vancouverisland.surfrider.org/compostable-plastics-101/ https://vancouverisland.surfrider.org/compostable-plastics-1...
  - nostromo 7y ago
    ... according to a "a student researcher from UVic who assisted" a surfing advocacy organization and some other randos. Yes, litter will still be an issue, and no, you shouldn't just throw compostable things on the beach -- but comparing polymers which will float in the ocean for hundreds of years vs some compressed corn starch is no contest.
    - Kluny 7y ago
      Look, this is my organization (Surfrider) and we put on a talk to learn about compostables. Two of the others were professionals who run industrial composting facilities. If you want a better source you can check out the 5 Gyres report linked in the article (BAN Report). It shows time-lapse photographs of so-called biodegradable items over time. The term biodegradable is itself problematic - everything is biodegradable including normal plastic. That just means that it breaks down into smaller bits that animals mistake for food and starve on. There are a lot of things wrong with compostable plastic as well. The idea that it's somehow better is greenwashing, and makes people think it's a good enough alternative, so they can stop putting further effort into reducing their consumption. It's still a single use item that's wasting resources. Compostable plastic isn't recyclable, so when it gets into plastic recycling streams it degrades the quality of the end product. It also isn't going to break down in your backyard green bin - it needs to be subjected to industrial composting processes, and even then it will take much longer than normal kitchen scraps to break down. A load of plastic contaminated with PLA items and a load of compost contaminated with PLA items will both end up in the landfill because they are worthless. There just aren't enough advantages, and compostable plastics need to be included in all upcoming plastic bans.
stronglikedan 7y ago
Perhaps the answer isn't looking towards recyclable, reusable, or biodegradable plastics, but digestible plastics? This is coming from a complete layman on the topic, but something that randomly popped into my head.
sunkenvicar 7y ago
For decades I have meticulously washed and sorted my blue bin recyclables. Now they are banning plastics because people on the other side of the world treat their rivers as garbage dumps. I don’t litter. Don’t punish me. I see this as a cynical re-election strategy. The election is in four months and the polls are not looking good for Trudeau. Awash in scandal and forseeing a strong Conservative turnout, he’s trying to grab votes from the Greens and NDP.
- srj 7y ago
  Your blue bin recyclables were shipped to Asia and then dumped into a river. There's no economic sense to plastic recycling. The only viable strategies are to standardize on reuse or promote materials that are recyclable (i.e. aluminum).
  - brandon272 7y ago
    Not to mention that plenty of people are not "meticulously washing and sorting" their recyclables and the popular method of single stream recycling is producing contaminated recycling streams filled with trash and non-compliant items. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-era-of-easy-recycling-may-be-coming-to-an-end/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-era-of-easy-recycli...
- mmartinson 7y ago
  The problem is, it seems like much of the careful recycling didn't really work. It was never a circular system, just one in which a couple extra uses could be rinsed out due to some extra shipping capacity on container ships making it cheap to get it overseas. How would it be for you if instead of a ban, a heavy disposal fee was added at the time of purchase to fund extensive waste sorting and recycling locally? How much is single use convenience worth to you? $1 per plastic fork? It may be an awkward vote grab, but it's an glaring problem nonetheless.
  - kmlx 7y ago
    "How would it be for you if instead of a ban, a heavy disposal fee was added at the time of purchase to fund extensive waste sorting and recycling locally?" how about the recycling companies pay us instead? we provide them with the raw materials, they profit. see plastic bottles' recycling all across europe. or the (ancient) glass bottles.
jasonhansel 7y ago
I find it amazing that plastic has only been around for less than a century, but has now become so ubiquitous and commonplace that it's a nuisance. Nearly all the other materials we use (wood, metal, etc.) have been around for many many centuries, but don't seem to pose the same inherent risk.
rb808 7y ago
I need bags for a bunch of things and now have to buy plastic bags online. I'd like to buy biodegradable ones, does anyone have any recommendations how to check for bags really will degrade?
- JBReefer 7y ago
  Waxed paper bags
- fooblitzky 7y ago
  You can look for logos showing the product is certified to compost in different environments, e.g.: BPI: https://bpiworld.org/BPI-Public/Program.html https://bpiworld.org/BPI-Public/Program.html OK Compost: http://www.tuv-at.be/home/ http://www.tuv-at.be/home/ There are others. Note that for most it still requires industrial composting to really decompose, and a bio-plastic bag in the ocean will be just as bad as a regular one.
  - bacon_waffle 7y ago
    > a bio-plastic bag in the ocean will be just as bad as a regular one. Curious if you could provide justification for this; do you mean that an animal could just as easily choke on a bio plastic bag as a petro plastic one? My non-biologist assumption had been that compostable plastic would just take longer to compost without the heat and high activity in a commercial situation. IOW, I think that we need to assume some fraction of manufactured stuff will always end up in the ocean, so it's better that is made from bio- than petro- materials.
m23khan 7y ago
