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I have thought about this lately because my wife and I moved to Illinois so I could accept a job managing a machine learning team. I retired and now we are just

I have thought about this lately because my wife and I moved to Illinois so I could accept a job managing a machine learning team. I retired and now we are just now moving back to Arizona. I spent five hours yesterday watching our stuff being wrapped and put on a truck. Lots of possessions. The thing is, I have some stuff that I really like. A teak bookcase I bought in the 1970s when I got my first real job after finishing school. A huge teak desk my wife bought me 20 years ago. My wife has some furniture her grandmother had and that she grew up with. We also have art and things we have bought while traveling around the world. I see the advantages of not being encumbered by ‘stuff’ but some possessions help define our personal history and are simply a pleasure to own.

grecy 7y ago
Keep it if it brings you happiness, after all, that's the point. It's the rest of the stuff that can go. I helped a friend move last month. After we'd been to the 5 places she kept her stuff, we discovered she had 5 coffee machines, 5 cutting boards, 5 juicers, etc. etc. The things you describe make you happier and are not stuff. The things I described are just stuff.
- pjc50 7y ago
  > 5 places she kept her stuff Storage unit rental, now that's a means of preying on people who can't let go and/or move often. (It strikes me that there might be startup value in "home inventory management", although it would have to be made as frictionless as possible - wave a camera round your kitchen, inside all the cupboards, get a list of everything you own. Snoop your Amazon webpages so it can remind you not to buy things you already have.)
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    Sortly[0] might do what you're suggesting though not as simply as you described. [0] sortly.com
  - ghaff 7y ago
    Fortunately(?) I have a fair bit of storage space at home. It's definitely a battle to pull out and get rid of stuff in storage after I haven't looked or used it for a few years. It's really tempting to throw things in storage rather than make the decision to get rid of them--especially when there's some effort associated with disposing of an item.
  - eric-hu 7y ago
    You say preying, but I'm glad I was able to rent out space to store some things when I moved cities and told myself I'd move back. Turns out I didn't move back, and only went back to pick up a few things and give away the rest. I doubt I would have been able to detach from those things if I took them with me. Were the rental costs a waste? I suppose I would have saved a few hundred dollars if I could have just gotten rid of the stuff earlier, but it would have felt like a personal loss instead of a natural detachment.
    - cannonedhamster 7y ago
      Loss aversion is actually significantly powerful and difficult to overcome, but think about why, it's only very recently that humanity can easily procure anything it needs for survival with relative ease in most countries. While getting something new is exciting losing something is far harder when you never know when/if your going to be able to gain it again. It's helped humans survive throughout our history, so I wouldn't be hard on yourself that it wasn't easy to detach, you were just practicing a survival skill.
- amelius 7y ago
  > Keep it if it brings you happiness, after all, that's the point. But what if it doesn't make you happy AND selling/discarding it makes you unhappy?
  - grecy 7y ago
    ...That sounds like a strange scenario. Can you give me an example?
    - amelius 7y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding I suspect that hoarders are not necessarily happy with the stuff they collect, but they would become unhappy when they have to let go of it.
ryanmercer 7y ago
>I see the advantages of not being encumbered by ‘stuff’ but some possessions help define our personal history and are simply a pleasure to own. Indeed. I have one of those giant wooden spoons you hang on a wall that I got at goodwill for like 3$. Most people would go "that is hideous, stupid and is just taking up space, throw it away" but I go "we carried that thing around all summer one year like a scepter being incredibly goofy with it in public, I'd never throw this thing away, we had a lot of fun that summer, I haven't even seen some of those friends in a few years now". Then you get the reddit minimalist types that are like "Then take a digital photo of it and throw it away". No humanbot, I'm not like that.
abalos 7y ago
This is similar to a realization I had the other day: for many people collecting things is less about the objects and more about the memories and nostalgia and associated with those objects. I have been having a lot of "identity" problems lately, and it occurred to me that very little of what I own has any substantial story about it nor does it say much about who I am as a person. The objects we collect exist as affirmations of the identity we've chosen for ourselves.
