5 ms·

I would agree with the complaint, but I'm surprised, and somewhat can't believe you don't have something similar "over there". (I don't know where over there is

I would agree with the complaint, but I'm surprised, and somewhat can't believe you don't have something similar "over there". (I don't know where over there is, of course.) The problem is that the credit system was not designed for society, it came out of a business need. In reality, you don't need a good (or any) credit score if you don't need a loan... but if you do need a loan, the person giving a loan wants to know if you're likely to pay them back. The credit agencies decided they were scummy enough to collect as much personal info as they could, and sell it to those companies so they could asses that risk... When you get a full credit report, its actually data about you and your accounts, the score is just the distilled version of that data to make it "easier". Finally, credit score is not always the last straw, depending on what kind of business you're working with. Many smaller companies might be willing to work with you regardless of your credit score, however, they might adjust the terms of the deal...

stingraycharles 7y ago
I’m from The Netherlands, so actually fairly close. I also know France doesn’t have a credit system as described, and wouldnt be surprised if that’s the case for a large part of the EU. I think in general it’s a matter of philosophy: so you think that loans are there to serve society (mortgage is a good example of a “necessary” loan), just like banks have a function to society. I personally can see both sides of the argument, but am I really not feeling like I’m missing out on something without it. Just checking your current financial status rather than historical seems sufficient to me.
- mpolichette 7y ago
  I see both sides also, I think its probably not good for society to be able to amass huge amounts of debt, I think the ability to get large mortgages is part of why housing prices are so astronomical. People are buying and selling at huge values, and maybe winning a little here and there on upswings in the market, but the banks win either way with their steady monthly payments.
- chimeracoder 7y ago
  > I’m from The Netherlands, so actually fairly close. I also know France doesn’t have a credit system as described, and wouldnt be surprised if that’s the case for a large part of the EU. The Netherlands has the Bureau Krediet Registratie, which is pretty similar to the credit ratings in the US. (Arguably, the credit rating system in the US is slightly more forgiving than the BKR, but that's a separate matter - the Netherlands definitely does have this system). France is actually the outlier for not having one - Germany and Spain both do, for example, as does the UK. And of course Canada, the US, and Australia have similar systems as well.
  - vincentmarle 7y ago
    The difference is that the BKR acts more like a blacklist: if you never have taken any loans you will never have a bad rating, whereas in the US you need to actively obtain and manage your credit to get a good rating.
    - chimeracoder 7y ago
      > The difference is that the BKR acts more like a blacklist: if you never have taken any loans you will never have a bad rating This is how credit ratings in the US work as well.
      - snappieT 7y ago
        This is not true. For example, when I first moved to the US, I was unable to get a "real" credit card, much less a car or home loan. I was effectively required to get a secured credit card to demonstrate my "ability" to repay "debt". After doing this for some time, I was able to get a normal credit card, with a far higher limit and no security. It's a little farcical really, that my ability to pay back a few hundred dollars monthly granted me access to a credit line far in excess of my monthly income.
        chimeracoder 7y ago
        > This is not true. For example, when I first moved to the US, I was unable to get a "real" credit card, much less a car or home loan. Yes, that's not because you had a bad credit score, but because lenders in the US are more conservative and are generally unwilling to lend money to a person who doesn't have a good credit score. This applies especially to people who aren't citizens, even if they have legal residence and work authorization. You didn't have a good credit score - or any score at all. That doesn't mean you had a bad rating. If you'd had a bad score, it would have been much worse that what you describe. The original statement was that "if you have never taken any loans, you will never have a bad rating". This is true in both the Netherlands and the US (barring cases of fraud and identity theft, which occur in both countries).

stingraycharles 7y ago

I’m from The Netherlands, so actually fairly close. I also know France doesn’t have a credit system as described, and wouldnt be surprised if that’s the case for a large part of the EU. I think in general it’s a matter of philosophy: so you think that loans are there to serve society (mortgage is a good example of a “necessary” loan), just like banks have a function to society. I personally can see both sides of the argument, but am I really not feeling like I’m missing out on something without it. Just checking your current financial status rather than historical seems sufficient to me.

mpolichette 7y ago
I see both sides also, I think its probably not good for society to be able to amass huge amounts of debt, I think the ability to get large mortgages is part of why housing prices are so astronomical. People are buying and selling at huge values, and maybe winning a little here and there on upswings in the market, but the banks win either way with their steady monthly payments.
chimeracoder 7y ago
> I’m from The Netherlands, so actually fairly close. I also know France doesn’t have a credit system as described, and wouldnt be surprised if that’s the case for a large part of the EU. The Netherlands has the Bureau Krediet Registratie, which is pretty similar to the credit ratings in the US. (Arguably, the credit rating system in the US is slightly more forgiving than the BKR, but that's a separate matter - the Netherlands definitely does have this system). France is actually the outlier for not having one - Germany and Spain both do, for example, as does the UK. And of course Canada, the US, and Australia have similar systems as well.
- vincentmarle 7y ago
  The difference is that the BKR acts more like a blacklist: if you never have taken any loans you will never have a bad rating, whereas in the US you need to actively obtain and manage your credit to get a good rating.
  - chimeracoder 7y ago
    > The difference is that the BKR acts more like a blacklist: if you never have taken any loans you will never have a bad rating This is how credit ratings in the US work as well.
    - snappieT 7y ago
      This is not true. For example, when I first moved to the US, I was unable to get a "real" credit card, much less a car or home loan. I was effectively required to get a secured credit card to demonstrate my "ability" to repay "debt". After doing this for some time, I was able to get a normal credit card, with a far higher limit and no security. It's a little farcical really, that my ability to pay back a few hundred dollars monthly granted me access to a credit line far in excess of my monthly income.
      - chimeracoder 7y ago
        > This is not true. For example, when I first moved to the US, I was unable to get a "real" credit card, much less a car or home loan. Yes, that's not because you had a bad credit score, but because lenders in the US are more conservative and are generally unwilling to lend money to a person who doesn't have a good credit score. This applies especially to people who aren't citizens, even if they have legal residence and work authorization. You didn't have a good credit score - or any score at all. That doesn't mean you had a bad rating. If you'd had a bad score, it would have been much worse that what you describe. The original statement was that "if you have never taken any loans, you will never have a bad rating". This is true in both the Netherlands and the US (barring cases of fraud and identity theft, which occur in both countries).