it really does sound great but as a Canadian, this is what I think will happen: - Retail will jump right away on this bandwagon and spend massive amounts of money advertising how they have done away with single use plastic - Retail will introduce alternatives and jack up price for pretty much all their products citing cost of new materials - The plastics industry will complain about their loss in business (despite majority of single use items being imported from China) and hence will jack up prices of all their products - All manufacturers now using more expensive plastic will raise price of their products - The poor ol' Canadian will get slapped on their faces by multiple business layers because of this. - If alternatives are biodegradable, it means likely some food source or wood product will be used hence causing increase to that source which in turn will cause 'shortage' and 'high demand' and cause domino affect. Sure, great for environment but the economy over here is such that, all businesses and industries are super opportunistic and will not only pass on cost increase to the consumer, but I suspect that they will also use this as excuse to increase their profit margin. Because of our oh Canada's 'Governmental' concerns, us oh Canadians will probably end up paying 100s of dollars per year out of their own pocket...
- steve_adams_86 7y ago
  For what it's worth, we currently externalize those 100s per year into the commons, which is where this tragedy came from. We need to start paying real prices for living instead of building up a debt of damage to the earth. If that means more subsidies to those in need, great. I'll pay more in taxes _and_ inflated living costs if it means the cost of living is more realistic. I'll gladly forgo so many conveniences in life if it means systemic changes which reduce pressure on the planet. The reality is that food, energy, and many other natural resources should cost far more than they do. The primary way they've become more affordable is through externalizing costs and it's been a huge mistake.
brailsafe 7y ago
I'm pretty okay with this as a Canadian. It's been on my mind quite a bit actually. Much of the visible debris comes from momentary indulgences that are then carelessly discarded. Thats the natural way for many people, not that I agree with it. Rather than try and change their behaviour, it's an interesting thought experiment to think about the effects of not allowing such flagrantly wasteful products to be made in the first place. In Canada, much of the visible debris inland comes from cheap coffee cups and shitty packaging design—if I understand single-use plastics correctly, which I may not. It's pretty gross, and I'd like to see more innovation towards non-detrimental disposable goods. Of course, I'd also like to see a cultural increase in having pride for the cleanliness of urban areas, but that might be a pipe-dream in Western Canada outside BC (I'm from a prairie city)
DINKDINK 7y ago
Will the production of plastic waste reduce when the outlawing of thin plastics is replaced by thicker plastics? Your politician who benefits from passing feel-good legislation says yes. Reality might surprise you: "In particular, my results showed that bag bans caused sales of small (4 gallon), medium (8 gallon) and large (13 gallon) trash bags to increase by 120 percent, 64 percent and 6 percent respectively." https://theconversation.com/plastic-bag-bans-can-backfire-if-consumers-just-use-other-plastics-instead-110571 https://theconversation.com/plastic-bag-bans-can-backfire-if...
- lozenge 7y ago
  And the bottom line - "30 percent of the plastic eliminated by the ban was coming back in the form of trash bags". So, the policy was 70 percent successful. Why then all the hand-wringing?
  - DINKDINK 7y ago
    30% by mass not by pollution. The speculative aim of the legislation is to decrease pollution. It's a bit like saying alcohol abuse will go down if we ban alcohol (when the opposite happened, hardcore liquor prevalence and potency increased which increased alcohol abuse). Coase theorem shows that increasing transaction costs increases externality costs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem If you ban the giving out of thin-plastic bags because they feel bad, and then the market moves towards giving everyone a thick (more environmentally taxing and ecologically costly) 'reusable' bag, you've made the environment worse not better (despite it feeling better). Case in point: the number of times a bag needs to be reused before it was less ecologically costly far exceeds the life of the bag.
- Meai 7y ago
  I think this really needs to be solved on a human psyche level. Print a QR code on durable plastic/cloth bags that you can buy from stores and then you can check your green score after each visit to the store where you reused your bag. Make bags a fashion statement with customized prints, at that point you can even let people move over their green points to a new bag if they want a new one or it fails on them.
somerandomness 7y ago
If 90% come from 10 rivers, shouldn't we focus on monitoring those?
3xblah 7y ago
"Shoppers at East West Market in central Vancouver who decide to pay for a plastic bag are given a bag with an embarrassing logo emblazoned on it like "Into the Weird Adult Video Emporium," "Dr. Toews Wart Ointment Wholesale" or "The Colon Care Co-Op.""
- core-questions 7y ago
  I'd pay extra for those
top-news-talk 7y ago
Cool So lets trade plastic for aluminum or paper boxes lined with wax. Trading one trash of another trash!
refurb 7y ago
I’m assuming this is not ALL single use plastic? Replacing sterile plastic packages for medical devices (for example) would be incredibly challenging.
- jkaplowitz 7y ago
  No, they're still investigating what the exceptions should be but they are aware that there should be some.
Zenbit_UX 7y ago
I find it amazing that in the current political and environmental climate we live in Snapple recently decided to discontinue their infamous glass bottle in favor of a plastic one.
deathanatos 7y ago
I feel like "single-use plastics" evokes images of grocery pages, but what about trash bags? How is trash going to be moved with such a ban?
8bitsrule 7y ago
Everything we buy and throw-away has an energy cost for manufacturing, transport and disposal. We pay more for the energy and convenience and waste ... and so does the only environment we have to live in. The acceptance of throwaway has to end. We HAVE to find (or go back to) new routines which minimize those costs. Single-use plastics are a start, but we'll need to thoroughly revise manufacture, consumption and re-use across the board.