- madengr 7y ago
  I hate seeing all this garbage from Ikea when there are plenty sturdy “antiques” made from hard woods, as opposed to sawdust, glue, and cam locks. I have a some furniture hand made from my great-grandfather, grandfather, and father. I made a nice pair of speakers. This stuff will go to my kids. Much rather buy from the Amish furniture store and pay more, than the disposable shit from Ikea.
  - mywittyname 7y ago
    Ikea has lots of products that are made of solid pine. If you use some wood glue during assembly, their stuff will stay together quite well. I have some stuff I bought 10+ years ago hold together after a half-dozen moves with some basic mods. I recently furnished my first "adult" house after years of having an Ikea apartment. I was pretty amazed at how up-market you have to go in order to exceed Ikea quality in commercial furniture. Lots of stuff sold in furniture stores is held together with hex-bolts and lock-tite anymore. Meaning you have to move up to Amish furniture if you want something higher quality. But that's like a 3-10x jump in price. I ended up spending big on couches & dining table, then used Ikea stuff in the bedrooms and offices. I feel like that's a mid-point of cost and quality.
    - asark 7y ago
      I've observed the price of furniture to run, lowest to highest, something like: Bad Ikea, Flat-Pack Furniture from Anywhere Else, Beat-Up Antiques, Good Ikea, Unfashionable but Good Antiques, Oversized Overstuffed NFM[1] crap, Actually Good New Furniture, Fashionable Antiques Not linear, there's a big jump for the last two categories. While the quality/longevity runs more like: Flat-Pack Furniture from Anywhere Else, Bad Ikea = Oversized Overstuffed NFM Crap, Good Ikea, Beat-Up Antiques, Unfasionable but Good Antiques = Fashionable Antiques = Actually Good New Furniture. Basically my conclusion's been I need to either buy good stuff (unfashionable antiques, occasionally good new stuff—fashionable antiques are out of my price range) or just get Ikea. The whole rest of the low-end market's at least as bad, and usually more expensive. Some of it pretends it's part of some non-existent middle tier of quality and is priced to match, making it the worst possible furniture to buy (oversized overstuffed NFM crap—it's also usually in a tasteless faux-antique style). I also think people who complain about Ikea's directions haven't assembled much shitty furniture from anywhere other than Ikea. It's all much worse. [1] Nebraska Furniture Mart, here used as a category.
buboard 7y ago
But if you never own them in the first place, they become forgettable. Sounds like future cities will have less of that
openoi 7y ago
I wonder to what extent this influences what is known as the "endowment effect" in economics. The particular chair I am sitting in and have for months, is it really a more valuable one because it helps me remember? Now before we are quick to agree on a 'yes' -- to what extent do memories hold us back? Your teak bookcase for example reminds you of a positive accomplishment, and its loss would untether you, generally speaking not wanting to intrude. Now imagine someone who objectively should change, perhaps because your industry is dying. Too many mementos, a sign of reluctance, resistance even to change? Yet change, wanted or not, is the one constant in our life. I realize the article is about renting to save up (-- how's that going to work, btw? After all, someone needs to charge on top of the cost of owning). But a home of one's own like in the last century, really another cradle of identity, or mistaken materialism?
- Zenbit_UX 7y ago
  I have to say, this whole trend screams of cognitive dissonance. "I can't afford to buy so I don't want to anyways..." sounds like one of the primary motivators. Renting expensive items? How's this different from leasing or renting a supercar you can't afford to show off to friends or clients? It's not. There's for sure some cases where this is a practical solution, like moving to another city for a year or two and getting some temporary furniture. But in most other cases in screams of sour grapes and businesses seeking to profit from people bad at math. Rent a coffee table for $50 a month for a few years and then be happy you don't have to move it when you change apartments? Run the math on those numbers and you'll realize you're likely a fool. Sure, if you're buying things like cheap ikea furniture it's not likely to appreciate in value but most real hardwood furniture is generational and something of an investment.
  - openoi 7y ago
    Regarding the dissonance, the this all has the side "if I don't own it, I won't feel the pain of loss" to it. Survival strategy in a precarious situation.