255 points by nbrempel 7y ago

LinuxBender 7y ago

Does this mean people will have to refill their prescription medications into the same bottle?

stronglikedan 7y ago
Probably wouldn't work, since a lot of people get refills before they run out. Maybe glass bottles, or bottles made of paper like those insufferable paper straws?
makerofspoons 7y ago
Why can't prescriptions come in recyclable paper boxes, or glass bottles for liquids?
- OrgNet 7y ago
  Can you make an air-tight recyclable paper box? So that humidity/etc doesn't get in the pills
  - fooblitzky 7y ago
    Seems like an ideal use case for a glass jar.
    - alacombe 7y ago
      Glass breaks.
rocky1138 7y ago
This is a great idea and follows many of the behaviours found around the world for refilling existing containers rather than starting anew each time. https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/waitrose-plastic-packaging-supermarkets-uk-britain/ https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/waitrose-plastic-pa...

no1youknowz 7y ago

This can only be a good thing. There are now alternatives to plastic from biodegradable materials such as lobster shells and cactus juice. I'm sure with more research and better methods, mother nature can offer more materials to use for consumption tools. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBSzxQLQSpI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBSzxQLQSpI [1]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-48497933/how-to-make-biodegradable-plastic-from-cactus-juice https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-48497933/how-to-make-b...

gdcohen 7y ago
And this: https://nextshark.com/banana-leaves-asia-plastic-packaging/ https://nextshark.com/banana-leaves-asia-plastic-packaging/
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Not really a recent development though. In the late seventies, or early eighties there were already biodegradable and compostable plastics. One UK supermarket used one of them for trays and bags around the same time, and printed the fact on every one. I forget whether they were compostable or just biodegradable. Yet eventually that chain switched back to oil derived plastic like everyone else. Presumably price won. Here's one from fermented sugars that ICI came up with in the early 80s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyhydroxyalkanoates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyhydroxyalkanoates
the_pwner224 7y ago
PLA plastic is made from just organic materials. It degrades into lactic acid, and is safely used for medical implants. It doesn't degrade naturally at normal temperatures, but can be effectively recycled, composted, or incinerated. Right now it mostly gets thrown away into the environment like most trash, but is a sustainable plastic if handled properly. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polylactic_acid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polylactic_acid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic

mabbo 7y ago

It's an election year. Trudeau wants a second term. But he's turned off much of his traditional centrist base (corruption allegations, many of us realizing he's actually not very smart, etc). He's got new leaders on both the Conservative party (the right) and the NDP (the left) who are trying to squeeze the votes out of middle. He knows he's got little chance of winning back anyone right of center- the Conservatives will take those votes most likely- so he's going after the votes on the left. The plastic ban and the finally reopened marine mammal captivity bans are both moves to appeal to the environmentalist left. He'll probably also try to win over unions as much as he can. He wants to eat the NDP votes and hope it's enough to make up his loss on the right. And I'll still probably vote for him again because the alternatives are somehow worse.

ghettoCoder 7y ago
How are they worse? If he's stuck in a cycle of corruption allegations, appearing unintelligent or poorly prepared like you claim, and is openly and blatantly buying votes I can only imagine the alternatives must be incredibly poor for you to consider voting for him again. Somehow I doubt the alternatives that bad or even that different from. It's like religion, the more two religions are the same the more they hate the other. Or have you bought into the negativity that every party sows against their opponents in the hopes of securing peoples votes against their better judgement.

Tiktaalik 7y ago

This sort of policy is somewhat of a distraction from the wildly more important goal of reducing CO2 emissions. A single use plastics ban is fine if it is a minor part of a more comprehensive policy that is focused on CO2 emissions, but by itself, eh, this is not really our most pressing issue in the near term is it? (of course we should reduce single use plastics eventually) This government has been very uneven on climate issues so I'm not expecting them to announce a ban on CO2 emitting power generation tomorrow or anything. My concern is that announcing this policy so soon after the NDP announced the same thing in their rather bold environmental package is merely part of an attempt to boost their environmentalist cred and blunt the impact of rival environmentalist parties while changing the channel away from their weaker CO2 reduction efforts.