grecy 7y ago

Keep it if it brings you happiness, after all, that's the point. It's the rest of the stuff that can go. I helped a friend move last month. After we'd been to the 5 places she kept her stuff, we discovered she had 5 coffee machines, 5 cutting boards, 5 juicers, etc. etc. The things you describe make you happier and are not stuff. The things I described are just stuff.

pjc50 7y ago
> 5 places she kept her stuff Storage unit rental, now that's a means of preying on people who can't let go and/or move often. (It strikes me that there might be startup value in "home inventory management", although it would have to be made as frictionless as possible - wave a camera round your kitchen, inside all the cupboards, get a list of everything you own. Snoop your Amazon webpages so it can remind you not to buy things you already have.)
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  Sortly[0] might do what you're suggesting though not as simply as you described. [0] sortly.com
- ghaff 7y ago
  Fortunately(?) I have a fair bit of storage space at home. It's definitely a battle to pull out and get rid of stuff in storage after I haven't looked or used it for a few years. It's really tempting to throw things in storage rather than make the decision to get rid of them--especially when there's some effort associated with disposing of an item.
- eric-hu 7y ago
  You say preying, but I'm glad I was able to rent out space to store some things when I moved cities and told myself I'd move back. Turns out I didn't move back, and only went back to pick up a few things and give away the rest. I doubt I would have been able to detach from those things if I took them with me. Were the rental costs a waste? I suppose I would have saved a few hundred dollars if I could have just gotten rid of the stuff earlier, but it would have felt like a personal loss instead of a natural detachment.
  - cannonedhamster 7y ago
    Loss aversion is actually significantly powerful and difficult to overcome, but think about why, it's only very recently that humanity can easily procure anything it needs for survival with relative ease in most countries. While getting something new is exciting losing something is far harder when you never know when/if your going to be able to gain it again. It's helped humans survive throughout our history, so I wouldn't be hard on yourself that it wasn't easy to detach, you were just practicing a survival skill.
amelius 7y ago
> Keep it if it brings you happiness, after all, that's the point. But what if it doesn't make you happy AND selling/discarding it makes you unhappy?
- grecy 7y ago
  ...That sounds like a strange scenario. Can you give me an example?
  - amelius 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding I suspect that hoarders are not necessarily happy with the stuff they collect, but they would become unhappy when they have to let go of it.

ryanmercer 7y ago

>I see the advantages of not being encumbered by ‘stuff’ but some possessions help define our personal history and are simply a pleasure to own. Indeed. I have one of those giant wooden spoons you hang on a wall that I got at goodwill for like 3$. Most people would go "that is hideous, stupid and is just taking up space, throw it away" but I go "we carried that thing around all summer one year like a scepter being incredibly goofy with it in public, I'd never throw this thing away, we had a lot of fun that summer, I haven't even seen some of those friends in a few years now". Then you get the reddit minimalist types that are like "Then take a digital photo of it and throw it away". No humanbot, I'm not like that.

abalos 7y ago

This is similar to a realization I had the other day: for many people collecting things is less about the objects and more about the memories and nostalgia and associated with those objects. I have been having a lot of "identity" problems lately, and it occurred to me that very little of what I own has any substantial story about it nor does it say much about who I am as a person. The objects we collect exist as affirmations of the identity we've chosen for ourselves.