Kluny 7y ago
> merely part of an attempt to boost their environmentalist cred and blunt the impact rival environmentalist parties while in actuality doing the absolute minimum Yeah, it fully is. The major parties in Canada are slowly, and much too late, getting the message that the environment is the biggest election issue this year. They haven't been taking it seriously at all til now, hence this kind of bandwagon jumping. We're still going to hold them to the promise though.
- nickelcitymario 7y ago
  > the environment is the biggest election issue this year Is it? It should be, but I'm pretty sure the biggest election issue is always going to be the economy. That being said, maybe the advantage is that the environment is becoming less of a partisan issue. Anecdotally, my left- and right-wing friends and family seem to be coming closer to a consensus that we need to act. Still, it's easy to say "we need to fix the environment". My own city council voted unanimously on a resolution to slash our city's greenhouse gas production. But then when it comes to specific proposals on what that would look like, such as saying "no" to building a new convention centre or new highways, suddenly there's no political will. "Something should absolutely be done... as long as it doesn't cost us anything." So we'll ban single use plastics (barely effective, but very popular), but we won't cut back on exploiting the Alberta oil sands, or on deforestation for that matter (both of which would have a tremendous impact, but at great economic and political cost).

Tiktaalik 7y ago

Not mentioned in this article but worth noting that the City of Vancouver was interested in pursuing a single use plastics ban taking effect this summer in 2019, but backed away when disability rights activists protested that plastic straws are very important for people with mobility challenges, and they considered the non-plastic alternative straws available to be poor and not viable options.

nickserv 7y ago
What's wrong with carrying your own stainless steel straw? I mean if you know you need one it makes sense to me to have your own. Not being snarky, just curious.
- ahjushi 7y ago
  It's tough because sometimes these things can feel like a "tax", i.e. the general public does not need this item so they don't purchase it, but I now have to since there are no longer any alternatives. Seems like perhaps an inconsequential amount for a straw, but it's just another cost most people don't need to consider and shoulder (mobility tools like wheelchairs, maybe specific medicines, etc.). It all adds up.
  - nickserv 7y ago
    If cost is an issue, they should be provided by the health care system for those that need them. But from the other answers it looks like it's more of a problem that they're stainless per se (hard material, need to be washed and carried).
- Tiktaalik 7y ago
  I don't know, but I know from articles in the local paper that the existing alternatives weren't considered ideal. I'd venture that if your dexterity is poor enough that you require a straw to drink instead of being able to drink strawless, a lot of the other tasks associated with carrying around one's own metal straw (ie. taking it out of a bag, putting it in a drink, washing it after) may also be overly challenging.

kilo_bravo_3 7y ago

Hopefully mankind's addiction to single-use plastics and the negligent disposal of all plastics can be stopped before exposure to, inhalation of, and ingestion of large quantities of microscopic shards of poly-whatever start shredding and poisoning our bodies from the inside.

benj111 7y ago
"microscopic shards of poly-whatever start shredding and poisoning our bodies from the inside" Is there any evidence that this could happen? It's the first I've heard of it.
- kilo_bravo_3 7y ago
  The effect has only been seen in aquatic animals so far, but they are exposed to much more microplastics than humans are. But microplastics don't (on a human timescale) go away. They just continue to accumulate as plastic items degrade in UV light and water, breaking down into smaller and smaller pieces. Microplastics have been detected in the feces of humans: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/10/22/659568662/microplastics-are-turning-up-everywhere-even-in-human-excrement https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/10/22/659568662/mi... And the bottom of the Marianas trench: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/12/microplastic-pollution-is-found-in-deep-sea/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/12/micro... And they're harmful to sea life: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/from-fish-to-humans-a-microplastic-invasion-may-be-taking-a-toll/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/from-fish-to-huma... And smaller microplastic particles, which all larger particles eventually become, can float through the air. It is not unreasonable to assume that the problem is going to keep getting worse and worse as time goes on until it gets to a point where every breath we take is contaminated shards of plastics: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Photographs-of-microplastics-under-the-stereomicroscope-fiber-a-b-c-film-d-e-f_fig2_324040524 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Photographs-of-microplas... https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/micro... I'm not a doctor, or a plasticsologist, or a breathing-things-in-ologist, but breathing in large quantities of plastic shards seems less healthy than not doing so and just from a layman's perspective it seems that exposure to microplastics in the air and water should be minimized to the greatest extent possible.