madengr 7y ago
I hate seeing all this garbage from Ikea when there are plenty sturdy “antiques” made from hard woods, as opposed to sawdust, glue, and cam locks. I have a some furniture hand made from my great-grandfather, grandfather, and father. I made a nice pair of speakers. This stuff will go to my kids. Much rather buy from the Amish furniture store and pay more, than the disposable shit from Ikea.
- mywittyname 7y ago
  Ikea has lots of products that are made of solid pine. If you use some wood glue during assembly, their stuff will stay together quite well. I have some stuff I bought 10+ years ago hold together after a half-dozen moves with some basic mods. I recently furnished my first "adult" house after years of having an Ikea apartment. I was pretty amazed at how up-market you have to go in order to exceed Ikea quality in commercial furniture. Lots of stuff sold in furniture stores is held together with hex-bolts and lock-tite anymore. Meaning you have to move up to Amish furniture if you want something higher quality. But that's like a 3-10x jump in price. I ended up spending big on couches & dining table, then used Ikea stuff in the bedrooms and offices. I feel like that's a mid-point of cost and quality.
  - asark 7y ago
    I've observed the price of furniture to run, lowest to highest, something like: Bad Ikea, Flat-Pack Furniture from Anywhere Else, Beat-Up Antiques, Good Ikea, Unfashionable but Good Antiques, Oversized Overstuffed NFM[1] crap, Actually Good New Furniture, Fashionable Antiques Not linear, there's a big jump for the last two categories. While the quality/longevity runs more like: Flat-Pack Furniture from Anywhere Else, Bad Ikea = Oversized Overstuffed NFM Crap, Good Ikea, Beat-Up Antiques, Unfasionable but Good Antiques = Fashionable Antiques = Actually Good New Furniture. Basically my conclusion's been I need to either buy good stuff (unfashionable antiques, occasionally good new stuff—fashionable antiques are out of my price range) or just get Ikea. The whole rest of the low-end market's at least as bad, and usually more expensive. Some of it pretends it's part of some non-existent middle tier of quality and is priced to match, making it the worst possible furniture to buy (oversized overstuffed NFM crap—it's also usually in a tasteless faux-antique style). I also think people who complain about Ikea's directions haven't assembled much shitty furniture from anywhere other than Ikea. It's all much worse. [1] Nebraska Furniture Mart, here used as a category.

buboard 7y ago

But if you never own them in the first place, they become forgettable. Sounds like future cities will have less of that

openoi 7y ago

I wonder to what extent this influences what is known as the "endowment effect" in economics. The particular chair I am sitting in and have for months, is it really a more valuable one because it helps me remember? Now before we are quick to agree on a 'yes' -- to what extent do memories hold us back? Your teak bookcase for example reminds you of a positive accomplishment, and its loss would untether you, generally speaking not wanting to intrude. Now imagine someone who objectively should change, perhaps because your industry is dying. Too many mementos, a sign of reluctance, resistance even to change? Yet change, wanted or not, is the one constant in our life. I realize the article is about renting to save up (-- how's that going to work, btw? After all, someone needs to charge on top of the cost of owning). But a home of one's own like in the last century, really another cradle of identity, or mistaken materialism?

Zenbit_UX 7y ago
I have to say, this whole trend screams of cognitive dissonance. "I can't afford to buy so I don't want to anyways..." sounds like one of the primary motivators. Renting expensive items? How's this different from leasing or renting a supercar you can't afford to show off to friends or clients? It's not. There's for sure some cases where this is a practical solution, like moving to another city for a year or two and getting some temporary furniture. But in most other cases in screams of sour grapes and businesses seeking to profit from people bad at math. Rent a coffee table for $50 a month for a few years and then be happy you don't have to move it when you change apartments? Run the math on those numbers and you'll realize you're likely a fool. Sure, if you're buying things like cheap ikea furniture it's not likely to appreciate in value but most real hardwood furniture is generational and something of an investment.
- openoi 7y ago
  Regarding the dissonance, the this all has the side "if I don't own it, I won't feel the pain of loss" to it. Survival strategy in a precarious situation.