davidy123 7y ago

While I fully support this ban, even if it's not that much more than a gesture in the larger issue of carbon and the environment, I think it's largely related to the very public and embarrassing row over badly sorted garbage sent to the Philippines. https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/canadian-garbage-from-philippines-departure-1.5156007 https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/canadian-garbage-from-phi... That incident is however an indication of how difficult it is to properly dispose of single-use plastics, and this will help solve that problem.

pesfandiar 7y ago
There's a federal election in Canada in October, and based on polls, the governing party is losing some votes to the Green Party. This could be more directly explained by that, but I agree that it's certainly a positive side effect regardless.
- fooblitzky 7y ago
  Don't forget it's the same government investing billions of dollars in petrochemical plants[1] to manufacture.... more plastic. [1] https://globalnews.ca/news/4857778/canadian-petrochemical-growth-plastics https://globalnews.ca/news/4857778/canadian-petrochemical-gr...

gnicholas 7y ago

> The World Economic Forum estimates that 90 percent of the plastic ending up in the oceans comes from 10 major rivers, and that currently there are 50 million tons of plastic in the world’s oceans." from the WEF: researchers were able to estimate that just 10 river systems carry 90% of the plastic that ends up in the ocean. Eight of them are in Asia: the Yangtze; Indus; Yellow; Hai He; Ganges; Pearl; Amur; Mekong; and two in Africa – the Nile and the Niger. [1] It seems odd to mention that nearly all of the plastic waste comes from 10 major rivers and then not to name them (or mention that all of them are a world away from Canada). 1: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti...

Amygaz 7y ago
Maybe we could have a country-specific tag on plastic, like doping the plastic of the 10 largest countries per GDP. We would find out within a year where things are going and from whom. Not that it really matters in the end, but politicians and blame games going hand in hand, that be 'entertaining'...
petschge 7y ago
It's not quite that simple to absolve Canada (and Europe and the US) from their responsibility for this problem. Quite a bit of the plastic that ends up in those rivers far away was exported "for recycling" to the countries where it gets miss-handled and ends up in the landscape.
- gnicholas 7y ago
  Sure, everyone needs to do their part. But people hear about the pacific garbage patch, and they might think that laws like this will materially affect phenomena like this. But it's possible (I'm not an expert) that a law like this would have very little impact because the vast majority of the trash comes from different regions.
  - JeffreyKaine 7y ago

barking 7y ago

Canada is not where the problem is at, so to speak By analyzing the waste found in the rivers and surrounding landscape, researchers were able to estimate that just 10 river systems carry 90% of the plastic that ends up in the ocean. Eight of them are in Asia: the Yangtze; Indus; Yellow; Hai He; Ganges; Pearl; Amur; Mekong; and two in Africa – the Nile and the Niger. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti...

manishsharan 7y ago
Third world countries follow First world countries. In India, not too long ago, cheap roadside restaurants(dhabas) used plates made out of leaves and served tea in cups made out of clay. Now that is considered a sign of primitiveness and poverty. If first world nations change their attitude towards plastics, the third world nations will follow suit eventually.
- seltzered_ 7y ago
  https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/confessions-of-a-trash-tourist-india/373118/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/co... covers this topic well. "I was surprised to learn that the average Bangalorean throws out very little trash: about a pound of garbage per day, or the weight of a grapefruit. The average American generates more than four times that amount, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, or more than seven times that amount, according to a more rigorous methodology developed by Columbia University and the BioCycle trade journal. We’ve nearly doubled our per capita output of garbage since 1960, to the point where we now generate 50 percent more trash than Western Europeans and two to three times more than the Japanese." "As I wound my way through Bangalore’s streets in the Daily Dump van, I spotted numerous American brands out the window: Nike, Tommy Hilfiger, Levi’s, McDonald’s, Pizza Hut. But the United States doesn’t just export products to India—it exports a culture of consumption, backed by billions in advertising dollars."
- einr 7y ago
  If first world nations change their attitude towards plastics, the third world nations will follow suit eventually. Eventually? Several Indian states have already banned single use plastic bottles and polystyrene food packaging, etc. The Indian government has also already banned lightweight plastic bags nationwide. So has Tanzania, Eritrea, Djibouti, Gabon, Gambia, Haiti, Ivory Coast, Malawi, Namibia, Kenya, Rwanda, Mali, Morocco and many other "third world nations". In fact, if you look at the list and map¤, it's saturated with bans in "third world nations" while most rich countries are dragging their feet or ignoring the problem. After all, we can just export our garbage to Africa, right? ¤ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_lightweight_plastic_bags https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_lightweight_plast...

blobbers 7y ago

YES. The minute we accepted garbage as a fact of life, we started down the incorrect path. Hoping society can start correcting it.

jayess 7y ago

Can anyone answer whether plastic recycling actually happens? I've tried to search around before but can't find much concrete data on how/where plastic can actually be recycled and what it is recycled into.

olejorgenb 7y ago
Plastic bottles are recycled/downcycled when collected properly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PET_bottle_recycling#Global_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PET_bottle_recycling#Global_st...
fooblitzky 7y ago
About 9% is recycled: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/03/06/only-9-of-the-worlds-plastic-is-recycled https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/03/06/only-9-o... Recycled is really a misnomer though, more of a marketing term. Plastic can only be down-cycled. E.g. used food containers can never be recycled into new containers to hold food ever again. Usually after a couple of hops it's roadbase or landfill.

ridicter 7y ago

I see comments pointing out that the majority of plastic pollution in oceans come from Asia/Africa. This is true, but there are two points worth considering: 1) Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country (and if it gets into the oceans, to everyone). In other words, you're not paying the true cost of that item--economically and to society and the environment. 2) As linked elsewhere: first world nations often export their trash to third world nations, masquerading as recycled materials - see spat with Philippines - https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/canadian-garbage-from-philippines-departure-1.5156007 https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/canadian-garbage-from-phi...

sampo 7y ago
> first world nations often export their trash to third world nations Not anymore, pretty much all Asian countries have stopped accepting plastic trash.
- Amygaz 7y ago
  Plastic pollution didn't just happen in the past few months. It's been decades.
- uhhhhhhh 7y ago
  They still have tons of it to dispose of, and still have lower regulations/controls on how it gets disposed of. And now there is a backlog of recycling plastics in north america that is increasingly likely to get thrown in landfills, some of that may make it to waterways.
  - sampo 7y ago
    Past 10 years, Europe is increasing burning waste for generating electricity, and heat for district heating. Especially Sweden is burning 50% of the waste they generate. Waste plastic makes pretty good fuel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration#Incineration_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration#Incineration_in_E...

radcon 7y ago

Weren't plastic bags created because they have a significantly smaller environmental impact than paper? You need to re-use a paper bag at least 3 times before it's better than using a plastic bag[1]. And let's face it, no one re-uses those flimsy paper bags from grocery stores, but they're becoming the standard wherever plastic is banned. Those "environmentally friendly" re-usable grocery bags aren't much better either. Depending on the material, they need to be used anywhere from 30 to 300+ times before they're less harmful than plastic bags[2]. Am I missing something or are regulators overreacting here? Clearly some countries have serious litter issues (sounds like the vast majority comes from Asia and Africa), but does that justify the rest of the world trading one type of pollution for another? Are we even fixing the problem or just making ourselves feel better? [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/life-cycle-assessment-of-supermarket-carrierbags-a-review-of-the-bags-available-in-2006 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/life-cycle-assess... [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/09/to-tote-or-note-to-tote/498557/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/09/to-to...

nostromo 7y ago
It really depends on what you're measuring. Plastic bags are very bad when they end up in rivers or the ocean. But yes, plastic bags might be better on CO2 depending on where they are made and how they are shipped. But paper bags can be made carbon neutral, which is fundamentally impossible with plastic bags.
- olejorgenb 7y ago
  It's possible to make synthetic petroleum products from CO2, water and electricity, so it's not fundamentally impossible.
xfitm3 7y ago
I think regulators are overreacting - its a feel good PR move. I require straws and paper straws are total garbage. It's an insult. And no, I am not going to carry a straw in my pocket.
- 7y ago

nostromo 7y ago

I really wish they would include exceptions for biodegradable plastics -- which are increasingly indistinguishable from polymer plastics. When you ban "single use" plastics, people often buy "multi-use" plastics -- which are actually worse for the environment if not used many times, and people often only use them once. There are a number of stores around me where they have thick, heavy plastic bags for purchase for 5 cents that I doubt are actually being reused much at all.

Kluny 7y ago
Biodegradable plastics are not more environmentally friendly than normal ones. Here's some more info about that. https://vancouverisland.surfrider.org/compostable-plastics-101/ https://vancouverisland.surfrider.org/compostable-plastics-1...
- nostromo 7y ago
  ... according to a "a student researcher from UVic who assisted" a surfing advocacy organization and some other randos. Yes, litter will still be an issue, and no, you shouldn't just throw compostable things on the beach -- but comparing polymers which will float in the ocean for hundreds of years vs some compressed corn starch is no contest.
  - Kluny 7y ago
    Look, this is my organization (Surfrider) and we put on a talk to learn about compostables. Two of the others were professionals who run industrial composting facilities. If you want a better source you can check out the 5 Gyres report linked in the article (BAN Report). It shows time-lapse photographs of so-called biodegradable items over time. The term biodegradable is itself problematic - everything is biodegradable including normal plastic. That just means that it breaks down into smaller bits that animals mistake for food and starve on. There are a lot of things wrong with compostable plastic as well. The idea that it's somehow better is greenwashing, and makes people think it's a good enough alternative, so they can stop putting further effort into reducing their consumption. It's still a single use item that's wasting resources. Compostable plastic isn't recyclable, so when it gets into plastic recycling streams it degrades the quality of the end product. It also isn't going to break down in your backyard green bin - it needs to be subjected to industrial composting processes, and even then it will take much longer than normal kitchen scraps to break down. A load of plastic contaminated with PLA items and a load of compost contaminated with PLA items will both end up in the landfill because they are worthless. There just aren't enough advantages, and compostable plastics need to be included in all upcoming plastic bans.

stronglikedan 7y ago

Perhaps the answer isn't looking towards recyclable, reusable, or biodegradable plastics, but digestible plastics? This is coming from a complete layman on the topic, but something that randomly popped into my head.

sunkenvicar 7y ago

For decades I have meticulously washed and sorted my blue bin recyclables. Now they are banning plastics because people on the other side of the world treat their rivers as garbage dumps. I don’t litter. Don’t punish me. I see this as a cynical re-election strategy. The election is in four months and the polls are not looking good for Trudeau. Awash in scandal and forseeing a strong Conservative turnout, he’s trying to grab votes from the Greens and NDP.

srj 7y ago
Your blue bin recyclables were shipped to Asia and then dumped into a river. There's no economic sense to plastic recycling. The only viable strategies are to standardize on reuse or promote materials that are recyclable (i.e. aluminum).
- brandon272 7y ago
  Not to mention that plenty of people are not "meticulously washing and sorting" their recyclables and the popular method of single stream recycling is producing contaminated recycling streams filled with trash and non-compliant items. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-era-of-easy-recycling-may-be-coming-to-an-end/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-era-of-easy-recycli...
mmartinson 7y ago
The problem is, it seems like much of the careful recycling didn't really work. It was never a circular system, just one in which a couple extra uses could be rinsed out due to some extra shipping capacity on container ships making it cheap to get it overseas. How would it be for you if instead of a ban, a heavy disposal fee was added at the time of purchase to fund extensive waste sorting and recycling locally? How much is single use convenience worth to you? $1 per plastic fork? It may be an awkward vote grab, but it's an glaring problem nonetheless.
- kmlx 7y ago
  "How would it be for you if instead of a ban, a heavy disposal fee was added at the time of purchase to fund extensive waste sorting and recycling locally?" how about the recycling companies pay us instead? we provide them with the raw materials, they profit. see plastic bottles' recycling all across europe. or the (ancient) glass bottles.

jasonhansel 7y ago

I find it amazing that plastic has only been around for less than a century, but has now become so ubiquitous and commonplace that it's a nuisance. Nearly all the other materials we use (wood, metal, etc.) have been around for many many centuries, but don't seem to pose the same inherent risk.

rb808 7y ago

I need bags for a bunch of things and now have to buy plastic bags online. I'd like to buy biodegradable ones, does anyone have any recommendations how to check for bags really will degrade?

JBReefer 7y ago
Waxed paper bags
fooblitzky 7y ago
You can look for logos showing the product is certified to compost in different environments, e.g.: BPI: https://bpiworld.org/BPI-Public/Program.html https://bpiworld.org/BPI-Public/Program.html OK Compost: http://www.tuv-at.be/home/ http://www.tuv-at.be/home/ There are others. Note that for most it still requires industrial composting to really decompose, and a bio-plastic bag in the ocean will be just as bad as a regular one.
- bacon_waffle 7y ago
  > a bio-plastic bag in the ocean will be just as bad as a regular one. Curious if you could provide justification for this; do you mean that an animal could just as easily choke on a bio plastic bag as a petro plastic one? My non-biologist assumption had been that compostable plastic would just take longer to compost without the heat and high activity in a commercial situation. IOW, I think that we need to assume some fraction of manufactured stuff will always end up in the ocean, so it's better that is made from bio- than petro- materials.

m23khan 7y ago

it really does sound great but as a Canadian, this is what I think will happen: - Retail will jump right away on this bandwagon and spend massive amounts of money advertising how they have done away with single use plastic - Retail will introduce alternatives and jack up price for pretty much all their products citing cost of new materials - The plastics industry will complain about their loss in business (despite majority of single use items being imported from China) and hence will jack up prices of all their products - All manufacturers now using more expensive plastic will raise price of their products - The poor ol' Canadian will get slapped on their faces by multiple business layers because of this. - If alternatives are biodegradable, it means likely some food source or wood product will be used hence causing increase to that source which in turn will cause 'shortage' and 'high demand' and cause domino affect. Sure, great for environment but the economy over here is such that, all businesses and industries are super opportunistic and will not only pass on cost increase to the consumer, but I suspect that they will also use this as excuse to increase their profit margin. Because of our oh Canada's 'Governmental' concerns, us oh Canadians will probably end up paying 100s of dollars per year out of their own pocket...

steve_adams_86 7y ago
For what it's worth, we currently externalize those 100s per year into the commons, which is where this tragedy came from. We need to start paying real prices for living instead of building up a debt of damage to the earth. If that means more subsidies to those in need, great. I'll pay more in taxes _and_ inflated living costs if it means the cost of living is more realistic. I'll gladly forgo so many conveniences in life if it means systemic changes which reduce pressure on the planet. The reality is that food, energy, and many other natural resources should cost far more than they do. The primary way they've become more affordable is through externalizing costs and it's been a huge mistake.

brailsafe 7y ago

I'm pretty okay with this as a Canadian. It's been on my mind quite a bit actually. Much of the visible debris comes from momentary indulgences that are then carelessly discarded. Thats the natural way for many people, not that I agree with it. Rather than try and change their behaviour, it's an interesting thought experiment to think about the effects of not allowing such flagrantly wasteful products to be made in the first place. In Canada, much of the visible debris inland comes from cheap coffee cups and shitty packaging design—if I understand single-use plastics correctly, which I may not. It's pretty gross, and I'd like to see more innovation towards non-detrimental disposable goods. Of course, I'd also like to see a cultural increase in having pride for the cleanliness of urban areas, but that might be a pipe-dream in Western Canada outside BC (I'm from a prairie city)

DINKDINK 7y ago

Will the production of plastic waste reduce when the outlawing of thin plastics is replaced by thicker plastics? Your politician who benefits from passing feel-good legislation says yes. Reality might surprise you: "In particular, my results showed that bag bans caused sales of small (4 gallon), medium (8 gallon) and large (13 gallon) trash bags to increase by 120 percent, 64 percent and 6 percent respectively." https://theconversation.com/plastic-bag-bans-can-backfire-if-consumers-just-use-other-plastics-instead-110571 https://theconversation.com/plastic-bag-bans-can-backfire-if...

lozenge 7y ago
And the bottom line - "30 percent of the plastic eliminated by the ban was coming back in the form of trash bags". So, the policy was 70 percent successful. Why then all the hand-wringing?
- DINKDINK 7y ago
  30% by mass not by pollution. The speculative aim of the legislation is to decrease pollution. It's a bit like saying alcohol abuse will go down if we ban alcohol (when the opposite happened, hardcore liquor prevalence and potency increased which increased alcohol abuse). Coase theorem shows that increasing transaction costs increases externality costs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem If you ban the giving out of thin-plastic bags because they feel bad, and then the market moves towards giving everyone a thick (more environmentally taxing and ecologically costly) 'reusable' bag, you've made the environment worse not better (despite it feeling better). Case in point: the number of times a bag needs to be reused before it was less ecologically costly far exceeds the life of the bag.
Meai 7y ago
I think this really needs to be solved on a human psyche level. Print a QR code on durable plastic/cloth bags that you can buy from stores and then you can check your green score after each visit to the store where you reused your bag. Make bags a fashion statement with customized prints, at that point you can even let people move over their green points to a new bag if they want a new one or it fails on them.

somerandomness 7y ago

If 90% come from 10 rivers, shouldn't we focus on monitoring those?

3xblah 7y ago

"Shoppers at East West Market in central Vancouver who decide to pay for a plastic bag are given a bag with an embarrassing logo emblazoned on it like "Into the Weird Adult Video Emporium," "Dr. Toews Wart Ointment Wholesale" or "The Colon Care Co-Op.""

core-questions 7y ago
I'd pay extra for those

top-news-talk 7y ago

Cool So lets trade plastic for aluminum or paper boxes lined with wax. Trading one trash of another trash!

refurb 7y ago

I’m assuming this is not ALL single use plastic? Replacing sterile plastic packages for medical devices (for example) would be incredibly challenging.

jkaplowitz 7y ago
No, they're still investigating what the exceptions should be but they are aware that there should be some.

Zenbit_UX 7y ago

I find it amazing that in the current political and environmental climate we live in Snapple recently decided to discontinue their infamous glass bottle in favor of a plastic one.

deathanatos 7y ago

I feel like "single-use plastics" evokes images of grocery pages, but what about trash bags? How is trash going to be moved with such a ban?

8bitsrule 7y ago

Everything we buy and throw-away has an energy cost for manufacturing, transport and disposal. We pay more for the energy and convenience and waste ... and so does the only environment we have to live in. The acceptance of throwaway has to end. We HAVE to find (or go back to) new routines which minimize those costs. Single-use plastics are a start, but we'll need to thoroughly revise manufacture, consumption and re-use across the board.